Tennessee topics (merged threads)

[Farney]

I'm a few hours late but I had to make sure I got my weekly (becoming twice weekly at this point) post in after a Tennessee loss...

"It couldn't happen to a "better" team."

 

[Kibitzer]

My problem with the Shea candidacy is that her record is unclear. . ...She may very well be an extraordinary candidate, but its hard for us to know. . . . In the case of Becky, we surely do know.

I'm missing something about Becky's vast coaching experience, especially at the college level. There, HS players are evaluated, recruited, and developed, and alumni are courted. At UConn, interviews are handled by Geno and CD and they are in great demand, not Shea or Marisa.

We know Shea better than we know Becky and I doubt Ms Hammon knows much about Storrs.

 

[UConnCat]

It's been 20 years since Rizotti left UConn. If you watch the games it isn't the same "system" by a long shot. Ralph has spent the last 8 years learning from the best. If a hire is from within the UConn family it will be Ralph. I don't think any of the other ex players have the chops.

When Geno retires, the best program in the history of women's college basketball is not going to be handed over to someone from outside the program. That's just not going to happen. Plus, I don't understand why someone with no connection to UConn would want to coach in Geno's shadow. That makes no sense.

If Shea is still an assistant when Geno retires I think she will be the next coach. She will have connections to the current players as well as the players UConn is recruiting.

 

[iri10]

We'll be fine as long as Geno is here. Afterwards...well, things will possibly not be so nice.

WCBB is a coaching-dominated variant of the sport; it's the most important drawing force, which is why a legend like Geno (and Pat) can draw excellent talent from so far afield. If you don't have a legend as your coach, you have to rely on other drawing factors. Here's how UConn does on those.

*Geographical proximity to talent: UConn fares poorly here.
*Quality of facilities: Great basketball practice facility. Mediocre arenas. We'll call this a wash.
*Prestige of the school's name: "I mean, hello, it's [Insert University Name]!" UConn has some name draw specifically within the world of basketball, but overall it still lags behind the main name draws. Places like Duke, North Carolina, Texas, UCLA, etc.
*Prestige (and income potential) of the athletic conference: UConn doesn't score points here.

Those are the only ones that will draw long term. There are other things, like historical excellence, that will draw on a temporary basis, but not a permanent one. (see the Louisiana Techs of the world)

Long story short, UConn's hand is not great in the post-Geno world. Over the long term, I actually think that the UConn men will survive this environment better than the women. There's a lot of talent to go around on the men's side, so even after the P5 have had their fill, there's enough talent left for some non-P5 teams to reach near-elite status. On the women's side, talent is so sparse that there's rarely more than a dozen teams worth talking about in any given year.

Our worst case scenario is worse than Tennessee's worst case scenario, because they still edge us on geographical proximity and with their athletic conference. Needless to say, I'm hoping that we don't hit our worst case scenario.

edit: Things that can help us avoid the worst case scenario include 1. UConn gets accepted to a P5 conference, and 2. Lighting strikes twice, and we get another young, charismatic coach with the ability to make the most of his or her players, recruit well despite the mediocre conference, etc. And then he or she would have to decide to stay even with the big offers from P5 schools start coming in. In other words, another legend coach.

 

[cabbie191]

A most telling and factual statement from eric... And speaking of recruiting, Warlick’s mark is nowhere to be found on the recruiting trail this year either. According to ESPN HoopGurlz Recruiting for 2016, Tennessee has all of 0 top 100 recruits. And don’t sell me on youth and limited roster spots when you’ve got two seniors leaving.

This has to be on the minds of the administration and the fan base. The top 2 that aren't committed do not even have TN on their consideration list. Got to love the irony that our #1 recruit is coming out of TN .

Got to love the color scheme you used, too!

 

[trb123]

Graham Hays' article:

http://espn.go.com/womens-college-b...tennessee-lady-volunteers-traded-places-short

There is very little in it why it bittersweet for the Lady Vols.

 

[Wbbfan1]

Dawn Staley used twitter to comment on Doris' comments on Lady Vols Recruiting.

I'm one that stays in my lane but to listen to the commentators speak about Tenn and its recruiting class is disturbing. #notcool #SEC

Did Doris go overboard on her comments about Lady Vols recruiting or is it fair game and part of the story of the game/program? Do you think her comments wi"ll hurt Lady Vols recruiting in the future?

I think it was Doris that was making the comments. Please correct me if I got the name wrong.

 

[ctfjr]

Absolutely fair game. Its a major part of any program & reflects (fairly or unfairly) what is going on there. Suck it up Dawn.

 

[msf22b]

They have no recruits for next season, zero
It's a big story.

 

[wbbfan]

I didn't see anything wrong with her comments. She was simply telling the truth...

 

[Huskyfaninsd]

And it look like Holly acknowledged Dawn's tweet in her social media. Personally, I have no problem Doris talking about recruiting, struggles, etc. These coaches get paid a ton of money and need to be held accountable. While Holly keeps saying she knows what she got into (in terms of being a head coach at UT), I don't think she really did.

 

[xHunt3r]

What exactly did Doris say?

Also, I find Dawn's twit kind of passive aggressive. Like she is trying to let more people know Tennessee has recruiting problems without actually saying herself that Tennessee has recruiting problems. More likely now that the media questions Holly about. More likely Holly has to address it publicly. More likely kids that both schools are recruiting hear that Tennessee has recruiting problems.

 

[meyers7]

What exactly did Doris say?

Also, I find Dawn's twit kind of passive aggressive. Like she is trying to let more people know Tennessee has recruiting problems without actually saying herself that Tennessee has recruiting problems. More likely now that the media questions Holly about. More likely Holly has to address it publicly. More likely kids that both schools are recruiting hear that Tennessee has recruiting problems.

Yea maybe we should all re-tweet any tweets about TN recruiting problems.

#TNrecruitingproblems

 

[huskeynut]

Doris' mentioning that UT has no signed recruits for 2016 is fair game. It's part of the story of UT and their struggles this year.

Doris also commented on UT whiffing on their 2 post hopes, and how the Lady Vols looked at various times during the game. All these comments are fair game in big time basketball.

 

[UConnCat]

Doris laid out some of Tennessee's problems:

Inconsistent effort
No sense of urgency
Lack of toughness
Poor offensive execution
No recruits signed in 2016.

Well, to say Doris's comments created quite a stir in twitter land would be an understatement. Dawn didn't like what Doris said about recruiting (cited above). The number one Lady Vol defender (keep reading and you'll know who I'm talking about) said that Doris failed to mention cheating. Yes, cheating is rampant in women's basketball. Pat never cheated. Holly won't cheat. Oh, and Muffet doesn't cheat either. Everyone else does. That about sums up the twitter dust-up.

Dave and Doris didn't put forth their best effort last night (a lot was missed) and the halftime show was strange. Still, I didn't have a problem with what Doris said. This isn't any old program that's underperforming. This is a heralded program that was picked to go to the final four.

 

[Bonpland]

When Chong was our only recruit three years ago people were saying that UCONN was having trouble recruiting the players that they really wanted. Now we've had two strong years with the Williams-Nurse class and the KLS-Collier class and Dangerfield is on her way. We didn't get Cox, Durr or McCoy when we really wanted them, does that mean that we are having trouble recruiting the players we need?

The answer is (partially anyway) yes, it's harder to recruit now than it was ten years ago. More top schools are taking their women's programs seriously and paying top coaches accordingly. It's not enough to be Duke, Stanford, Tennessee and even UCONN anymore and to expect an outstanding prospect to be "honored" to play at your school.

The landscape is changing and we fortunately have Geno, CD, and 10 Championships to help in our recruiting, but school brand is not enough anymore. There are many attractive options for 17 year-olds to consider. As long as Geno is here those other options come with the prospect of finishing second most often, but playing near home, or within a system that will allow a H.S. star to play immediately, or that will allow "their game" to flourish means something to a lot of kids.

Tennessee is still, and will remain, one of the top programs in America, and if Holly is deposed the line of interested coaching candidates will stretch from Knoxville to the Pacific. Someone will take that job who is a major talent and the Vols will again compete for National Championships.

Hopefully when that happens the culture there will change and the team's fans and followers will learn to concentrate on the performance of their players and not their dislike and distrust of their opponents. Tennessee can hope to recover and achieve what South Carolina has, where Staley has a team that was once (not very long ago) an afterthought, now competing for the big prize.

But first they'll have to find another Dawn or Jeff W. to right the ship, and they will. And when that new coach decides that it is more important to play UCONN (the same way that SC, Stanford, Maryland, and ND have) than it is to protest our existence, then we will go back to marking our calenders and sharpening our knives for those days when we will again play each other in a meaningful game.

But that won't be this year or anytime soon.

 

[Wbbfan1]

Don't think Cheating in recruiting applies to UConn this time. I believe Lady Vol fans think OSU Cheated to get Tori McCoy to sign by offering a scholarship to her sister.

Doris laid out some of Tennessee's problems:

Inconsistent effort
No sense of urgency
Lack of toughness
Poor offensive execution
No recruits signed in 2016.

Well, to say Doris's comments created quite a stir in twitter land would be an understatement. Dawn didn't like what Doris said about recruiting (cited above). The number one Lady Vol defender (keep reading and you'll know who I'm talking about) said that Doris failed to mention cheating. Yes, cheating is rampant in women's basketball. Pat never cheated. Holly won't cheat. Oh, and Muffet doesn't cheat either. Everyone else does. That about sums up the twitter dust-up.

Dave and Doris didn't put forth their best effort last night (a lot was missed) and the halftime show was strange. Still, I didn't have a problem with what Doris said. This isn't any old program that's underperforming. This is a heralded program that was picked to go to the final four.

 

[Kaizen]

Doris talked about Tenn's recruiting problem, why Dawn got disturbing?
I don't get that.

 

[msf22b]

I surmised last evening that ESPN might have an agenda in bashing UTenn,
gave some (in my view, decisive) evidence to support the claim that it was pre-planned
and suggested that a weak UTenn program was contrary to ESPN's best interests.

That argument was persuasively made by a Vol fan on their discussion page...I paraphrase:
He thinks ESPN is heavily invested in woman's BB and is pushing the envelope to see if they can wake up anyone in the Knoxville administration to the fact that what is happening on the court is not good for business.

Went a whole lot further than me.

I agree

 

[huskyd]

My first reaction to Dawn's twit was: isn't SC having some problems on the recruiting end? If so, publically citing recruiting deficiencies might be a habit that Stanley wouldn't like to see sports announcers continue or expand upon. It's no done deal that the Gamecocks are here to stay at the top of WCBB. Certain schools have built-in advantages such as ND, Duke, Stanford with their educational cachet or Maryland with its proximity to DC. And UConn has Geno. Those schools will consistently attract top players. But is SC a magnet for young women wanting to play basketball? I don't think it is yet--and it may never be. Dawn hasn't been around long enough to be labeled a great coach; there are only a few of those. So why go to SC?

 

[Dillon77]

Doris laid out some of Tennessee's problems:

Inconsistent effort
No sense of urgency
Lack of toughness
Poor offensive execution
No recruits signed in 2016.

Well, to say Doris's comments created quite a stir in twitter land would be an understatement. Dawn didn't like what Doris said about recruiting (cited above). The number one Lady Vol defender (keep reading and you'll know who I'm talking about) said that Doris failed to mention cheating. Yes, cheating is rampant in women's basketball. Pat never cheated. Holly won't cheat. Oh, and Muffet doesn't cheat either. Everyone else does. That about sums up the twitter dust-up.

Dave and Doris didn't put forth their best effort last night (a lot was missed) and the halftime show was strange. Still, I didn't have a problem with what Doris said. This isn't any old program that's underperforming. This is a heralded program that was picked to go to the final four.

I watched the game last night and the sound was off for a lot of it, but once it kicked in I thought Dave O'Brien and Doris Burke were pretty much stating what they saw and summarized various other comments that have been reported and/or observed. Here's a link to ESPNw's page with the post-game comments and Graham Hay's story.
http://espn.go.com/womens-college-b...tennessee-lady-volunteers-traded-places-short


She and Dave O'Brien gave credit where credit was due for the Vols's tough schedule and their three top 25 wins, but also pointed out that the Vols have 7 High School All-Americans...the contrast between that talent bank and their record-to-date and performances was clear cut to me (they're underachieving..and the fan base is getting restless).

On the other hand, Doris also pointed out -- correctly -- that the Irish are very thin up front with, ostensibly, just Turner and Westbeld, and Taya Reimer's absence is putting increasing pressure on Turner. Fair game. (Plus, that it's freezing in South Bend (under 0)....I think O'Brien does not like the cold.)

The comment on recruiting came during the flow of the game and was direct and the point. It was not overly judgemental. In fact, when she brought up the Vols went after 2 posts and whiffed on both, I thought of UConn and ND fans all saying "...one of whom was Lauren Cox." Totally fair game to me.

As for half-time, boy -- do people tiptoe around the Texas A&M foul situation, citing everything from "just entered the game" to the "frenetic crowd." One of the commentators (Rebecca Lobo, I think) said teams often huddle to make sure they all know what's going on. I can think of numerous times Michaela Mabrey pulls the Irish together to remind teammates of what's going on and I usee UConn huddle a lot as as well...

 

[sarals24]

I think Dawn's statement was a way of drawing more attention to the problems UT has. I mean, does anyone really think she is out defending Tennessee on the recruiting trail?

 

[MilfordHusky]

Saniya's class was obviously small, but when you have arguably the top 3 in their class in 2012 who have a chance at 13 NCAA championships combined--with 9 in the books already--there is no place to go but down. At least Kia, Gabby, Lou, and Napheesa look like major recruits. I have little doubt that Crystal will be a superstar.

 

[Monte]

When Chong was our only recruit three years ago people were saying that UCONN was having trouble recruiting the players that they really wanted. Now we've had two strong years with the Williams-Nurse class and the KLS-Collier class and Dangerfield is on her way. We didn't get Cox, Durr or McCoy when we really wanted them, does that mean that we are having trouble recruiting the players we need?

The answer is (partially anyway) yes, it's harder to recruit now than it was ten years ago. More top schools are taking their women's programs seriously and paying top coaches accordingly. It's not enough to be Duke, Stanford, Tennessee and even UCONN anymore and to expect an outstanding prospect to be "honored" to play at your school.

The landscape is changing and we fortunately have Geno, CD, and 10 Championships to help in our recruiting, but school brand is not enough anymore. There are many attractive options for 17 year-olds to consider. As long as Geno is here those other options come with the prospect of finishing second most often, but playing near home, or within a system that will allow a H.S. star to play immediately, or that will allow "their game" to flourish means something to a lot of kids.

Tennessee is still, and will remain, one of the top programs in America, and if Holly is deposed the line of interested coaching candidates will stretch from Knoxville to the Pacific. Someone will take that job who is a major talent and the Vols will again compete for National Championships.

Hopefully when that happens the culture there will change and the team's fans and followers will learn to concentrate on the performance of their players and not their dislike and distrust of their opponents. Tennessee can hope to recover and achieve what South Carolina has, where Staley has a team that was once (not very long ago) an afterthought, now competing for the big prize.

But first they'll have to find another Dawn or Jeff W. to right the ship, and they will. And when that new coach decides that it is more important to play UCONN (the same way that SC, Stanford, Maryland, and ND have) than it is to protest our existence, then we will go back to marking our calenders and sharpening our knives for those days when we will again play each other in a meaningful game.

But that won't be this year or anytime soon.

Frankly, I don't really care if we play them again! As far as the recruiting goes, perhaps Holly knows that she will not be there much longer; why spend so much time on the recruiting trail?

 

[UcMiami]

One of the standard comments by those calling a game is to mention who is going to graduate at the end of the year and who is coming in to carry on the programs winning ways so I see no difference with saying they have a top five recruiting class and saying they have nobody signed for the next year - just giving the standard patter.
Editorializing 'zero recruits' to 'recruiting problems' is not necessary, but is sort of stating the obvious and certainly not going anywhere that fans haven't already gone. Heck the VolNation board is full of threads condemning Holly for exactly that fact (as well as her inability to coach the current players.)