From Women to Kids - AP Indicted on Child Abuse

[8893]

When I wrote that hitting your child is not okay under any circumstances, I meant striking. As in "I hit my kid."

"A little smack on the tush" is not that. Everyone knows that. And everyone knows that's not remotely in the same solar system as what AP did.

I guess I'm lucky to have all girls, in that even a little is not okay. Ever. Makes it easier for me than deciding where to draw the line. Seeing as hitting would only occur to me when I'm really mad myself, I'm thinking that wouldn't be the best time for me to be making that call.

 

[Kitaman]

I harbor no ill will towards my parents or grandparents and I guarantee you it taught me what was and was not acceptable behavior. And pretty much everybody I know went thru the same thing. I'm not trying to "justify" anything. It just is what it is.

My mother and father would have been imprisoned and my brother and I would have been in the system. Belts, electric cords, switches (tree branch), hands, even hangers. Unfortunately this was pretty common among my friends as well as the accompanying welts. Funny but time out was always after the whipping, never before.

I will say boys got it whereby the girls didn't so much back in the day. I know now that much of the punishment was abuse or worse when alcohol was involved. And yes parent's frustration (probably unrelated to the crime) always made it worse or longer. Some kids can push your buttons and if you are not in a good space, they become the target/outlet for your frustration.

I will say I don't think it was that effective other than making us change our strategy (i.e. trying better to not get caught).

Its certainly a new day and even I was much more softer in disciplining my kids (both girls). I would never use an object, but I never had a problem with my girls. I can't say how I would have disciplined a boy.

As for AP I can not pass judgement and since this is no longer acceptable, perhaps parental counseling, like discipline strategies, or understanding when to discipline (e.g. not when emotional) is the solution for him.

 

[intlzncster]

Dogs. Women. Kids.

Any guesses on what player will be busted for cat juggling?

Little known fact. That was actually side entertainment at Vick family gatherings.

 

[jleves]

Anyone else find it odd that we can ban people for making racist remarks but not for supporting child abuse? Seems to me that kind of thought is the first thing you want to stop in society.

 

[David 76]

For the record, I think that what AP did was wrong. I was merely responding to the those that say that ALL forms of physical discipline, not matter what situation, no matter what circumstance, is unacceptable.

Your perception of the studies are all wrong. Most places allow corporal punishment. CT does. The studies simply say it is less effective. But physical discipline is provided like you did it. A parent, in control of their emotions, doing enough to send a message. Welts and bleeding are not discipline.
I was hit as a kid and I don't feel I was abused. But I've raised 4 respectful kids without a hitting and 3 of them were very damaged foster kids who had serious behavioral/emotional problems.

Not to you but to warrior & CT. Child abuse is against the law and by definition, not a personal matter. Kids die and are scarred all the time. Just like you can't beat your wife, no matter how much "discipline" she needs, you can't beat your kid. But these cases are not usually dealt with in court. Parents are provided services to improve. Only in pretty extreme cases (not AP) do these go to court, and then it is to terminate parental rights.

Working with kids my whole life, it always amazes me. If AP had done this to a dog, people would totally freak out and demonstrations and petitions would be everywhere. But kids, they are just property. We should all mind our business.
Crazy!

 

[Rocktheworld]

Your perception of the studies are all wrong. Most places allow corporal punishment. CT does. The studies simply say it is less effective. But physical discipline is provided like you did it. A parent, in control of their emotions, doing enough to send a message. Welts and bleeding are not discipline.
I was hit as a kid and I don't feel I was abused. But I've raised 4 respectful kids without a hitting and 3 of them were very damaged foster kids who had serious behavioral/emotional problems.

Not to you but to warrior & CT. Child abuse is against the law and by definition, not a personal matter. Kids die and are scarred all the time. Just like you can't beat your wife, no matter how much "discipline" she needs, you can't beat your kid. But these cases are not usually dealt with in court. Parents are provided services to improve. Only in pretty extreme cases (not AP) do these go to court, and then it is to terminate parental rights.

Working with kids my whole life, it always amazes me. If AP had done this to a dog, people would totally freak out and demonstrations and petitions would be everywhere. But kids, they are just property. We should all mind our business.
Crazy!

Well there's something about dogs in our culture lol consider the saddest scene in I Am Legend is the dog dying. America does have some odd obsession with dogs.

But besides that, I get that you don't feel that you were abused for having received some form of physical punishment as a child, but ultimately the question remains (and I have yet to have been given a good answer): is physical punishment SUFFICIENT and NECESSARY to teach a child how to behave in a socially acceptable manner? If you concede it is not necessary (as I assert), then there is no need for it. There are other methods that have no risk of misuse that result in physical and/or emotional scarring.

 

[David 76]

NO! It is not necessary.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Glad you acknowledge that. There are others here who are having difficulty shifting in to the 21st century.

 

[Deleted at users request]

We have huge cultural differences and I'm going to leave it at that.

 

[Deleted at users request]

All I'm going to say is there is certain things kids who are physically disciplined just won't do compared to those who just get timeouts and have no fear of doing anything they want. Cause they were raised as if they couldn't be touched.

 

[CallMeBruce]

All I'm going to say is there is certain things kids who are physically disciplined just won't do compared to those who just get timeouts and have no fear of doing anything they want. Cause they were raised as if they couldn't be touched.

I should have known that this topic would be full of Neanderthals who want their rights to take their frustrations and inadequacies out on defenseless children protected.

 

[Leebo]

All I'm going to say is there is certain things kids who are physically disciplined just won't do compared to those who just get timeouts and have no fear of doing anything they want. Cause they were raised as if they couldn't be touched.

No one is arguing that beating kids won't raise them to fear you. Obviously. It can be very effective at making them fear any tiny misstep.

 

[8893]

Somewhat related, somewhat not, I watched Philomena last night at the insistence of my wife and a good friend whose judgment I trust. It brought to mind a few thoughts in connection with this discussion:

• It reminded me that the psychological drama that girls go through is usually far worse than the physical drama boys endure.
  
  
• It also reminded me that the some of the nuns (and other teachers) who taught me in elementary school were as physical as my parents.
  
  
• And it helped show how one who is subject to abuse can--even after recognizing the abuse--still see it at least in part as an act of love.

I think that last part is particularly important if it helps lead to forgiveness and understanding, rather than hate (as in the movie). But if it is used to justify the victim's infliction of the same treatment on others, it is just repeating the cycle.

Coincidentally, the New Haven Register's James Walker has just posted a very thoughtful piece describing his own journey through that cycle:

http://www.nhregister.com/opinion/20140913/james-walker-my-journey-out-of-domestic-violence

FWIW, I had no idea what Philomena was about and never would have watched it otherwise, but I am glad that I did. It was surprisingly excellent imo, and Dench was deservedly nominated for her performance.

 

[David 76]

Rock, I have never hit any of my kids. I don't beleve in it. I don't see how anyone could hit their 4 year old like AP did.
Warrior, you may know some spoiled kids who grew up without getting beaten, but I know a lot of beaten kids who became criminals , abusers or both.

 

[Deleted at users request]

I should have known that this topic would be full of Neanderthals who want their rights to take their frustrations and inadequacies out on defenseless children protected.

You said this as if AP just hit his sons for fun which is not the case. Like I said there are huge cultural differences with raising children between whites and blacks. That's all.

 

[GlastonTim]

The story was the child pushed the other child off the games and was using bad words too as a 4 year old. And 4 is around the age you start to get beatings because you are starting to be aware of what is going on but at the same time you are still in the "the world revolves around you stage". So they feel like they can do anything they want. That's when beatings and teaching respect comes in to play. Yes you might be doing things because you are scared to get best again but you will still learn how to do those things. Therefore being raised to act right so when you grow up you do know how to do those things when you want to.

How old are you?

 

[Walker11]

You said this as if AP just hit his sons for fun which is not the case. Like I said there are huge cultural differences with raising children between whites and blacks. That's all.

Its totally cultural. Loads of people, including many NFL players have come out in defense of Peterson. It could be somewhat of a white/black issue but I think its more of a North/South thing. But just because something is a part of a culture doesn't make it right and there needs to be an attempt to educate IMO. Maybe this issue coming to light can be beneficial.

 

[Deleted at users request]

How old are you?

Old enough to already have taken psychology classes in college that teaches the different stages of life.

 

[Deleted at users request]

Its totally cultural. Loads of people, including many NFL players have come out in defense of Peterson. It could be somewhat of a white/black issue but I think its more of a North/South thing. But just because something is a part of a culture doesn't make it right and there needs to be an attempt to educate IMO. Maybe this issue coming to light can be beneficial.

It's not a north south things, it's a black white thing. I also don't think it's right to have babies on leashes. Like I said I don't think it's right to tell kids how to raise their kids. If a parent was just physically busing their child out of anger for no reason then yeah, that's a problem and shouldn't be happening. But if they do it as a form of discipline to teach them a lesson then I see no problem. In this specific situation AP got carried away but it was a mistake that he shouldn't have his visitation taken away for. That's just stupid. His heart is totally in the right place which is why he's so voluntarily going through the process.

 

[tzznandrew]

His heart is totally in the right place which is why he's so voluntarily going through the process.

And you know his heart? You looked into his eyes when he bloodied his child?

The reality is that no one knows what he was thinking. It is irrelevant. He beat his kid bloody and his child is terrified of him. He was beaten enough that other people decided to call authorities.

Great parenting there...

 

[David 76]

It is a white/black thing and maybe a blue collar/ white collar thing. But not entirely.It is cultural. Maybe due to the extreme dangers black kids faced (continue to face) if they misbehaved in a white culture, maybe as a displacement of the brutal treatment slaves received and in turn, dispensed to their kids, But it is misguided. No matter what your culture tells you about treating women, you must follow US laws. Same with this.
Don't necessarily think AP is a monster, but he does need to learn a different style of discipline. Even with good, sincere intentions, he will not be allowed to do this. His parental visitation won't get cut off. He will be given the chance to change.

 

[Deleted at users request]

It is a white/black thing and maybe a blue collar/ white collar thing. But not entirely.It is cultural. Maybe due to the extreme dangers black kids faced (continue to face) if they misbehaved in a white culture, maybe as a displacement of the brutal treatment slaves received and in turn, dispensed to their kids, But it is misguided. No matter what your culture tells you about treating women, you must follow US laws. Same with this.
Don't necessarily think AP is a monster, but he does need to learn a different style of discipline. Even with good, sincere intentions, he will not be allowed to do this. His parental visitation won't get cut off. He will be given the chance to change.

Alright I'll play your physical discipline is never the answer game. Let's say the child does the same thing. Knocks his brother off the game and uses foul words in the process. What should the parent then do?

 

[Deleted at users request]

And you know his heart? You looked into his eyes when he bloodied his child?

The reality is that no one knows what he was thinking. It is irrelevant. He beat his kid bloody and his child is terrified of him. He was beaten enough that other people decided to call authorities.

Great parenting there...

Seeing the fact that it's his child and in every report he is fully cooperating and owning what he did (even when skyping with the mother when the child was first telling her with AP right there) he fully thought what he was doing was a way of discipline to teach his son a lesson on how to respect.

 

[Fishy]

Alright I'll play your physical discipline is never the answer game. Let's say the child does the same thing. Knocks his brother off the game and uses foul words in the process. What should the parent then do?

How about something other than whipping him with a tree branch until he's bleeding from a half-dozen places?

You clearly don't have kids and don't seem to have much idea what you're talking about, but they're generally not that hard to discipline - someone who whips a four-year old like that is doing it because they like it.

AP is a sick f---.

 

[Rocktheworld]

You said this as if AP just hit his sons for fun which is not the case. Like I said there are huge cultural differences with raising children between whites and blacks. That's all.

Culture does not give someone free reign to do whatever they want. Ascribing to a given culture doesn't automatically make something acceptable. There are cultures in Africa where young girls, as they enter puberty, have their breasts burned and deformed with hot presses. It runs so deep in this culture, it is the mothers who do this to their own daughters. Does their being of a different culture make it in any way acceptable? I can't believe you, man.

 

[Rocktheworld]

he fully thought what he was doing was a way of discipline to teach his son a lesson on how to respect.

WELL HE WAS IGNORANT AND WRONG.

 

[UConn990411]

This isn't a black vs. white thing - it's a stupid/uneducated vs. non-stupid/educated thing.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Old enough to already have taken psychology classes in college that teaches the different stages of life.

Please, go take a developmental psychology class and assert that physically disciplining children is completely acceptable. You'll be set straight right quick.

 

[Deleted at users request]

Just play along with the situation for a second. You all are great fathers who know how to discipline right? What do you do next to respond?

 

[Deleted at users request]

Please, go take a developmental psychology class and assert that physically disciplining children is completely acceptable. You'll be set straight right quick.

Physically discipline kids has nothing to do with anything. You are not permanently scarred for life and damaged in the head because your parents decided to physically discipline you as a child.