Baylor Recruiting Violations

[Icebear]

Did Griner get a tour of the ESPN studios? NO
Will Geno drop Baylor from the schedule? NO
Will Giener play next year? Yes
That put a rap on it as far as I am concerned.

Clear as mud?

 

[justML]

Thanks to all who have welcomed me to your forum.

As you can see from Voepel's article, there is validity to some of the issues that were in my previous post. A point she didn't address, that made parents and fans suspicious at the time, was whether or not Makenzie Robertson would have made the elite T-Jack roster, had she not been Mulkey's daughter. Those who didn't believe she was talented enough to be on T-Jack, suspected she was either there to give Mulkey more access to recruits on the team, or to give DFW coaches and recruits more exposure to a very successful coach and program.

Could this be sour grapes from other parents? Absolutely.

So true. The wail of "That kid is only on the team because he's/she's the coach's kid" is heard on every Little League, softball, soccer, football field across America each and every day.

 

[pap49cba]

SF Chronicle opinion piece on the Baylor situation

 

[Icebear]

Good piece and a excellent reminder of Baylor's past history and failures.

 

[easttexastrash]

I suspect that unless Baylor is banned from post-season play next year that most people who are not Baylor fans will cry that the sanctions are not enough. I trust that the NCAA will make the proper decision based on their investigation and I will not argue it one bit, whether it is severe or mild. I suspect that most will debate this much more, as the Tennessee fans have done with Maya-gate and will hold onto it for a long time.

 

[Icebear]

I suspect that unless Baylor is banned from post-season play next year that most people who are not Baylor fans will cry that the sanctions are not enough. I trust that the NCAA will make the proper decision based on their investigation and I will not argue it one bit, whether it is severe or mild. I suspect that most will debate this much more, as the Tennessee fans have done with Maya-gate and will hold onto it for a long time.

That is easy path to take because the NCAA is likely to do very little.

 

[easttexastrash]

That is easy path to take because the NCAA is likely to do very little.

If they do very little then I suspect that it is because they see it as a minor incident. I will trust that their investigation was thorough and that they are prepared to hand down an adequate sanction.

But I am not convinced that they will do very little. I am one of the few Baylor fans who feels that the NCAA will take harsher action than most expect. And if that is the case, then so be it.

I don't recall. What was the punishment for the Maya issue? Was that considered a secondary offense or was that deemed an offense at all? I just don't recall.

 

[doggydaddy]

If they do very little then I suspect that it is because they see it as a minor incident. I will trust that their investigation was thorough and that they are prepared to hand down an adequate sanction.

But I am not convinced that they will do very little. I am one of the few Baylor fans who feels that the NCAA will take harsher action than most expect. And if that is the case, then so be it.

I don't recall. What was the punishment for the Maya issue? Was that considered a secondary offense or was that deemed an offense at all? I just don't recall.

It was a secondary offense and only required a written letter of admission.

Oh yeah, you aren't reading my posts....I forgot..

 

[DaddyChoc]

It was a secondary offense and only required a written letter of admission.

Oh yeah, you aren't reading my posts....I forgot..

and Baylor's violations were not bought up by another team, atleast of what we know of.








(quoted DD so "others" can see it )

 

[UConnChapette]

So true. The wail of "That kid is only on the team because he's/she's the coach's kid" is heard on every Little League, softball, soccer, football field across America each and every day.

Yep, especially the "All Star" teams. From my past experience with Little League, the All -Star teams always included the coaches kids, and maybe one or two "token" kid whose parents were just parents. And some of the coaches kids were pathetically non-athletic. It was a joke. My son didn't care, he was a casual player at best. But even he laughed at some of the kids on the All Star team and first made the observation that all the coaches kids made the team.

I am reserving any judgement on Baylor's and Mulkey's violations. While it doesn't sound good from what we know, the NCAA does some wacky things as far as punishments. Could go anywhere from a slap on the wrist (ala the so called "Maya-gate") to what has already been self imposed, or possibly more stringent limitations on recruiting. Depends on whether the NCAA is in their manic or depressive phase.

Honestly, I don't care that much. Just glad it isn't UConn facing this issue.

 

[Icebear]

If they do very little then I suspect that it is because they see it as a minor incident. I will trust that their investigation was thorough and that they are prepared to hand down an adequate sanction.

But I am not convinced that they will do very little. I am one of the few Baylor fans who feels that the NCAA will take harsher action than most expect. And if that is the case, then so be it.

I don't recall. What was the punishment for the Maya issue? Was that considered a secondary offense or was that deemed an offense at all? I just don't recall.

I completely disagree with that assumption, but rather expect little to be done because the NCAA is largely political and does not generally does not want the embarrassment of a program, especially, a NC to be exposed. The lag between these offenses and the issue rising is indicator of this attitude.

 

[Wonkster]

Wow...someone has an ax to GrinDer. Zero proof and a lot of innuendo. I think that wHine was made with sour grapes.

If you require videotapes, sound recordings, and affidavits for everything that we read on this board, we'll have about one post a week here.

Be realistic, huh easttexastrash? I didn't sense any vindictiveness in HelloKitty's post.

 

[FairView]

Looks like the case is closed, but I don't know what "three years of probation" means.
http://content.usatoday.com/communi...iolations-sanctions-text-calls/1#.T4XaklFxIrw

 

[Icebear]

Looks like the case is closed, but I don't know what "three years of probation" means.
http://content.usatoday.com/communi...iolations-sanctions-text-calls/1#.T4XaklFxIrw

As I said a political body that does not want to rock the boat for what it sees as a rising star.

 

[easttexastrash]

As I said a political body that does not want to rock the boat for what it sees as a rising star.

Or, they simply didn't feel that the offenses warranted anything more than what the Baylor program had already set forth.

I'm going with that.

Maybe if Hello Kitty had been on the committee harsher penalties would have been passed down. Is it coincidental that if you google "Hello Kitty" and "Texas Tech" that you find a lot of Texas Tech Hello Kitty merchandise? Maybe or maybe not. The same Texas Tech that has been crying for several years since Baylor surpassed them in basically every sport. Nah...couldn't be a bitter rival.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I give some credit however, for actually listing the names of what I assume are the primary committee members that reviewed the case. Not quite so secret as I would have suspected.

It is also obvious that the men's program was the worse offender, at least by the NCAA's standards.

 

[LIB MR BEARS]

Hello Kitty is a Texas tech fan and has yet to make their first post of ANYTHING REMOTELY POSITIVE related to Baylor or BU or Kim or Griner.

Did Kitty lie? No.

Did Kitty tell the entire story? No

Is Kitty a Little League All-Star parent? Probably

 

[LIB MR BEARS]

From the NCAA report: Paragraphs not related to the women's program are in GRAY. Bolded for emphasis on my part and red is added by me.
"April 11, 2012

NCAA LETTER TO BAYLOR

WACO, Texas - The NCAA Division I Committee on Infractions has accepted Baylor University's self-imposed penalties in a case that focused mainly on impermissible recruiting text messages and telephone calls by the institution's basketball coaches, both parties announced today. Contrary to published speculation generated because of Monday's premature release of information, Baylor will not face additional penalties other than those it self-imposed on its programs.

Although this case took more than three years to complete, it was resolved without a hearing. NCAA Enforcement Procedures allow a summary disposition process, a cooperative effort where all involved parties (the institution, involved individuals and NCAA Enforcement staff) agree to all facts and submit a written report to the Committee on Infractions.

After reviewing the matter through the written report and agreeing with the institution's and involved individuals' self-imposed penalties, the Committee on Infractions accepted the report's findings and Baylor's self-imposed penalties. There is no appeal and the case is completed.

A letter to Baylor President Ken Starr from Melissa Conboy, acting chair of the NCAA Division I Committee on Infractions and Senior Deputy Director of Athletics at the University of Notre Dame, cited "the institution's cooperation and patience in completing this case."

Conboy's letter also stated, "The committee determined that a complete and thorough investigation had taken place and concurred with those findings. The committee also adopted the institution's self-imposed penalties, adding only standard, administrative penalties imposed in all infractions cases."

"We are grateful that this matter has been resolved, and that the NCAA Committee on Infractions has agreed to the facts of this case as reported in the joint summary disposition," said Baylor University President Ken Starr. "While mistakes sometimes happen, it is important that we acknowledge our errors and respond to them in a manner that is open and honest, and that we strictly adhere to NCAA rules."

Specifically, the violations were deemed to be major in nature because the institution's coaches failed to document a number of telephone calls where no contact was made with the prospect. The frequency of this record-keeping error and the volume of text messages sent to prospective student-athletes and family members also contributed.

During the course of the investigation, the institution and the NCAA enforcement staff reviewed nearly 900,000 phone and text message records, and determined that 738 text messages and 528 phone calls were deemed impermissible.
Of the 738 text, 24 involved the women's program. Of the 538 calls, 74 involved the women's program. Remember, these calls are where no contact was made.

"We are pleased that the Committee has agreed with the University's self-imposed sanctions to resolve this matter," said Baylor's Director of Athletics Ian McCaw.

"The University has made significant investments in compliance staffing and infrastructure both prior to and since the investigation began. Moreover, we have outstanding coaches who are committed to operating their programs with integrity."

Baylor's men's and women's basketball programs were the primary focus of the investigation. In women's basketball, there were impermissible telephone and text messages, and additional minor violations that, standing alone, likely would be considered secondary violations. However, collectively the violations were deemed to be major.

While there was no discovery by either party of extra benefits being provided to any current, past or prospective student-athletes the men's basketball portion of this investigation also focused on impermissible telephone and text messages. However, it was complicated by the unethical conduct findings against a former assistant men's basketball coach. These additional findings resulted in a charge of failure to monitor for the head men's basketball coach.

Outside the statements in this release, Baylor officials will not make further comment on this matter.

Statement from Baylor University Head Women's Basketball Coach Kim Mulkey:
"I am glad that the NCAA staff and the Committee on Infractions both agreed that this matter could be concluded without a hearing.

I believe strongly in following NCAA rules and will always try to do so in the future. I do nothing without permission from our Compliance Office (from other sources it was reported that BU fired its compliance officer) and will continue to ask questions to assure that things are done right. Any compliance-related mistakes, even those that are secondary, are disappointing. The majority of mistakes in this matter were errors in sending text messages and failure to accurately document our phone calls. Regardless, we will remain diligent in our efforts to avoid any further mistakes.

The other matters were related to my daughter's participation in summer basketball. While I am and will always be a mother first, I do recognize that there has to be a balance between my role as a mother of a prospect and my role as a head coach. I have always tried to strike that balance and appreciate the opportunity to demonstrate to the NCAA staff such balancing efforts dating back to when Makenzie was in the seventh grade. I am pleased that my efforts to find the appropriate balance between a mother and a coach were recognized."

Statement From Baylor University Junior Brittney Griner:
"I am very excited to be a part of the women's basketball program at Baylor University and for all the accomplishments that the team has achieved since I enrolled. I have made it clear to the NCAA staff and everyone else that I chose to commit to Baylor University early-on in the recruiting process because I believed it would be the best fit for me. I definitely made the right choice and if I had to do it over again, I would make the same decision." Griner gave her verbal to BU 8 months PRIOR to ANY of the calls or text in question.

Statement From Baylor University Head Men's Basketball Coach Scott Drew:
"I came to Baylor in 2003 to do a job: rebuild a program decimated by very serious NCAA rules violations and tragedy. I promised to rebuild the program in a way Baylor could be proud--morally, academically and, finally, athletically, and we continue on that journey today.

The men's basketball program wholeheartedly cooperated with this investigation. The report identifies mistakes in our staff's (proper) recording of recruiting phone calls and sending inadvertent text messages to individuals related to prospects. Our program has taken steps to correct these mistakes, and we are grateful that the NCAA has accepted those actions.

Many of these violations are the result of improperly logging or not logging calls. Approximately 90 percent of the calls later deemed impermissible were either unlogged 2-3 minute voicemail messages left during a permissible calling period or calls to individuals who were parents or relatives of prospective student-athletes who were also non-scholastic (i.e. AAU) coaches to discuss a player other than their son or relative.

As head coach, I take full responsibility for these mistakes and am disappointed that we have failed to uphold both the NCAA's and Baylor's expectations of documenting phone calls and recruiting communications. The procedures have been corrected through a new software tracking system which should prevent this from ever happening again. I take great pride in Baylor's mission, and all of us associated with this program will continue to work hard to represent Baylor and its values the right way."

 

[HuskyNan]

I suspect that most will debate this much more, as the Tennessee fans have done with Maya-gate and will hold onto it for a long time.

I haven't sensed any harsh feelings by UConn fans towards Baylor on this board and I doubt there will be any long term effect here. Certainly there will be no trashing of players and their moms, no scurrilous attacks on the head coach and no searching under every rock for the slightest shred of evidence of wrongdoing (although in some quarters, evidence is optional).

 

[doggydaddy]

I haven't sensed any harsh feelings by UConn fans towards Baylor on this board and I doubt there will be any long term effect here. Certainly there will be no trashing of players and their moms, no scurrilous attacks on the head coach and no searching under every rock for the slightest shred of evidence of wrongdoing (although in some quarters, evidence is optional).

Incredibly, the tin-foil brigade is equating the "light" penalties by the NCAA for Baylor to the light penalties (none) for what they consider a violation with Maya's mom.

They are so obsessed with UConn. They are also saying that Geno pushed Johnson out the door.

 

[easttexastrash]

I haven't sensed any harsh feelings by UConn fans towards Baylor on this board and I doubt there will be any long term effect here. Certainly there will be no trashing of players and their moms, no scurrilous attacks on the head coach and no searching under every rock for the slightest shred of evidence of wrongdoing (although in some quarters, evidence is optional).

I agree. And when I say "most" I do not put UCONN fans into that category. UCONN fans seem to have a higher IQ when it comes to items of this sort, maybe because you've been in the brightest spotlight that the sport has seen.

 

[HuskyNan]

Incredibly, the tin-foil brigade is equating the "light" penalties by the NCAA for Baylor to the light penalties (none) for what they consider a violation with Maya's mom.

I'm ok with the penalties on the women's team but think the men's team skated, especially in comparison to how the UConn men were punished.

 

[easttexastrash]

I'm ok with the penalties on the women's team but think the men's team skated, especially in comparison to how the UConn men were punished.

To me, the difference between the two situations is that in the UCONN situation there were monetary gifts involved. Had it only been calls and texts the outcome would probably been similar. That is my understanding of that situation but I could be wrong as I only know what I read in the press. Also I read that two staff members were terminated for giving false information to the NCAA. Baylor was said to have been completely honest and forthright during the investigation with no attempt to hide anything.

 

[Icebear]

Money?

 

[DaddyChoc]

Money?

ight be talking about the Miles situation... yes money was involved (or atleast paying for things)