OT - NBA off-season thread

[JSM1970]

I would have preferred AB longer term, but they probably knew they weren't paying him next offseason

It's a stupid move. I'm pissed. Freakin Ainge sometimes overthinks things. Get rid of Smart. Bradley >> Smart. Just stupid.

 

[intlzncster]

hahaha

And he signed the offer sheet of course.

 

[superjohn]

Clippers just signed Milos Teodosic, he's one of the best passers ever. Wish he came over years ago but glad he's finally here.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

It's a stupid move. I'm pissed. Freakin Ainge sometimes overthinks things. Get rid of Smart. Bradley >> Smart. Just stupid.

I agree. AB was my favorite Celtic. Hes definitely better much better than Smart. But they probably couldn't get a guy like Morris for Smart. Also Smart ins't going to command a near max deal like AB will next year. I've read that Bradley is going to get close to $25MM a year, so they cant afford him.

Morris for $4.6MM a year is good value. Would much rather see Smart and Crowder (what are they going to do with him?) go than AB. But the money wasn't going to work out.

 

[intlzncster]

I agree. AB was my favorite Celtic. Hes definitely better much better than Smart. But they probably couldn't get a guy like Morris for Smart. Also Smart ins't going to command a near max deal like AB will next year. I've read that Bradley is going to get close to $25MM a year, so they cant afford him.

Morris for $4.6MM a year is good value. Would much rather see Smart and Crowder (what are they going to do with him?) go than AB. But the money wasn't going to work out.

So they have Morris, Crowder, Jalen, Tatum, and Hayward log jamming up the joint. Horford and noone at the 5. I get that in the modern NBA, you can easily play multiples of these guys at the same time.

But I'd rather have this problem at the guard slot. atm, They've got IT, Smart, Rozier, and Demetrius Jackson, Kadeem Allen at as the guards. WTF

I don't pretend to be an NBA expert, so this is just my uneducated opinion. I'm just unhappy.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

So they have Morris, Crowder, Jalen, Tatum, and Hayward log jamming up the joint. Horford and noone at the 5. I get that in the modern NBA, you can easily play multiples of these guys at the same time.

But I'd rather have this problem at the guard slot. atm, They've got IT, Smart, Rozier, and Demetrius Jackson, Kadeem Allen at as the guards. WTF

I don't pretend to be an NBA expert, so this is just my uneducated opinion. I'm just unhappy.

I'm not disagreeing with you. Maybe this move is part of a future trade? Although I don't see them moving Morris with his contract. Not going to find many guys who can score 15 a game at under $5MM a year.

Agree they are full at the wing and light at the guard. IT cant defend. Smart cant shoot. Rozier is still raw. None of them are taller than 6'2.

Maybe Hayward plays the 2? They definitely need to add another guard.

 

[champs99and04]

I would take Bradley over Hayward straight up. I don't agree with a single thing the Celtics have done this off-season.

 

[Lefty2one]

Didn't take long for the Knicks to make yet another stupid move. No idea what they're thinking with that Hardaway Jr signing.

 

[UConn990411]

I would take Bradley over Hayward straight up. I don't agree with a single thing the Celtics have done this off-season.

Haha, come on.

Bradley is terrific, but he was never going to be extended after next season. They were able to get a useful player in Morris for two years, while preserving cap space to sign another veteran.

Hayward isn't a huge upgrade over Bradley, but he definitely is one, and he provides a much-needed scoring threat. Even better, you can count on him being healthy throughout the season.

 

[Dogdeacon]

It's a stupid move. I'm pissed. Freakin Ainge sometimes overthinks things. Get rid of Smart. Bradley >> Smart. Just stupid.

I don't think it's overthinking more over anticipating. Agree AB > Smart, but Smart is definitely more versatile. Somehow despite lots of positionless players the Celtics have no SG and no C. Bottom line I guess is they weren't or couldn't resign both AB & Isiaih next year so we lose AB a year early. I'd start Brown at SG to hasten his development and because Smart is an inconsistent shooter at best.

 

[champs99and04]

Haha, come on.

Bradley is terrific, but he was never going to be extended after next season. They were able to get a useful player in Morris for two years, while preserving cap space to sign another veteran.

Hayward isn't a huge upgrade over Bradley, but he definitely is one, and he provides a much-needed scoring threat. Even better, you can count on him being healthy throughout the season.

Hayward is probably slightly better overall. He might be a better fit for this particular Boston team - since they were offensively challenged last year - than Bradley, the major distinction being that Hayward can get his own shot and Bradley can't.

But if I'm trying to build a title team from scratch, I think I would take Bradley. If he's the third best player on your team, I would take Bradley because he needs the ball less than Hayward (not saying Hayward can't be effective off the ball, but if he's not going to be a high usage player, his impact is marginalized a bit).

And Boston is one of the few teams in the league that kind of has the luxury of building from scratch, no? Maybe Anthony Davis isn't available today or tomorrow, but if I'm them I'd rather pay Bradley, maintain their other cheap contracts, and let the young guys develop on rosters that aren't going to be as good right away but have less of a dead end vibe to them. Building around Isaiah, Hayward, and Horford seems like a dead end.

 

[UConn990411]

Hayward is probably slightly better overall. He might be a better fit for this particular Boston team - since they were offensively challenged last year - than Bradley, the major distinction being that Hayward can get his own shot and Bradley can't.

But if I'm trying to build a title team from scratch, I think I would take Bradley. If he's the third best player on your team, I would take Bradley because he needs the ball less than Hayward (not saying Hayward can't be effective off the ball, but if he's not going to be a high usage player, his impact is marginalized a bit).

And Boston is one of the few teams in the league that kind of has the luxury of building from scratch, no? Maybe Anthony Davis isn't available today or tomorrow, but if I'm them I'd rather pay Bradley, maintain their other cheap contracts, and let the young guys develop on rosters that aren't going to be as good right away but have less of a dead end vibe to them. Building around Isaiah, Hayward, and Horford seems like a dead end.

It's not a dead end when you have Brown, Tatum, and potentially two top picks next year to include in your rebuild. If any of those players developed, you're in business. And it's not like Horford, Hayward, or IT will be under contract forever.

I love Bradley, but the guy can never stay healthy. Re-signing an injury-prone, under-sized shooting guard to a long-term contract seems like more of a dead end to me.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Hayward is probably slightly better overall. He might be a better fit for this particular Boston team - since they were offensively challenged last year - than Bradley, the major distinction being that Hayward can get his own shot and Bradley can't.

But if I'm trying to build a title team from scratch, I think I would take Bradley. If he's the third best player on your team, I would take Bradley because he needs the ball less than Hayward (not saying Hayward can't be effective off the ball, but if he's not going to be a high usage player, his impact is marginalized a bit).

And Boston is one of the few teams in the league that kind of has the luxury of building from scratch, no? Maybe Anthony Davis isn't available today or tomorrow, but if I'm them I'd rather pay Bradley, maintain their other cheap contracts, and let the young guys develop on rosters that aren't going to be as good right away but have less of a dead end vibe to them. Building around Isaiah, Hayward, and Horford seems like a dead end.

Hayward is a lot better than AB, look at any rankings & its obvious even before accounting for injury history. I love Bradley and really enjoyed watching him develop, he does the little things, tries hard, plays great D & finishes plays, but thinking that AB can be the 3rd best guy on championship team is a huge leap. Bradley showed he can compete and warrants PT in competitive playoff series, but I see either AB or Smart as ideal 5th guys, or 6th man on championship team.

The big problem with the series of moves is now all of Boston's guard value lies in Isaiah. Whereas they could have had Fultz & Isaiah with Hayward, JBrown/Crowder & Horford now they are still small upfront and only have one high value guard. If Isaiah is hurt, doesn't re-up or drops off they are back looking for quality guards in next year's draft. I.e. if the series of moves was reversed and first they traded AB, then they signed Hayward as a free agent, you'd think it'd be nuts to pass on the guard prospect and draft another SF.

 

[champs99and04]

It's not a dead end when you have Brown, Tatum, and potentially two top picks next year to include in your rebuild. If any of those players developed, you're in business. And it's not like Horford, Hayward, or IT will be under contract forever.

I love Bradley, but the guy can never stay healthy. Re-signing an injury-prone, under-sized shooting guard to a long-term contract seems like more of a dead end to me.

That's what makes it tricky. Those guys are practically infants. On one hand, it makes sense to draft and develop as you wait for time to run it's course with Cleveland and Golden State. On the other, it's a model - re-building and contending at the same time, more or less - that doesn't really have a precedent and runs contrary to how other title teams have been built in recent years. The closest I can think of is the Spurs with Leonard - they managed to build a team good enough to win the championship without compromising his development.

But that was a unique situation that will be hard to replicate (though I don't blame them for trying). In a worst case scenario, you're not good enough to beat Cleveland now and not good enough to beat Philly, Milwaukee, or whomever later. That's assuming a lot, though, and ultimately this is entertainment. Not every move you make has to be a ruthless referendum on your title chances - the Celtics are set up to be good for a long time and you're always an injury or two from the entire landscape of the league changing.

 

[intlzncster]

On the other, it's a model - re-building and contending at the same time, more or less - that doesn't really have a precedent and runs contrary to how other title teams have been built in recent years. The closest I can think of is the Spurs with Leonard - they managed to build a team good enough to win the championship without compromising his development.

But that was a unique situation that will be hard to replicate (though I don't blame them for trying). In a worst case scenario, you're not good enough to beat Cleveland now and not good enough to beat Philly, Milwaukee, or whomever later. That's assuming a lot, though, and ultimately this is entertainment. Not every move you make has to be a ruthless referendum on your title chances - the Celtics are set up to be good for a long time and you're always an injury or two from the entire landscape of the league changing.

I think the huge plus about doing it the way they are is that it makes Boston a hell of a lot more attractive to free agents than it would be otherwise (tanking). They can see a stable front office, top shelf coaching situation, and solid team dynamics. That's a lot better than jumping on a sank ship, hoping for it to be resurrected.

 

[champs99and04]

I think the huge plus about doing it the way they are is that it makes Boston a hell of a lot more attractive to free agents than it would be otherwise (tanking). They can see a stable front office, top shelf coaching situation, and solid team dynamics. That's a lot better than jumping on a sank ship, hoping for it to be resurrected.

The other part of me says that no star free agent ever wants to sign in Boston (no Horford and Hayward don't count), which means you gotta do it through the draft or trade. The last time it was a sank ship in '07, Danny flipped his assets - which weren't what they are now - into a title team overnight. I've long suspected that Danny's goal all along has been to do the same thing this time, but I think he's smart enough to where if nothing crops up, he'll say the hell with it, let's just build the old-fashioned way.

 

[Mr. French]

I would take Bradley over Hayward straight up. I don't agree with a single thing the Celtics have done this off-season.

Oof!

 

[intlzncster]

The other part of me says that no star free agent ever wants to sign in Boston (no Horford and Hayward don't count), which means you gotta do it through the draft or trade. The last time it was a sank ship in '07, Danny flipped his assets - which weren't what they are now - into a title team overnight. I've long suspected that Danny's goal all along has been to do the same thing this time, but I think he's smart enough to where if nothing crops up, he'll say the hell with it, let's just build the old-fashioned way.

Maybe, but how many truly star free agents are on the market every year? It's really not a large sample.

 

[awfuldan]

LA vs. Los Angeles - Box Score - July 7, 2017 - ESPN

Lonzo struggled in his debut. 5 points on 2 of 15 shooting (1 of 11 from 3).

Compare that with Fultz and Tatum, who have both been really impressive.

 

[champs99and04]

Maybe, but how many truly star free agents are on the market every year? It's really not a large sample.

You're right, but I think the perception is strong enough at this point that there's at least some truth to it. Way I see it, you have your destination cities and then the others, and most of the former are going to be warmer climates. Even New York and Chicago don't seem to kill it in free agency.

(Incidentally, I wonder if the persisting power imbalance between conferences could have something to do with weather).

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Hayward is probably slightly better overall. He might be a better fit for this particular Boston team - since they were offensively challenged last year - than Bradley, the major distinction being that Hayward can get his own shot and Bradley can't.

But if I'm trying to build a title team from scratch, I think I would take Bradley. If he's the third best player on your team, I would take Bradley because he needs the ball less than Hayward (not saying Hayward can't be effective off the ball, but if he's not going to be a high usage player, his impact is marginalized a bit).

And Boston is one of the few teams in the league that kind of has the luxury of building from scratch, no? Maybe Anthony Davis isn't available today or tomorrow, but if I'm them I'd rather pay Bradley, maintain their other cheap contracts, and let the young guys develop on rosters that aren't going to be as good right away but have less of a dead end vibe to them. Building around Isaiah, Hayward, and Horford seems like a dead end.

Hayward is a lot better than Bradley statistical, especially when you look at the advanced stats, and he was the focus of the opposing defenses. Hayward was exactly what the Celtics needed. I think this was a great pickup, and I am not a Celtics fan.

 

[Dogdeacon]

You're right, but I think the perception is strong enough at this point that there's at least some truth to it. Way I see it, you have your destination cities and then the others, and most of the former are going to be warmer climates. Even New York and Chicago don't seem to kill it in free agency.

(Incidentally, I wonder if the persisting power imbalance between conferences could have something to do with weather).

You can't possibly say that when the Celtics got the #1 free agent that switched teams this year and #2 last year. Yeah they 'lost' KD to GSW but Lakers didn't get a meeting. It's all about team quality not city size & warmth (Milsap went from larger warm to smaller cold, CP3 from LA to Houston - endorsement losses > tax savings). Plus moot point as Cs are at cap now so no more free agent signings unless they trade.

 

[intlzncster]

Way I see it, you have your destination cities and then the others, and most of the former are going to be warmer climates. Even New York and Chicago don't seem to kill it in free agency. (Incidentally, I wonder if the persisting power imbalance between conferences could have something to do with weather).

That's a real interesting concept. I've always believed in the 'city draw' thing, as far as basketball goes, but never took it a step further. Which is why having a 'super team' in Cleveland is so amazing (thanks LeBron).

Don't entirely agree on NYC though. It has that same draw for the players I think, but nothing can overcome being owned and run by James Dolan.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Decent game shooting-wise for DHam Thursday, has got to bring the TOs down though

Charlotte still has yet to play Monk at all AFAIK

Didn't watch Ball's debut yesterday but based on the box score it seems he was fairly... underwhelming.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

The Hardaway deal is another in a long line of boneheaded cap moves by the Knicks front office. Is Allan Houston off the payroll yet?

Hardaway would be a respectable 4 year, $40 million player, and in context, the Knicks paying an average player borderline all-star money is not that bad by their standards.