Baylor Recruiting Violations

[easttexastrash]

That and the fact that even the most obnoxious person is not obnoxious 24/7 and has, on occasion, something worth listening to. Besides: patience is, indeed, a virtue.

Tell my ex that...

My use of the Ignore button is for self preservation. Thank you to whoever added that feature.

 

[easttexastrash]

Unless I am totally misreading things - this is the penalty phase, expected to be anounced shortly. The investigation is done - we may or may not know all the details, but they are not investigating anything more at this time.

Per one of the "insiders" on Sportscenter, who supposedly talked to someone involved at the NCAA, suspensions for Mulkey are the only (potential) anticipated NCAA addition to the self imposed penalties. Comment was also that July recruiting ban was "symbolic" - she wouldn't actually be "recruiting" in a direct sense, instead, she would be "showing face" in July to help the process. Not this year, apparently.

Well, if she has to skip a month of "showing face" this is certain the best year.

 

[Icebear]

From ESPN comes the following information for what it is worth.

"The NCAA's probe of Baylor began in October 2008, when women's basketball player of the year Griner, then a high school senior, and her father, Ray, reported information concerning their contacts with members of the women's basketball staff that were potentially impermissible.
Griner and her father provided the information during an interview with the NCAA enforcement staff in conjunction with the NCAA Top Prospect Program. The now-defunct program required staff members to interview top high school girls' and boys' basketball and football players in the nation."

"Impermissible contact between Mulkey and Griner is among the secondary violations detailed in the report. During Baylor's 2007 women's basketball elite camp, members of the coaching staff spoke with the Griners about the basketball program, academic requirements and the school in general both before and after the camp -- a violation of NCAA rules.
Also, during the spring and summer of 2008, Mulkey had impermissible contact with Griner's father when the coach and parent sat by one another at various AAU games and discussed what Brittney's experience would be like at Baylor. Brittney Griner played on the same AAU squad as Mulkey's daughter, Makenzie Robertson. Brittney Griner and Robertson are currently teammates at Baylor."


Clearly, the situation for Mulkey involves supposedly inappropriate contact as provided by the Griners as part of the Top Prospects review program. The Griners likely did not know it was inappropriate contact and in making the information known to the NCAA gave testimony to the inappropriate contact. Question is why the NCAA waited until now 4 years later to bring this forward. If action have been taken earlier effective penalty might have been possible. It is hard to believe this type of contact is considered a secondary violation since it clearly provides an advantage in recruiting.

 

[UConnCat]

Here is Mechelle Voepel's take: http://espn.go.com/womens-college-b...m-mulkey-baylor-lady-bears-staff-more-careful.

Mechelle makes some of the same points made above by first-time poster HelloKitty:

Many of the women's hoops coaches I've talked to about the Griner situation thought that Mulkey used her situation as a club-team parent to work around the rules about her contact with the Griner family. Do those coaches have self-interest in viewing it this way? Yes. But do they also have a valid point? Yes, again.

Admittedly, it's not as if Mulkey somehow could have plotted years in advance to have her only daughter be around the same age as Griner -- obviously, that's preposterous -- or that this is a perpetual advantage Mulkey will have in the recruiting process.

Still, six players from DFW Elite -- Griner, Robertson, Odyssey Sims, Kimetria Hayden, Jordan Madden, and Brooklyn Pope -- were on Baylor's NCAA title team this season. Yes, that's four of Baylor's five starters.

***​

To be fair, Mulkey's dual roles as parent of a recruitable player and coach of Baylor's women's program did put her in a potentially difficult-to-navigate position. Still, she should have steered far clear of any conceivable impermissible contact with other DFW Elite parents while at club-team games. It would appear that's the NCAA's view as well. Is that entirely fair or reasonable? I think so. Is it a mild breach of the rules or something more severe? That's going to be the NCAA's call.

Regarding the impermissible calls/texts, Mechelle writes that some were made by Mulkey (in 2008) but most (in 2008 and 2011) were by the former AAU coach McKinney:

Between April-November 2008 (when Griner was transitioning from junior to senior in high school), the Baylor women's hoops staff made 74 calls and sent 24 text messages to recruits and/or their parents that were deemed impermissible. Assistant Damion McKinney was responsible for 38 of the calls and eight texts. Mulkey had 22 calls and four texts. The rest were made by other staff members.

 

[pap49cba]

Funny how all of the DFW Elite kids decided Baylor was the place for them. A coincidence, perhaps, but not sure it passes the smell test.

 

[meyers7]

But as for this morning--120 bright-eyed students merit my attention.

Later

Wow, you get bright eyed students? Where do you teach?

 

[bschwartz]

To steal a movie line: If you ask Kim, I am willing to wager that she'd say that "the juice was worth the squeeze."

 

[UConnCat]

Funny how all of the DFW Elite kids decided Baylor was the place for them. A coincidence, perhaps, but not sure it passes the smell test.

What's not known currently is whether Mulkey had conversations with the parents of other DFW Elite kids similar to those she had with Griner's parents. The NCAA knows of the conversations w/ Griner's parents at the AAU events because of the interviews with the Griners. What about the other DFW Elite kids who played with her daughter? Did she sit next to and have conversations about playing for Baylor with the parents of Simms, Madden, Hayden and Pope? Will the NCAA investigate whether those contacts occurred?

Again, this is what Mechelle wrote:

To be fair, Mulkey's dual roles as parent of a recruitable player and coach of Baylor's women's program did put her in a potentially difficult-to-navigate position. Still, she should have steered far clear of any conceivable impermissible contact with other DFW Elite parents while at club-team games. It would appear that's the NCAA's view as well. Is that entirely fair or reasonable? I think so. Is it a mild breach of the rules or something more severe? That's going to be the NCAA's call.

 

[easttexastrash]

What's not known currently is whether Mulkey had conversations with the parents of other DFW Elite kids similar to those she had with Griner's parents. The NCAA knows of the conversations w/ Griner's parents at the AAU events because of the interviews with the Griners. What about the other DFW Elite kids who played with her daughter? Did she sit next to and have conversations about playing for Baylor with the parents of Simms, Madden, Hayden and Pope? Will the NCAA investigate whether those contacts occurred?

Again, this is what Mechelle wrote:

To be fair, Mulkey's dual roles as parent of a recruitable player and coach of Baylor's women's program did put her in a potentially difficult-to-navigate position. Still, she should have steered far clear of any conceivable impermissible contact with other DFW Elite parents while at club-team games. It would appear that's the NCAA's view as well. Is that entirely fair or reasonable? I think so. Is it a mild breach of the rules or something more severe? That's going to be the NCAA's call.

I suspect that the NCAA has made a full investigation. I doubt that they are going to deliver sanctions this week and then go back and conduct additional investigations at a later date. What we see this week is probably all that we will see from this situation.

Can you really consider Pope in this discussion considering that she went to Rutgers before landing at Baylor? Obviously, the connection was not enough to influence Pope when she exited high school.

 

[Replicant]

• 1200+ violations!
• Over 2-1/2 year span!
• NCAA deemed "major violations"!

As one of my favorite Texans would sing:

 

[easttexastrash]

If Mulkey did indeed use her connection with DFW Elite to work around the recruiting rules then she should be punished to the full extent of the NCAA rules. I am very disappointed that Mulkey and her staff have put a black eye on what was the shining start of the athletic department.

 

[pinotbear]

Wow, you get bright eyed students? Where do you teach?

I wuz thinkin' along the same line, Meyers: if you got 120 bright-eyed students, ya must be teachin' at least a few hundred in total!

 

[UConnCat]

I suspect that the NCAA has made a full investigation. I doubt that they are going to deliver sanctions this week and then go back and conduct additional investigations at a later date. What we see this week is probably all that we will see from this situation.

Can you really consider Pope in this discussion considering that she went to Rutgers before landing at Baylor? Obviously, the connection was not enough to influence Pope when she exited high school.

Regarding Pope, a violation is a violation regardless of whether it leads to a recruit's commitment.

As for whether a full NCAA investigation has already occurred, I guess we'll have to wait and see whether that's the case.

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

I wuz thinkin' along the same line, Meyers: if you got 120 bright-eyed students, ya must be teachin' at least a few hundred in total!

I wuz thinkin' along the same line, Meyers: if you got 120 bright-eyed students, ya must be teachin' at least a few hundred in total!

As a Prof, you need to drop into the Belly of The Beast…walk up the aisles, ask questions, and look right in the retina…then you assess brightness.

 

[Bestiarius]

Wow, you get bright eyed students? Where do you teach?

Make sure they don't have eyeballs tatooed onto their eyelids.

 

[DaddyChoc]

Funny how all of the DFW Elite kids decided Baylor was the place for them. A coincidence, perhaps, but not sure it passes the smell test.

all under Damion McKinney AAU coaching who now has a job at baylor

 

[easttexastrash]

If Baylor were to receive a "no post-season play" sanction I suspect that Griner may reconsider going pro. What comes out in the next week could have a major impact on her decision.

Thoughts on that possibility?

 

[Icebear]

Still, six players from DFW Elite -- Griner, Robertson, Odyssey Sims, Kimetria Hayden, Jordan Madden, and Brooklyn Pope -- were on Baylor's NCAA title team this season. Yes, that's four of Baylor's five starters.

This alone should have demanded the closest of examination.How often have so many players from a single AAU program ended up at a single school. If none, then why this one.

As I said, Kim is not the only or first coach men's or women's to find themselves in the role of parent and potential recruiter. Refusing to sit with parents of potential recruits should have been a no brainer.

Since this dates back to 2008 I still want to know how this took so long to come to light.

 

[Replicant]

If Baylor were to receive a "no post-season play" sanction I suspect that Griner may reconsider going pro. What comes out in the next week could have a major impact on her decision.

Thoughts on that possibility?

Rarely does the NCAA come down on the side of mercy when dispensing punishment.

I can't imagine a scenario that won't end (very) badly for Baylor given the scope of the violations and the length of time over which they transpired. Those elements point to a habitual disregard and flaunting of the rules that the NCAA can't accept.

I would assume the Baylor programs will receive penalties equal to, if not far greater than those handed to the UConn Men. Beyond prohibition from NCAA and/or Big 12 tourneys for "x" numbers of years, forfeiture of scholarships, firings and/or game bans for coaches, the forfeiture of the NCAA championship may not be out of the realm of possibility.

Given part or all of that as a potential backdrop, I don't see how Britney would stay. If she were my daughter, I'd strongly advise her to go pro. This is her time in the Sun and these moments are always fleeting. Britney needs to keep moving forward even (and especially) if Baylor BB cannot.

 

[Replicant]

all under Damion McKinney AAU coaching who now has a job at baylor

Could this quid pro quo be more obvious!

 

[hoopsdiva]

If Baylor were to receive a "no post-season play" sanction I suspect that Griner may reconsider going pro. What comes out in the next week could have a major impact on her decision.

Thoughts on that possibility?

The NCAA would have to act awfully quickly. The WNBA draft is set for 04/16 (next Monday), and although I'm not sure whether there is a deadline for declaring one's eligibility for the draft, I doubt that it would be Monday morning. I just don't see the NCAA pushing its timeframe to make a decision in order to accommodate BG, even though it might be a factor in her decisions about her future.

Even if Baylor were prohibited from post-season play, I can't picture that affecting BG's draftability next year. She's just too unique a player to ignore, even if she isn't seen in the post season.

 

[justML]

If Mulkey did indeed use her connection with DFW Elite to work around the recruiting rules then she should be punished to the full extent of the NCAA rules. I am very disappointed that Mulkey and her staff have put a black eye on what was the shining start of the athletic department.

I feel badly for you Baylor fans also. It was such a phenomenal season and you should still be riding that high; not having to deal with this right now.

Personally, I give you a lot of credit for trying to remain cool-headed and not looking at the situation only through gold and green tinted glasses - something that can be difficult for fans of any program to do.

 

[justML]

If Baylor were to receive a "no post-season play" sanction I suspect that Griner may reconsider going pro. What comes out in the next week could have a major impact on her decision.

Thoughts on that possibility?

I thought to enter the WNBA the player needed to graduate from college (or be 4 years removed from HS) or be 22 years old.

Has that changed?

 

[5sidedlarry]

I feel badly for you Baylor fans also. It was such a phenomenal season and you should still be riding that high; not having to deal with this right now.

Personally, I give you a lot of credit for trying to remain cool-headed and not looking at the situation only through gold and green tinted glasses - something that can be difficult for fans of any program to do.

this is very sad because just when womens basketball is starting to show signs of having more colleges being competive this happens.. i really feel bad for coaches fans and players..i hope other colleges are watching what is happening

 

[5sidedlarry]

Rarely does the NCAA come down on the side of mercy when dispensing punishment.

I can't imagine a scenario that won't end (very) badly for Baylor given the scope of the violations and the length of time over which they transpired. Those elements point to a habitual disregard and flaunting of the rules that the NCAA can't accept.

I would assume the Baylor programs will receive penalties equal to, if not far greater than those handed to the UConn Men. Beyond prohibition from NCAA and/or Big 12 tourneys for "x" numbers of years, forfeiture of scholarships, firings and/or game bans for coaches, the forfeiture of the NCAA championship may not be out of the realm of possibility.

Given part or all of that as a potential backdrop, I don't see how Britney would stay. If she were my daughter, I'd strongly advise her to go pro. This is her time in the Sun and these moments are always fleeting. Britney needs to keep moving forward even (and especially) if Baylor BB cannot.

what do you mean you have seen things that were bad ..like what ,iam just curious what you mean

i wish i could get the whole story of what really happen, i know about the 1200 phone calls and some one mentioned about the coach using some organzion to work around recuriting but thats it

 

[Replicant]

what do you mean you have seen things that were bad ..like what ,iam just curious what you mean

i wish i could get the whole story of what really happen, i know about the 1200 phone calls and some one mentioned about the coach using some organzion to work around recuriting but thats it

LOL...the line "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe " is my standard Boneyard quote/tagline that appears at the bottom of all my postings. It's a line borrowed from the movie Blade Runner and isn't a reference to anything in this thread!

That doesn't mean that I haven't seen things you people wouldn't believe.

I'm basing my pessimism for Baylor's coming punishment/s based on the ESPN article of the NCAA investigation (see link in OP). Here's a few excerpts that I found particularly damning:

"The men's and women's basketball programs at Baylor University are facing possible NCAA sanctions following an investigation that uncovered more than 1,200 impermissible phone calls and text messages during a 29-month span."

"The NCAA enforcement staff labeled the improprieties as "major violations," mainly because of the frequency with which they occurred."

"Combined, the men's and women's basketball programs sent 738 impermissible text messages and made 528 impermissible calls over a span of nearly 2½ years."

 

[easttexastrash]

BG verballed very early. It is possible that the players from DFW Elite wanted to stay together and follow BG wherever she was going. I would have.

Kim was absolutely in an advantageous position but I bet that the rest of those players may have gone elsewhere had BG not chosen Baylor. BG's dad said once that he would only let her play for Pat or Kim and that Tennessee was too far away.

 

[pppggg]

Did Griner get a tour of the ESPN studios? NO
Will Geno drop Baylor from the schedule? NO
Will Giener play next year? Yes
That put a rap on it as far as I am concerned.

 

[sarals24]

Wonder if Pat and Co will drop Baylor from their schedule?

 

[easttexastrash]

Did Griner get a tour of the ESPN studios? NO
Will Geno drop Baylor from the schedule? NO
Will Giener play next year? Yes
That put a rap on it as far as I am concerned.

This!