From Women to Kids - AP Indicted on Child Abuse

[UConniki]

My main point is don't try to tell a man who is being a great provider for his family how to discipline his kids. Keyword: DISCIPLINE.

Discipline in your world = child abuse to most of us and thankfully you and people like you are in the minority on this topic ! What exactly does money have to do with this conversation (great provider) ? So if your an NFL player you get to do what ever you want, got it .

 

[8893]

Wow, hadn't heard this part:

"Last year, Peterson's other son died after allegedly being abused by another man.

Authorities in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, found the 2-year-old boy unresponsive, and later determined he'd suffered injuries to his head consistent with abuse."

 

[Leebo]

Wow, hadn't heard this part:

"Last year, Peterson's other son died after allegedly being abused by another man.

Authorities in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, found the 2-year-old boy unresponsive, and later determined he'd suffered injuries to his head consistent with abuse."

Hey, we can't pass judgment on how people discipline kids!

 

[Robertelamin]

I doubt this ever sees the inside of a courtroom. It clearly looks like abuse to me but not to many others and I think using a switch is more accepted in the south/Texas. I bet he gets a plea deal and his punishment will be like taking parenting classes and any visits by the child will be supervised.

 

[bellairehusky]

"So let's ignore your intellectual suicide and fallacies of willful ignorance and denigrating of evidence which is replaced by your anecdotal evidence.

Is physically beating a child sufficient and necessary for them to learn how to conduct themselves in a socially appropriate manner?"

"beating children
properly"]

This is why I hate posting on these topics rationalizing a different viewpoint...people twisting words so that they can make some some extreme contradictory point. "Scientific Evidence?" How many planets did we have when you grew up? Stress causes ulcers? The universe is static? The earth is flat? Geocentric universe? Sugar makes kids hyperactive? Yeah, lots of scientific studies supporting those at some time.

You all use the word "beating" which has a negative connotation. But I am not going to get into semantics or try to rationalize or explain a POV on a divergent topic. I don't think you or I will change the other's view on physical discipline no matter how much we say. I am just giving a personal opinion. But, I will leave with an actual "anecdote" which Leebo can mischaracterize and/or belittle and Rocktheword can dismiss, but I will at least answer your question:

- We are out at dinner at a friends house a few months ago. My six year old son sees that they have a small dog and proceeds to pick up the dog by the belly. My concerned buddy's wife runs over and asks my son to please not handle or pick up the dog and she explains to him that the breed of dog cannot be picked up that way or else it will get injured. I also reiterate to my son not to pick up the dog again - I recall that I said that we are guests and we have to respect the wishes of those that lived there. A few minutes later my 8 yo comes up to me and says that his brother is picking up the dog again. I seek him out and once again ask ask him to please not pick up the dog again. I reiterated that the dog could get hurt and Mrs. _____ would be extremely upset. Just a few minutes later, I go and check up on him (because I know him and I know how he is) and spot him in a corner looking around and then seemingly thinking that he is not being watched, proceeds to pick the dog up again. I hustled over there and pulled him aside and told him that he had been asked to not do that - I then spanked him twice on his tush - enough for him to feel a sting. I saw in his eyes - he knows exactly what he did wrong, why he got spanked. I know he correlated the spanking to his deliberate bad action. He did not go near the dog again that evening.

So yes, I do believe that physical punishment (not beating) when done properly and with purpose was necessary for my child to conduct himself in a socially appropriate manner that evening...belittle away!

 

[Rocktheworld]

Only attempt to use one possible method of achieving a desired effect
It is successful
Therefore it is necessary

Excellent logic

 

[tzznandrew]

This is why I hate posting on these topics rationalizing a different viewpoint...people twisting words so that they can make some some extreme contradictory point. "Scientific Evidence?" How many planets did we have when you grew up? Stress causes ulcers? The universe is static? The earth is flat? Geocentric universe? Sugar makes kids hyperactive? Yeah, lots of scientific studies supporting those at some time.

You all use the word "beating" which has a negative connotation. But I am not going to get into semantics or try to rationalize or explain a POV on a divergent topic. I don't think you or I will change the other's view on physical discipline no matter how much we say. I am just giving a personal opinion. But, I will leave with an actual "anecdote" which Leebo can mischaracterize and/or belittle and Rocktheword can dismiss, but I will at least answer your question:

- We are out at dinner at a friends house a few months ago. My six year old son sees that they have a small dog and proceeds to pick up the dog by the belly. My concerned buddy's wife runs over and asks my son to please not handle or pick up the dog and she explains to him that the breed of dog cannot be picked up that way or else it will get injured. I also reiterate to my son not to pick up the dog again - I recall that I said that we are guests and we have to respect the wishes of those that lived there. A few minutes later my 8 yo comes up to me and says that his brother is picking up the dog again. I seek him out and once again ask ask him to please not pick up the dog again. I reiterated that the dog could get hurt and Mrs. _____ would be extremely upset. Just a few minutes later, I go and check up on him (because I know him and I know how he is) and spot him in a corner looking around and then seemingly thinking that he is not being watched, proceeds to pick the dog up again. I hustled over there and pulled him aside and told him that he had been asked to not do that - I then spanked him twice on his tush - enough for him to feel a sting. I saw in his eyes - he knows exactly what he did wrong, why he got spanked. I know he correlated the spanking to his deliberate bad action. He did not go near the dog again that evening.

So yes, I do believe that physical punishment (not beating) when done properly and with purpose was necessary for my child to conduct himself in a socially appropriate manner that evening...belittle away!

Wait, so you didn't grab a switch and beat him bloody?!? Would that have been acceptable?

If not, I'm not sure what your disagreement is here. Some disagree with a spanking...but I'm not sure that discussion is at all relevant to what Peterson did.

 

[bellairehusky]

Only attempt to use one possible method of achieving a desired effect
It is successful
Therefore it is necessary

Excellent logic

I bow down to your all knowing greatness and logic.

See, I can do it too! thanks for proving my point.

 

[Leebo]

It's much easier to understand why people are defending Peterson when you realize that they are often defending themselves by proxy.

I would like to see those scientific studies about the Earth being flat though, if you don't mind. The whole angle of that part of your rant is funny, since the reason science changes is because it's improving our knowledge base. Pluto didn't disappear, our understanding of it improved.

 

[bellairehusky]

Wait, so you didn't grab a switch and beat him bloody?!? Would that have been acceptable?

If not, I'm not sure what your disagreement is here. Some disagree with a spanking...but I'm not sure that discussion is at all relevant to what Peterson did.

For the record, I think that what AP did was wrong. I was merely responding to the those that say that ALL forms of physical discipline, not matter what situation, no matter what circumstance, is unacceptable.

 

[Rocktheworld]

I bow down to your all knowing greatness and logic.

See, I can do it too! thanks for proving my point.

Pointing out your absence of logic is not an assertion that I am all knowing. Speaking of proving someone's point, completely illogical, irrelevant, and deflective response.

 

[Leebo]

For the record, I think that what AP did was wrong. I was merely responding to the those that say that ALL forms of physical discipline, not matter what situation, no matter what circumstance, is unacceptable.

I think it's easier to say "Yeah, why don't we not hit kids" as a society, than try to parse this line of exactly how much hitting is the "right" amount of hitting.

If you open the door to every family getting to decide that line for themselves, then you have to accept what people like AP did.

 

[bellairehusky]

Pointing out your absence of logic is not an assertion that I am all knowing. Speaking of proving someone's point, completely illogical, irrelevant, and deflective response.

You're right. But I got too tired of typing - I'm not big into getting into this types of discussions online - its much easier to reach for facetiousness or ad hominem. It's much better discussed over food and drink.

EDIT: And I know my son, you can take away his pokemon cards, video games, stuff he loves to do...for some reason he responds to a little smack on the tush.

 

[bellairehusky]

I think it's easier to say "Yeah, why don't we not hit kids" as a society, than try to parse this line of exactly how much hitting is the "right" amount of hitting.

If you open the door to every family getting to decide that line for themselves, then you have to accept what people like AP did.

Agree, its nice to have everything black or white and not gray but like most things there is always gray. I guess its up to judge and jury to decide now.

 

[Leebo]

In this case, there's white and gray. It's quite easy to stay on the white side.

AP describes the result of his action as "unintentional." Is he acknowledging that something "wrong" happened? Did he mean to go lighter on him? There's an easy solution to that.

 

[8893]

When I wrote that hitting your child is not okay under any circumstances, I meant striking. As in "I hit my kid."

"A little smack on the tush" is not that. Everyone knows that. And everyone knows that's not remotely in the same solar system as what AP did.

I guess I'm lucky to have all girls, in that even a little is not okay. Ever. Makes it easier for me than deciding where to draw the line. Seeing as hitting would only occur to me when I'm really mad myself, I'm thinking that wouldn't be the best time for me to be making that call.

 

[Kitaman]

I harbor no ill will towards my parents or grandparents and I guarantee you it taught me what was and was not acceptable behavior. And pretty much everybody I know went thru the same thing. I'm not trying to "justify" anything. It just is what it is.

My mother and father would have been imprisoned and my brother and I would have been in the system. Belts, electric cords, switches (tree branch), hands, even hangers. Unfortunately this was pretty common among my friends as well as the accompanying welts. Funny but time out was always after the whipping, never before.

I will say boys got it whereby the girls didn't so much back in the day. I know now that much of the punishment was abuse or worse when alcohol was involved. And yes parent's frustration (probably unrelated to the crime) always made it worse or longer. Some kids can push your buttons and if you are not in a good space, they become the target/outlet for your frustration.

I will say I don't think it was that effective other than making us change our strategy (i.e. trying better to not get caught).

Its certainly a new day and even I was much more softer in disciplining my kids (both girls). I would never use an object, but I never had a problem with my girls. I can't say how I would have disciplined a boy.

As for AP I can not pass judgement and since this is no longer acceptable, perhaps parental counseling, like discipline strategies, or understanding when to discipline (e.g. not when emotional) is the solution for him.

 

[intlzncster]

Dogs. Women. Kids.

Any guesses on what player will be busted for cat juggling?

Little known fact. That was actually side entertainment at Vick family gatherings.

 

[jleves]

Anyone else find it odd that we can ban people for making racist remarks but not for supporting child abuse? Seems to me that kind of thought is the first thing you want to stop in society.

 

[David 76]

For the record, I think that what AP did was wrong. I was merely responding to the those that say that ALL forms of physical discipline, not matter what situation, no matter what circumstance, is unacceptable.

Your perception of the studies are all wrong. Most places allow corporal punishment. CT does. The studies simply say it is less effective. But physical discipline is provided like you did it. A parent, in control of their emotions, doing enough to send a message. Welts and bleeding are not discipline.
I was hit as a kid and I don't feel I was abused. But I've raised 4 respectful kids without a hitting and 3 of them were very damaged foster kids who had serious behavioral/emotional problems.

Not to you but to warrior & CT. Child abuse is against the law and by definition, not a personal matter. Kids die and are scarred all the time. Just like you can't beat your wife, no matter how much "discipline" she needs, you can't beat your kid. But these cases are not usually dealt with in court. Parents are provided services to improve. Only in pretty extreme cases (not AP) do these go to court, and then it is to terminate parental rights.

Working with kids my whole life, it always amazes me. If AP had done this to a dog, people would totally freak out and demonstrations and petitions would be everywhere. But kids, they are just property. We should all mind our business.
Crazy!

 

[Rocktheworld]

Your perception of the studies are all wrong. Most places allow corporal punishment. CT does. The studies simply say it is less effective. But physical discipline is provided like you did it. A parent, in control of their emotions, doing enough to send a message. Welts and bleeding are not discipline.
I was hit as a kid and I don't feel I was abused. But I've raised 4 respectful kids without a hitting and 3 of them were very damaged foster kids who had serious behavioral/emotional problems.

Not to you but to warrior & CT. Child abuse is against the law and by definition, not a personal matter. Kids die and are scarred all the time. Just like you can't beat your wife, no matter how much "discipline" she needs, you can't beat your kid. But these cases are not usually dealt with in court. Parents are provided services to improve. Only in pretty extreme cases (not AP) do these go to court, and then it is to terminate parental rights.

Working with kids my whole life, it always amazes me. If AP had done this to a dog, people would totally freak out and demonstrations and petitions would be everywhere. But kids, they are just property. We should all mind our business.
Crazy!

Well there's something about dogs in our culture lol consider the saddest scene in I Am Legend is the dog dying. America does have some odd obsession with dogs.

But besides that, I get that you don't feel that you were abused for having received some form of physical punishment as a child, but ultimately the question remains (and I have yet to have been given a good answer): is physical punishment SUFFICIENT and NECESSARY to teach a child how to behave in a socially acceptable manner? If you concede it is not necessary (as I assert), then there is no need for it. There are other methods that have no risk of misuse that result in physical and/or emotional scarring.

 

[David 76]

NO! It is not necessary.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Glad you acknowledge that. There are others here who are having difficulty shifting in to the 21st century.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

We have huge cultural differences and I'm going to leave it at that.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

All I'm going to say is there is certain things kids who are physically disciplined just won't do compared to those who just get timeouts and have no fear of doing anything they want. Cause they were raised as if they couldn't be touched.