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intlzncster

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Now this morning you have Tony Dungy throwing cold water over all those fans that bring up Spygate.

Dungy admitted to stealing signals, said it wasn't illegal, and LB Gary Brackett says they stole the signals from film!!

Not only does Deep have nothing on Deflategate, but there's nothing on Spygate now either.

Eh, non-salty coaches have admitted this for a long time. Bill Cowher:

"We didn’t lose the game because of any Spygate, because of them having any additional things. I think if they’re guilty of anything, they’re guilty of arrogance, because they were told not to do something. But it was something that everybody does. The only thing they got caught [was] doing it with a camera. We had people that always tried to steal signals. Stealing someone’s signals was a part of the game, and everybody attempted to do that."
 
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I'll try to reply as simply as I can. Even if what you say is true, and I don't concede that....when they got rid of those balls in the 2nd half, the Pats won 28-0. So, had no impact on the game. Just like Calhoun breaking rules on Miles never had an impact on a game at UConn.

So there's strike one. Now, show me all the other "blatant" ways the Patriots cheated and it gave them an advantage in an actual game. Your partner in crime, August, stated a premise that the Pats cheated MORE. I'm waiting for evidence, and evidence of how it impacted anything. Because MY whole premise, if you guys could contain yourselves, is that what Calhoun did also had no impact on any games, yet it broke rules. Maybe neither of you actually went to UConn, so you're not smart enough to figure that out.

The fact they won (or lost) doesn't matter. The balls were deflated below league minimums. Coincidentally, some guy named The Deflator was somehow "involved". I'm not making this up.
 

intlzncster

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The fact they won (or lost) doesn't matter. The balls were deflated below league minimums by the temperature. Coincidentally, some guy named The Deflator was somehow "involved". I'm not making this up.

FTFY. As proven by MIT, Carnegie Mellon, and many many more scientists. Same way the Steelers balls were 'deflated' against the Giants this year. Where was the outcry?

I doubt you'll read this, as you don't appear interested in seeking any truth, but this says it better than anyone on this thread:

As time has allowed more serious analysis to come in, the results have been an overwhelming destruction of the conclusions of Wells, Exponent and the consulting work of Princeton professor Daniel Marlow.

It's been from all directions: the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (multiple studies), Carnegie Mellon University, the University of Chicago, Boston College, the University of Nebraska, the University of Illinois, the University of New Hampshire, Bowdoin College, Rockefeller University, where a Nobel Prize winner couldn't have lampooned it more viciously, and so on and so on.

Then there were unaffiliated retired scientists, climate experts, professional labs, even the conservative think tank American Enterprise Institute, which crushed the science of Wells' report. A fourth-grader in Sacramento discredited it for her school science fair.

And these are just some of the ones that received media attention.


About the only counter argument is all these people must all be Patriots fans (they aren't). Even if they all were, they'd be opening themselves up to scientific ridicule for their conclusions from other scientists who aren't Patriots fans.

Only no one is ridiculing them. No one is criticizing these critics. It doesn't appear anyone is fighting back.

Maybe there is a professor or study out there that, with the currently available information, defends Exponent, Wells and the NFL, but there aren't any readily found on the Internet or in scientific journals. They certainly aren't making themselves easy to find.

If every smart scientist who studied this case (and isn't affiliated with the league) says nothing happened, then how long does everyone keep saying something did?

The most damning rebuke is from Dr. John Leonard, one of numerous professors at MIT who have tackled this case. In a popular YouTube video, the Philadelphia Eagles fan doesn't just blast Exponent's conclusions but shows the flawed methodology that failed to account for how atmospheric pressure impacted the footballs that were measured at halftime. He basically calls them hacks, and when he fixes their mistake, he essentially closes the argument out. In the months-old video he asks Exponent to explain itself. To date, it hasn't. Apparently no one has disagreed with Leonard's findings.

"The Colts' balls were as much out of range as the Patriots' balls," Leonard told a class on the deflate-gate at UNH, according to the Boston Globe. "It's pretty much an open-and-shut case, but somehow [commissioner Roger] Goodell never understood it, and still doesn't to this day."
 
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August_West

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Patriots minion dressed up in NFL films garb.

"Nothing to see here folks, everyone does it"
 

intlzncster

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Patriots minion dressed up in NFL films garb.

"Nothing to see here folks, everyone does it"

Who said they didn't film from the end zone? Everybody knows they did. They (and all other teams--of which some seven were known to do it) were told to cut it out the year before. Belichick was too arrogant about it and paid a stiff price for that.

No big deal. As most unbiased observers admit.
 
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FTFY. As proven by MIT, Carnegie Mellon, and many many more scientists. Same way the Steelers balls were 'deflated' against the Giants this year. Where was the outcry?

I doubt you'll read this, as you don't appear interested in facts, but this says it better than anyone on this thread:

As time has allowed more serious analysis to come in, the results have been an overwhelming destruction of the conclusions of Wells, Exponent and the consulting work of Princeton professor Daniel Marlow.

It's been from all directions: the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (multiple studies), Carnegie Mellon University, the University of Chicago, Boston College, the University of Nebraska, the University of Illinois, the University of New Hampshire, Bowdoin College, Rockefeller University, where a Nobel Prize winner couldn't have lampooned it more viciously, and so on and so on.

Then there were unaffiliated retired scientists, climate experts, professional labs, even the conservative think tank American Enterprise Institute, which crushed the science of Wells' report. A fourth-grader in Sacramento discredited it for her school science fair.

And these are just some of the ones that received media attention.


About the only counter argument is all these people must all be Patriots fans (they aren't). Even if they all were, they'd be opening themselves up to scientific ridicule for their conclusions from other scientists who aren't Patriots fans.

Only no one is ridiculing them. No one is criticizing these critics. It doesn't appear anyone is fighting back.

Maybe there is a professor or study out there that, with the currently available information, defends Exponent, Wells and the NFL, but there aren't any readily found on the Internet or in scientific journals. They certainly aren't making themselves easy to find.

If every smart scientist who studied this case (and isn't affiliated with the league) says nothing happened, then how long does everyone keep saying something did?

The most damning rebuke is from Dr. John Leonard, one of numerous professors at MIT who have tackled this case. In a popular YouTube video, the Philadelphia Eagles fan doesn't just blast Exponent's conclusions but shows the flawed methodology that failed to account for how atmospheric pressure impacted the footballs that were measured at halftime. He basically calls them hacks, and when he fixes their mistake, he essentially closes the argument out. In the months-old video he asks Exponent to explain itself. To date, it hasn't. Apparently no one has disagreed with Leonard's findings.

"The Colts' balls were as much out of range as the Patriots' balls," Leonard told a class on the deflate-gate at UNH, according to the Boston Globe. "It's pretty much an open-and-shut case, but somehow [commissioner Roger] Goodell never understood it, and still doesn't to this day."

Wow. Hard to believe a multi-billion dollar industry would just punish a team unfairly like that. They must just have had a grudge! They must just not like the Patriots!

I've said this before, I'll say it again. If Brady came out the week this all took place and said "Hey. Every QB prefers the footballs a certain way. These guys know that I prefer them towards the lower end of the allowed range. If it dropped below, by accident, by weather, by error...that's on me. I'll take the fine and I'll be more careful with the process from our end heading forward." This all would be 100% gone. Nope. He refused to admit being part of everything....and smashed his phone.
 
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The fact they won (or lost) doesn't matter. The balls were deflated below league minimums. Coincidentally, some guy named The Deflator was somehow "involved". I'm not making this up.
You are COMPLETELY ignoring the whole point of my argument w Mr. August. I was merely trying to draw the comparison that if you think the Patriots cheated because they broke the rules, even though nothing they did had any impact on any game they played, then you must think UConn cheated under Calhoun with the whole Nate Miles incident as well, because rules were also broken in that matter, even though it never impacted any game they ever played. Mr. August doesn't seem to understand this.....you inserted yourself and chose to ignore the entire discussion. It's quite hilarious, this whole thing. Just come out and say you hate the Patriots, and leave it at that. Just like there are a lot of people that hate UConn and think that Calhoun is a cheater. No big deal.
 

intlzncster

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Wow. Hard to believe a multi-billion dollar industry would just punish a team unfairly like that. They must just have had a grudge! They must just not like the Patriots!

Uh dude, that multimillion dollar organization is controlled by 32 competing rich-as-f~~k egomaniacs. It wasn't driven by Roger Goodell. It was driven by salty owners who were directing Goodell. This is common knowledge. They can't beat them consistently on the field, so they'll try off of it.

I've said this before, I'll say it again. If Brady came out the week this all took place and said "Hey. Every QB prefers the footballs a certain way. These guys know that I prefer them towards the lower end of the allowed range. If it dropped below, by accident, by weather, by error..that's on me. I'll take the fine and I'll be more careful with the process from our end heading forward." This all would be 100% gone.

On this, I totally agree with you. Brady (advised I'm sure by his team/lawyers) played it totally wrong. You are spot on. Your scenario would have been the best way to handle it.

Nope. He refused to admit being part of everything...and smashed his phone.

This is what I don't get. He gave them ALL the phone evidence they asked for, as stated by Wells. Brady fulfilled all obligations RE his phone according to investigators. They had all the evidence. So the phone becomes completely and totally moot at this point. Why do you ignore that?

Once the investigation was COMPLETE, and Goodell was set to adjucate, he, for no apparent reason, asked again for the phone. I can only surmise he was looking for nudes of Giselle.
 
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Uh dude, that multimillion dollar organization is controlled by 32 competing rich-as-f~~k egomaniacs. It wasn't driven by Roger Goodell. It was driven by salty owners who were directing Goodell. This is common knowledge. They can't beat them consistently on the field, so they'll try off of it.



On this, I totally agree with you. Brady (advised I'm sure by his team/lawyers) played it totally wrong. You are spot on.



This is what I don't get. He gave them ALL the phone evidence they asked for, as stated by Wells. Brady fulfilled all obligations RE his phone according to investigators. They had all the evidence. So the phone becomes completely and totally moot at this point. Why do you ignore that?

Once the investigation was COMPLETE, and Goodell was set to adjucate, he, for no apparent reason, asked again for the phone. I can only surmise he was looking for nudes of little boys.
Fixed that for you
 
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The fact they won (or lost) doesn't matter. The balls were deflated below league minimums. Coincidentally, some guy named The Deflator was somehow "involved". I'm not making this up.

But you definitely ignore when posters bring up your logical inconsistencies.

Balls were not deflated--they were at where they should have been. It's been proven.
 
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Uh dude, that multimillion dollar organization is controlled by 32 competing rich-as-f~~k egomaniacs. It wasn't driven by Roger Goodell. It was driven by salty owners who were directing Goodell. This is common knowledge. They can't beat them consistently on the field, so they'll try off of it.



On this, I totally agree with you. Brady (advised I'm sure by his team/lawyers) played it totally wrong. You are spot on. Your scenario would have been the best way to handle it.



This is what I don't get. He gave them ALL the phone evidence they asked for, as stated by Wells. Brady fulfilled all obligations RE his phone according to investigators. They had all the evidence. So the phone becomes completely and totally moot at this point. Why do you ignore that?

Once the investigation was COMPLETE, and Goodell was set to adjucate, he, for no apparent reason, asked again for the phone. I can only surmise he was looking for nudes of Giselle.


Brady said exactly that he told the guys to put it on the lower end.

He'd be braindead though to say "I'll accept whatever penalty."
 
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But you definitely ignore when posters bring up your logical inconsistencies.

Balls were not deflated--they were at where they should have been. It's been proven.

Okay.

Explain why he's called The Deflator.
 
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You are COMPLETELY ignoring the whole point of my argument w Mr. August. I was merely trying to draw the comparison that if you think the Patriots cheated because they broke the rules, even though nothing they did had any impact on any game they played, then you must think UConn cheated under Calhoun with the whole Nate Miles incident as well, because rules were also broken in that matter, even though it never impacted any game they ever played. Mr. August doesn't seem to understand this....you inserted yourself and chose to ignore the entire discussion. It's quite hilarious, this whole thing. Just come out and say you hate the Patriots, and leave it at that. Just like there are a lot of people that hate UConn and think that Calhoun is a cheater. No big deal.

UConn did cheat under Calhoun. More than once. And so did the Patriots.
 
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Okay.

Explain why he's called The Deflator.

Even if we agreed he's called the Deflator because he deflates balls, it doesn't change the fact that the balls were at the right PSI on that night.

I mean, if Killer Mike killed someone last year, and that body wasn't found, it doesn't mean that Killer Mike is responsible a year later for the murder of another person who isn't even dead.

Besides that, you might want to take a look at this:

https://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/attachments/image-jpg.9316/

A minute after the equipment guy appears on TV, the ball guy texts him and tells him to "deflate." What do YOU think it means?
 
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I mean, if Killer Mike killed someone last year, and that body wasn't found, it doesn't mean that Killer Mike is responsible a year later for the murder of another person who isn't even dead.

Okay. How would it look if "The Choker" was in a house with a girl who was choked to death in the basement and he was seen going in and out of the basement "around" the times she was missing?
 
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Okay. How would it look if "The Choker" was in a house with a girl who was choked to death in the basement and he was seen going in and out of the basement "around" the times she was missing?

Bad analogy.

The Deflator text occurred in March, 10 months before the game.

Plus, the girl wasn't choked to death by a person. They found a chicken bone in her throat.

Again, what do you think of the picture I linked to, which was one of two three texts that even mentioned the word "deflate."

The third text mentioning "deflating" exonerated Brady, by the way, but no one ever wants to talk about that one.
 

Waquoit

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Plus, the girl wasn't choked to death by a person. They found a chicken bone in her throat.

I've only been skimming this "debate". But the above is clearly my favorite line.
 

August_West

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Okay. How would it look if "The Choker" was in a house with a girl who was choked to death in the basement and he was seen going in and out of the basement "around" the times she was missing?
Plus, the girl wasn't choked to death by a person. They found a chicken bone in her throat.
giphy.gif
 

ctchamps

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Yup. Yet another thread on this topic. And yet another thread where no one has an answer to this simple question.
Just another post and not another thread. Unless you are referring to the tangled webs we weave.

I don't have a skin in this argument - pig or otherwise. I've played the holier than thou card at times. Don't need to on this.

The guys defending Brady and Belechick don't make me feel better and the guys hitting the Pats don't make me feel worse. Five Super Bowls. Still have to pinch myself.

I just love seeing "PATS!!!!!!!!" listed at the top of the page because every time I see it I flashback to how amazing and "miraculous" that victory was and how I went from acceptance to outright jubilation in that game. So continue to debate Deep and keep this thread where I can see it.
 

August_West

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Just another post and not another thread. Unless you are referring to the tangled webs we weave.

I don't have a skin in this argument - pig or otherwise. I've played the holier than thou card at times. Don't need to on this.

The guys defending Brady and Belechick don't make me feel better and the guys hitting the Pats don't make me feel worse. Five Super Bowls. Still have to pinch myself.

I just love seeing "PATS!!!!!!!!" listed at the top of the page because every time I see it I flashback to how amazing and "miraculous" that victory was and how I went from acceptance to outright jubilation in that game. So continue to debate Deep and keep this thread where I can see it.


shhhh. Dont be a rational Pats fan. Its a bad look!
 

CL82

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Lol, congrats to haters on successfully taking over a Pats congratulation thread and talking to each other for 7 pages. Well played.

Of course, the fact that there are probably over 100 pages on the BY on the Pats and nary a word on the Jets speaks volumes. (Although, I wouldn't be surprised to see ESPN do a 30 for 30 on the Jets. They love to do post mortums on disbanded teams and league and such. How long has it been since they stopped playing? It's good that NY still has the Giants.)

Regardless, let me close with:

9864578-nfl-super-bowl-li-champions-new-england-patriots-parade.jpeg
 
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