Dorka Should Start

[Cuango]

I agree with your sentiments re: Liv and Dorka, as I've expressed here, but I disagree with the general premise that we cannot have discussions on this board regarding any and all things UConn WCBB. (as long as we're respectful toward the players and observant of the rules of the BY) To me, without fun discussions, there's no point in the board or in commenting on the board. One can just use the board for information, like schedules, start times, where to watch the games, etc.
Do comments pro or con have to be prefaced with " Geno, 11 championships, blahtty, blahty...". We all know that. We can still talk hoops.

Obviously not! I just think people are way too quick to criticize and sometimes attack ONO who has been nothing but a class act since she first came here. I would also point out that she was basically our last option after the unexpected loss of Boston and Collier. Sure, she’s not Tina Charles, Stewie, or Steph but she’s been a solid player for us and has done so with class and dignity and imo does not deserve the near constant snarky comments by some on this board! Will Rogers once said,”we can’t all be heroes, someone has to sit on the curb and clap!” ONO may never be an All-American and player of the year etc. She may never dominate a top five matchup but she represents her University and team to the best of her ability and imo that’s good enough! No one, to my knowledge, has said that she can’t be discussed and/or criticized on her performance. Clearly, she has areas of weakness and has had (in particular) difficulties in big games. Those are well documented and are grounds for fair criticisms and discussions. I simply feel that some focus relentlessly on her shortcomings without acknowledging the positive aspects of her game.

 

[jchusky]

Has there ever been a player that receives such disrespect from UConn fans than live?? And @Fairfield Fan sayin Piath and DeBerry looked better than Liv in the game and my be better at the of the year. Ya'll talk about the Tennessee fans really need to look in the mirror. And ya may need your UConn fan card taken away!!

honestly seems to be a competition of who gets more scrutiny, Williams or Olivia. Glad they are both best friends and roommates, I'm sure no doubt that they help lift each other with all this unnecessary noise. No idea why some just want to get rid of someone who played here all 3 seasons, no problems from what I can tell on or off the court. I admit I have not watched many big 10 wbb games in the past but I musta missed Dorka and her huge impact on Ohio st considering they went an incredible 13-7 and finished 7th in the conference. I am going to stick with the player that brought me to the dance.

 

[CocoHusky]

honestly seems to be a competition of who gets more scrutiny, Williams or Olivia. Glad they are both best friends and roommates, I'm sure no doubt that they help lift each other with all this unnecessary noise. No idea why some just want to get rid of someone who played here all 3 seasons, no problems from what I can tell on or off the court. I admit I have not watched many big 10 wbb games in the past but I musta missed Dorka and her huge impact on Ohio st considering they went an incredible 13-7 and finished 7th in the conference. I am going to stick with the player that brought me to the dance.

Don't think anyone ever said let's get rid of Liv or Christyn. I'm not sure how anyone would look at Liv's on court performance against Arizona and not think there was a serious "on the court problem". Christyn spent her entire sophomore season spiraling with a lack confidence and Liv did not recognize the player wearing her uniform in the Arizona game- these are both by the players own admissions. Ohio State was 13 and 7 last year that's correct. Dorka missed 3 games. What is also correct is that Dorka was the best player on that team and one of the best players in the conference. Sticking with the player that brought you to the dance sounds like a very good idea. Why does every thread have to end up being about Paige?

 

[oldhusky]

I had a thought watching SC against NC State last night. WE had a classic match-up of Boston vs. Cunane and sometimes with Cardosa. For the most part defense ruled, in other words when facing off against another very talented big performer, they couldn't dominate or do much offensively compared to what they normally do.

Obviously this board is well aware of how Liv's offensive output falls off a cliff against the top bigs, but based on Dorka's numbers in the past it has happened to her too, maybe not as much as Liv, but still a pretty big drop-off. So when I see top ranked bigs having trouble scoring against each other last night I wondered, maybe that is a more normal circumstance than we imagine.

Very good and talented C's are very very rare. They probably go thru most seasons like Liv pilling up big numbers with easy close baskets against players not nearly as big or good. Then they play a comparable player and those easy offensive rebound put-backs disappear, they might be shocked by getting a shot blocked, the same moves that worked with ease don't work anymore against tough competition. In many ways, for them it is entirely different situation that they face only a few times a year.

The only time they will face regular competition like that, is when they are in the WNBA. The players at other positions see talented opposition the same size far more often. But 6-5 and talented doesn't happen very often, so maybe they don't develop alternatives or counter moves against players of similar ability and size because they face it so rarely, and against 90% of their opponents they can just go with what works against smaller defenders.

 

[Geesworld]

Care to clarify?

Little perplexed that Dorka vs Olivia career stats and awards are being highlighted to make a compelling contrast between the two. So much is lost when a post of such is shared. But I stand in the minority so I'll keep quiet.

 

[meyers7]

2000 Sauer and Hansmeyer were Captains with their classmate Ralph

Sooo 1999-2000. Hansmeyer did not start her Jr year.

 

[eebmg]

Don't think anyone ever said let's get rid of Liv or Christyn. I'm not sure how anyone would look at Liv's on court performance against Arizona and not think there was a serious "on the court problem". Christyn spent her entire sophomore season spiraling with a lack confidence and Liv did not recognize the player wearing her uniform in the Arizona game- these are both by the players own admissions. Ohio State was 13 and 7 last year that's correct. Dorka missed 3 games. What is also correct is that Dorka was the best player on that team and one of the best players in the conference. Sticking with the player that brought you to the dance sounds like a very good idea. Why does every thread have to end up being about Paige?

Paige is last years news. Azzi takes center stage now.

 

[oldude]

I had a thought watching SC against NC State last night. WE had a classic match-up of Boston vs. Cunane and sometimes with Cardosa. For the most part defense ruled, in other words when facing off against another very talented big performer, they couldn't dominate or do much offensively compared to what they normally do.

Obviously this board is well aware of how Liv's offensive output falls off a cliff against the top bigs, but based on Dorka's numbers in the past it has happened to her too, maybe not as much as Liv, but still a pretty big drop-off. So when I see top ranked bigs having trouble scoring against each other last night I wondered, maybe that is a more normal circumstance than we imagine.

Very good and talented C's are very very rare. They probably go thru most seasons like Liv pilling up big numbers with easy close baskets against players not nearly as big or good. Then they play a comparable player and those easy offensive rebound put-backs disappear, they might be shocked by getting a shot blocked, the same moves that worked with ease don't work anymore against tough competition. In many ways, for them it is entirely different situation that they face only a few times a year.

The only time they will face regular competition like that, is when they are in the WNBA. The players at other positions see talented opposition the same size far more often. But 6-5 and talented doesn't happen very often, so maybe they don't develop alternatives or counter moves against players of similar ability and size because they face it so rarely, and against 90% of their opponents they can just go with what works against smaller defenders.

Excellent post. Last night I was also struck by how difficult it was for any of the Bigs on either team to score.

 

[meyers7]

I agree with your sentiments re: Liv and Dorka, as I've expressed here, but I disagree with the general premise that we cannot have discussions on this board regarding any and all things UConn WCBB. (as long as we're respectful toward the players and observant of the rules of the BY) To me, without fun discussions, there's no point in the board or in commenting on the board. One can just use the board for information, like schedules, start times, where to watch the games, etc.
Do comments pro or con have to be prefaced with " Geno, 11 championships, blahtty, blahty...". We all know that. We can still talk hoops.

Yes! Especially when posters on a message board who mostly never coached anything beyond "possibly" their own kids in a rec league, let alone a storied Div 1 team, are questioning a 11 time NC, hall of fame, USA NT coach on who should be in his starting line-up.

People can post what they want. They just need to be reminded now and then (especially when they think they know something) where on the hierarchy of opinions (i.e. rat droppings) their opinions lie.

 

[Carnac]

I agree excitement is justified. Calling Liv unserviceable seems a bit harsh though. Calling for Dorka to start after watching one game against a D2 opponent is an exaggeration.
Let’s see how they both fair in the tournament. I’d love for Dorka to prove she’s better than Liv, that’s only going to make us that much better. I just haven’t seen enough yet. They looked pretty even in the exhibition against a much lesser opponent, they just have different styles.

Remember what Geno said before the exhibition game, Dorka will play!! I predict she’ll get starter’s minutes whether she starts or not.

She averaged a double double for Ohio State. She’s already proven herself. Why wouldn’t she do the same for us? If any player at any position can give you a double double on a regular basis, you have to play her.

If she continues to perform as she did against FHS, there’s no way Geno can keep her on the bench. If Dorka cuts into Liv’s playing time, it’s not personal, it’s just business.

 

[Carnac]

I believe we all might share a concern about Dorka and her 54 percent career shooting at the free-throw line heading there down the stretch of a big game. However, it's noteworthy that Olivia's 55.8 is scarcely better. Let's hope they find an improved touch at the line this season, 'cause they're both likely to be spending a goodly share of time there.

This is my first post. I've read and enjoyed the BY's thoughtful, often humorous and, dare I say, sometimes both insightful and inciteful narratives. At my age, it's pretty cool to be a rookie at anything again!

By the way, as you might have gathered from the Deacon, I have an allegiance to Wake Forest. Yet rest assured, since the days of Lobo, Rizzotti & Co., come winter season my heart belongs to the Huskies

Welcome to the other side of the boneyard. The side that joins in and contributes to the debates and discussions. We look forward to your takes and observations this year.

 

[oldude]

it’s not personal, it’s just business.

Thank you Don Vito, and may all your grandchildren be masculine ones.

 

[Carnac]

Thank you Don Vito, and may all your grandchildren be masculine ones.

OD, I’m very careful in how I word my comments. I’m not calling for or advocating for the demotion of Liv, or any other players. Water seeks its own level. The players that are most deserving to play will play. That’s the case on any team. I have no preference, I’ll take what comes, and root for whoever is on the floor at any given time. In Geno I trust.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

It's not good, but it doesn't come close to comparing to what it was like back in the day with Conlon.

Let me point out that an actual expert, Coach Geno, commented that Gabriel had made great strides over the summer in her performance. She was always seen as a long-term project, but she was actively recruited by UConn. Gabriel is a muscular 6'5". And let's not forget how ONO plays. She is not a strong rebounder against good post players. Even against smaller players she habitually allows herself to be blocked out from the offensive boards. And against Fort Hays she did what she always does- stood at the 20' line and let fly. She's not an outside shooter. But that's, as Megan Culmo says, "what she's comfortable doing." Dorka was so much more mobile, more aggressive on the boards, and quicker than ONO. Over 18 minutes, ONO had five rebounds; over 15 minutes, Dorka pulled down eight. 15 points for Dorka; 8 points for ONO in three more minutes. A block for Dorka; none for ONO.

Whether ONO continues to start isn't really the question. The question is who will be in there when it counts? I'm guessing it won't be ONO.

 

[oldude]

OD, I’m very careful in how I word my comments. I’m not calling for or advocating for the demotion of Liv, or any other players. Water seeks its own level. The players that are most deserving to play will play. That’s the case on any team. I have no preference, I’ll take what comes, and root for whoever is on the floor at any given time. In Geno I trust.

I’m rooting for both to succeed, as I know you are as well. I do believe some folks have unfortunately taken sides in this debate, making it personal at times. As Paige stated, “It doesn’t diminish me to help others succeed,” or something to that effect.

 

[Waquoit]

Her right to play whatever position/status her coach determines she should play without constantly being put down by fair weather fans who can’t wait to see her replaced by the newer, shinier toy that has come along

This is more demeaning and insulting to Dorka than anything I have read on the Boneyard about Ono.

 

[CocoHusky]

Yes! Especially when posters on a message board who mostly never coached anything beyond "possibly" their own kids in a rec league, let alone a storied Div 1 team, are questioning a 11 time NC, hall of fame, USA NT coach on who should be in his starting line-up.

People can post what they want. They just need to be reminded now and then (especially when they think they know something) where on the hierarchy of opinions (i.e. rat droppings) their opinions lie.

There is no hierarchy of opinions on the BY-that is a beautiful thing. Geno doesn't post here. Geno actions, credentials, & decisions are completely independent of BY gibberish-thank God. When Geno credentials or his name is presented to support a posters BY argument one of our distinguished moderators call that a "conversation stopper". @HuskyNan

 

[mbr33ct]

honestly seems to be a competition of who gets more scrutiny, Williams or Olivia. Glad they are both best friends and roommates, I'm sure no doubt that they help lift each other with all this unnecessary noise. No idea why some just want to get rid of someone who played here all 3 seasons, no problems from what I can tell on or off the court. I admit I have not watched many big 10 wbb games in the past but I musta missed Dorka and her huge impact on Ohio st considering they went an incredible 13-7 and finished 7th in the conference. I am going to stick with the player that brought me to the dance.

Let me introduce Megan Walker, bless her soul she decided to take her game to the WNBA one year early, (maybe she did read the Boneyard) ...is the "open" Anna Makurat still waiting for a pass from Megan? was the best one of many I heard over and over again here. Now it's on Williams and ONO to carry that burden for some on the Boneyard. As far as the stats that were provided between ONO and Dorka, what can you say it's comparing oranges to apples except both are 6'-5" tall. In Dorka's case at Ohio State, she may have been first or second option on the team to score. On UConn's team...first, second, third options usually relegated to back court players. Just providing career stats, as of last year, of both players. Basic stats except added PTS/40 MIN and TRB 40/MIN columns.

 

[Stymie]

It makes no difference who starts. It's who gets the most PT. Dorka can play in her current role and be a huge plus for this team. When crunch time hits against the great teams she will get a lot of minutes.

I’d MUCH prefer rebounding and defense from the bigs.
Got plenty of scoring elsewhere.

 

[CocoHusky]

I had a thought watching SC against NC State last night. WE had a classic match-up of Boston vs. Cunane and sometimes with Cardosa. For the most part defense ruled, in other words when facing off against another very talented big performer, they couldn't dominate or do much offensively compared to what they normally do.

Obviously this board is well aware of how Liv's offensive output falls off a cliff against the top bigs, but based on Dorka's numbers in the past it has happened to her too, maybe not as much as Liv, but still a pretty big drop-off. So when I see top ranked bigs having trouble scoring against each other last night I wondered, maybe that is a more normal circumstance than we imagine.

Very good and talented C's are very very rare. They probably go thru most seasons like Liv pilling up big numbers with easy close baskets against players not nearly as big or good. Then they play a comparable player and those easy offensive rebound put-backs disappear, they might be shocked by getting a shot blocked, the same moves that worked with ease don't work anymore against tough competition. In many ways, for them it is entirely different situation that they face only a few times a year.

The only time they will face regular competition like that, is when they are in the WNBA. The players at other positions see talented opposition the same size far more often. But 6-5 and talented doesn't happen very often, so maybe they don't develop alternatives or counter moves against players of similar ability and size because they face it so rarely, and against 90% of their opponents they can just go with what works against smaller defenders.

NC Sate and SC also played during the 20-21 season and both Cunane and Boston struggled in that game as well 3 for 13 and 4 for 14 respectively. Your premise (bigs struggle against other bigs and pile up numbers against other ) is not as applicable to Liv. Two of Liv's most notable struggles last season were in UCONN loses against Arkansas and Arizona. In the Arizona game Liv was matched up against 6'0" Baptize and 6'2"Cate Reese. Against Arkansas Liv was matched up against Taylah Thomas who is generously listed at 6'1" but she ain't.

 

[PvP]

Her right to play whatever position/status her coach determines she should play without constantly being put down by fair weather fans who can’t wait to see her replaced by the newer, shinier toy that has come along. May I remind everyone that Geno (he of the 11 national championships) will decide who starts and how many minutes etc, etc! Good lord, some on this board just seem so unaware that we don’t see most of what he sees and have no idea of all the intangibles and personalities and chemistry issues that have to be blended together to produce all those championships! Can’t we all just trust Geno et al and enjoy this season? Whether Dorka starts or not has zero to do with whether we win the NC this season! She is going to get lots of minutes and will likely be a key piece in a potential championship! Isn’t that enough?

So we all should close down this OPINION site? We are not entitled to express our OPINIONS? Jeeez....

 

[huskiemaniac]

I'm glad we have both players on the roster and that there is a healthy competition for court time. The team is much better because of it.

Now let's go kick Arkansas' @ss.

 

[Carnac]

My father would always tell me that work does not care who gets it done. I’ll bet Geno feels the same way when we are on offense, as long as the ball goes through the hoop before we go back on defense, why should he care who scores?

 

[eebmg]

I'm glad we have both players on the roster and that there is a healthy competition for court time. The team is much better because of it.

Now let's go kick Arkansas' @ss.

Had to double check I was still on the BY site.

 

[Cuango]

This is more demeaning and insulting to Dorka than anything I have read on the Boneyard about Ono.

In what way?