Dorka Should Start

[Waquoit]

Right now, I believe Liv should start the next game. I agree with something Oldude said prior to the Fort Hays State game: No one should lose or gain a starting spot based on their play in this exhibition game.

What about how they play in practice?

 

[CocoHusky]

Shameful we're asking and responding to a question like this.
Liv has earned her right and contributed to a team we all know and love. Let's Go Liv!!!

The post shouldn't be about who should sit or start but more about the fact that we potentially have depth at a position we been lacking at since 2017. 17 and 18 classes was all perimeter players and it left us with a huge void. Liv shouldering the middle duties solo is a heavy burden, most wouldn't survive. Hopefully The young Post (DeBerry, Paith) learn from the Bermuda Triangle and help set the table for the next 4 years.

UCONN future is bright with the Bermuda Triangle (Liv, Aliyah, Dorka) sprinkled with DeBerry and Paith occasionally.

It is not shameful at all it is perfectly justified because this debate started long before Dorka decided to come to UCONN and was based on lack of "individual" development of Liv. Liv was a starter as a sophomore. Liv failed to make a sophomore leap in her development. Specifically she failed to play with better control so as not to pick up ticky tacky fouls and be available to her team at crunch time. More significantly, she failed to impact games against ranked opponents. Liv actually impacted more games as a freshman than she did as a sophomore the most notable of which was her swat of a Mabrey shot in the ND game which help to turned the tide of that game in UCONN's favor. I have heard/read all the possible arguments/excuses for Liv's lack of development. Your argument falls in to the category of she was the only post player and the burden was too heavy . Others have put forth the argument that post players take longer to develop. Still others view every critique as a criticism, piling on, or not being supportive enough. Last season the debate continued because in certain games freshman Aaliyah Edwards outplayed Junior Liv leaving many to opine that UCONN should go to a 4 guard 1 post offense and that 1 post should be Aaliyah because Aaliyah provided more of the the post presence that UCONN needed. The debate was bound to continue because of the way UCONN's season ended. Consider that freshman Aaliyah not only outplayed Liv in the Arizona game (more points & rebounds) but the 8 points Aaliyah scored in the Arizona game was only 1 less than the total points (9) that Liv scored in the last three games of UCONN's season. Dorka is just the latest chapter in this debate but let's be clear It was Liv's inability to become a reliable starter that first started the debate and allows it to continue. Personally I'm resigned and less optimistic about Liv finally turning a corner in this her senior season. I'm also resigned to the fact that Liv is a very good player and can be and has been a solid contributor to UCONN teams. I'm also resigned to the fact that in order for UCONN to win another championship more productivity will be required from the post position. I'm optimistic that Alliyah, Dorka & Liv can provide that productivity this season.

 

[Waquoit]

Liv has earned her right and contributed to a team we all know and love.

Earned her right to what?

 

[oldude]

What about how they play in practice?

Since none of us have been at UConn’s practices, I guess we’ll just have to confine our opinions to what we’ve seen in the exhibition game.

 

[CocoHusky]

Since none of us have been at UConn’s practices, I guess we’ll just have to confine our opinions to what we’ve seen in the exhibition game.

Dorka and Liv are NCAA seniors with close to 100 NCAA games played. We might want to consider those games in our opinions as well.

 

[ClifSpliffy]

It is not shameful at all it is perfectly justified because this debate started long before Dorka decided to come to UCONN and was based on lack of "individual" development of Liv. Liv was a starter as a sophomore. Liv failed to make a sophomore leap in her development. Specifically she failed to play with better control so as not to pick up ticky tacky fouls and be available to her team at crunch time. More significantly, she failed to impact games against ranked opponents. Liv actually impacted more games as a freshman than she did as a sophomore the most notable of which was her swat of a Mabrey shot in the ND game which help to turned the tide of that game in UCONN's favor. I have heard/read all the possible arguments/excuses for Liv's lack of development. Your argument falls in to the category of she was the only post player and the burden was too heavy . Others have put forth the argument that post players take longer to develop. Still others view every critique as a criticism, piling on, or not being supportive enough. Last season the debate continued because in certain games freshman Aaliyah Edwards outplayed Junior Liv leaving many to opine that UCONN should go to a 4 guard 1 post offense and that 1 post should be Aaliyah because Aaliyah provided more of the the post presence that UCONN needed. The debate was bound to continue because of the way UCONN's season ended. Consider that freshman Aaliyah not only outplayed Liv in the Arizona game (more points & rebounds) but the 8 points Aaliyah scored in the Arizona game was only 1 less than the total points (9) that Liv scored in the last three games of UCONN's season. Dorka is just the latest chapter in this debate but let's be clear It was Liv's inability to become a reliable starter that first started the debate and allows it to continue. Personally I'm resigned and less optimistic about Liv finally turning a corner in this her senior season. I'm also resigned to the fact that Liv is a very good player and can be and has been a solid contributor to UCONN teams. I'm also resigned to the fact that in order for UCONN to win another championship more productivity will be required from the post position. I'm optimistic that Alliyah, Dorka & Liv can provide that productivity this season.

dang, that's sum good mulch right thar. nailed it.

 

[The deacon]

I believe we all might share a concern about Dorka and her 54 percent career shooting at the free-throw line heading there down the stretch of a big game. However, it's noteworthy that Olivia's 55.8 is scarcely better. Let's hope they find an improved touch at the line this season, 'cause they're both likely to be spending a goodly share of time there.

This is my first post. I've read and enjoyed the BY's thoughtful, often humorous and, dare I say, sometimes both insightful and inciteful narratives. At my age, it's pretty cool to be a rookie at anything again!

By the way, as you might have gathered from the Deacon, I have an allegiance to Wake Forest. Yet rest assured, since the days of Lobo, Rizzotti & Co., come winter season my heart belongs to the Huskies

 

[oldude]

Dorka and Liv are NCAA seniors with close to 100 NCAA games played. We might want to consider those games in our opinions as well.

That’s fine. I’ve seen every UConn game that Liv has played in for the past 3 years. I will venture to guess there isn’t a single BY’er that’s watched more than a handful of Dorka’s games over the past 3 years.

I’ve watched 2 of Dorka’s games, both against UConn, one as a freshman and one as a sophomore. She was 2/8 & 0/4 from the arc as a freshman and 4/15 & 0/5 as a sophomore.

Since one of the criticisms of Liv is that she doesn’t show up in big games, I thought it was interesting that in arguably the biggest games of her first 2 years, Dorka struggled shooting the ball.

However, I have an open mind. I believe Dorka will be much better playing with UConn than playing against UConn.

 

[JoePgh]

I was at the game and had a close-up look at both Dorka and Liv. I can tell you for sure that Liv has a noticeably more muscular build than Dorka at this point. That is why I expect Liv to be a more effective rebounder against top competition than Dorka.

If Liv goes up for a rebound against Aliyah Boston, I think she will have a 50% chance of coming down with it. I wouldn't give Dorka more than a 30% chance in the same situation.

This board has often complained about Liv's supposedly slight, beanpole physique. That was accurate when she was a freshman, but it has been quite inaccurate for a long time now. But the caricature does seem to apply to Dorka as of now.

Before the exhibition game, Geno commented about how Dorka's conditioning isn't yet where it needs to be. I thought he was talking about her stamina, but now I think that he was also talking about her upper body strength.

So I expect that Dorka will play if the perimeter shooters aren't hitting and the team needs inside scoring. But if the offense is OK and the priority is clearing the defensive boards, then I think Liv will get more minutes.

 

[meyers7]

Has there ever been a player that receives such disrespect from UConn fans than live?? And @Fairfield Fan sayin Piath and DeBerry looked better than Liv in the game and my be better at the of the year. Ya'll talk about the Tennessee fans really need to look in the mirror. And ya may need your UConn fan card taken away!!

It's not good, but it doesn't come close to comparing to what it was like back in the day with Conlon.

 

[UConnCat]

It's not good, but it doesn't come close to comparing to what it was like back in the day with Conlon.

And she was a starter on 2 national championship teams!

 

[Biff]

It's not good, but it doesn't come close to comparing to what it was like back in the day with Conlon.

And I hope that that standard is never met or even approached again.

 

[CocoHusky]

I was at the game and had a close-up look at both Dorka and Liv. I can tell you for sure that Liv has a noticeably more muscular build than Dorka at this point. That is why I expect Liv to be a more effective rebounder against top competition than Dorka.

If Liv goes up for a rebound against Aliyah Boston, I think she will have a 50% chance of coming down with it. I wouldn't give Dorka more than a 30% chance in the same situation.

This board has often complained about Liv's supposedly slight, beanpole physique. That was accurate when she was a freshman, but it has been quite inaccurate for a long time now. But the caricature does seem to apply to Dorka as of now.

Before the exhibition game, Geno commented about how Dorka's conditioning isn't yet where it needs to be. I thought he was talking about her stamina, but now I think that he was also talking about her upper body strength.

So I expect that Dorka will play if the perimeter shooters aren't hitting and the team needs inside scoring. But if the offense is OK and the priority is clearing the defensive boards, then I think Liv will get more minutes.

Both Geno and Dorka talked about a thigh bruise which effected her conditioning and "ability to get up and down the court"=conditioning issue for a few weeks of practice.

 

[Geew1992]

It's not good, but it doesn't come close to comparing to what it was like back in the day with Conlon.

I wasn’t on the board then

 

[fireford]

The whole Liv/Dorka saga reminds me of the early 80's when Cedric Maxwell started and Kevin McHale came off the bench. They each had different skill sets and were valuable in their own way. Maxwell did a lot of the dirty work underneath and McHale had the long reach and post up moves that made his shots extremely tough to block. Maxwell was the incumbent and was a valuable player for many years so continued to start after McHale was drafted and McHale came off the bench even though most would argue that McHale, who made the HOF and 75-year anniversary team, was the better player and was a matchup nightmare for the opposition.
I actually liked it because if the Celtics were behind, McHale could come off the bench and spark them and get them back in the game. If they were doing well, he kept the momentum going. So for me, even though I may be partial to Dorka, I'm OK with her coming off the bench for similar reasons. Not going well: in comes Dorka to spark things. Things going well: no momentum lost when Dorka comes in. On top of Dorka we'll have Azzi and Nika coming off the bench as well.
Last year when we were down 10 early to AZ we were left wondering (and wondering) how we'd get back in the game. This year with players like Dorka, Azzi, Nika (and even Caroline) coming off the bench I don't think we'd have the same worries.

 

[cbraarj]

1999-2000 season or 2000-2001 season??? And which two Captain/Starters??

2000 Sauer and Hansmeyer were Captains with their classmate Ralph

 

[Cuango]

Earned her right to what?

Her right to play whatever position/status her coach determines she should play without constantly being put down by fair weather fans who can’t wait to see her replaced by the newer, shinier toy that has come along. May I remind everyone that Geno (he of the 11 national championships) will decide who starts and how many minutes etc, etc! Good lord, some on this board just seem so unaware that we don’t see most of what he sees and have no idea of all the intangibles and personalities and chemistry issues that have to be blended together to produce all those championships! Can’t we all just trust Geno et al and enjoy this season? Whether Dorka starts or not has zero to do with whether we win the NC this season! She is going to get lots of minutes and will likely be a key piece in a potential championship! Isn’t that enough?

 

[MD#12Fan]

Her right to play whatever position/status her coach determines she should play without constantly being put down by fair weather fans who can’t wait to see her replaced by the newer, shinier toy that has come along. May I remind everyone that Geno (he of the 11 national championships) will decide who starts and how many minutes etc, etc! Good lord, some on this board just seem so unaware that we don’t see most of what he sees and have no idea of all the intangibles and personalities and chemistry issues that have to be blended together to produce all those championships! Can’t we all just trust Geno et al and enjoy this season? Whether Dorka starts or not has zero to do with whether we win the NC this season! She is going to get lots of minutes and will likely be a key piece in a potential championship! Isn’t that enough?

I agree with your sentiments re: Liv and Dorka, as I've expressed here, but I disagree with the general premise that we cannot have discussions on this board regarding any and all things UConn WCBB. (as long as we're respectful toward the players and observant of the rules of the BY) To me, without fun discussions, there's no point in the board or in commenting on the board. One can just use the board for information, like schedules, start times, where to watch the games, etc.
Do comments pro or con have to be prefaced with " Geno, 11 championships, blahtty, blahty...". We all know that. We can still talk hoops.

 

[D J B]

Dorka and Liv are NCAA seniors with close to 100 NCAA games played. We might want to consider those games in our opinions as well.

I posted this in the other Dorka thread going at the same time, but it's relevant to your point, so here it is again.

Career numbers over three years:

Liv
Games - 100
Total pts - 876
Total 2pts - 360-640 720pts
Total 3pts - 4-22 12pts
FT% - 55.8 144pts

Dorka
Games - 75
Total pts - 975
Total 2pts - 312-579 624pts
Total 3pts - 70-231 210pts
FT% - .54 141pts

 

[CocoHusky]

Her right to play whatever position/status her coach determines she should play without constantly being put down by fair weather fans who can’t wait to see her replaced by the newer, shinier toy that has come along. May I remind everyone that Geno (he of the 11 national championships) will decide who starts and how many minutes etc, etc! Good lord, some on this board just seem so unaware that we don’t see most of what he sees and have no idea of all the intangibles and personalities and chemistry issues that have to be blended together to produce all those championships! Can’t we all just trust Geno et al and enjoy this season? Whether Dorka starts or not has zero to do with whether we win the NC this season! She is going to get lots of minutes and will likely be a key piece in a potential championship! Isn’t that enough?

Us fair weather fans are keenly aware that Geno will decide who starts and how many championships he has won and need no reminder. Our trust in Geno is also not an issue here or the subject of this thread. Not only do I disagree with you that Dorka starting will have "zero" to do with whether UCONN wins another championship this season, I think Dorka should start and she will be a major factor in UCONN winning or not this season. Fell free to disagree if you want, that was kind of the idea of this entire thread. Just don't resort to the name calling and the incredibly lame stance that Geno knows best and we should trust him or else we are fair weather fans. BTW personally I like "newer shinier" toys. But that kind of implies that the other toys are older and less shiny=dull. Let's just make sure that we are only talking about toys here and not players because the implications of your analogy would be kind of rude.

 

[D J B]

Her right to play whatever position/status her coach determines she should play without constantly being put down by fair weather fans who can’t wait to see her replaced by the newer, shinier toy that has come along. May I remind everyone that Geno (he of the 11 national championships) will decide who starts and how many minutes etc, etc! Good lord, some on this board just seem so unaware that we don’t see most of what he sees and have no idea of all the intangibles and personalities and chemistry issues that have to be blended together to produce all those championships! Can’t we all just trust Geno et al and enjoy this season? Whether Dorka starts or not has zero to do with whether we win the NC this season! She is going to get lots of minutes and will likely be a key piece in a potential championship! Isn’t that enough?

You seem to have forgotten that this is discussion board. You know, to talk and debate things like ideas/differences/opinions. I don't see anyone being abusive and slapping any players here. Each other, yes, but that happens here quite often.

 

[Geesworld]

It is not shameful at all it is perfectly justified because this debate started long before Dorka decided to come to UCONN and was based on lack of "individual" development of Liv. Liv was a starter as a sophomore. Liv failed to make a sophomore leap in her development. Specifically she failed to play with better control so as not to pick up ticky tacky fouls and be available to her team at crunch time. More significantly, she failed to impact games against ranked opponents. Liv actually impacted more games as a freshman than she did as a sophomore the most notable of which was her swat of a Mabrey shot in the ND game which help to turned the tide of that game in UCONN's favor. I have heard/read all the possible arguments/excuses for Liv's lack of development. Your argument falls in to the category of she was the only post player and the burden was too heavy . Others have put forth the argument that post players take longer to develop. Still others view every critique as a criticism, piling on, or not being supportive enough. Last season the debate continued because in certain games freshman Aaliyah Edwards outplayed Junior Liv leaving many to opine that UCONN should go to a 4 guard 1 post offense and that 1 post should be Aaliyah because Aaliyah provided more of the the post presence that UCONN needed. The debate was bound to continue because of the way UCONN's season ended. Consider that freshman Aaliyah not only outplayed Liv in the Arizona game (more points & rebounds) but the 8 points Aaliyah scored in the Arizona game was only 1 less than the total points (9) that Liv scored in the last three games of UCONN's season. Dorka is just the latest chapter in this debate but let's be clear It was Liv's inability to become a reliable starter that first started the debate and allows it to continue. Personally I'm resigned and less optimistic about Liv finally turning a corner in this her senior season. I'm also resigned to the fact that Liv is a very good player and can be and has been a solid contributor to UCONN teams. I'm also resigned to the fact that in order for UCONN to win another championship more productivity will be required from the post position. I'm optimistic that Alliyah, Dorka & Liv can provide that productivity this season.

It is not shameful at all it is perfectly justified because this debate started long before Dorka decided to come to UCONN and was based on lack of "individual" development of Liv. Liv was a starter as a sophomore. Liv failed to make a sophomore leap in her development. Specifically she failed to play with better control so as not to pick up ticky tacky fouls and be available to her team at crunch time. More significantly, she failed to impact games against ranked opponents. Liv actually impacted more games as a freshman than she did as a sophomore the most notable of which was her swat of a Mabrey shot in the ND game which help to turned the tide of that game in UCONN's favor. I have heard/read all the possible arguments/excuses for Liv's lack of development. Your argument falls in to the category of she was the only post player and the burden was too heavy . Others have put forth the argument that post players take longer to develop. Still others view every critique as a criticism, piling on, or not being supportive enough. Last season the debate continued because in certain games freshman Aaliyah Edwards outplayed Junior Liv leaving many to opine that UCONN should go to a 4 guard 1 post offense and that 1 post should be Aaliyah because Aaliyah provided more of the the post presence that UCONN needed. The debate was bound to continue because of the way UCONN's season ended. Consider that freshman Aaliyah not only outplayed Liv in the Arizona game (more points & rebounds) but the 8 points Aaliyah scored in the Arizona game was only 1 less than the total points (9) that Liv scored in the last three games of UCONN's season. Dorka is just the latest chapter in this debate but let's be clear It was Liv's inability to become a reliable starter that first started the debate and allows it to continue. Personally I'm resigned and less optimistic about Liv finally turning a corner in this her senior season. I'm also resigned to the fact that Liv is a very good player and can be and has been a solid contributor to UCONN teams. I'm also resigned to the fact that in order for UCONN to win another championship more productivity will be required from the post position. I'm optimistic that Alliyah, Dorka & Liv can provide that productivity this season.

uda Triangle.

It is not shameful at all it is perfectly justified because this debate started long before Dorka decided to come to UCONN and was based on lack of "individual" development of Liv. Liv was a starter as a sophomore. Liv failed to make a sophomore leap in her development. Specifically she failed to play with better control so as not to pick up ticky tacky fouls and be available to her team at crunch time. More significantly, she failed to impact games against ranked opponents. Liv actually impacted more games as a freshman than she did as a sophomore the most notable of which was her swat of a Mabrey shot in the ND game which help to turned the tide of that game in UCONN's favor. I have heard/read all the possible arguments/excuses for Liv's lack of development. Your argument falls in to the category of she was the only post player and the burden was too heavy . Others have put forth the argument that post players take longer to develop. Still others view every critique as a criticism, piling on, or not being supportive enough. Last season the debate continued because in certain games freshman Aaliyah Edwards outplayed Junior Liv leaving many to opine that UCONN should go to a 4 guard 1 post offense and that 1 post should be Aaliyah because Aaliyah provided more of the the post presence that UCONN needed. The debate was bound to continue because of the way UCONN's season ended. Consider that freshman Aaliyah not only outplayed Liv in the Arizona game (more points & rebounds) but the 8 points Aaliyah scored in the Arizona game was only 1 less than the total points (9) that Liv scored in the last three games of UCONN's season. Dorka is just the latest chapter in this debate but let's be clear It was Liv's inability to become a reliable starter that first started the debate and allows it to continue. Personally I'm resigned and less optimistic about Liv finally turning a corner in this her senior season. I'm also resigned to the fact that Liv is a very good player and can be and has been a solid contributor to UCONN teams. I'm also resigned to the fact that in order for UCONN to win another championship more productivity will be required from the post position. I'm optimistic that Alliyah, Dorka & Liv can provide that productivity this season.

Thank you for the response.
Well, I've never seen one player shoulder so much yet utilized so little. I absolutely agree with you about development of Post players. It will take longer especially in UCONN system. We don't use our bigs and yet they are often highlighted the most when things don't go well. Guards and Wings will forever be the franchise at UCONN. All you have to do is pay attention to Recruiting and it will tell you everything you need to know what is priority. I'm not worried about Liv turning a corner because she will not be counted on. We will never have a game plan where we try and establish a post presence. Especially against the elite programs. If we are being honest game plans are way different against the elite than when we play conference opponents. I still don't understand why we pull Liv away from the Basket full time during Elite competition. Liv playing lousy cost us a chance at the title last year. So did her teammates. Napheesa Collier had poor Final Four games on her resume too. I love my Huskies!

Bermuda Triangle is the Key and Geno's trust in them will also be Key.

 

[Geesworld]

Fair enough. Another part of what they accomplish can be viewed in comparison of conference played in. Dorka was 1st team All Big 10 (2X). Liv was not 1st team in the BE or the American which hopefully you would agree should have been easier to accomplish. Dorka played in a conference which produced 5 tournament teams last year (Iowa, Indiana, Northwestern, Maryland, & Michigan). Among the 5 Big 10 Teams only Northwestern failed to advance to the sweet 16. So put another way 1/4 (25%) of the teams in the sweet sixteen were from the conference in which Dorka played and was named All conference.
Dorka FT shooting % is a concern but so is Liv's propensity for disappearing in big games.

Wow!

 

[BostonBay]

I'm looking at Dorka's stats in more detail, and I come away even more impressed. She's basically an efficient double-double machine. Over 11 rebounds a game last year (after close to 10 her first two years). And, from videos/games I've seen, she is super aggressive to the ball and basket. Much needed for a team that does too much "standing around" at times last year.

 

[D J B]

Wow!

Care to clarify?