Tennessee topics (merged threads)

[UConnCat]

Don't think Cheating in recruiting applies to UConn this time. I believe Lady Vol fans think OSU Cheated to get Tori McCoy to sign by offering a scholarship to her sister.

I won't even venture to guess what the lady vol writer is talking about. She goes there every season and the kindest word I can use to describe it is irresponsible.

If hiring a recruit's father is not against the NCAA's recruiting rules then player package deals aren't either. Wasn't there talk that DeShields and Cooper were a package deal?

All of the outrage over Doris's comments last night is mostly about deflecting attention away from Tennessee's poor performances.

 

[JellyBean]

It is fair for both to comment on the recruiting. Dawn was probably sticking up for her fellow coach. Sure Tennessee doesn't have a recruit for next year. But I look at the fact that they are only losing 2 seniors, leaves them with 10 players. Move into the 16-17 season, the current roster has a chance to gel and develop their chemistry and the coaching staff can recruit for the following year, 17-18. Doris is like any other media head, they are paid to comment and spark conversation. Nothing wrong with that. Dawn was just having her coaching buddies back. Nothing wrong with that either.

 

[SCGamecock]

It's a "tweet" folks, when somebody makes a statement from their Twitter account it's called a "tweet"... not a twit, or tw*t, twang etc..

But back to the topic.. I didn't particularly think there was anything wrong with Burke's statement but I can also see how a coach (like Dawn) would feel it's inappropriate. To be frank, it probably wasn't just Burke's statement about Tennessee's recruiting that incensed Dawn... it was likely that entire conversation about the "downfall of Tennessee". Regardless of the fact of whether it's true or not, Dawn probably felt it was inappropriate for the media to perpetuate Holly Warlick's demise while the game was being played.

It's easy for us as fans to say yea Doris has the right to say whatever she wants blah blah blah... but from the coaches perspective, what Doris said is probably scathing and doesn't help. Warlick is likely trying her best to right the ship, what Burke said doesn't help that, hence Dawn responding by sticking up for Warlick, a fellow coach.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

My first reaction to Dawn's twit was: isn't SC having some problems on the recruiting end? If so, publically citing recruiting deficiencies might be a habit that Stanley wouldn't like to see sports announcers continue or expand upon. It's no done deal that the Gamecocks are here to stay at the top of WCBB.

If you consider wooing elite transfers to the program, then SC has had no problems with recruiting. But the incoming transfers will be juniors (Davis and Gray), as will Wilson, White, and other top SC players. 2017 is a crucial recruiting class for SC.

 

[EricLA]

dawnstaley Verified account ‏@dawnstaley 15h15 hours ago
I'm one that stays in my lane but to listen to the commentators speak about Tenn and its recruiting class is disturbing. #notcool #SEC

That was Dawn's tweet...

Anyone who thinks Doris' comments were out of bounds is a moron. Plain and simple. She said that "Tennessee has zero (0) recruits in the top 100 for 2016", and I think followed that up with 0 recruits period. None. Tennessee is now 100% healthy. And they have been for several weeks now, but even if they weren't, their "top" players of Graves, Russell, Deshields, Nared, Cooper and Carter are all 100% healthy. To have 6 losses for a team that was preseason 3 or 4 and expected to make the final 4 is HUGE news in WCBB. To point out that they whiffed on their 2 top post prospects for 2016, and in fact got 0 recruits unless they go the JUCO route, is a fact. To whine and complain about it is just silly and a deflection of the performance of Tennessee so far this year.

I hope that what Dawn meant is that it's disturbing that Tennessee's recruiting for 2016 was so awful because it's loony tunes to be criticizing Doris for the comments. Just like it was loony tunes for Pat to hitch herself to the Bruce Pearl wagon back in the day literally just weeks before the wheels fell off and he was fired.

To be honest, it has been very well publicized that Tenn players had a BIG meeting without the coach to try to right the ship, and that the coach has said MANY times in post game pressers that the team does not listen to her. I would say that Doris went VERY EASY on Tennessee because she did not mention these things that are pretty much public knowledge to anyone who follows WCBB.

I wanted to add on edit - I don't see Duke fans screaming that Charlie Creme was blasphemous for predicting that Duke could miss the NCAA tournament this year. And what he said was not fact - just a comment based on the trend of how Duke is playing. What Doris stated was a fact.

 

[vtcwbuff]

Don't think Cheating in recruiting applies to UConn this time. I believe Lady Vol fans think OSU Cheated to get Tori McCoy to sign by offering a scholarship to her sister.

Didn't OSU buy McCoy's mother a condo?

 

[SCGamecock]

My first reaction to Dawn's twit was: isn't SC having some problems on the recruiting end? If so, publically citing recruiting deficiencies might be a habit that Stanley wouldn't like to see sports announcers continue or expand upon. It's no done deal that the Gamecocks are here to stay at the top of WCBB. Certain schools have built-in advantages such as ND, Duke, Stanford with their educational cachet or Maryland with its proximity to DC. And UConn has Geno. Those schools will consistently attract top players. But is SC a magnet for young women wanting to play basketball? I don't think it is yet--and it may never be. Dawn hasn't been around long enough to be labeled a great coach; there are only a few of those. So why go to SC?

It's a pretty good team at a great SEC institution with an overall strong athletic program. 3 hours from Atlanta, 1.5 hours from Charlotte.. less than 10 hours from anywhere in Florida. Gamecock WBB has a hungry hall of fame coach who's had a highly regarded playing career at Virginia, in the WNBA and for USA Basketball.... I'm sure kids can respond to those things.

SC has a great location. The key to our future recruiting rests on Dawn's ability to further establish pipelines to the Atlanta metro, Charlotte metro (NC in general), and Florida.

Theres this unlikely expectation that just because SC had a really strong 2014 class that we're going to light it up every year on the trail. To be frank, we were VERY fortunate with our 2014 class. Dawn will tell you that. Most elite WBB schools don't have the #1 recruit growing up 15 mins away... but still, to expect us to recruit at that level every single year with no championships is absurd.

We did whiff on Caretti (made her final 2), and we did lose McCoy to Ohio State ("lose")... but we have a decent class coming in, 5-star Bradshaw and 4-star Harrigan.. and we still have a shot at 5-star Tyasha Harris.

We're not lighting it up but we're about where we should be recruiting wise..

 

[Gate81]

SC has HUGE attendance. That and Dawn's coaching are its positives in recruiting once you're out past this class and next...
Duke has been able to weather its storm of awful coaching and results (can you say lots of McD AA there too) because of the school's cache alone. Can't wait to hear the announcers if they cover a Duke game.

 

[Orangutan]

In my opinion, Staley should have followed her initial instinct and stayed in her lane. Sorry Dawn, the media's job is not to only talk about the good things with the programs they cover. It would be different if they speculated or perpetuated rumors or anything like that. All they said was that Tennessee signed no one and missed on two elite post recruits. Those are accurate statements of facts. That came after they showed a graphic of Tennessee's win-loss records and recruiting ranks under Holly, so it's not like they brought it up for no reason.

It all went to the larger point of what Burke said all game which is that Tennessee has been doing relatively well under Holly until now. She outright DEFENDED Holly on that basis. But now Tennessee is struggling uncharacteristically on the floor and on the recruiting trail. Is this a fluke or the start of a fall from the ranks of women's college basketball's elite?

On a your usual SEC Network broadcast, they don't talk about the big picture like that. But this is a much bigger potential audience on ESPN2. Burke and O'Brien are broadcasting such that someone who doesn't follow women's basketball can watch it and know the historical context behind the matchup. Notre Dame is a recently-minted perennial contender who is succeeding despite some unexpected circumstances (Loyd departure, Reimer absence, Patberg injury). Tennessee is the former power who began the year with great expectations but is now struggling such that fans are beginning to call for the coach's dismissal. Can Tennessee score a big road win and get back on track? Or will Notre Dame win their 6th straight over the team that won the first 20 matchups in the series. That's the hook to Joe Sixpack who forgot to change the channel after PTI.

Short version - Doris Burke's job is not to serve Holly Warlick. Doris Burke's job is to serve the viewers by telling them the story of the game. Tennessee's lack of a 2016 recruiting class is part of the story of the game.

 

[Carnac]

When Chong was our only recruit three years ago people were saying that UCONN was having trouble recruiting the players that they really wanted. Now we've had two strong years with the Williams-Nurse class and the KLS-Collier class and Dangerfield is on her way. We didn't get Cox, Durr or McCoy when we really wanted them, does that mean that we are having trouble recruiting the players we need?

The answer is (partially anyway) yes, it's harder to recruit now than it was ten years ago. More top schools are taking their women's programs seriously and paying top coaches accordingly. It's not enough to be Duke, Stanford, Tennessee and even UCONN anymore and to expect an outstanding prospect to be "honored" to play at your school.

The landscape is changing and we fortunately have Geno, CD, and 10 Championships to help in our recruiting, but school brand is not enough anymore. There are many attractive options for 17 year-olds to consider. As long as Geno is here those other options come with the prospect of finishing second most often, but playing near home, or within a system that will allow a H.S. star to play immediately, or that will allow "their game" to flourish means something to a lot of kids.

Tennessee is still, and will remain, one of the top programs in America, and if Holly is deposed the line of interested coaching candidates will stretch from Knoxville to the Pacific. Someone will take that job who is a major talent and the Vols will again compete for National Championships.

Hopefully when that happens the culture there will change and the team's fans and followers will learn to concentrate on the performance of their players and not their dislike and distrust of their opponents. Tennessee can hope to recover and achieve what South Carolina has, where Staley has a team that was once (not very long ago) an afterthought, now competing for the big prize.

But first they'll have to find another Dawn or Jeff W. to right the ship, and they will. And when that new coach decides that it is more important to play UCONN (the same way that SC, Stanford, Maryland, and ND have) than it is to protest our existence, then we will go back to marking our calenders and sharpening our knives for those days when we will again play each other in a meaningful game.

But that won't be this year or anytime soon.

Thank you Bonpland. A very insightful and "a matter of fact" observation. I agree 100% with your post.

 

[Rocket009]

dawnstaley Verified account ‏@dawnstaley 15h15 hours ago
I'm one that stays in my lane but to listen to the commentators speak about Tenn and its recruiting class is disturbing. #notcool #SEC

That was Dawn's tweet...

Anyone who thinks Doris' comments were out of bounds is a moron. Plain and simple. She said that "Tennessee has zero (0) recruits in the top 100 for 2016", and I think followed that up with 0 recruits period. None. Tennessee is now 100% healthy. And they have been for several weeks now, but even if they weren't, their "top" players of Graves, Russell, Deshields, Nared, Cooper and Carter are all 100% healthy. To have 6 losses for a team that was preseason 3 or 4 and expected to make the final 4 is HUGE news in WCBB. To point out that they whiffed on their 2 top post prospects for 2016, and in fact got 0 recruits unless they go the JUCO route, is a fact. To whine and complain about it is just silly and a deflection of the performance of Tennessee so far this year.

I hope that what Dawn meant is that it's disturbing that Tennessee's recruiting for 2016 was so awful because it's loony tunes to be criticizing Doris for the comments. Just like it was loony tunes for Pat to hitch herself to the Bruce Pearl wagon back in the day literally just weeks before the wheels fell off and he was fired.

To be honest, it has been very well publicized that Tenn players had a BIG meeting without the coach to try to right the ship, and that the coach has said MANY times in post game pressers that the team does not listen to her. I would say that Doris went VERY EASY on Tennessee because she did not mention these things that are pretty much public knowledge to anyone who follows WCBB.

I wanted to add on edit - I don't see Duke fans screaming that Charlie Creme was blasphemous for predicting that Duke could miss the NCAA tournament this year. And what he said was not fact - just a comment based on the trend of how Duke is playing. What Doris stated was a fact.

One of the points that Doris made was that the TN fans themselves were complaining about the recruiting class. It's not just ESPN's view.

 

[CocoHusky]

I have not heard Doris' comment yet. If the comment was specific to 2016 Tennessee recruit them I would tend to agree that subject should not have come up=piling on IMO. No 2016 recruit could possibly have an impact on the game that was played last night so why bring it up.

 

[CocoHusky]

I have

In my opinion, Staley should have followed her initial instinct and stayed in her lane. Sorry Dawn, the media's job is not to only talk about the good things with the programs they cover. It would be different if they speculated or perpetuated rumors or anything like that. All they said was that Tennessee signed no one and missed on two elite post recruits. Those are accurate statements of facts. That came after they showed a graphic of Tennessee's win-loss records and recruiting ranks under Holly, so it's not like they brought it up for no reason.

It all went to the larger point of what Burke said all game which is that Tennessee has been doing relatively well under Holly until now. She outright DEFENDED Holly on that basis. But now Tennessee is struggling uncharacteristically on the floor and on the recruiting trail. Is this a fluke or the start of a fall from the ranks of women's college basketball's elite?

On a your usual SEC Network broadcast, they don't talk about the big picture like that. But this is a much bigger potential audience on ESPN2. Burke and O'Brien are broadcasting such that someone who doesn't follow women's basketball can watch it and know the historical context behind the matchup. Notre Dame is a recently-minted perennial contender who is succeeding despite some unexpected circumstances (Loyd departure, Reimer absence, Patberg injury). Tennessee is the former power who began the year with great expectations but is now struggling such that fans are beginning to call for the coach's dismissal. Can Tennessee score a big road win and get back on track? Or will Notre Dame win their 6th straight over the team that won the first 20 matchups in the series. That's the hook to Joe Sixpack who forgot to change the channel after PTI.

Short version - Doris Burke's job is not to serve Holly Warlick. Doris Burke's job is to serve the viewers by telling them the story of the game. Tennessee's lack of a 2016 recruiting class is part of the story of the game.

I would have to disagree. These are also accurate statements that did not need to be said during a UCONN vs. ND game. 1) ND missed out on signing KLS. 2) ND missed out on signing Lauren Cox.

 

[Huskies Rule]

wbbfan1:" I believe Lady Vol fans think OSU Cheated to get Tori McCoy to sign by offering a scholarship to her sister."

On top of the McCoy crapola, if we're talking about unsavory behavior, one mustn't forget that OSU's sleazy coach McGuff has a history, previously cutting a foul-smelling deal with Mark Mitchell.

Mark Mitchell was hired as McGuff's assistant coach and then magically, coincidentally, literally hours after that, his daughter Kelsey Mitchell (the highly sought after top 10 recruit) and her sister (not even a top 150 recruit!) signed on the OSU dotted line for full 4-year rides. OSU was willing to give/pay Mitchell serious $$$ (job) and gave the after-thought sister (who by most accounts will never be any kind of player) a scholarship worth well over a hundred grand. All this to get Kelsey Mitchell to play basketball.

Sure sounds like "pay to play" to me.

 

[vtcwbuff]

I just read a funny take on Staley's comments about Burke. On the VN board a poster opined that Staley was supporting Warlick because she wants her to continue coaching UTenn. Similar to those here hoping that Warlick gets a 10 year contract extension.

 

[pinotbear]

Didn't OSU buy McCoy's mother a condo?

.. and then, filled it with handbags...

 

[Orangutan]

I have

I would have to disagree. These are also accurate statements that did not need to be said during a UCONN vs. ND game. 1) ND missed out on signing KLS. 2) ND missed out on signing Lauren Cox.

Well, they were hardly going to talk about ND missing out on KLS when Mabrey2 was going for 20+ and it wouldn't make much sense to talk about losing out on Cox when Boley & Young are in the top 11 of their rankings.

I get what you are saying; every team misses out on recruits. But it is rare and, I think, noteworthy for a top program to sign zero recruits. Maybe that happens if a team already has 12 or 13 on the roster for next year but Tennessee has 10.

I don't think it needed to be said but I don't think it was out of bounds either.

 

[ochoopsfan]

With all of this negative talk about Tennessee, I think this would be a good time to "short" Cracker Barrel Old Country Stores stock. People don't go out to eat that much after a loss, nor when Top 100 recruits no longer come to town.

 

[LadyVols9]

we all know that I am HIGHLY critical of the coaching at TN, but ESPN's agenda of just pushing SO MUCH negativity and speculation about TN was absurd. Even when TN was playing decent (3 of the 4 quarters) they did nothing but continue the pre-game storyline. Doris Burke is so incapable of calling a TN game without personal bias that I don't expect anything else. She was the same way while Parker was at TN. She has a long history. simply put, TN doesn't like Doris and Doris doesn't like TN. Just the reality.

 

[msf22b]

we all know that I am HIGHLY critical of the coaching at TN, but ESPN's agenda of just pushing SO MUCH negativity and speculation about TN was absurd. Even when TN was playing decent (3 of the 4 quarters) they did nothing but continue the pre-game storyline. Doris Burke is so incapable of calling a TN game without personal bias that I don't expect anything else. She was the same way while Parker was at TN. She has a long history. simply put, TN doesn't like Doris and Doris doesn't like TN. Just the reality.

I was with you for the first sentence or two but lost you when it got to vendetta accusations and imagine you will lose the board on this one.

But as you correctly surmise, this was a pre-game storyline; Doris was just the messenger; You're going to have to climb higher into the ESPN hierarchy to find the culprit.

As a member of your board noted and I mentioned here; ESPN has a right to be PO-ed, UTenn's collapse is bad for business.

 

[HGN]

Actually , I am glad to see her saying something controversial about another team rather than the Huskies.

 

[Zorro]

Doris is never going to win Miss Congeniality on the BY either, LV9. She and Sally Bell are two of the few things that Vols and Huskies agree on.

 

[UcMiami]

we all know that I am HIGHLY critical of the coaching at TN, but ESPN's agenda of just pushing SO MUCH negativity and speculation about TN was absurd. Even when TN was playing decent (3 of the 4 quarters) they did nothing but continue the pre-game storyline. Doris Burke is so incapable of calling a TN game without personal bias that I don't expect anything else. She was the same way while Parker was at TN. She has a long history. simply put, TN doesn't like Doris and Doris doesn't like TN. Just the reality.

Can I join the club - I find the mute button and use it almost the whole game when either Burke or Peck are calling games. I didn't hear enough of the call of the game to comment, but if it was the usual 'I have this one story line that either I or someone in research has prepared for the game, and I will flog it to death regardless of what is happening in the game. One sometimes wonders if she is actually at the game with the lack of attention to the actual action.

 

[ThisJustIn]

Short version - Doris Burke's job is not to serve Holly Warlick. Doris Burke's job is to serve the viewers by telling them the story of the game. Tennessee's lack of a 2016 recruiting class is part of the story of the game.

To add on - it's still a small, tight world in the NCAA (w & m): Sometimes folks think you need to "help the game" by being polite and/or keeping quiet. Sometimes, actually, that's true. In this case, the stories have already been written, so Doris was speaking on the record about things that were already on the record.

It's never comfortable to hear your program being examined in a negative light on national TV. Folks get sensitive. And they assume you have an agenda (and sometimes you do, and sometimes you don't).

It's ALSO risky for the broadcaster (and the writer). These folks are friends/colleagues with long histories. Sometimes folks can't separate the personal and professional. It can be hard. You can get shut out (ask Mechelle V.), which can be painful and backfire - there ain't that many in the media who know a lot about women's basketball. You'll either get no press, a rookie or a ticked off writer who was moved off the men's game to cover you... not really a recipe for program growth.

Before someone starts pulling out the "This is the big leagues, grow some" pap, if you think this doesn't happen on the men's side, you don't pay attention...

 

[TheGOAT23]

Can I join the club - I find the mute button and use it almost the whole game when either Burke or Peck are calling games. I didn't hear enough of the call of the game to comment, but if it was the usual 'I have this one story line that either I or someone in research has prepared for the game, and I will flog it to death regardless of what is happening in the game. One sometimes wonders if she is actually at the game with the lack of attention to the actual action.

Exactly, UcMiami. My coworker and her dad use the mute button when [Burke] is calling the game.