OT - NBA off-season thread

[champs99and04]

I think the huge plus about doing it the way they are is that it makes Boston a hell of a lot more attractive to free agents than it would be otherwise (tanking). They can see a stable front office, top shelf coaching situation, and solid team dynamics. That's a lot better than jumping on a sank ship, hoping for it to be resurrected.

The other part of me says that no star free agent ever wants to sign in Boston (no Horford and Hayward don't count), which means you gotta do it through the draft or trade. The last time it was a sank ship in '07, Danny flipped his assets - which weren't what they are now - into a title team overnight. I've long suspected that Danny's goal all along has been to do the same thing this time, but I think he's smart enough to where if nothing crops up, he'll say the hell with it, let's just build the old-fashioned way.

 

[Mr. French]

I would take Bradley over Hayward straight up. I don't agree with a single thing the Celtics have done this off-season.

Oof!

 

[intlzncster]

The other part of me says that no star free agent ever wants to sign in Boston (no Horford and Hayward don't count), which means you gotta do it through the draft or trade. The last time it was a sank ship in '07, Danny flipped his assets - which weren't what they are now - into a title team overnight. I've long suspected that Danny's goal all along has been to do the same thing this time, but I think he's smart enough to where if nothing crops up, he'll say the hell with it, let's just build the old-fashioned way.

Maybe, but how many truly star free agents are on the market every year? It's really not a large sample.

 

[awfuldan]

LA vs. Los Angeles - Box Score - July 7, 2017 - ESPN

Lonzo struggled in his debut. 5 points on 2 of 15 shooting (1 of 11 from 3).

Compare that with Fultz and Tatum, who have both been really impressive.

 

[champs99and04]

Maybe, but how many truly star free agents are on the market every year? It's really not a large sample.

You're right, but I think the perception is strong enough at this point that there's at least some truth to it. Way I see it, you have your destination cities and then the others, and most of the former are going to be warmer climates. Even New York and Chicago don't seem to kill it in free agency.

(Incidentally, I wonder if the persisting power imbalance between conferences could have something to do with weather).

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Hayward is probably slightly better overall. He might be a better fit for this particular Boston team - since they were offensively challenged last year - than Bradley, the major distinction being that Hayward can get his own shot and Bradley can't.

But if I'm trying to build a title team from scratch, I think I would take Bradley. If he's the third best player on your team, I would take Bradley because he needs the ball less than Hayward (not saying Hayward can't be effective off the ball, but if he's not going to be a high usage player, his impact is marginalized a bit).

And Boston is one of the few teams in the league that kind of has the luxury of building from scratch, no? Maybe Anthony Davis isn't available today or tomorrow, but if I'm them I'd rather pay Bradley, maintain their other cheap contracts, and let the young guys develop on rosters that aren't going to be as good right away but have less of a dead end vibe to them. Building around Isaiah, Hayward, and Horford seems like a dead end.

Hayward is a lot better than Bradley statistical, especially when you look at the advanced stats, and he was the focus of the opposing defenses. Hayward was exactly what the Celtics needed. I think this was a great pickup, and I am not a Celtics fan.

 

[Dogdeacon]

You're right, but I think the perception is strong enough at this point that there's at least some truth to it. Way I see it, you have your destination cities and then the others, and most of the former are going to be warmer climates. Even New York and Chicago don't seem to kill it in free agency.

(Incidentally, I wonder if the persisting power imbalance between conferences could have something to do with weather).

You can't possibly say that when the Celtics got the #1 free agent that switched teams this year and #2 last year. Yeah they 'lost' KD to GSW but Lakers didn't get a meeting. It's all about team quality not city size & warmth (Milsap went from larger warm to smaller cold, CP3 from LA to Houston - endorsement losses > tax savings). Plus moot point as Cs are at cap now so no more free agent signings unless they trade.

 

[intlzncster]

Way I see it, you have your destination cities and then the others, and most of the former are going to be warmer climates. Even New York and Chicago don't seem to kill it in free agency. (Incidentally, I wonder if the persisting power imbalance between conferences could have something to do with weather).

That's a real interesting concept. I've always believed in the 'city draw' thing, as far as basketball goes, but never took it a step further. Which is why having a 'super team' in Cleveland is so amazing (thanks LeBron).

Don't entirely agree on NYC though. It has that same draw for the players I think, but nothing can overcome being owned and run by James Dolan.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Decent game shooting-wise for DHam Thursday, has got to bring the TOs down though

Charlotte still has yet to play Monk at all AFAIK

Didn't watch Ball's debut yesterday but based on the box score it seems he was fairly... underwhelming.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

The Hardaway deal is another in a long line of boneheaded cap moves by the Knicks front office. Is Allan Houston off the payroll yet?

Hardaway would be a respectable 4 year, $40 million player, and in context, the Knicks paying an average player borderline all-star money is not that bad by their standards.

 

[intlzncster]

The Hardaway deal is another in a long line of boneheaded cap moves by the Knicks front office. Is Allan Houston off the payroll yet?

No but I believe they are still paying for Bobby Bonilla.

 

[intlzncster]

Charlotte still has yet to play Monk at all AFAIK

Ankle injury

 

[champs99and04]

Jordan Bell in summer league today:

5 points (2/2), 11 rebounds, 5 assists, 5 steals, 6 blocks, +27

Dude is a fascinating player.

 

[Walker11]

I don't really understand locking the other thread so I guess we move the convo to here.

Another very, very good game for Ball, and he was actually efficient, before leaving with a minor injury. I expect him and Smith Jr. to be the front runners for ROY. Kyle Kuzma has been extremely impressive but I am having a difficult time processing him because of how well Lonzo sets him up (Kuzma was one of the random late Spring 3* players that appeared on our radar after presumably missing out on top options).The full court passes are reminiscent of K Love, albeit with a different style. Guys like Ingram and Randle are going to be adding an additional 6 points to their per game average because of the throw ahead.

Jordan Bell in summer league today:

5 points (2/2), 11 rebounds, 5 assists, 5 steals, 6 blocks, +27

Dude is a fascinating player.

This one was so easy to see, wasn't it? Even in the pre-draft threads, Bell was the runaway answer for best sleeper. I cannot understand how he fell, and to fall to the Dubs out of all teams. The Bulls FO should be ashamed for selling this pick to save a few million bucks.

And FWIW, I think Crawford is still a solid pick-up off the bench, and it did seem like top teams had interest, but he would have likely been looking at the minimum and/or playing a much lesser role, especially with the Warriors. He is good as a microwave type player off the bench, even at his advanced age. If he has it that night, let him rip, if not, keep 'em on the bench. He is also possibly my favorite player in the League to watch when "on" and has my #1 sleeper hoops shoe so I am biased. The efficiency isn't great in a vacuum, but is actually fine when you consider the efficiency of putrid 2nd units. Creating good looks is a skill and one that Crawford has. I am also probably somewhere in the middle of Niels and Warrior on the Wiggins talk. Wiggins is actually not liked by the NBA head community. I don't think he is going to be future top 15 player in the NBA. He is one of those guys who does not seem to play with even half of his athleticism. He is not creating for others and is not impacting the game, besides scoring. I don't really see him making a huge jump in his career as a playmaker - it is not in his DNA, IMO, but he has made a lot of strides offensively last season, especially as the ball handler on PNR's. His value is going to come down to defense. He has all the tools in the world and if he can become a plus defender, he is going to be a very, very valuable player. Think of how valuable wings are who can do nothing but play D and shoot corner 3's. His defensive awareness has a long, long way to go so we shall see.

 

[superjohn]

Jordan Bell in summer league today:

5 points (2/2), 11 rebounds, 5 assists, 5 steals, 6 blocks, +27

Dude is a fascinating player.

I love Jordan Bell, would have been a Husky if we weren't worried about grades after the APR nonsense.

 

[Walker11]

This is not a normal NBA skill. The instinct to immediately process the entire court and the ability to drop a pinpoint perfect full-court pass. Wow

 

[superjohn]

This is not a normal NBA skill. The instinct to immediately process the entire court and the ability to drop a pinpoint perfect full-court pass. Wow

Ainge is a schmuck for not taking him.

 

[navery12]

This is not a normal NBA skill. The instinct to immediately process the entire court and the ability to drop a pinpoint perfect full-court pass. Wow

I'm sure he's had years of practice making that pass to LaMelo waiting on the other side of the court for his 90 points. In all seriousness though, that's an incredible skill to have, his vision is ridiculous

 

[UConn990411]

Ainge is a schmuck for not taking him.

Ainge but not Philly?

But yeah, you definitely don't hate Boston teams (even though you find every slight opening to trash the city and its teams.)

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Ainge is a schmuck for not taking him.

Ha. God your shtick is tired.

 

[superjohn]

Ainge but not Philly?

But yeah, you definitely don't hate Boston teams (even though you find every slight opening to trash the city and its teams.)

What???? The Celtics had the #1 draft pick, I've stated over and over Ball is hands down the best player in the draft, you take the best player every time.

I've also stated a million times that I dislike the Patriots and Red Sox but like the Celtics. In fact Ainge was one of my favorite players growing up, sick athlete.

Major fail of a post on your part.

 

[superjohn]

Ha. God your shtick is tired.

What schtick would that be? That Lonzo Ball is hands down the best player in the draft?

 

[champs99and04]

I'm going to pump the brakes on declaring Ball the best player in the draft - and I know you've been saying this all along - on the basis of a summer league where he's shot the ball poorly.

Michael Carter-Williams put up these sort of numbers...in the NBA. So I'm going to remain skeptical on Ball.

 

[Deleted at users request]

I'm going to pump the brakes on declaring Ball the best player in the draft - and I know you've been saying this all along - on the basis of a summer league where he's shot the ball poorly.

Michael Carter-Williams put up these sort of numbers...in the NBA. So I'm going to remain skeptical on Ball.

Michael Carter Williams didn't have close to the jump shot or vision Lonzo has. His jump shot is funky but it's effective.

Lonzo IMO is truly going to be a generational type of player. He knows how to play winning basketball and his unselfishness and willingness to make his teammates look good will draw talent to come play with him. Having a 6'6 PG who knows how to move the ball and play without it too is just so dangerous. This game is about matchups and he is a mismatch for opposing shorter guards. He's going to be scary as he gets stronger and his scoring improves.

 

[intlzncster]

Michael Carter Williams didn't have close to the jump shot or vision Lonzo has. His jump shot is funky but it's effective.

Lonzo IMO is truly going to be a generational type of player. He knows how to play winning basketball and his unselfishness and willingness to make his teammates look good will draw talent to come play with him. Having a 6'6 PG who knows how to move the ball and play without it too is just so dangerous. This game is about matchups and he is a mismatch for opposing shorter guards. He's going to be scary as he gets stronger and his scoring improves.

dude, it's summer league. Most of the guys he's playing against aren't that great, or are raw . Wait until he has real defenders, with a real team defense in front of him.

He's a great passer, everybody knew that already. Let's see if the rest of his game can measure out when real ball (ahem) starts.

 

[polycom]

Lonzo Ball needs a pull up jump shot or that passing isn't to work with the way defense is played in the NBA...

 

[Deleted at users request]

dude, it's summer league. Most of the guys he's playing against aren't that great, or are raw . Wait until he has real defenders, with a real team defense in front of him.

He's a great passer, everybody knew that already. Let's see if the rest of his game can measure out when real ball (ahem) starts.

It definitely is summer league. But even the best of stars struggled in it. The biggest thing I've taken out of it is how easy the guys around him are scoring. He had 10 assists by halftime yesterday. Makes the game seem effortless.

 

[intlzncster]

It definitely is summer league. But even the best of stars struggled in it. The biggest thing I've taken out of it is how easy the guys around him are scoring. He had 10 assists by halftime yesterday. Makes the game seem effortless.

But that's the thing, preseason doesn't mean anything one way or another. It's like Spring Training; a perennial .300 40 hr guy might struggle out of the gate, but when the bright lights are on, they crush it.

The way I look at it, Lonzo, who does have incredible vision and passing skills, is uniquely suited to carving up summer league, where guys are raw, less skilled/disciplined defensively, or maybe not quite the same elite athletes. I mean, team defense isn't all that prevalent. Guys don't know what they are doing as much. So, someone with those skills to carve up a (weak) D, can ball out.

I'm not saying he's crap, just that I don't think summer league is a good measure of how he's going to be going forward.

 

[superjohn]

I'm going to pump the brakes on declaring Ball the best player in the draft - and I know you've been saying this all along - on the basis of a summer league where he's shot the ball poorly.

Michael Carter-Williams put up these sort of numbers...in the NBA. So I'm going to remain skeptical on Ball.

You realize I'm not basing any of this off of summer league, right?

 

[Deleted at users request]

But that's the thing, preseason doesn't mean anything one way or another. It's like Spring Training; a perennial .300 40 hr guy might struggle out of the gate, but when the bright lights are on, they crush it.

The way I look at it, Lonzo, who does have incredible vision and passing skills, is uniquely suited to carving up summer league, where guys are raw, less skilled/disciplined defensively, or maybe not quite the same elite athletes. I mean, team defense isn't all that prevalent. Guys don't know what they are doing as much. So, someone with those skills to carve up a (weak) D, can ball out.

I'm not saying he's crap, just that I don't think summer league is a good measure of how he's going to be going forward.

That's a great point. His high IQ can make it easy against this type of competition. I'll be looking forward to see how it translates. I think he can be a 15 and 8 guy this year.