Tua

[traitor71]

I don't know, it's really hard to know who to believe. On one hand you have all these NFL players coming out and talking about how much of a sham the concussion protocol is and how easy it is to manipulate. And on the other hand you have traitor71 who doesn't believe the NFL would ever lie. Very, very tough call

So what are the procedures used to manipulate these protocols that all these players are detailing? Are you saying that the guys who are the most up in arms about safety are the ones who are good with faking it? It's one thing for a guy to say "I feel fine", but some of this stuff can't be faked. Light sensitivity, reflexes, visual problems. That gets caught by a specialist, if they want to catch it, that is. I just keep wondering what they would gain from this. A regular season game? Tua? That's worth the trouble this could bring? Now if you're going to tell me this is widespread, that nothing has changed, that it's all fake, and it gets proven? Fry em all, but let's see the info first. That is all I am saying here.

 

[superjohn]

It doesn't require any sort of grand conspiracy, what are you talking about? It takes a wink and a nod and a player who wants to get back on the field.

Incidentally, during the settlement of the concussion litigation, the NFL took the position that payouts to black players should be reduced because they have less brainpower to damage, so it's not like the NFL is above being garbaggio.

I guess we'll see.

The problem is we probably won't see, we don't seem to find about this stuff until years later or people blow the whistle and get taken to the woodshed. The powerful are pretty damn good at burying stuff.

 

[navery12]

So what are the procedures used to manipulate these protocols that all these players are detailing? Are you saying that the guys who are the most up in arms about safety are the ones who are good with faking it? It's one thing for a guy to say "I feel fine", but some of this stuff can't be faked. Light sensitivity, reflexes, visual problems. That gets caught by a specialist, if they want to catch it, that is. I just keep wondering what they would gain from this. A regular season game? Tua? That's worth the trouble this could bring? Now if you're going to tell me this is widespread, that nothing has changed, that it's all fake, and it gets proven? Fry em all, but let's see the info first. That is all I am saying here.

This part in bold is the disconnect between you and the ones you're replying to. What we're saying is the NFL/medical staff/players all don't want to catch it, so they're not looking for it all that hard. It doesn't even need to be some big conspiracy operation, the concussion protocol is just a checklist of symptoms

The NFL gains eyeballs from having Tua play, especially when it's a primetime game. Are you turning on the game to watch Teddy Bridgewater play last night?

 

[HuskyHawk]

The problem is we probably won't see, we don't seem to find about this stuff until years later or people blow the whistle and get taken to the woodshed. The powerful are pretty damn good at burying stuff.

I think they are doing a better job than they used to. It’s not the old days. As for the powerful, as long as you include the union, sure. They’re in on anything that’s happening. The players, ultimately, don’t want a strict protocol it seems. Tua could have ruled himself out. It’s a bit like steroids in baseball in that way. As for broad conspiracies, I’d suggest we also consider that Miami has a crap organization that has been pretty cavalier with a lot of rules lately.

 

[BGesus4]

Is there even a sport if the NFL is super stringent on enforcing what they say they well with concussions?

Pretty sure the league realizes the answer is no.

 

[aburks41]

Now do CTE statistics

The problem with football isn't the big concussions, it's the minor, constant mini head trauma that players go through nearly every play. Their helmets are constantly banging. Even if they aren't getting a concussion on a play like Tua's, that constant helmet bashing has got to be terrible over an entire season. That's hundreds (or thousands) of mini helmet hits each year. No wonder why their brains turn to mush

You can't stop that unless you cancel football. And that's never going to happen. It's the most popular sport in the country and it's only getting more and more popular.

 

[traitor71]

This part in bold is the disconnect between you and the ones you're replying to. What we're saying is the NFL/medical staff/players all don't want to catch it, so they're not looking for it all that hard. It doesn't even need to be some big conspiracy operation, the concussion protocol is just a checklist of symptoms

The NFL gains eyeballs from having Tua play, especially when it's a primetime game. Are you turning on the game to watch Teddy Bridgewater play last night?

There is no disconnect. You are of the belief they are faking all of it. I don't think they are.The NFL head medical doctor said the results of this investigation will be made public upon completion, so let's see what they have. If there are irregularities, then let's look at how many players have entered protocol, take the ones who were cleared to return, and compare the reports to Tua's. That should give us some idea if it is all a scam, on the up and up, or incompetence on the part of some specialist. I'm just simply against all of the rush to judgement.

 

[superjohn]

I think they are doing a better job than they used to. It’s not the old days. As for the powerful, as long as you include the union, sure. They’re in on anything that’s happening. The players, ultimately, don’t want a strict protocol it seems. Tua could have ruled himself out. It’s a bit like steroids in baseball in that way. As for broad conspiracies, I’d suggest we also consider that Miami has a crap organization that has been pretty cavalier with a lot of rules lately.

It can't be the responsibility of the player to rule themselves out, that's the entire point of having regulations for this sort of stuff. It's almost like the drunk driver deciding he's okay to drive.

I don't trust the NFL to ever do the right thing, the only time they clean things up a bit is when there's massive litigation and public embarrassment, in other words it's hurting their bottom line.

 

[husky429]

There is no disconnect. You are of the belief they are faking all of it. I don't think they are.The NFL head medical doctor said the results of this investigation will be made public upon completion, so let's see what they have. If there are irregularities, then let's look at how many players have entered protocol, take the ones who were cleared to return, and compare the reports to Tua's. That should give us some idea if it is all a scam, on the up and up, or incompetence on the part of some specialist. I'm just simply against all of the rush to judgement.

You're really missing the point and it has been explained to you a dozen times. Play any football back in the day?

 

[BGesus4]

The problem with football isn't the big concussions, it's the minor, constant mini head trauma that players go through nearly every play. Their helmets are constantly banging. Even if they aren't getting a concussion on a play like Tua's, that constant helmet bashing has got to be terrible over an entire season. That's hundreds (or thousands) of mini helmet hits each year. No wonder why their brains turn to mush

You can't stop that unless you cancel football. And that's never going to happen. It's the most popular sport in the country and it's only getting more and more popular.

Yeah, I remember reading that lineman actually have the most problems because they have so many mini head traumas every game

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

The problem is we probably won't see, we don't seem to find about this stuff until years later or people blow the whistle and get taken to the woodshed. The powerful are pretty damn good at burying stuff.

Yeah when I said "we'll see" it was more "we'll see if the NFL does anything besides the standard 'wait for this to blow over'" rigmarole.

 

[traitor71]

You're really missing the point and it has been explained to you a dozen times. Play any football back in the day?

Oh I see the point. There are a lot of people who have made up their minds and that is that. We live in a rush to judgement culture, it's just how it is.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Oh I see the point. There are a lot of people who have made up their minds and that is that. We live in a rush to judgement culture, it's just how it is.

That's also not what's happening. The NFL has a pretty horrendous track record when it comes to honesty and forthrightness. People are right to be skeptical that that will change here. You're the only one proceeding from the default assumption that the NFL is suddenly going to do a 180 and do the right thing. You're entitled to give this multi-billion dollar enterprise the benefit of the doubt when they don't deserve it, but not everyone is going to do that.

 

[UCSouth]

I don't know, it's really hard to know who to believe. On one hand you have all these NFL players coming out and talking about how much of a sham the concussion protocol is and how easy it is to manipulate. And on the other hand you have traitor71 who doesn't believe the NFL would ever lie. Very, very tough call

I do believe that @traitor71 has climbed the hill and is standing at the doorstep

 

[traitor71]

That's also not what's happening. The NFL has a pretty horrendous track record when it comes to honesty and forthrightness. People are right to be skeptical that that will change here. You're the only one proceeding from the default assumption that the NFL is suddenly going to do a 180 and do the right thing. You're entitled to give this multi-billion dollar enterprise the benefit of the doubt when they don't deserve it, but not everyone is going to do that.

I'm not asking anyone to do that, everyone is free to have their own beliefs. I just don't see how they profit from this. And if they really are hiding something, then a lot of people are going to have to answer for it, and their business is going to take a hit. I just think now that the light is shining on this, it makes more financial sense to play by the rules, not go against them. They will not get off easily the next time there is litigation. They have to be aware of that.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I'm not asking anyone to do that, everyone is free to have their own beliefs. I just don't see how they profit from this. And if they really are hiding something, then a lot of people are going to have to answer for it, and their business is going to take a hit. I just think now that the light is shining on this, it makes more financial sense to play by the rules, not go against them. They will not get off easily the next time there is litigation. They have to be aware of that.

They don’t. Nobody tuned in last night for Tua, he’s not a star. Few players are tv attractions. They tuned in because a 3-0 team was facing last years AFC champions. But did the Dolphins, finally winning after decades as a poor to mediocre team, feel pressure? Probably. Does he play if Miami is 1-2? Maybe not.

 

[husky429]

I'm not asking anyone to do that, everyone is free to have their own beliefs. I just don't see how they profit from this.

You don't see how the NFL profits from having a 3-0 starting QB on the field vs last years AFC champs?

You can agree or disagree with what happened. Seems purposefully obtuse to act like there's no financial incentive for him to play.

 

[traitor71]

They don’t. Nobody tuned in last night for Tua, he’s not a star. Few players are tv attractions. They tuned in because a 3-0 team was facing last years AFC champions. But did the Dolphins, finally winning after decades as a poor to mediocre team, feel pressure? Probably. Does he play if Miami is 1-2? Maybe not.

See, we agree. Mostly, anyway. It has been said in this thread that people tune in to see Tua. I don't believe that, I completely agree that when it comes to football, there are very few players who move the needle in terms of actually tuning in. People watch these games for a ton of reasons, even if they aren't football fans and just "event" fans. I don't really buy into Miami feeling pressure though. They know they benefit more with Tua on the field for the long haul, than for some short term gratification. He is a guy who has gotten hurt every year. If anything, I imagine they would be trying to protect him as they finally seem to have a coach who can get the most out of him.

 

[Stinger92860]

Now do CTE statistics

And add in repeated concussions by sport

 

[Stinger92860]

They need to scrap these Thursday games or give each team a bye week beforehand, especially now there are 17 games. But the NFL doesn't actually care about player safety, they only care about the all-ighty ollar

The players also like the money

 

[HCCForever]

This upset me as well. I was wondering what Tua was doing with his fingers. After a while I believe a OL stopped him. I heard that his reaction was a fencing response which is done when the brain shuts down. I am just listening to the Steve Gorman Show so I could be totally wrong. Here is a link describing that:

fence position - Google Search

 

[UCTitleTown]

It's a sin that the richest and most dangerous professional sport in America doesn't have guaranteed player contracts. Look at running backs. Guys are 27 and considered old and expendable. Fresh legs out of college are cheap and can replace them. Mind boggling that the NFLPA hasn't fought for and won guaranteed contracts. The owners got them to play extra games too. The players might as well be live stock the way they are treated. It's laughable to hear the NFL promoting all they're doing for player safety.

 

[HuskyHawk]

You don't see how the NFL profits from having a 3-0 starting QB on the field vs last years AFC champs?

You can agree or disagree with what happened. Seems purposefully obtuse to act like there's no financial incentive for him to play.

If Tedy started it would have no impact on ratings. Honestly, until the win over the Bills many people expected Tua to be drafted over soon and replaced. That has no impact on this except to suggest, as I said, the Dolphins, not the NFL are the interested party here.

 

[traitor71]

It's a sin that the richest and most dangerous professional sport in America doesn't have guaranteed player contracts. Look at running backs. Guys are 27 and considered old and expendable. Fresh legs out of college are cheap and can replace them. Mind boggling that the NFLPA hasn't fought for and won guaranteed contracts. The owners got them to play extra games too. The players might as well be live stock the way they are treated. It's laughable to hear the NFL promoting all they're doing for player safety.

They are starting to get there. I heard Drew Rosenhaus on the radio a few weeks back talking about how they have been getting contracts that are as high as 80 percent guaranteed. I don’t believe that every contract should be 100 percent guaranteed though. You have to have some ability to be able to move on when someone simply can't live up to the money in my opinion. As for safety, it's silly to ignore the advances in equipment, training, the rule changes, etc. The issue is that this is a game with an insane amount of contact, and it always will be. The one thing I am really against are the Thursday games, but it seems like all parties involved have accepted them, so that's on them.

 

[navery12]