Baylor Recruiting Violations

[easttexastrash]

If Mulkey did indeed use her connection with DFW Elite to work around the recruiting rules then she should be punished to the full extent of the NCAA rules. I am very disappointed that Mulkey and her staff have put a black eye on what was the shining start of the athletic department.

 

[pinotbear]

Wow, you get bright eyed students? Where do you teach?

I wuz thinkin' along the same line, Meyers: if you got 120 bright-eyed students, ya must be teachin' at least a few hundred in total!

 

[UConnCat]

I suspect that the NCAA has made a full investigation. I doubt that they are going to deliver sanctions this week and then go back and conduct additional investigations at a later date. What we see this week is probably all that we will see from this situation.

Can you really consider Pope in this discussion considering that she went to Rutgers before landing at Baylor? Obviously, the connection was not enough to influence Pope when she exited high school.

Regarding Pope, a violation is a violation regardless of whether it leads to a recruit's commitment.

As for whether a full NCAA investigation has already occurred, I guess we'll have to wait and see whether that's the case.

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

I wuz thinkin' along the same line, Meyers: if you got 120 bright-eyed students, ya must be teachin' at least a few hundred in total!

I wuz thinkin' along the same line, Meyers: if you got 120 bright-eyed students, ya must be teachin' at least a few hundred in total!

As a Prof, you need to drop into the Belly of The Beast…walk up the aisles, ask questions, and look right in the retina…then you assess brightness.

 

[Bestiarius]

Wow, you get bright eyed students? Where do you teach?

Make sure they don't have eyeballs tatooed onto their eyelids.

 

[DaddyChoc]

Funny how all of the DFW Elite kids decided Baylor was the place for them. A coincidence, perhaps, but not sure it passes the smell test.

all under Damion McKinney AAU coaching who now has a job at baylor

 

[easttexastrash]

If Baylor were to receive a "no post-season play" sanction I suspect that Griner may reconsider going pro. What comes out in the next week could have a major impact on her decision.

Thoughts on that possibility?

 

[Icebear]

Still, six players from DFW Elite -- Griner, Robertson, Odyssey Sims, Kimetria Hayden, Jordan Madden, and Brooklyn Pope -- were on Baylor's NCAA title team this season. Yes, that's four of Baylor's five starters.

This alone should have demanded the closest of examination.How often have so many players from a single AAU program ended up at a single school. If none, then why this one.

As I said, Kim is not the only or first coach men's or women's to find themselves in the role of parent and potential recruiter. Refusing to sit with parents of potential recruits should have been a no brainer.

Since this dates back to 2008 I still want to know how this took so long to come to light.

 

[Replicant]

If Baylor were to receive a "no post-season play" sanction I suspect that Griner may reconsider going pro. What comes out in the next week could have a major impact on her decision.

Thoughts on that possibility?

Rarely does the NCAA come down on the side of mercy when dispensing punishment.

I can't imagine a scenario that won't end (very) badly for Baylor given the scope of the violations and the length of time over which they transpired. Those elements point to a habitual disregard and flaunting of the rules that the NCAA can't accept.

I would assume the Baylor programs will receive penalties equal to, if not far greater than those handed to the UConn Men. Beyond prohibition from NCAA and/or Big 12 tourneys for "x" numbers of years, forfeiture of scholarships, firings and/or game bans for coaches, the forfeiture of the NCAA championship may not be out of the realm of possibility.

Given part or all of that as a potential backdrop, I don't see how Britney would stay. If she were my daughter, I'd strongly advise her to go pro. This is her time in the Sun and these moments are always fleeting. Britney needs to keep moving forward even (and especially) if Baylor BB cannot.

 

[Replicant]

all under Damion McKinney AAU coaching who now has a job at baylor

Could this quid pro quo be more obvious!

 

[hoopsdiva]

If Baylor were to receive a "no post-season play" sanction I suspect that Griner may reconsider going pro. What comes out in the next week could have a major impact on her decision.

Thoughts on that possibility?

The NCAA would have to act awfully quickly. The WNBA draft is set for 04/16 (next Monday), and although I'm not sure whether there is a deadline for declaring one's eligibility for the draft, I doubt that it would be Monday morning. I just don't see the NCAA pushing its timeframe to make a decision in order to accommodate BG, even though it might be a factor in her decisions about her future.

Even if Baylor were prohibited from post-season play, I can't picture that affecting BG's draftability next year. She's just too unique a player to ignore, even if she isn't seen in the post season.

 

[justML]

If Mulkey did indeed use her connection with DFW Elite to work around the recruiting rules then she should be punished to the full extent of the NCAA rules. I am very disappointed that Mulkey and her staff have put a black eye on what was the shining start of the athletic department.

I feel badly for you Baylor fans also. It was such a phenomenal season and you should still be riding that high; not having to deal with this right now.

Personally, I give you a lot of credit for trying to remain cool-headed and not looking at the situation only through gold and green tinted glasses - something that can be difficult for fans of any program to do.

 

[justML]

If Baylor were to receive a "no post-season play" sanction I suspect that Griner may reconsider going pro. What comes out in the next week could have a major impact on her decision.

Thoughts on that possibility?

I thought to enter the WNBA the player needed to graduate from college (or be 4 years removed from HS) or be 22 years old.

Has that changed?

 

[5sidedlarry]

I feel badly for you Baylor fans also. It was such a phenomenal season and you should still be riding that high; not having to deal with this right now.

Personally, I give you a lot of credit for trying to remain cool-headed and not looking at the situation only through gold and green tinted glasses - something that can be difficult for fans of any program to do.

this is very sad because just when womens basketball is starting to show signs of having more colleges being competive this happens.. i really feel bad for coaches fans and players..i hope other colleges are watching what is happening

 

[5sidedlarry]

Rarely does the NCAA come down on the side of mercy when dispensing punishment.

I can't imagine a scenario that won't end (very) badly for Baylor given the scope of the violations and the length of time over which they transpired. Those elements point to a habitual disregard and flaunting of the rules that the NCAA can't accept.

I would assume the Baylor programs will receive penalties equal to, if not far greater than those handed to the UConn Men. Beyond prohibition from NCAA and/or Big 12 tourneys for "x" numbers of years, forfeiture of scholarships, firings and/or game bans for coaches, the forfeiture of the NCAA championship may not be out of the realm of possibility.

Given part or all of that as a potential backdrop, I don't see how Britney would stay. If she were my daughter, I'd strongly advise her to go pro. This is her time in the Sun and these moments are always fleeting. Britney needs to keep moving forward even (and especially) if Baylor BB cannot.

what do you mean you have seen things that were bad ..like what ,iam just curious what you mean

i wish i could get the whole story of what really happen, i know about the 1200 phone calls and some one mentioned about the coach using some organzion to work around recuriting but thats it

 

[Replicant]

what do you mean you have seen things that were bad ..like what ,iam just curious what you mean

i wish i could get the whole story of what really happen, i know about the 1200 phone calls and some one mentioned about the coach using some organzion to work around recuriting but thats it

LOL...the line "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe " is my standard Boneyard quote/tagline that appears at the bottom of all my postings. It's a line borrowed from the movie Blade Runner and isn't a reference to anything in this thread!

That doesn't mean that I haven't seen things you people wouldn't believe.

I'm basing my pessimism for Baylor's coming punishment/s based on the ESPN article of the NCAA investigation (see link in OP). Here's a few excerpts that I found particularly damning:

"The men's and women's basketball programs at Baylor University are facing possible NCAA sanctions following an investigation that uncovered more than 1,200 impermissible phone calls and text messages during a 29-month span."

"The NCAA enforcement staff labeled the improprieties as "major violations," mainly because of the frequency with which they occurred."

"Combined, the men's and women's basketball programs sent 738 impermissible text messages and made 528 impermissible calls over a span of nearly 2½ years."

 

[easttexastrash]

BG verballed very early. It is possible that the players from DFW Elite wanted to stay together and follow BG wherever she was going. I would have.

Kim was absolutely in an advantageous position but I bet that the rest of those players may have gone elsewhere had BG not chosen Baylor. BG's dad said once that he would only let her play for Pat or Kim and that Tennessee was too far away.

 

[pppggg]

Did Griner get a tour of the ESPN studios? NO
Will Geno drop Baylor from the schedule? NO
Will Giener play next year? Yes
That put a rap on it as far as I am concerned.

 

[sarals24]

Wonder if Pat and Co will drop Baylor from their schedule?

 

[easttexastrash]

Did Griner get a tour of the ESPN studios? NO
Will Geno drop Baylor from the schedule? NO
Will Giener play next year? Yes
That put a rap on it as far as I am concerned.

This!

 

[easttexastrash]

Wonder if Pat and Co will drop Baylor from their schedule?

If they don't want to get their butts whipped they will. Maybe they can drop Baylor and then we can beat them in the tourney again.

 

[UCONNfan1]

If they don't want to get their butts whipped they will. Maybe they can drop Baylor and then we can beat them in the tourney again.

i don't root for Baylor much, but any team that puts a serious spankdown on Tennessee is A-OK by me. At least for one game anyway....

 

[HelloKitty]

Thanks to all who have welcomed me to your forum.

As you can see from Voepel's article, there is validity to some of the issues that were in my previous post. A point she didn't address, that made parents and fans suspicious at the time, was whether or not Makenzie Robertson would have made the elite T-Jack roster, had she not been Mulkey's daughter. Those who didn't believe she was talented enough to be on T-Jack, suspected she was either there to give Mulkey more access to recruits on the team, or to give DFW coaches and recruits more exposure to a very successful coach and program.

Could this be sour grapes from other parents? Absolutely. I never saw Makenzie play in high school, so I don't have an opinion on this issue. I do know that she was a great scorer for her high school team, and helped lead them to a state championship as a Junior. And certainly this issue goes beyond what the NCAA should investigate.

As Voepel said, Mulkey certainly couldn't have planned in advance to have a daughter near Griner's age to gain a recruiting advantage. But it seems she did show a lack of judgement in failing to appear "above reproach" in her relationship with DFW Elite, and in her recruitment of Griner.

As far as punishments, I sincerely hope Griner does not face any eligibility issues or penalties. It appears that she and her family were unaware that some of the contact with Mulkey was against the rules, and they seemed to be open and honest with the NCAA about it. And like others, I can't fathom why the NCAA has taken four years to investigate.

 

[attaboy]

Having been involved in the recruiting process from a couple of different angles, I would say the ambiguity of the process is ridiculous. Most schools have a compliance department to police the athletic department. Some schools will interpret the "rules" very differently. If you call the NCAA and get different folks, there is a very real possibility that you will get a different resolution to the same question. That being said, there are obviously gray areas in the rules. The problem I see here is that there is absolutely no ambiguity in whether a college coach has the opportunity to sit amongst parents of an AAU team. Heavens, at most exposure events you have a colored wristband that gives you right of passage to certain areas. College coach bands are forbidden from being around parent bands. No claim can be made that they did not understand the rule. I had a player whose dad was a college assistant. Her dad would come to the games and sit as far away as possible. Often times in disguise. At exposure events he always was with the coaches. The problem becomes the punishment. Is it the players fault, the school's fault or the coach's fault. Primary fault lies with the coach, second the school, and third the player. This is even further complicated by the DFW coach coming on staff. The sentiment of not punishing players because it tends to be after the offenders are gone. In reality they have the perfect timing in this case. They could vacate a title and/or have a one year ban on post season play. The school could be ordered to drop scholarships to 11 for a couple of years. That would be a little more than the slap on the wrist of losing 2 schollies since few schools actually use 15. Coach penalties could be financial penalties, loss of head coach off campus visits for a year, suspension of the DFW coach if the reported bulk of the phone violations stem from him., etc.

These are difficult questions. Does the punishment fit the crime? Will WCBB be strong enough to impose a sanction that might cost money even if it is the right thing to do? Is anyone gutsy enough to come down hard on a rising star coach? There is no question that this team was deserving of the title. The question is was this team truly deserving of even being allowed to compete as a team.

 

[Kait14]

not sarcasm, this is typical of the NCAA, these are minor violations. Meanwhile there are MBB, and football players getting serious amounts of money, and the NCAA does almost nothing. Then they make a big deal over phone calls, and text messages.

Rules are rules.. and it was a gross number of texts/phone calls.. Not minor violations. These coaches KNOW the rules and they KNOWINGLY broke them