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Tennessee topics (merged threads)

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msf22b

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We watch the demise of the Lady Vols basketball establishment with some glee, exuberance, and a bit of trepidation.

I know this has been discussed before, but the poignancy of their plight is heightened by the fear that this could happen to us as well.

Is UTenn's abrupt decline, the roadmap that the UConn program is destined to traverse?

Obviously, the choice of new leadership upon Geno's retirement, will have the majority effect on the continuation of the program's success. Several years ago, I wrote a thesis in which I described that the life-span of independent orchestras in New York is proscribed; most often associated with the enthusiasm of their founders and like dance companies, when the major founding figure is no longer active, they are rapidly diminished and often disappear. (For those New York arts buffs, consider: Music Aeterna, Opera Orchestra of New York, Y Chamber Symphony, Brooklyn Philharmonic, and even the New York City Opera).

Let us examine certain options. Isn't it likely that CD will retire simultaneously with Geno?
It would be wonderful if she stayed for a few seasons, easing the transition, and imparting her special brand of values to off-court standards. But most of us feel that it is unlikely that she will either be an interim head or choose to reenlist in a new administration.

Geno may have a real sense as to whom he would recommend as the next head and may have a great influence as to his successor as did Pat Summit and Jim Calhoun. But clearly, it is not in anyones interest for him to publicly muse about it.

Pat chose one of her long-time assistants and a former player; it appears to have not worked out very well. Jim also chose a former player who had graduated into an important and extended NBA career and had developed a unique reputation for setting the highest standards in professionality for his younger teammates. to emulate. Many of today's superstars recall Kevin's influence with admiration and respect. After a short, two year apprenticeship as Calhoun assistant, Kevin was a brilliant choice.

Discussion as to whom will emerge as Geno's successor has centered around his current assistants, especially Shea, and Jennifer Rizzotti at Hartford, both former hard-nosed, UConn guards who thrived as unique performers in the team's earlier successes.

Nevertheless I anticipate that Geno will surprise us and go outside the program for his recommendation.
(I must admit to being quite uninformed as to Shea's actual contribution presently, but Jenn's record is quite
understood).

Almost as important as the choice of the new coach is the replacement of the CD figure. I suggest the Marisa Moseley is being groomed to slide into that role.

The most significant young mind in the basketball coaching firmament with Kevin Ollie-like credentials appears to be Becky Hammon. if she is not grabbed by another major program...Tennessee would be hard pressed to find someone better to rejuvenate their program...Becky would be the type of candidate that UConn might very well recruit.
 

UcMiami

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Nice little summary and obviously it is all conjecture, but I will say one thing:
Hiring Holly in the extraordinary circumstances that TN found itself in was I think a very good choice, and I think she carried out the transition with skill and decent success - she produced teams that carried on at about the same levels as the TN teams prior to her hire. She landed some good recruits and she kept the players she inherited. I think the mistake TN made was in extending her contract beyond its initial term - she had managed the transition well, but there was no reason to extend the contract. The initial contract would be ending at the end of this year - something a lot of TN fans would rejoice over - but it has been extended more than once and is now running through the 2018-19 season, while the performance has been getting more and more questionable.

Hopefully whenever a transition occurs at uconn it will be able to be managed with more planning.
 
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The fortunes of our beloved Lady Vols are in decline. But the news of their demise has been greatly exaggerated.

The Lady Vols have a lot of talent. Combined with Margo's wisdom, they can be quite lethal.

If they make the NCAA, a sweet 16 defeat is distinctly possible. I cannot rule out an elite 8 defeat at this stage.

At the very least they will be this year's WNIT champions, the question of interest being if that banner will hang from the rafters of their home court. Perhaps one of their supporters frequenting the Boneyard will give us some insight on that. Where will the WNIT trophy be displayed should the Lady Vols win it this year?
 
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Hammon would be a tremendous college coach at the highest level where her expertise would be utilized to its maximum. However, I suspect that she has her sights set on being a trailblazer for women coaching men's professional sports. And I believe that she has the intangibles to do it eventually.
 

Wbbfan1

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While I don't see the demise of UConn as long as Geno and CD captain the ship, I do see a decline in the program for the next couple of years. UConn will not be THE dominant Women's program with the graduation of Stewie and Moriah and especially more so if Morgan decides to leave. UConn will be one of the upper echelon teams competing for a number one seed and the Final Four instead of an automatic lock for both. There will be a number of teams that will at least be equal or more talented then UConn. UConn won't have on the roster the best player in the country at any position like they do this year in Stewie, Moriah and possibly Morgan. The 2017 and 2018 Recruiting classes will determine if UConn will regain their position as THE dominant program. Geno needs to sign a difference maker in 2017 and/or 2018 Class to regain the Dominant Program Status.
 
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While I don't see the demise of UConn as long as Geno and CD captain the ship, I do see a decline in the program for the next couple of years. UConn will not be THE dominant Women's program with the graduation of Stewie and Moriah and especially more so if Morgan decides to leave. UConn will be one of the upper echelon teams competing for a number one seed and the Final Four instead of an automatic lock for both. There will be a number of teams that will at least be equal or more talented then UConn. UConn won't have on the roster the best player in the country at any position like they do this year in Stewie, Moriah and possibly Morgan. The 2017 and 2018 Recruiting classes will determine if UConn will regain their position as THE dominant program. Geno needs to sign a difference maker in 2017 and/or 2018 Class to regain the Dominant Program Status.
I have been thinking of a 29-8 record next season for some time. No particular reason why I chose 8 defeats. Just tempering my expectations.
 

sarals24

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It all depends on who UConn hires. If they hire from within, I think the chances of success are far greater than they were at Tennessee, because the system in place at UConn is so much better. Pat relied on getting the biggest, strongest, fastest players, buckling down on defense and rebounding and hoping the other team didn't score enough to win. Even with Parker, those teams played a lot of ugly games. Holly is basically running the same "system", without the motivational powers of Pat.
Contrast that with UConn, where passing, shot selection, reading defenses, etc are all highly valued. The assistants know that system and I'm sure will continue to implement it. Whether they will achieve Geno's success with recruiting and motivation will be the big question.
 

toadfoot

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We watch the demise of the Lady Vols basketball establishment with some glee, exuberance, and a bit of trepidation.

I know this has been discussed before, but the poignancy of their plight is heightened by the fear that this could happen to us as well.

It not only could happen to UConn, but most assuredly will happen. The unknowns are when and how severely will it happen. I for one plan to enjoy the ride for as long as it lasts.
As a long-time Patriots fan I've thoroughly enjoyed their 15 year run, unprecedented in the salary cap/free agency era, but I suffered through a lot of really bad years and I will probably see them again. As a Cubs fan I've suffered through decades of hope followed by disappointment and their time may finally be upon us. Sports goes in cycles. Always has and always will. Just bask in the glow when it's your team's turn.
 
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Once you reach the peak, the only way afterwards would be going down, could be steep or a slow decline. Shadenfreude is not a good virtue, it can backfire on you when it is due.
 
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Worries that UConn will follow Tennessee's path are unfounded. Tennessee's woes can be attributed to divine retribution. An organization cannot behave as unethically against another team (UConn), and go unscathed.

Fear not, post Geno, UConn will be rewarded with continued excellence.
 
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There is no doubt that once Geno retires the program will go through a major adjustment. He is why recruits come to UConn. They want to be the best they can be and also win championships. Without his ability to draw recruits things could get sticky.
In my opinion Jen R would be the most likely candidate. She is a former player, knows the system. has Div 1 head coach experience and has worked with USA basketball for years. Solid resume. Both Tonya C and Jamelle E would also have to get some consideration. I think Shea's lack of experience as a head coach would be a problem.
 
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I have watched many Tennessee games this year, and I have to agree with the majority of the Lady Vol fans (at least those who post on Vol Nation) that the problem is the coaching and not the talent. They have something like 7 McDonald's AA on that team! Most UT supporters seem to like the talent and dislike coach Warlick, who they perceive as unable to teach offense and inculcate discipline, is too chummy with the players, and pretty much lets the inmates run the asylum.

That could never happen at UConn. Ever. Yes, there will come a time when there is a drop-off in our talent pool :(, that is inevitable. UConn may not, year in and year out, get the true HS greats like Stewie, Moriah, and Morgan (DT, Maya, Tina, et al), but UConn will continue to get those very good kids who are willing to work harder than anyone else, who want to be champions, who will play relentless defense and unselfish team ball without giving a damn about the stat line- as long as the team wins.

And while I have no idea who will succeed Geno (I vote Sue!), the UConn Women's program, INDISPUTABLY THE GREATEST IN THE HISTORY OF WCBB, will be fine. No dynasty lasts forever- not the Boston Celtics, the NY Yankees, the LA Lakers, Chicago Bulls or Green Bay Packers. And not the UConn Women's Basketball dynasty. Forever simply is not a possibility in the world of sports. But for as long as UConn's magnificent, incredible, dominating, historic run lasts, I'll say thank you, Huskies, and I will continue to unabashedly enjoy the hell out of it.
 
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Gus Mahler

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I think a better model for what will happen to UCONN post-Geno is the UCLA men's program. In the forty years since Wooden retired, they've had a lot of good coaches, none great. They've had a lot of really good teams and have won a lot of games and conference championships, but only one national championship.

Each school has formidable institutional arrangements working against it. For UCLA, it's the inability, owing to laws and policies, to pay a top coach what he can get elsewhere. They also lack a state-of-the-art practice facility and have an enormous access problem because of traffic. They also have lofty admission standards, which may be an obstacle to the one-and-done talents.

For UCONN, it's the conference affiliation. Post-Geno, that will work against it. Also, posters here speak of Gampel being dated and that access is a problem as well.

I guess the analogy breaks down regarding weather! :cool:
 
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I am one who has previously opined on this forum that, owing to our own vulnerability in the post-Geno world, we UConn fans should go easy on the pleasure derived from the downfall of our old arch-rival. For those who say that we should put our concerns about the distant future aside and just enjoy the current ride as long as we can, well, you are absolutely right. For those who think that we, owing to some circumstances unique to UConn, are somehow exempt from a similar fate, dream on. I think there are a very few programs that enjoy a certain "institutional insulation" from too precipitous a downfall...ND springs to mind...but no one could adequately replace Pat, or Geno, or John Wooden, or a host of other legendary coaches...just the reality of what must eventually be faced.
 

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I don't know why, but this day is called the dreariest of the year. Storrs, being in New England, and so the majority of us, it is hardly news that there is something about New England that makes us, at the height of the Husky's Rule, decide to discuss the replacement of the Ruler. Let anon take care of anon. I'm living large in the Husky present.
 

cockhrnleghrn

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The only dynasty that has continued under several coaches is likely Alabama football and they hired a few duds through the years, too. It's very difficult to follow a legend. It's been difficult on Holly and it will be difficult on whoever follows Geno. The best thing that could happen for you guys is for Chris Dailey to assume the reins for a few years after Geno retires. Bull Guthridge at UNC is a good blueprint for that to happen, as long as you didn't hire Matt Doherty after that. Besides, she's my homegirl. I grew up right outside of New Brunswick.
 

CL82

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At the very least they will be this year's WNIT champions, the question of interest being if that banner will hang from the rafters of their home court. Perhaps one of their supporters frequenting the Boneyard will give us some insight on that. Where will the WNIT trophy be displayed should the Lady Vols win it this year?
The lady's room?
 
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I am one who has previously opined on this forum that, owing to our own vulnerability in the post-Geno world, we UConn fans should go easy on the pleasure derived from the downfall of our old arch-rival. For those who say that we should put our concerns about the distant future aside and just enjoy the current ride as long as we can, well, you are absolutely right. For those who think that we, owing to some circumstances unique to UConn, are somehow exempt from a similar fate, dream on. I think there are a very few programs that enjoy a certain "institutional insulation" from too precipitous a downfall...ND springs to mind...but no one could adequately replace Pat, or Geno, or John Wooden, or a host of other legendary coaches...just the reality of what must eventually be faced.
Or....get it while you can :p
 

toadfoot

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I have watched many Tennessee games this year, and I have to agree with the majority of the Lady Vol fans (at least those who post on Vol Nation) that the problem is the coaching and not the talent. They have something like 7 McDonald's AA on that team! Most UT supporters seem to like the talent and dislike coach Warlick, who they perceive as unable to teach offense and inculcate discipline, is too chummy with the players, and pretty much lets the inmates run the asylum.

That could never happen at UConn. Ever. Yes, there will come a time when there is a drop-off in our talent pool :(, that is inevitable. UConn may not, year in and year out, get the true HS greats like Stewie, Moriah, and Morgan (DT, Maya, Tina, et al), but UConn will continue to get those very good kids who are willing to work harder than anyone else, who want to be champions, who will play relentless defense and unselfish team ball without giving a damn about the stat line- as long as the team wins.

And while I have no idea who will succeed Geno (I vote Sue!), the UConn Women's program, indisputably the greatest in the history of WCBB, will be fine. No dynasty lasts forever- not the Boston Celtics, the NY Yankees, the LA Lakers, Chicago Bulls or Green Bay Packers. And not the UConn Women's Basketball team. Forever simply is not a possibility in the world of sports. But for as long as UConn's magnificent, incredible, dominating, historic run lasts, I will continue to enjoy the hell out of it.

Lady Vol fans may believe they have the talent, but I believe they're mistaken. Russell is the "softest" 6' 6" I've seen in years at any major D1 school. It's now plain to see that her high school performance was due primarily to the fact that she towered over her opposition. DeShields is horrendously overrated. She's a turnover waiting to happen and in terms of scoring efficiency only Briana Pulido has a worse pts/shot ratio. Her 3-pt percentage is worse than every UConn player except Pulido. In fact, every UConn player except Pulido, who has attempted at least one 3-pointer has a better percentage than any UT player.
Their guards are uniformly pedestrian. Granted Cooper is only a freshman and may develop, but as a group they're pretty ordinary.
 

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Here's a quote from the 2nd article that Rocky linked. I agree with all of it except the first sentence - Russell is NOT 'by far the most talented player' on the team...

Mercedes Russell is by far the most talented player and should be the heart of the offense at center. Thursday, she shot 80 percent from the field. So how did she only manage five shots???

And then Bashaara Graves, who is the most experienced of the crew as the only senior starter, only gets five shots while shooting 60 percent???

Meanwhile, players like Te’a Cooper, who shot 1-of-9 from the field, Jaime Nared, who shot 2-of-11 from the field, and Diamond DeShields, who shot 6-of-16 from the field, continue to get the bulk of the shots as under-achievers.

By the way, all of these players were five-star Top 10 recruits.

And speaking of recruiting, Warlick’s mark is nowhere to be found on the recruiting trail this year either. According to ESPN HoopGurlz Recruiting for 2016, Tennessee has all of 0 top 100 recruits. And don’t sell me on youth and limited roster spots when you’ve got two seniors leaving.
 
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