Baylor Recruiting Violations

[Icebear]

I said point blank that I dont know if there is more to it and there could be. If there is the Mulkey should be subject to whatever the NCAA rules stipulate. I have no intentions of defending anything until all the facts are presented. Who knows what people are capable of.

But I will say that the other posters post has the stench of a bitter rival. It's loaded with unfounded innuendo.

Actually, I think most here are very reserved about the issue. Saying things are wrong, saying they deserve to be found out and if true punished, questioning the real impact of the self-imposed penalties, saying the issues are not comparable to the ESPN/Moore issue, and even noting consequences of actions is hardly a stench. It is a discussion of something newly reported.

Nan is correct the issue of institutional control is a significant one and one that UConn has in fact had to review and address following the events in the men's program.

 

[easttexastrash]

For the record I am Not stating that Mulkey may not be guilty of violations. I learned a long time ago that people are capable of things you would never think they would do. Nothing surprises me anymore.

 

[easttexastrash]

At this point my stance is to wait and see what the results of the NCAA probe are and base my opinion on those results. I will be truly disappointed if Mulkey has violated NCAA rules.

 

[DaddyChoc]

EastTrash here are DD post about your response to HelloKitty's post (sorry DD, since he has you ignore)

Try addressing each point instead of calling it sour grapes. Lots of fact in that post.

Please....it's a parent of a player who has inside info and an opinion. You don't like the message, that is clear. But your statements are much move provocative than her post.

 

[meyers7]

As for DD's post, I haven't seen anything he has written in a long time. The "Ignore" button is a beautiful thing.

I've never used that. Figure it helps me learn patience.

 

[easttexastrash]

Let me also share a different "perspective." The amount of bitterness and competition in Texas between universities is indescribable for those who haven't been a part of it. The only way I can describe it is to take Tennessee's bitterness toward UCONN and multiply it by 4 (TTU, TAMU, UT and OU). I say 4 because it also bleeds across the border into Oklahoma. So excuse me for being able to spot the pattern of accusation and innuendo that I see all the time on the boards of those other universities. I suspect that most UCONN fans would be able to spot a post by a bitter Tennessee fan from a mile away.

 

[HuskyNan]

Posters in this thread don't seem to be condemning Baylor but rather mulling over what information we have available to us. That would include the post by HelloKitty. I understand Baylor fans' concern for the Lady Bears and your desire for us to see the program in a positive light but yelling at folks here isn't going to do anything more than annoy those that would like to come to their own conclusions.

Please don't take my comments as a desire for anyone to stop engaging us in converstaion. I'm personally very happy we have such great visitors from other teams and the Baylor fans that come here have been excellent additions to our community. I would just like to gently remind others that we are UConn fans and we may not always share your point of view, frustrating as that may be for our non-UConn fan friends.

 

[VAMike23]

I live in TX and my daughter is a high school basketball player. She is not an elite talent, will not play in college, and does not play for an AAU team. But I know parents of girls that are, will, and do. The following is some information you might want to consider in forming your opinions on potential Baylor violations.

Good luck to UConn and their team next year. I have long been a fan of your program, and after watching the McD's game, believe you are putting together something special, yet again.

Thanks for the very thoughtful post. Both the info and the tone are welcome additions here.

 

[Blakeon18]

Just trying to get up to speed on this:

Did I read/hear that the Baylor men have already been punished by permitting them to play
zero OOC games next year? If so...that strikes me as a weird penalty...a significant one but a weird one.


I would think [hope] that this would not impact Brittney's selection for the Olympic team...either pro or con.
I think she is a virtual lock to be #12.

Given that the NCAA 'might' impose further penalties on the women's team and given that their investigations
tend to go on a while...toss in appeals...might Baylor simply not be sure that they are eligible for the NCAA tournament
come September?

 

[Icebear]

Given that the NCAA 'might' impose further penalties on the women's team and given that their investigations
tend to go on a while...toss in appeals...might Baylor simply not be sure that they are eligible for the NCAA tournament
come September?

My admittedly spotty recollection of that type of thing, blake, is that once a season starts or maybe a school year the NCAA tends to impose the penalty in the following year. Anyone else remember anything different?

 

[doggydaddy]

Posters in this thread don't seem to be condemning Baylor but rather mulling over what information we have available to us. That would include the post by HelloKitty. I understand Baylor fans' concern for the Lady Bears and your desire for us to see the program in a positive light but yelling at folks here isn't going to do anything more than annoy those that would like to come to their own conclusions.

Please don't take my comments as a desire for anyone to stop engaging us in converstaion. I'm personally very happy we have such great visitors from other teams and the Baylor fans that come here have been excellent additions to our community. I would just like to gently remind others that we are UConn fans and we may not always share your point of view, frustrating as that may be for our non-UConn fan friends.

I totally understand the defensive posture of the Baylor fans, even the one that is ignoring me. We would do the same thing about UConn.

I know you will hate this Nan, but contrast the Boneyards fair response to this situation with the orange response, who can only post by calling Baylor "cheaters" and make post after post about Maya's mom and her co-op handbags.

 

[HuskyNan]

I totally understand the defensive posture of the Baylor fans, even the one that is ignoring me. We would do the same thing about UConn.

Quite true, but I hope that if UConn fans were defending the Huskies on the Baylor board they would be courteous of the Lady Bears fan base and allow them to reach their own conclusions.

know you will hate this Nan, but contrast the Boneyards fair response to this situation with the orange response, who can only post by calling Baylor "cheaters" and make post after post about Maya's mom and her co-op handbags.

I don't consider The Tin Foil Hatters' behavior a proper yardstick for my own. My apologies to those fans that have not drunk the Kook-Aid over there.

 

[baylorprof]

Greetings to the New Englanders,

I'll be glad to be as objective a Baylor source as is possible, but I declare right up front I am a Kim Mulkey supporter while at the same time have reservations about how Scott Drew always seems to work on the edge of propriety.

And, as of this morning after, we dont' know any more down here than you know via ESPN up there.

We've only had this open announcement for 24 hours. First responses typically would not be wise. In a day or two as this thing begins to shake out, I'll be glad to com back and dialogue from the perspective of a Bear fan.

But as for this morning--120 bright-eyed students merit my attention.

Later

 

[Husky7882]

I've never used that. Figure it helps me learn patience.

That and the fact that even the most obnoxious person is not obnoxious 24/7 and has, on occasion, something worth listening to. Besides: patience is, indeed, a virtue.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Unless I am totally misreading things - this is the penalty phase, expected to be anounced shortly. The investigation is done - we may or may not know all the details, but they are not investigating anything more at this time.

Per one of the "insiders" on Sportscenter, who supposedly talked to someone involved at the NCAA, suspensions for Mulkey are the only (potential) anticipated NCAA addition to the self imposed penalties. Comment was also that July recruiting ban was "symbolic" - she wouldn't actually be "recruiting" in a direct sense, instead, she would be "showing face" in July to help the process. Not this year, apparently.

 

[easttexastrash]

That and the fact that even the most obnoxious person is not obnoxious 24/7 and has, on occasion, something worth listening to. Besides: patience is, indeed, a virtue.

Tell my ex that...

My use of the Ignore button is for self preservation. Thank you to whoever added that feature.

 

[easttexastrash]

Unless I am totally misreading things - this is the penalty phase, expected to be anounced shortly. The investigation is done - we may or may not know all the details, but they are not investigating anything more at this time.

Per one of the "insiders" on Sportscenter, who supposedly talked to someone involved at the NCAA, suspensions for Mulkey are the only (potential) anticipated NCAA addition to the self imposed penalties. Comment was also that July recruiting ban was "symbolic" - she wouldn't actually be "recruiting" in a direct sense, instead, she would be "showing face" in July to help the process. Not this year, apparently.

Well, if she has to skip a month of "showing face" this is certain the best year.

 

[Icebear]

From ESPN comes the following information for what it is worth.

"The NCAA's probe of Baylor began in October 2008, when women's basketball player of the year Griner, then a high school senior, and her father, Ray, reported information concerning their contacts with members of the women's basketball staff that were potentially impermissible.
Griner and her father provided the information during an interview with the NCAA enforcement staff in conjunction with the NCAA Top Prospect Program. The now-defunct program required staff members to interview top high school girls' and boys' basketball and football players in the nation."

"Impermissible contact between Mulkey and Griner is among the secondary violations detailed in the report. During Baylor's 2007 women's basketball elite camp, members of the coaching staff spoke with the Griners about the basketball program, academic requirements and the school in general both before and after the camp -- a violation of NCAA rules.
Also, during the spring and summer of 2008, Mulkey had impermissible contact with Griner's father when the coach and parent sat by one another at various AAU games and discussed what Brittney's experience would be like at Baylor. Brittney Griner played on the same AAU squad as Mulkey's daughter, Makenzie Robertson. Brittney Griner and Robertson are currently teammates at Baylor."


Clearly, the situation for Mulkey involves supposedly inappropriate contact as provided by the Griners as part of the Top Prospects review program. The Griners likely did not know it was inappropriate contact and in making the information known to the NCAA gave testimony to the inappropriate contact. Question is why the NCAA waited until now 4 years later to bring this forward. If action have been taken earlier effective penalty might have been possible. It is hard to believe this type of contact is considered a secondary violation since it clearly provides an advantage in recruiting.

 

[UConnCat]

Here is Mechelle Voepel's take: http://espn.go.com/womens-college-b...m-mulkey-baylor-lady-bears-staff-more-careful.

Mechelle makes some of the same points made above by first-time poster HelloKitty:

Many of the women's hoops coaches I've talked to about the Griner situation thought that Mulkey used her situation as a club-team parent to work around the rules about her contact with the Griner family. Do those coaches have self-interest in viewing it this way? Yes. But do they also have a valid point? Yes, again.

Admittedly, it's not as if Mulkey somehow could have plotted years in advance to have her only daughter be around the same age as Griner -- obviously, that's preposterous -- or that this is a perpetual advantage Mulkey will have in the recruiting process.

Still, six players from DFW Elite -- Griner, Robertson, Odyssey Sims, Kimetria Hayden, Jordan Madden, and Brooklyn Pope -- were on Baylor's NCAA title team this season. Yes, that's four of Baylor's five starters.

***​

To be fair, Mulkey's dual roles as parent of a recruitable player and coach of Baylor's women's program did put her in a potentially difficult-to-navigate position. Still, she should have steered far clear of any conceivable impermissible contact with other DFW Elite parents while at club-team games. It would appear that's the NCAA's view as well. Is that entirely fair or reasonable? I think so. Is it a mild breach of the rules or something more severe? That's going to be the NCAA's call.

Regarding the impermissible calls/texts, Mechelle writes that some were made by Mulkey (in 2008) but most (in 2008 and 2011) were by the former AAU coach McKinney:

Between April-November 2008 (when Griner was transitioning from junior to senior in high school), the Baylor women's hoops staff made 74 calls and sent 24 text messages to recruits and/or their parents that were deemed impermissible. Assistant Damion McKinney was responsible for 38 of the calls and eight texts. Mulkey had 22 calls and four texts. The rest were made by other staff members.

 

[pap49cba]

Funny how all of the DFW Elite kids decided Baylor was the place for them. A coincidence, perhaps, but not sure it passes the smell test.

 

[meyers7]

But as for this morning--120 bright-eyed students merit my attention.

Later

Wow, you get bright eyed students? Where do you teach?

 

[bschwartz]

To steal a movie line: If you ask Kim, I am willing to wager that she'd say that "the juice was worth the squeeze."

 

[UConnCat]

Funny how all of the DFW Elite kids decided Baylor was the place for them. A coincidence, perhaps, but not sure it passes the smell test.

What's not known currently is whether Mulkey had conversations with the parents of other DFW Elite kids similar to those she had with Griner's parents. The NCAA knows of the conversations w/ Griner's parents at the AAU events because of the interviews with the Griners. What about the other DFW Elite kids who played with her daughter? Did she sit next to and have conversations about playing for Baylor with the parents of Simms, Madden, Hayden and Pope? Will the NCAA investigate whether those contacts occurred?

Again, this is what Mechelle wrote:

To be fair, Mulkey's dual roles as parent of a recruitable player and coach of Baylor's women's program did put her in a potentially difficult-to-navigate position. Still, she should have steered far clear of any conceivable impermissible contact with other DFW Elite parents while at club-team games. It would appear that's the NCAA's view as well. Is that entirely fair or reasonable? I think so. Is it a mild breach of the rules or something more severe? That's going to be the NCAA's call.

 

[easttexastrash]

What's not known currently is whether Mulkey had conversations with the parents of other DFW Elite kids similar to those she had with Griner's parents. The NCAA knows of the conversations w/ Griner's parents at the AAU events because of the interviews with the Griners. What about the other DFW Elite kids who played with her daughter? Did she sit next to and have conversations about playing for Baylor with the parents of Simms, Madden, Hayden and Pope? Will the NCAA investigate whether those contacts occurred?

Again, this is what Mechelle wrote:

To be fair, Mulkey's dual roles as parent of a recruitable player and coach of Baylor's women's program did put her in a potentially difficult-to-navigate position. Still, she should have steered far clear of any conceivable impermissible contact with other DFW Elite parents while at club-team games. It would appear that's the NCAA's view as well. Is that entirely fair or reasonable? I think so. Is it a mild breach of the rules or something more severe? That's going to be the NCAA's call.

I suspect that the NCAA has made a full investigation. I doubt that they are going to deliver sanctions this week and then go back and conduct additional investigations at a later date. What we see this week is probably all that we will see from this situation.

Can you really consider Pope in this discussion considering that she went to Rutgers before landing at Baylor? Obviously, the connection was not enough to influence Pope when she exited high school.

 

[Replicant]

• 1200+ violations!
• Over 2-1/2 year span!
• NCAA deemed "major violations"!

As one of my favorite Texans would sing: