OT - NBA off-season thread

[bballgrda]

That's right, people forget that it is cumulative and like attracting KG, the better the Celtics get the more opportunities to further improve. Hayward might not have come to last year's team. Taking out Warriors and Cavs the Celtics are now as good as anyone else in the NBA and via next year's draft (last positional need is a big man) the Celtics will stay that way past LeBron's prime. If as HHawks says someone else emerges as a superstar they vault into Warriors/Cavs territory with multiple superstars. The fact that the Celtics have done that at 100M in salaries vs 125-135 for other top teams (Warriors, Raptors, Spurs, Cavs) and more high draft picks is very promising.

Or look at it this way, everyone knew it'd be GSW v Cavs in the 2017 finals and the entire playoffs were anti-climactic. Next season conference finals of Houston vs GSW and Cavs v Celtics is much more compelling.

I wouldn't be so quick to count the Thunder and Spurs out. They are on that same 2nd tier.

 

[UConn990411]

Not really a hot take even. Hayward became overrated in a hurry and signing him does nothing other than locking the Celts into being the 4th-6th best team in the league for the next few years (unless there's a Davis trade coming, which there isn't).

I love how people are acting like this is a bad thing.

The Celtics are locked into being a really good team for the next several years, and they have a number of pieces at their disposal to get better. Whether it be developing their own talent (Brown, Tatum, etc.) or using their assets to make a trade, they have the pieces to get there if things break right.

Hayward ensures they'll have a really good, versatile player at the 3, and he's likely going to be off the books by the time the Celtics need the cap space to re-sign their young players.

 

[Mr. French]

I think people in this thread are now underrating Hayward.

 

[nomar]

Not really a hot take even. Hayward became overrated in a hurry and signing him does nothing other than locking the Celts into being the 4th-6th best team in the league for the next few years (unless there's a Davis trade coming, which there isn't).

I think "in the league" is a lot less important than "in the Eastern Conference." They are set up to the best in the EC, after this coming season or the next, for years to come. And I don't know why you say "locked in." That supposes the Celts can't make any moves or draft an Ayton/Porter who turns into a monster. Betting on the draft is risky, obviously, but next year is the deepest big man draft in history.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I wouldn't be so quick to count the Thunder and Spurs out. They are on that same 2nd tier.

I agree, not counting them out, but in the West it'll be the Warriors vs Houston (say 60%) or Spurs 25%, Thunder 10% or other. In East its LeBron's vs Celtics 40% or Raptors 30% or Wiz 15% (maybe too high, not sure plan B after losing Otto) or Milwaukee 10% or someone else. Raptors v Celtics would have been a good series this year with edge to Raptors, would be a great series next year with edge to Celtics.

 

[Dogdeacon]

You need an all time stud to win a title though. Look at every single NBA champion besides the 04 Pistons and there's at least 1 inner circle, top 20-25 player of all time on those teams.

You have too many top-25 players if you go back even to the early 70's (besides Pistons 79 Supersonics & 75 Warriors definitely no), but I get your point and its generally valid. But that doesn't mean you trade everything for Porzingis or Anthony Davis cuz clearly that isn't working. Plus there is confirmation bias at work here with the NBA championship being the way we anoint the very best players. Kawhi, Dirk, Dwyane Wade, Isaiah Thomas I aren't on the top-25ish list if they don't win.

The context to evaluate the Celtics, a lucky-to-be conference runner-up team signing a good free agent is not to weigh them versus every NBA championship team. They are building towards it like the Rockets or Thunder (Thunder have more SUPERSTAR power than Celtics but no one would give them better odds than Celtics to win 18 title) or Timberwolves are and all 4 made BIG offseason moves that help. All can't win, but all can try and that makes it interesting and competitive. And the Celtics purposefully blew it up after the 2013 season, yet 4!! years later are again knocking on the door.

 

[superjohn]

You have too many top-25 players if you go back even to the early 70's (besides Pistons 79 Supersonics & 75 Warriors definitely no), but I get your point and its generally valid. But that doesn't mean you trade everything for Porzingis or Anthony Davis cuz clearly that isn't working. Plus there is confirmation bias at work here with the NBA championship being the way we anoint the very best players. Kawhi, Dirk, Dwyane Wade, Isaiah Thomas I aren't on the top-25ish list if they don't win.

The context to evaluate the Celtics, a lucky-to-be conference runner-up team signing a good free agent is not to weigh them versus every NBA championship team. They are building towards it like the Rockets or Thunder (Thunder have more SUPERSTAR power than Celtics but no one would give them better odds than Celtics to win 18 title) or Timberwolves are and all 4 made BIG offseason moves that help. All can't win, but all can try and that makes it interesting and competitive. And the Celtics purposefully blew it up after the 2013 season, yet 4!! years later are again knocking on the door.

I love Kawhi but he isn't close to a top 25 all-time player.

 

[superjohn]

Were they the second best team in the East? I would have had Toronto ahead of them, and honestly, I think coaching was the only thing separating them from a team like the Hornets (and that's a testament to Brad more than it is a dig at Clifford) with Dwight now in the fold.

Now I think they're definitively the second best team in the East (Washington and Milwaukee also had arguments) and closer to Cleveland's zip code. They didn't give up any of their "assets" to acquire him, either.

But it's still a weird team. I would have traded Isaiah Thomas yesterday, and Horford is set to make a lot of money over the next three seasons for a player who was limited athletically at his peak (good player, got exposed by Cleveland) and unlikely to be particularly useful providing resistance to LeBron. Crowder was a lame duck before they signed Hayward. Hell, he was a lame duck before they drafted Tatum. That's going to be all sorts of confusing to figure out at the wing - it's great to hear about how beneficial it is for young players to be on a good team, but at some point they need to actually play. There's a legitimate logjam there now.

Avery Bradley is the one guy on that roster I really, really like. If I were the Celtics, I'd be negotiating like hell with him right now to try to extend him at less than the max. He's good enough now to not compromise your efforts to build a contender and young enough still that he'd jive with the long-term plan of peaking post-LeBron. Thomas and Hortford don't fit so neatly into those plans.

Avery Bradley is a good player but will he ever make that leap as a player? He just seems like he'll always be that undersized 2 guard who plays great D but has no jumper.

As for the Celtics they are clearly the second best in the East but where does that put you in the West, around 10th?

 

[JSM1970]

10th? Huh?

GSW, and they can compete with anyone after that

Who are the 9 better teams?

Avery Bradley is a good player but will he ever make that leap as a player? He just seems like he'll always be that undersized 2 guard who plays great D but has no jumper.

As for the Celtics they are clearly the second best in the East but where does that put you in the West, around 10th?

 

[superjohn]

10th? Huh?

GSW, and they can compete with anyone after that

Who are the 9 better teams?

I was exagerrating a little but the East is atrocious compared to the West. The West has been much better for going on 15 years but now it's just a joke. 23 of the top 30 players in the league all play in the West. Outside of Cleveland the East basically looks like the minor leagues.

 

[husky429]

I was exagerrating a little but the East is atrocious compared to the West. The West has been much better for going on 15 years but now it's just a joke. 23 of the top 30 players in the league all play in the West. Outside of Cleveland the East basically looks like the minor leagues.

Why is that though? Is it people avoiding LeBron for the last 10 years? Happenstance?

IF I were a young talented player right now, id be heading to the east. LeBron doesn't have that many years left in him, and the warriors are a brick wall right now.

I really have no idea; I don't follow NBA much other than watching the Celtics.

 

[JSM1970]

I think the West has better top players and a crazy super team with the Dubs

Cavs, C's, Wiz, Toronto are as good as any other West team, maybe better

West is a total joke beyond the Dubs

I was exagerrating a little but the East is atrocious compared to the West. The West has been much better for going on 15 years but now it's just a joke. 23 of the top 30 players in the league all play in the West. Outside of Cleveland the East basically looks like the minor leagues.

 

[UConn990411]

Avery Bradley is a good player but will he ever make that leap as a player? He just seems like he'll always be that undersized 2 guard who plays great D but has no jumper.

As for the Celtics they are clearly the second best in the East but where does that put you in the West, around 10th?

He's had a jumper for years now.

 

[superjohn]

Why is that though? Is it people avoiding LeBron for the last 10 years? Happenstance?

IF I were a young talented player right now, id be heading to the east. LeBron doesn't have that many years left in him, and the warriors are a brick wall right now.

I really have no idea; I don't follow NBA much other than watching the Celtics.

There are several factors but the biggest is horrible ownership in the East.

 

[superjohn]

I think the West has better top players and a crazy super team with the Dubs

Cavs, C's, Wiz, Toronto are as good as any other West team, maybe better

West is a total joke beyond the Dubs

Nobody could possibly be this stupid, your troll game is beyond tired.

 

[Walker11]

West is a total joke beyond the Dubs

I am disappointed, shocked, alarmed, etc. in your utter stupidity. East falls off a cliff after 5. The West will have a 45 win team miss the playoffs. Try again

 

[JSM1970]

No, please, what West team beyond Dubs is better than the top 4 East teams?

Spurs, no way
OKC, nope
Houston, no
Clips, that's funny

Your dumb comments are ridiculous, and you call me a troll? You're a joke clown at times

Nobody could possibly be this stupid, your troll game is beyond tired.

 

[awfuldan]

Sources: Celtics working on Hayward cap room

Celtics are gonna lose either Smart, Crowder, or Bradley to make room for Hayward. Possibly even two of the three.

 

[JSM1970]

They should be looking to move Jaylen Brown, he's awful, but some in league like his athleticism, so might be able to get more assets back

Sources: Celtics working on Hayward cap room

Celtics are gonna lose either Smart, Crowder, or Bradley to make room for Hayward. Possibly even two of the three.

 

[ihatepants]

No, please, what West team beyond Dubs is better than the top 4 East teams?

Spurs, no way
OKC, nope
Houston, no
Clips, that's funny

Your dumb comments are ridiculous, and you call me a troll? You're a joke clown at times

As much as I dislike Bill Simmons at times, he just tweeted today that OKC would be a 7 or 8 seed in the West but a 3 seed if they were in the East. He's not exactly wrong. I would even say OKC could be as high as a 4 seed in the West this year because they've improved their team a ton from last year.

 

[JSM1970]

No way, there is a crazy bias towards the West

4 of the 5!best teams in the League are in the East, problem is none can beat the Dubs so somehow the West is considered dominant even though the only team they lost a game to or were remotely challenged in the playoffs was an Eastern team

As much as I dislike Bill Simmons at times, he just tweeted today that OKC would be a 7 or 8 seed in the West but a 3 seed if they were in the East. He's not exactly wrong. I would even say OKC could be as high as a 4 seed in the West this year because they've improved their team a ton from last year.

 

[JSM1970]

Hamilton 1-10 in Monday's game and 5-15 in Tues game, DNP today

He's a brutally bad shooter, tons of TOs too. I wonder if they've given up on him and wanted to see other players

 

[Walker11]

No way, there is a crazy bias towards the West

4 of the 5!best teams in the League are in the East, problem is none can beat the Dubs so somehow the West is considered dominant even though the only team they lost a game to or were remotely challenged in the playoffs was an Eastern team

There is something called a regular season record. Check it out sometime. Unless you are arguing that all the Eastern "big guns" are saving their juice for the post-season. And the West was Plus 42 versus the East in totality, even with 2/3 of the biggest "tankers."

I don't even know why I am bothering to respond to you. Such a tiny, tiny brain.

 

[JSM1970]

I'm saying the West is so overrated beyond the Dubs, and it is

I agree it's deeper overall, but my statement is the East has the best teams 2-5, I don't see a team other than Houston that can possibly be in that group. Spurs will take a huge step back this year. Manu gone, LA, Tyler Phommachanh, Danny Green old & slow

There is something called a regular season record. Check it out sometime. Unless you are arguing that all the Eastern "big guns" are saving their juice for the post-season. And the West was Plus 42 versus the East in totality, even with 2/3 of the biggest "tankers."

I don't even know why I am bothering to respond to you. Such a tiny, tiny brain.

 

[NielsisGood]

I think people in this thread are now underrating Hayward.

How so? He's something like the 25th best player in the league but realistically a 3rd option for a team with serious aspirations of beating GSW or the Cavs.