OT: Draymond Green suspended for Game 5

[methodology]

One thing to keep in mind about Lebron is that he is playing an insane amount of minutes. This will lead to having higher counting stats and not playing as well down the stretch. Even before last night I think he has been the best player in the series.

Mark Jackson said the same thing during the broadcast last night. Said if hte series ended last night LeBron deserved MVP just like last year's final where he deserved to be MVP. He then said that probably wont happen though just like it didnt happen last year

 

[kcc1442]

I mean I know some here will say the stats don't matter but it would be awfully tough for me to argue that someone with the series stats below is playing; bad, poorly, not up to par, not good enough, etc. He's had his moments of drop off and some will say some of those stats are boosted in blow out time but come on. Expecting much more is a little unfair.

28 ppg. 12 rpg 8 apg 2.4 spg 2 bpg 5 topg 50% FG% 38% 3PT % 68 % FT%

 

[kyleslamb]

I haven't read a single thing tangible in your posts, good day sir

So you're doing the fingers in the ear, la la la la la 'I can't hear you' routine eh? About what I expected. Good day to you too.

 

[Huskies4ever]

I mean I know some here will say the stats don't matter but it would be awfully tough for me to argue that someone with the series stats below is playing; bad, poorly, not up to par, not good enough, etc. He's had his moments of drop off and some will say some of those stats are boosted in blow out time but come on. Expecting much more is a little unfair.

28 ppg. 12 rpg 8 apg 2.4 spg 2 bpg 5 topg 50% FG% 38% 3PT % 68 % FT%

The FT% is really the only negative number. 2 apg shy of a triple-duoble, 50% fg and 38$ 3pt fg, pretty awesome stuff.

 

[TasteofUConn]

I haven't read a single thing tangible in your posts, good day sir

He indicated LBJ is leading in all 5 categories. Are you trying to be funny, or do you want a paper copy of those stats?

 

[aceboon]

So you're doing the fingers in the ear, la la la la la 'I can't hear you' routine eh? About what I expected. Good day to you too.

No, I'm doing the "this is going nowhere and we don't see eye to eye on this routine like I told you several replies ago", but you were so thirsty for an argument that you initiated you decided to keep on going with it.

 

[CallMeBruce]

No, I'm doing the "this is going nowhere and we don't see eye to eye on this routine like I told you several replies ago", but you were so thirsty for an argument that you initiated you decided to keep on going with it.

If you don't want people to argue with you, don't go on a public forum and make indefensible statements. LeBron is having an outstanding series. I know both because I've watched him play extraordinarily well and because he's put up incredible numbers. If you think he's played poorly, please explain why.

 

[superjohn]

You keep saying you need to actually watch the games, but I have to question if you actually have. If you did, I'm not sure you know what you're actually watching.

Are you seeing LeBron's decision making? Are you seeing his stellar rim protection? Have you watched him fight through screens? How about the constant help defense?

I think you're just cherry picking field goal percentage for a few games and spurts of other games and using that to say he's not having a great series. You can't lead an entire series of games in ALL categories and not be having a great series. Why? Because it corroborates what you would see if you're actually watching these games... he's out there doing EVERYTHING for his team. Seriously, it takes mental gymnastics to argue he's not having a great series when he's out there playing hawking defense, blocking and altering shots, finishing fast breaks, hitting jumpers, boxing out and rebounding, making precision passes, etc.

The guy is the greatest player in the world and you're doing what too many clueless couch potatoes do... judge him against his own greatness.

Find me a player that's ever led an entire series in all five of those categories. Just go ahead. Report back to me. Then tell me someone that does everything isn't having a good series.

"Are you seeing Lebron's decision making? Are you seeing his stellar rim protection? Have you watched him fight through screens? How about the constant help defense?" You just described all the things he did last night and really hadn't been doing the rest of the series.

 

[aceboon]

If you don't want people to argue with you, don't go on a public forum and make indefensible statements. LeBron is having an outstanding series. I know both because I've watched him play extraordinarily well and because he's put up incredible numbers. If you think he's played poorly, please explain why.

I said he had been playing subpar(the exact word choice) for his standard because he didn't play well in 2 out of the 4 games(games 2 and 4), which is where we were at that point, that didn't equal him having a great series to me. If you feel otherwise then cool, I'm not doing another 3 pages of this nonsense when I already explained that position 2 pages ago.

 

[aceboon]

"Are you seeing Lebron's decision making? Are you seeing his stellar rim protection? Have you watched him fight through screens? How about the constant help defense?" You just described all the things he did last night and really hadn't been doing the rest of the series.

BINGO

 

[champs99and04]

If you don't want people to argue with you, don't go on a public forum and make indefensible statements. LeBron is having an outstanding series. I know both because I've watched him play extraordinarily well and because he's put up incredible numbers. If you think he's played poorly, please explain why.

The conversation was about how he had played prior to last night. Prior to last night, he was a player with a broken jump shot throwing the ball all over the court. He was doing a lot of great things, too, because he's LeBron, but there were still limitations to his game (inability to consistently punish the Warriors for switching) that you could specifically trace back to the outcome of the series. Iguodola was getting the best of that match-up until last night.

 

[UConn990411]

The conversation was about how he had played prior to last night. Prior to last night, he was a player with a broken jump shot throwing the ball all over the court. He was doing a lot of great things, too, because he's LeBron, but there were still limitations to his game (inability to consistently punish the Warriors for switching) that you could specifically trace back to the outcome of the series. Iguodola was getting the best of that match-up until last night.

Exactly this.

People seem to want to label his performance as either bad or great, when the reality is that he was neither of those things until last night. By his standards, he had been having a meh series.

 

[mauconnfan]

You had to have been wearing your new Steph Curry 2s when you typed this.

I don't like Curry either (even given his last name) I have NO skin in the game. But you had to be wearing your "Mau's Stupid" hat you and 7774 bought because if you saw that and are ok with it, I'm worried about your thoughts on Lebron. It was terrible and he was wrong, you want to tell me he wasn't and why. Please watch it and then defend yourself - no shot!

 

[mauconnfan]

What you described sounds like great leadership to me. If someone doesn't do their job, why don't you want players calling out their teammates and making sure they do it right the next time?

I swear, the LeBron hate is bordering on nuts.

Not sure I said I hated him at all, so I'm not sure who's nuts here? But he has changed into an unlikable guy with his incessant whining and now throwing his own guys under the bus. Leadership? LOL not calling out a guy for you taking a play off - watch it and get back to me ok.

 

[methodology]

BINGO

Except it's not Bingo cuz he's been undoubtedly the best defender in this entire series on both teams and every single game

 

[aceboon]

Except it's not Bingo cuz he's been undoubtedly the best defender in this entire series on both teams and every single game

Games 1-4 I'll go with Draymond, you can take Bron.

 

[kyleslamb]

"Are you seeing Lebron's decision making? Are you seeing his stellar rim protection? Have you watched him fight through screens? How about the constant help defense?" You just described all the things he did last night and really hadn't been doing the rest of the series.

Yet both the basic stats (I have already mentioned his leading the finals in all five major categories) and the quantitative analytics suggest exactly the opposite... he most definitely has been doing it the whole series. Folks just get tunnel vision when they see the win/loss record or when they look at field goal percentage and don't pay any attention to all the details.

Not only does he lead in the aforementioned categories, but he also leads the series in offensive rating, defensive rating, game score and Synergy's defensive rating if you don't trust the simple calculations. He's second in the series in overall +/- adjusted for 48 minutes.

I mean seriously, by every measure you can imagine he's been great this series. There is literally no evidence he hasn't. Funny thing is, none of the folks that are arguing he hasn't been good have given any rationale. It's basically been 'just cuz'

 

[methodology]

I'll go with Draymond, you can take Bron.

I have every game dvr you can come over whenever your want and see how much better LeBron has been than any other player on the court at filling the passing Lanes getting back on help defense blocking shots and just being a beast on the defensive end

 

[lange10]

Going to address a few things...
1. People are complaining that the league favors Lebron and use this Draymond incident as ammo. When the league reviewed the issue Lebron was issued a technical and Draymond a flagrant - aka Lebron received a more severe punishment. Green is a dirty, dirty player. He entices people. He finally got in Lebrons head in game 4 and was able to rile him up. Besides this, Green is a perennial flopper and would not have been on the ground to begin with for Lebron to walk over him had he not flopped. And he clear as day went for a low blow. FOURTH time this postseason. FOUR.
2. I'm a huge Lebron homer but tend to agree with @aceboon on his assessment of Lebron leading up to last nights game. It's fair to say that statistically and on the court he has been pretty damn good but it still is not as good as he can be. Game 2 and 4 he did not play up to Lebron standards and they need him on his A game every single night, every single play in this series. He and the Cavs cannot afford "good" games from Lebron. They need great games. He stepped up HUGE last night. Huge - probably his second best playoff performance ever. Kyrie's performance certainly doesn't hurt.
3. I still think ultimately the Warriors pull it out and I really wonder how this series turns out if Lebron plays with urgency and the way he is capable in the 4th quarter of game 4. Letting that game slip away that would've tied the series will likely prove to be the dagger, I believe. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[mauconnfan]

Except it's not Bingo cuz he's been undoubtedly the best defender in this entire series on both teams and every single game

He's a great great player, proved it last night. Doesn't make him a great guy that's all, pretty simple. He's not a bad guy that's for sure and I really don't hate him a bit. He was just more likable when he arrived and until the last few years. But who cares anyway he can do what he wants he could care less about the BY.lol

 

[mauconnfan]

I have every game dvr you can come over whenever your want and see how much better LeBron has been than any other player on the court at filling the passing Lanes getting back on help defense blocking shots and just being a beast on the defensive end

He was a beast on the defensive end last night in the 4th quarter when it really counted. Wouldn't call the full performance or all series beastly but always solid. The 4th though last night was impressive.

 

[junglehusky]

Lemme just put this here and I'll walk away. *whistles casually*

 

[kcc1442]

Going to address a few things...
1. People are complaining that the league favors Lebron and use this Draymond incident as ammo. When the league reviewed the issue Lebron was issued a technical and Draymond a flagrant - aka Lebron received a more severe punishment. Green is a dirty, dirty player. He entices people. He finally got in Lebrons head in game 4 and was able to rile him up. Besides this, Green is a perennial flopper and would not have been on the ground to begin with for Lebron to walk over him had he not flopped. And he clear as day went for a low blow. FOURTH time this postseason. FOUR.
2. I'm a huge Lebron homer but tend to agree with @aceboon on his assessment of Lebron leading up to last nights game. It's fair to say that statistically and on the court he has been pretty damn good but it still is not as good as he can be. Game 2 and 4 he did not play up to Lebron standards and they need him on his A game every single night, every single play in this series. He and the Cavs cannot afford "good" games from Lebron. They need great games. He stepped up HUGE last night. Huge - probably his second best playoff performance ever. Kyrie's performance certainly doesn't hurt.
3. I still think ultimately the Warriors pull it out and I really wonder how this series turns out if Lebron plays with urgency and the way he is capable in the 4th quarter of game 4. Letting that game slip away that would've tied the series will likely prove to be the dagger, I believe. Hope I'm wrong.

This is exactly why some people give this exact unfair assessment. It's because people expect LeBron to be solely responsible, because of his skill set, for carrying the entire team at all times for 46 minutes a game. So when he puts up 42 and 14 he does well but when he goes for 28 its just well average (only it's not it's just his average) and he needs to be otherworldly AND when he god forbid scores 20 and 9 and 7 and does all the small things, and blocks two shots, affects 6 more, boxes out hard on 10 more so others on his team get the rebound, but they lose the game well the detractors say well he should have scored 42 and 14. But the reality is you can't produce those numbers every game, nobody averages 42 and 14. So just because he has a 20/8/7 game doesn't mean he is playing sub-par, instead he is playing as well as his average indicates which in this series is 28. Which! is pretty damn good. And if you're asking for more, well then you are approaching unreasonable.

 

[lange10]

This is exactly why some people give this exact unfair assessment. It's because people expect LeBron to be solely responsible, because of his skill set, for carrying the entire team at all times for 46 minutes a game. So when he puts up 42 and 14 he does well but when he goes for 28 its just well average (only it's not it's just his average) and he needs to be otherworldly AND when he god forbid scores 20 and 9 and 7 and does all the small things, and blocks two shots, affects 6 more, boxes out hard on 10 more so others on his team get the rebound, but they lose the game well the detractors say well he should have scored 42 and 14. But the reality is you can't produce those numbers every game, nobody averages 42 and 14. So just because he has a 20/8/7 game doesn't mean he is playing sub-par, instead he is playing as well as his average indicates which in this series is 28. Which! is pretty damn good. And if you're asking for more, well then you are approaching unreasonable.

My assessment is not unfair. Lebron has different standards than most. He is the best player on this planet and it isn't close. He is my favorite player and I debate day in and day out with friends about just how good he is. Considering his talent level and just how good the Warriors are, I believe he needs to play at his best every single play. He can't take plays off. He can't be careless with the ball. He can't forget that no one on the court can contain him and settle for jumpers or not attack the rim and try to draw fouls. In game 4 in the 4th quarter he was invincible. That is unacceptable with the game on the line and the possibility to tie the series going back to GS. Again, Lebron is having a good finals, I'm not denying that whatsoever. His stats are unbelievable (he is a walking 25, 7 & 7 stat line). What I'm simply getting at is GS is so good that he has to be at his best at all times in this series and can't have moments like the 4th quarter in game 4. Jeesh.

 

[kyleslamb]

My assessment is not unfair. Lebron has different standards than most. He is the best player on this planet and it isn't close. He is my favorite player and I debate day in and day out with friends about just how good he is. Considering his talent level and just how good the Warriors are, I believe he needs to play at his best every single play. He can't take plays off. He can't be careless with the ball. He can't forget that no one on the court can contain him and settle for jumpers or not attack the rim and try to draw fouls. In game 4 in the 4th quarter he was invincible. That is unacceptable with the game on the line and the possibility to tie the series going back to GS. Again, Lebron is having a good finals, I'm not denying that whatsoever. His stats are unbelievable (he is a walking 25, 7 & 7 stat line). What I'm simply getting at is GS is so good that he has to be at his best at all times in this series and can't have moments like the 4th quarter in game 4. Jeesh.

"He needs to be his best at all times"

And therein lies the problem. You're asking a human to be inhuman and given this, you say your assessment isn't unfair? The heck it isn't. No one is capable of being their best at all times. No one. I can't believe anyone could type an expectation someone has to be their best at all times and not stop and realize how unreasonable and irrational they're being while typing that.

I'll gladly beat a dead horse here: he leads the series in all five statistical categories as well as offensive and defensive rating. He's doing it against the team that broke the all-time single season wins record.

The problem isn't with LeBron, it's absolutely irrational expectations for him. Even when he's not his best, he's the best player on the planet. He shouldn't be penalized for being better than everyone else and therefore needs to perform to his greatness every single night. That's frankly not possible. But his 'average' games are still better than anyone else puts out. He has down nights like everyone. He's HUMAN. Let's stop expecting more than that.