Tua

[Peacefrog]

Is my impression correct that as you get multiple concussions, especially in quick succession, that it takes progressively less trauma in the future to cause a subsequent concussion? Is that what happened with Casey Cochrane?

 

[superjohn]

Football will probably be close to dead in a generation

I wish that were the case but I just don't see it. It maybe will become even more regionalized than it already is but it's an obsession/religion for parts of the country and that isn't changing. And as for those people who won't let their kids play, they'll still be watching others kids play.

 

[superjohn]

I personally think the dolphins are being wrongfully vilified in this situation. If the NFL neurologist say he’s fine, & he says he is fine, idk what else the team is expected to do. This is more of an NFL issue IMO than anything.

It is interesting though that if a fighter had this happen it’s like an auto 90 day suspension, meanwhile football just has them clear a “protocol”

They're supposed to keep their player out. He clearly wasn't fine.

 

[Greedo]

I wish that were the case but I just don't see it. It maybe will become even more regionalized than it already is but it's an obsession/religion for parts of the country and that isn't changing. And as for those people who won't let their kids play, they'll still be watching others kids play.

This is very true. The high school I teach at has a bad football team. Like, loses games worse than UConn bad. They also routinely win state championships in other sports. Yet, football is king. The team is glorified with over the top extravagant pep rallies. Large numbers of people still go to the games. As long as football teams continue to be treated this way, kids will want to play, and parents will want to relive their former glory through their kids.

 

[Chuck]

I wish that were the case but I just don't see it. It maybe will become even more regionalized than it already is but it's an obsession/religion for parts of the country and that isn't changing. And as for those people who won't let their kids play, they'll still be watching others kids play.

Agreed. It's different than boxing. Watching it has been engrained in the country. I'm not even a big fan, but I watch and do social stuff around some games. The game is certainly struggling in my town which was a pretty strong football power for a small town. The team has significantly less players, and less of the top athletes. They win because they play in a terrible division, but the whole town shows up for games. Soccer, lacrosse, and hockey teams regularly win state/county championships and nobody shows up until the final games.

EDIT: Just saw @Greedo post. The funny thing is, the football players are not worshipped by the kids in the school at all. They're just regular kids, no more or less "popular." It's the adults that are still into the pomp. Maybe the next generation will be the change.

I'm shocked that some of my friends let their kids play the game. Some even encouraged it. The answer I get when I ask if they are worried is "they'll only play in high school" or "the game is much safer now." Then a kid in Linden died from a hit.

I coached my daughter's soccer team for years. I had to get concussion training every year. But they're not always easy to see. But if I saw a kid crumple like Tua did after seeing her head hit the ground, she'd be done. Yes, it's youth soccer vs. a billion dollar business played by warrior adults. So what, sometimes obvious is obvious.

 

[StllH8L8ner]

This is very true. The high school I teach at has a bad football team. Like, loses games worse than UConn bad. They also routinely win state championships in other sports. Yet, football is king. The team is glorified with over the top extravagant pep rallies. Large numbers of people still go to the games. As long as football teams continue to be treated this way, kids will want to play, and parents will want to relive their former glory through their kids.

My kid is 9 and plays flag football so I figured he’d be somewhat safe. Then I read an article in the WSJ that there are more injuries in flag than tackle football which I found a little surprising but I guess it makes sense considering they don’t wear any pads in flag.

Trying to get him into golf where he just has to keep an eye out for my shanks.

 

[superjohn]

I don't know much about head trauma. I do know when a fighter is fencing like that with his hands after head trauma, there's a serious risk of someone literally dying or ending up a vegetable.

The more I see of these injuries, the more I wonder if sports like football and boxing are even worth it.

MMA as well, it's absurd they always tried to claim they won't/don't have the CTE issues boxing and football do.

 

[buckley503]

CONCUSSIONS IN EACH SPORT

Sport	% of concussion-related injuries
Hockey	12%
Snowboarding	10%
Water tubing	9%
Football	8%
Lacrosse	8%
Horseback riding	7%
Wrestling	7%
Rugby	7%
Soccer	6%
Cheerleading	6%
Baseball	5%
Volleyball	4%
Basketball	3%

These are insurance industry #s( with total # for the major sports similar) from 2010-20 so as quickly as the reaction is to end a sport it seems that the youth of today will have pretty much nothing to do.

And I do have 2 high school football players who love it. I love it. Hell I'm more concerned about them getting there licenses. And just as in every aspect of life you accept risks.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

CONCUSSIONS IN EACH SPORT

Sport	% of concussion-related injuries
Hockey	12%
Snowboarding	10%
Water tubing	9%
Football	8%
Lacrosse	8%
Horseback riding	7%
Wrestling	7%
Rugby	7%
Soccer	6%
Cheerleading	6%
Baseball	5%
Volleyball	4%
Basketball	3%

These are insurance industry #s( with total # for the major sports similar) from 2010-20 so as quickly as the reaction is to end a sport it seems that the youth of today will have pretty much nothing to do.

And I do have 2 high school football players who love it. I love it. Hell I'm more concerned about them getting there licenses. And just as in every aspect of life you accept risks.

Now do CTE statistics

 

[Chuck]

CONCUSSIONS IN EACH SPORT

Sport	% of concussion-related injuries
Hockey	12%
Snowboarding	10%
Water tubing	9%
Football	8%
Lacrosse	8%
Horseback riding	7%
Wrestling	7%
Rugby	7%
Soccer	6%
Cheerleading	6%
Baseball	5%
Volleyball	4%
Basketball	3%

These are insurance industry #s( with total # for the major sports similar) from 2010-20 so as quickly as the reaction is to end a sport it seems that the youth of today will have pretty much nothing to do.

And I do have 2 high school football players who love it. I love it. Hell I'm more concerned about them getting there licenses. And just as in every aspect of life you accept risks.

My post above wasn't meant to be judgey. I know perfectly rational parents and kids that love the sport.

What did you think of the Tua situation then? I think it's crazy that they let him play last week just based on the circumstances (head driven into ground, gets up shaking his head to clear cobwebs, crumples). And I don't think he should have played this week, but I'd hope the neurologists and baseline tests would have been consulted. As you point out above, there are plenty of soccer concussions. I'd be pissed if my kid was allowed to play on the Tua circumstances.

Also, concussions are the main topic, but I'd also add that football does tend to have (or seem to have) bigger injuries. I found this study (although I admit that I didn't research the validity). Which High School Sport is Most Dangerous? Let’s Ask the Data — CUSSYS. Basically, football has by far the highest "catastrophic injuries" by number. On a per 100k participant basis, football is almost even (but less) than cheerleading and hockey (but all are MUCH higher than others). And with deaths, football is by itself with by far the highest number. These are still small numbers compared to all participation (2.6 catastrophic injuries per 100k participants).

 

[borninansonia]

I suspect that bicycle racing may have the highest injury numbers, including deaths.

 

[storrsroars]

CONCUSSIONS IN EACH SPORT

Sport	% of concussion-related injuries
Hockey	12%
Snowboarding	10%
Water tubing	9%
Football	8%
Lacrosse	8%
Horseback riding	7%
Wrestling	7%
Rugby	7%
Soccer	6%
Cheerleading	6%
Baseball	5%
Volleyball	4%
Basketball	3%

These are insurance industry #s( with total # for the major sports similar) from 2010-20 so as quickly as the reaction is to end a sport it seems that the youth of today will have pretty much nothing to do.

And I do have 2 high school football players who love it. I love it. Hell I'm more concerned about them getting there licenses. And just as in every aspect of life you accept risks.

Did a double take on tubing. But as it turns out, towed water tubing is indeed the cause of many head injuries to children. Regular old river tubing is fine.

Who knew there's less risk of getting drilled in the noggin by a fastball than having your cheerleading teammates miss catching you?

 

[Get a Job]

CONCUSSIONS IN EACH SPORT

Sport	% of concussion-related injuries
Hockey	12%
Snowboarding	10%
Water tubing	9%
Football	8%
Lacrosse	8%
Horseback riding	7%
Wrestling	7%
Rugby	7%
Soccer	6%
Cheerleading	6%
Baseball	5%
Volleyball	4%
Basketball	3%

These are insurance industry #s( with total # for the major sports similar) from 2010-20 so as quickly as the reaction is to end a sport it seems that the youth of today will have pretty much nothing to do.

And I do have 2 high school football players who love it. I love it. Hell I'm more concerned about them getting there licenses. And just as in every aspect of life you accept risks.

What does "% of concussion-related injuries" mean? If it means percentage of injuries from that activity that include a concussion, then it's a pretty meaningless number. A more relevant statistic would be "concussions per 100 hours of participation" or something like that.

 

[buckley503]

My post above wasn't meant to be judgey. I know perfectly rational parents and kids that love the sport.

What did you think of the Tua situation then? I think it's crazy that they let him play last week just based on the circumstances (head driven into ground, gets up shaking his head to clear cobwebs, crumples). And I don't think he should have played this week, but I'd hope the neurologists and baseline tests would have been consulted. As you point out above, there are plenty of soccer concussions. I'd be pissed if my kid was allowed to play on the Tua circumstances.

Also, concussions are the main topic, but I'd also add that football does tend to have (or seem to have) bigger injuries. I found this study (although I admit that I didn't research the validity). Which High School Sport is Most Dangerous? Let’s Ask the Data — CUSSYS. Basically, football has by far the highest "catastrophic injuries" by number. On a per 100k participant basis, football is almost even (but less) than cheerleading and hockey (but all are MUCH higher than others). And with deaths, football is by itself with by far the highest number. These are still small numbers compared to all participation (2.6 catastrophic injuries per 100k participants).

I didn't mean to come across as a challenge. I agree with you and Tua has a tough decision ahead about playing again. Just wanted to demonstrate that there are risk/rewards in everything.

 

[buckley503]

Now do CTE statistics

Since the only way to determine CTE, currently, is to study brain tissue after you are dead*, I don't think there are a lot of meaningful statistics pertaining to youth sports.

*There is an experimental PET scan being studied.

 

[UCFan1513]

I don't know much about head trauma. I do know when a fighter is fencing like that with his hands after head trauma, there's a serious risk of someone literally dying or ending up a vegetable.

The more I see of these injuries, the more I wonder if sports like football and boxing are even worth it.

They're not

 

[husky429]

MMA as well, it's absurd they always tried to claim they won't/don't have the CTE issues boxing and football do.

Amateur MMA is a little less risky because it's very grappling-heavy. But that's just the meta of the sport right now...

I'm very confident I will have long-term effects from my mma/muay thai/boxing days and I was safer than most.

Boxers especially, I think it's all the hard sparring that ends up with the CTE issues. Boxers go HARD in practice compared to other striking sports. I went through entire 4 month Muay Thai camps to fight professionally and never got my bell rung. From 12-16 when I was boxing, I was seeing stars every day of practice.

 

[husky429]

They're not

Older I get, the more I think that. My kids sure as hell won't be playing football.

 

[husky429]

CONCUSSIONS IN EACH SPORT

Sport	% of concussion-related injuries
Hockey	12%
Snowboarding	10%
Water tubing	9%
Football	8%
Lacrosse	8%
Horseback riding	7%
Wrestling	7%
Rugby	7%
Soccer	6%
Cheerleading	6%
Baseball	5%
Volleyball	4%
Basketball	3%

These are insurance industry #s( with total # for the major sports similar) from 2010-20 so as quickly as the reaction is to end a sport it seems that the youth of today will have pretty much nothing to do.

And I do have 2 high school football players who love it. I love it. Hell I'm more concerned about them getting there licenses. And just as in every aspect of life you accept risks.

These kind of stats are close to meaningless.

What does "% of concussion-related injuries" mean? If it means percentage of injuries from that activity that include a concussion, then it's a pretty meaningless number. A more relevant statistic would be "concussions per 100 hours of participation" or something like that.

I think this is probably the data you're looking for: What Sport Has The Most Concussions? | Concussion Rate

...Which shows that football has (shocker!) way higher concussion rates than other sports. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that football and hockey are worse than other sports. Over double the rates of soccer, and over triple wrestling/basketball... 10x the rates of baseball.

 

[Greedo]

My kid is 9 and plays flag football so I figured he’d be somewhat safe. Then I read an article in the WSJ that there are more injuries in flag than tackle football which I found a little surprising but I guess it makes sense considering they don’t wear any pads in flag.

Trying to get him into golf where he just has to keep an eye out for my shanks.

I wouldn't be concerned with flag football. Injuries are going to happen in every sport. Virtually everyone who played sports growing up faced injuries at some point. The concern with contact football is head collisions, not specifically concussions. Sure, what happened to Tua is awful. That's certainly a concern with football. But the real concern is the repeated knocks to the head over and over again, and less the major blows that cause concussions. Those repeated knocks are what result in CTE. Whenever I watch a football game the linemen knock heads on basically every play. That's the concern. I wouldn't expect that to be happening in flag football.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Prayers for Tua. That's all that matters. I hope he recovers fully and quickly, and has no long term impacts on his health. As for casting blame, I don't know what happened last week. The PhD guy on twitter doesn't know, he and almost everyone are making assumptions. If I had to assume, I too would say he probably shouldn't have played, especially on a short week. There will be an investigation and we'll know more then.

 

[HuskyHawk]

These kind of stats are close to meaningless.



I think this is probably the data you're looking for: What Sport Has The Most Concussions? | Concussion Rate

...Which shows that football has (shocker!) way higher concussion rates than other sports. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that football and hockey are worse than other sports. Over double the rates of soccer, and over triple wrestling/basketball... 10x the rates of baseball.

Girls soccer is one many don't know about. Daughter's friend across the street had 3. Her parents are our friends and we thought they were crazy to let her keep playing.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

CONCUSSIONS IN EACH SPORT

Sport	% of concussion-related injuries
Hockey	12%
Snowboarding	10%
Water tubing	9%
Football	8%
Lacrosse	8%
Horseback riding	7%
Wrestling	7%
Rugby	7%
Soccer	6%
Cheerleading	6%
Baseball	5%
Volleyball	4%
Basketball	3%

These are insurance industry #s( with total # for the major sports similar) from 2010-20 so as quickly as the reaction is to end a sport it seems that the youth of today will have pretty much nothing to do.

And I do have 2 high school football players who love it. I love it. Hell I'm more concerned about them getting there licenses. And just as in every aspect of life you accept risks.

It is beyond idiotic to compare these other sports to football in terms of risk of long-term brain damage. Basketball and soccer do not require violent, high speed collisions every 3 to 5 seconds of playing time.

 

[husky429]

Girls soccer is one many don't know about. Daughter's friend across the street had 3. Her parents are our friends and we thought they were crazy to let her keep playing.

Cheerleading too

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Prayers for Tua. That's all that matters. I hope he recovers fully and quickly, and has no long term impacts on his health. As for casting blame, I don't know what happened last week. The PhD guy on twitter doesn't know, he and almost everyone are making assumptions. If I had to assume, I too would say he probably shouldn't have played, especially on a short week. There will be an investigation and we'll know more then.

He 100% shouldn’t have played