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Tennessee topics (merged threads)

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CocoHusky said:
I have

I would have to disagree. These are also accurate statements that did not need to be said during a UCONN vs. ND game. 1) ND missed out on signing KLS. 2) ND missed out on signing Lauren Cox.
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Well, they were hardly going to talk about ND missing out on KLS when Mabrey2 was going for 20+ and it wouldn't make much sense to talk about losing out on Cox when Boley & Young are in the top 11 of their rankings.

I get what you are saying; every team misses out on recruits. But it is rare and, I think, noteworthy for a top program to sign zero recruits. Maybe that happens if a team already has 12 or 13 on the roster for next year but Tennessee has 10.

I don't think it needed to be said but I don't think it was out of bounds either.
 
we all know that I am HIGHLY critical of the coaching at TN, but ESPN's agenda of just pushing SO MUCH negativity and speculation about TN was absurd. Even when TN was playing decent (3 of the 4 quarters) they did nothing but continue the pre-game storyline. Doris Burke is so incapable of calling a TN game without personal bias that I don't expect anything else. She was the same way while Parker was at TN. She has a long history. simply put, TN doesn't like Doris and Doris doesn't like TN. Just the reality.
 
LadyVols9 said:
we all know that I am HIGHLY critical of the coaching at TN, but ESPN's agenda of just pushing SO MUCH negativity and speculation about TN was absurd. Even when TN was playing decent (3 of the 4 quarters) they did nothing but continue the pre-game storyline. Doris Burke is so incapable of calling a TN game without personal bias that I don't expect anything else. She was the same way while Parker was at TN. She has a long history. simply put, TN doesn't like Doris and Doris doesn't like TN. Just the reality.
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I was with you for the first sentence or two but lost you when it got to vendetta accusations and imagine you will lose the board on this one.

But as you correctly surmise, this was a pre-game storyline; Doris was just the messenger; You're going to have to climb higher into the ESPN hierarchy to find the culprit.

As a member of your board noted and I mentioned here; ESPN has a right to be PO-ed, UTenn's collapse is bad for business.
 
Actually , I am glad to see her saying something controversial about another team rather than the Huskies.
 
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Doris is never going to win Miss Congeniality on the BY either, LV9. She and Sally Bell are two of the few things that Vols and Huskies agree on.
 
LadyVols9 said:
we all know that I am HIGHLY critical of the coaching at TN, but ESPN's agenda of just pushing SO MUCH negativity and speculation about TN was absurd. Even when TN was playing decent (3 of the 4 quarters) they did nothing but continue the pre-game storyline. Doris Burke is so incapable of calling a TN game without personal bias that I don't expect anything else. She was the same way while Parker was at TN. She has a long history. simply put, TN doesn't like Doris and Doris doesn't like TN. Just the reality.
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Can I join the club - I find the mute button and use it almost the whole game when either Burke or Peck are calling games. I didn't hear enough of the call of the game to comment, but if it was the usual 'I have this one story line that either I or someone in research has prepared for the game, and I will flog it to death regardless of what is happening in the game. One sometimes wonders if she is actually at the game with the lack of attention to the actual action.
 
Short version - Doris Burke's job is not to serve Holly Warlick. Doris Burke's job is to serve the viewers by telling them the story of the game. Tennessee's lack of a 2016 recruiting class is part of the story of the game.

To add on - it's still a small, tight world in the NCAA (w & m): Sometimes folks think you need to "help the game" by being polite and/or keeping quiet. Sometimes, actually, that's true. In this case, the stories have already been written, so Doris was speaking on the record about things that were already on the record.

It's never comfortable to hear your program being examined in a negative light on national TV. Folks get sensitive. And they assume you have an agenda (and sometimes you do, and sometimes you don't).

It's ALSO risky for the broadcaster (and the writer). These folks are friends/colleagues with long histories. Sometimes folks can't separate the personal and professional. It can be hard. You can get shut out (ask Mechelle V.), which can be painful and backfire - there ain't that many in the media who know a lot about women's basketball. You'll either get no press, a rookie or a ticked off writer who was moved off the men's game to cover you... not really a recipe for program growth.

Before someone starts pulling out the "This is the big leagues, grow some" pap, if you think this doesn't happen on the men's side, you don't pay attention... :-)
 
UcMiami said:
Can I join the club - I find the mute button and use it almost the whole game when either Burke or Peck are calling games. I didn't hear enough of the call of the game to comment, but if it was the usual 'I have this one story line that either I or someone in research has prepared for the game, and I will flog it to death regardless of what is happening in the game. One sometimes wonders if she is actually at the game with the lack of attention to the actual action.
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Exactly, UcMiami. My coworker and her dad use the mute button when [Burke] is calling the game.
 
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For that matter, Doris may have actually HELPED UT recruiting by saying, in effect, "Hey prospects, here is a big name school with an insane fanbase that can give you a TON of PT, and a coach who won't make too many demands on you."

Well, maybe...
 
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LadyVols9 said:
we all know that I am HIGHLY critical of the coaching at TN, but ESPN's agenda of just pushing SO MUCH negativity and speculation about TN was absurd. Even when TN was playing decent (3 of the 4 quarters) they did nothing but continue the pre-game storyline. Doris Burke is so incapable of calling a TN game without personal bias that I don't expect anything else. She was the same way while Parker was at TN. She has a long history. simply put, TN doesn't like Doris and Doris doesn't like TN. Just the reality.
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Speaking of speculation please fill in the blanks for me.
Doris is anti-LadyVols and pro the ___________ program.
Dee Kanter is anti-LadyVols and pro the __________ program.
 
Replicant said:
Dawn not staying in her lane is actually what's "not cool".
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This is strictly a Philly thing- when a Philly person starts a sentence by saying "I'm one that stays in my lane"-trust that they are in their lane and quite comfortable in it.
 
CocoHusky said:
This is strictly a Philly thing- when a Philly person starts a sentence by saying "I'm one that stays in my lane"-trust that they are in their lane and quite comfortable in it.
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Right - "not cool" and fully disingenuous.
 
let me be even more clear-----i agree with a lot of what Doris said. the recruiting thing was not fully explained. TN was only looking for a post and two of the three post targets (holmes, cox) chose to stay in their home state. they didn't choose lots of top programs, including UCONN, ND, etc. anyone following their recruitment knew that getting them out of TX was going to be very difficult for any program. there is NO evidence they didn't choose TN b/c of Holly. just like there is no evidence they didn't want to play for Geno. They wanted to stay in TX. Doris should have used context to explain rather than laying out a premise and half the facts.

the other post target went to OSU where apparently the rest of the universe is flocking to. not even going to speculate about that whole mess.

my main problem is this: why spend TWO hours recycling the same comments over and over? heck, outside of the 3rd quarter, the LVs played right with or at times better than ND. she was so busy plugging the agenda that she didn't even call the game. i do think it's OK to talk about these things on a broadcast but doing it for TWO HOURS is clearly a witch hunt. that's all i'm saying. the LVs deserve lots of criticism but she went too far and dawn called her out. not exactly a fan of dawn but she took a stance and i applaud that.
 
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LadyVols9 said:
we all know that I am HIGHLY critical of the coaching at TN, but ESPN's agenda of just pushing SO MUCH negativity and speculation about TN was absurd. Even when TN was playing decent (3 of the 4 quarters) they did nothing but continue the pre-game storyline. Doris Burke is so incapable of calling a TN game without personal bias that I don't expect anything else. She was the same way while Parker was at TN. She has a long history. simply put, TN doesn't like Doris and Doris doesn't like TN. Just the reality.
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Sounds like my kind of lady!
 
As I said, some folks get sensitive... remember when the FALSE witch hunt was led against UConn...

Here, I'm just calling your bluff, 9. The criticism was legit... and if public embarrassment doesn't engender a change, serves folks right.

And Dawn's faux call out was just that.... faux. And not cool.

If you're that upset, call Doris. Don't air your dirty laundry in public and call down more attention. Not cool.
 
Wbbfan1 said:
Don't think Cheating in recruiting applies to UConn this time. I believe Lady Vol fans think OSU Cheated to get Tori McCoy to sign by offering a scholarship to her sister.
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UConnCat said:
Doris laid out some of Tennessee's problems:

Inconsistent effort
No sense of urgency
Lack of toughness
Poor offensive execution
No recruits signed in 2016.

Well, to say Doris's comments created quite a stir in twitter land would be an understatement. Dawn didn't like what Doris said about recruiting (cited above). The number one Lady Vol defender (keep reading and you'll know who I'm talking about) said that Doris failed to mention cheating. Yes, cheating is rampant in women's basketball. Pat never cheated. Holly won't cheat. Oh, and Muffet doesn't cheat either. Everyone else does. That about sums up the twitter dust-up.

Dave and Doris didn't put forth their best effort last night (a lot was missed) and the halftime show was strange. Still, I didn't have a problem with what Doris said. This isn't any old program that's underperforming. This is a heralded program that was picked to go to the final four.
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I believe that any school that wishes to make an allegation of cheating should be required to admit who they are and not hide behind the conference, to post the details of such an allegation, identify evidence they supposedly have. Pat never cheated, probably not. Holly? Who knows but from the lack of any apparent success getting big recruits she likely is not cheating. WBBFAB1 says UConn likely did not cheat this time. Got any proof of past cheating? Spell it out. Really gets me PO'd that someone would throw out a statement like that and not have any proof. It's beneath despicable.
 
LadyVols9 said:
let me be even more clear-----i agree with a lot of what Doris said. the recruiting thing was not fully explained. TN was only looking for a post and two of the three post targets (holmes, cox) chose to stay in their home state. they didn't choose lots of top programs, including UCONN, ND, etc. anyone following their recruitment knew that getting them out of TX was going to be very difficult for any program. there is NO evidence they didn't choose TN b/c of Holly. just like there is no evidence they didn't want to play for Geno. They wanted to stay in TX. Doris should have used context to explain rather than laying out a premise and half the facts.

the other post target went to OSU where apparently the rest of the universe is flocking to. not even going to speculate about that whole mess.

my main problem is this: why spend TWO hours recycling the same comments over and over? heck, outside of the 3rd quarter, the LVs played right with or at times better than ND. she was so busy plugging the agenda that she didn't even call the game. i do think it's OK to talk about these things on a broadcast but doing it for TWO HOURS is clearly a witch hunt. that's all i'm saying. the LVs deserve lots of criticism but she went too far and dawn called her out. not exactly a fan of dawn but she took a stance and i applaud that.
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I'm not sure you wanted Doris to go the"full explanation" route. A full explanation of the LadyVols recruiting situation (or lack of ) might have taken up the full broadcast. Besides Cox & Holmes there was Stephanie Mavunga, Cierra Johnson, Evelyn Akhator, Tori McCoy. & Krystaline McCune-and those are just the post players that had opportunities to start for the Lady Vols in the 2016-17 season and probably could have averaged more than 30 minutes per game.
 
Huskies Rule said:
wbbfan1:" I believe Lady Vol fans think OSU Cheated to get Tori McCoy to sign by offering a scholarship to her sister."

On top of the McCoy crapola, if we're talking about unsavory behavior, one mustn't forget that OSU's sleazy coach McGuff has a history, previously cutting a foul-smelling deal with Mark Mitchell.

Mark Mitchell was hired as McGuff's assistant coach and then magically, coincidentally, literally hours after that, his daughter Kelsey Mitchell (the highly sought after top 10 recruit) and her sister (not even a top 150 recruit!) signed on the OSU dotted line for full 4-year rides. OSU was willing to give/pay Mitchell serious $$$ (job) and gave the after-thought sister (who by most accounts will never be any kind of player) a scholarship worth well over a hundred grand. All this to get Kelsey Mitchell to play basketball.

Sure sounds like "pay to play" to me.
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It wasn't literally hours after that. Her father took the job in May. Kelsey Mitchell committed to OSU July 31st. And Mitchell did have over 20 years of coaching experience. So it's not like he has zero clue on the basketball court.

Overall, I'm not a fan of the family deal, but the father has experience coaching, he helped turn around a high school program in a matter of years. In fact, Kelsey, didn't even commit to OSU until a month after Chelsea, her lesser-touted sister committed.

Mark Mitchell's hiring article 5/31/2013.
Kelsey Mitchell's commitment announcement. 7/31/2013.

Again, not a fan of this "recruiting" or anything. Just wanted to clear that misinformation up.
 
LadyVols9 said:
we all know that I am HIGHLY critical of the coaching at TN, but ESPN's agenda of just pushing SO MUCH negativity and speculation about TN was absurd. Even when TN was playing decent (3 of the 4 quarters) they did nothing but continue the pre-game storyline.
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TN was down 25 until ND took their feet off the gas. This was a bad game and crowing that it was close for a bit is what bad teams say. And Doris spent the last few minutes talking about their toughness, which was ridiculous. And the fans didn't need Burke to tell the audience that something is wrong, fans could see for themselves.
 
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Everything that Doris said last night about Tennessee's woes has been said on this board, VolNation and the Summitt. (And a lot worse that she didn't say!) Where do you people think she gets it from? Game commentators always scan the message boards for big games they're covering. Right now it's a toss-up between Duke and Tennessee as to whose fans are most disappointed and most want to see their coach fired. How could that not bleed over into the color comments during the game? Especially when the game became relatively non-competitive in the third quarter.

Yeah, I know. It's okay for real fans to criticize the team and its coaches, but not for anyone outside the "family."

Sorry, but that doesn't apply to iconic teams (Dallas Cowboys. New York Yankees. LA Lakers. Etc. Etc.) in today's media landscape. When the most consistent teams in WCBB history have a bad year, it's going to be discussed in the media. Charlie Crème at ESPN was all over Duke today!) If you want the sport of WCBB to be considered big time, you have to take the bad with the good.

And for Holly and others going all mushy over Dawn's “supportive” comments, they should carefully consider who her real audience is – every recruit she has shown interest in for SC probably follows her tweets. Wouldn't you like to know what she's telling potential recruits about her program vs. the Lady Vols? ("Too bad about Pat and their program.... I hope they get it straightened out... but in the meantime, glad that you want to come to Columbia and play for a winner!")

There’s a lot of folks in TN today who think Dawn’s motives were other than altruistic.
 
Orangutan said:
Well, they were hardly going to talk about ND missing out on KLS when Mabrey2 was going for 20+ and it wouldn't make much sense to talk about losing out on Cox when Boley & Young are in the top 11 of their rankings.

I get what you are saying; every team misses out on recruits. But it is rare and, I think, noteworthy for a top program to sign zero recruits. Maybe that happens if a team already has 12 or 13 on the roster for next year but Tennessee has 10.

I don't think it needed to be said but I don't think it was out of bounds either.
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Recruiting for UT is a LOT harder now than it was even just 5 years ago. Recruits today aren't as aware of Tennessee's history/prominence. 2017 recruits were just 8-9 years old when Tennessee was last in the Final Four. They are MUCH more likely to be excited at the prospect of Connecticut, Stanford, Baylor, Notre Dame, etc. When they look at how the teams are playing in Final Fours, have superstars, which schools are producing WNBA players, which coaches have proven records of success, etc. Tennessee doesn't come to mind anymore. They also don't have a strong men's program or academic reputation like Duke to counteract this and make Tennessee seem like a desirable place to go. Furthermore, when there are rumors rampant about how dysfunctional the locker room is at UT, players give mediocre effort in games and how players aren't buying into Holly's philosophy, why would a recruit want to go there? I miss the days when people were talking about UT's issues in 2005/2006 with all of the injuries, SWG quitting and players being jealous of all the hype/attention Parker was getting, but Pat still pumped out teams that easily could have won it all. Nowadays, Tennessee still has a slew of McDy's AAs but the team looks to have zero chance of winning the SEC, making the Final Four or even being a competitive team.
 
Bestiarius said:
Worries that UConn will follow Tennessee's path are unfounded. Tennessee's woes can be attributed to divine retribution. An organization cannot behave as unethically against another team (UConn), and go unscathed.
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This has always been my thought. The dark clown over Volnation will not be lifted until the true comes out from the horse's mouth.
 
I just hope when the time comes for a new coach, it will be another young, handsome but tough mentalist like Geno.
Well, at least that was how Lobo decided to come to Uconn.
 
vtcwbuff said:
I just read a funny take on Staley's comments about Burke. On the VN board a poster opined that Staley was supporting Warlick because she wants her to continue coaching UTenn. Similar to those here hoping that Warlick gets a 10 year contract extension.
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Well, that is definitely a way to look at it.

I don't think it was a problem that Doris made the statement, but I thought the way she said it sounded a bit crass.
 
cockhrnleghrn said:
I don't think it was a problem that Doris made the statement, but I thought the way she said it sounded a bit crass.
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A bit crass? Where are we, Downton Abbey? Fact is, it's tough being the 1st coach after the legend and few succeed. Three years seems to be the mark where it's apparent it's not going to work. This is Holly's fourth. She's done. You can see it in her face. She has no answers, she just claps harder. The lack of any recruits is the canary in the coal mine.
 
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