Tua | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Tua

This is very true. The high school I teach at has a bad football team. Like, loses games worse than UConn bad. They also routinely win state championships in other sports. Yet, football is king. The team is glorified with over the top extravagant pep rallies. Large numbers of people still go to the games. As long as football teams continue to be treated this way, kids will want to play, and parents will want to relive their former glory through their kids.
My kid is 9 and plays flag football so I figured he’d be somewhat safe. Then I read an article in the WSJ that there are more injuries in flag than tackle football which I found a little surprising but I guess it makes sense considering they don’t wear any pads in flag.

Trying to get him into golf where he just has to keep an eye out for my shanks.
 
I don't know much about head trauma. I do know when a fighter is fencing like that with his hands after head trauma, there's a serious risk of someone literally dying or ending up a vegetable.

The more I see of these injuries, the more I wonder if sports like football and boxing are even worth it.
MMA as well, it's absurd they always tried to claim they won't/don't have the CTE issues boxing and football do.
 
CONCUSSIONS IN EACH SPORT
Sport% of concussion-related injuries
Hockey12%
Snowboarding10%
Water tubing9%
Football8%
Lacrosse8%
Horseback riding7%
Wrestling7%
Rugby7%
Soccer6%
Cheerleading6%
Baseball5%
Volleyball4%
Basketball3%

These are insurance industry #s( with total # for the major sports similar) from 2010-20 so as quickly as the reaction is to end a sport it seems that the youth of today will have pretty much nothing to do.

And I do have 2 high school football players who love it. I love it. Hell I'm more concerned about them getting there licenses. And just as in every aspect of life you accept risks.
 
CONCUSSIONS IN EACH SPORT
Sport% of concussion-related injuries
Hockey12%
Snowboarding10%
Water tubing9%
Football8%
Lacrosse8%
Horseback riding7%
Wrestling7%
Rugby7%
Soccer6%
Cheerleading6%
Baseball5%
Volleyball4%
Basketball3%

These are insurance industry #s( with total # for the major sports similar) from 2010-20 so as quickly as the reaction is to end a sport it seems that the youth of today will have pretty much nothing to do.

And I do have 2 high school football players who love it. I love it. Hell I'm more concerned about them getting there licenses. And just as in every aspect of life you accept risks.
Now do CTE statistics
 
CONCUSSIONS IN EACH SPORT
Sport% of concussion-related injuries
Hockey12%
Snowboarding10%
Water tubing9%
Football8%
Lacrosse8%
Horseback riding7%
Wrestling7%
Rugby7%
Soccer6%
Cheerleading6%
Baseball5%
Volleyball4%
Basketball3%

These are insurance industry #s( with total # for the major sports similar) from 2010-20 so as quickly as the reaction is to end a sport it seems that the youth of today will have pretty much nothing to do.

And I do have 2 high school football players who love it. I love it. Hell I'm more concerned about them getting there licenses. And just as in every aspect of life you accept risks.
My post above wasn't meant to be judgey. I know perfectly rational parents and kids that love the sport.

What did you think of the Tua situation then? I think it's crazy that they let him play last week just based on the circumstances (head driven into ground, gets up shaking his head to clear cobwebs, crumples). And I don't think he should have played this week, but I'd hope the neurologists and baseline tests would have been consulted. As you point out above, there are plenty of soccer concussions. I'd be pissed if my kid was allowed to play on the Tua circumstances.

Also, concussions are the main topic, but I'd also add that football does tend to have (or seem to have) bigger injuries. I found this study (although I admit that I didn't research the validity). Which High School Sport is Most Dangerous? Let’s Ask the Data — CUSSYS. Basically, football has by far the highest "catastrophic injuries" by number. On a per 100k participant basis, football is almost even (but less) than cheerleading and hockey (but all are MUCH higher than others). And with deaths, football is by itself with by far the highest number. These are still small numbers compared to all participation (2.6 catastrophic injuries per 100k participants).
 
I suspect that bicycle racing may have the highest injury numbers, including deaths.
 
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CONCUSSIONS IN EACH SPORT
Sport% of concussion-related injuries
Hockey12%
Snowboarding10%
Water tubing9%
Football8%
Lacrosse8%
Horseback riding7%
Wrestling7%
Rugby7%
Soccer6%
Cheerleading6%
Baseball5%
Volleyball4%
Basketball3%

These are insurance industry #s( with total # for the major sports similar) from 2010-20 so as quickly as the reaction is to end a sport it seems that the youth of today will have pretty much nothing to do.

And I do have 2 high school football players who love it. I love it. Hell I'm more concerned about them getting there licenses. And just as in every aspect of life you accept risks.
Did a double take on tubing. But as it turns out, towed water tubing is indeed the cause of many head injuries to children. Regular old river tubing is fine.

Who knew there's less risk of getting drilled in the noggin by a fastball than having your cheerleading teammates miss catching you?
 
CONCUSSIONS IN EACH SPORT
Sport% of concussion-related injuries
Hockey12%
Snowboarding10%
Water tubing9%
Football8%
Lacrosse8%
Horseback riding7%
Wrestling7%
Rugby7%
Soccer6%
Cheerleading6%
Baseball5%
Volleyball4%
Basketball3%

These are insurance industry #s( with total # for the major sports similar) from 2010-20 so as quickly as the reaction is to end a sport it seems that the youth of today will have pretty much nothing to do.

And I do have 2 high school football players who love it. I love it. Hell I'm more concerned about them getting there licenses. And just as in every aspect of life you accept risks.
What does "% of concussion-related injuries" mean? If it means percentage of injuries from that activity that include a concussion, then it's a pretty meaningless number. A more relevant statistic would be "concussions per 100 hours of participation" or something like that.
 
My post above wasn't meant to be judgey. I know perfectly rational parents and kids that love the sport.

What did you think of the Tua situation then? I think it's crazy that they let him play last week just based on the circumstances (head driven into ground, gets up shaking his head to clear cobwebs, crumples). And I don't think he should have played this week, but I'd hope the neurologists and baseline tests would have been consulted. As you point out above, there are plenty of soccer concussions. I'd be pissed if my kid was allowed to play on the Tua circumstances.

Also, concussions are the main topic, but I'd also add that football does tend to have (or seem to have) bigger injuries. I found this study (although I admit that I didn't research the validity). Which High School Sport is Most Dangerous? Let’s Ask the Data — CUSSYS. Basically, football has by far the highest "catastrophic injuries" by number. On a per 100k participant basis, football is almost even (but less) than cheerleading and hockey (but all are MUCH higher than others). And with deaths, football is by itself with by far the highest number. These are still small numbers compared to all participation (2.6 catastrophic injuries per 100k participants).
I didn't mean to come across as a challenge. I agree with you and Tua has a tough decision ahead about playing again. Just wanted to demonstrate that there are risk/rewards in everything.
 
Now do CTE statistics
Since the only way to determine CTE, currently, is to study brain tissue after you are dead*, I don't think there are a lot of meaningful statistics pertaining to youth sports.

*There is an experimental PET scan being studied.
 
I don't know much about head trauma. I do know when a fighter is fencing like that with his hands after head trauma, there's a serious risk of someone literally dying or ending up a vegetable.

The more I see of these injuries, the more I wonder if sports like football and boxing are even worth it.
They're not
 
MMA as well, it's absurd they always tried to claim they won't/don't have the CTE issues boxing and football do.

Amateur MMA is a little less risky because it's very grappling-heavy. But that's just the meta of the sport right now...

I'm very confident I will have long-term effects from my mma/muay thai/boxing days and I was safer than most.

Boxers especially, I think it's all the hard sparring that ends up with the CTE issues. Boxers go HARD in practice compared to other striking sports. I went through entire 4 month Muay Thai camps to fight professionally and never got my bell rung. From 12-16 when I was boxing, I was seeing stars every day of practice.
 
.-.
CONCUSSIONS IN EACH SPORT
Sport% of concussion-related injuries
Hockey12%
Snowboarding10%
Water tubing9%
Football8%
Lacrosse8%
Horseback riding7%
Wrestling7%
Rugby7%
Soccer6%
Cheerleading6%
Baseball5%
Volleyball4%
Basketball3%

These are insurance industry #s( with total # for the major sports similar) from 2010-20 so as quickly as the reaction is to end a sport it seems that the youth of today will have pretty much nothing to do.

And I do have 2 high school football players who love it. I love it. Hell I'm more concerned about them getting there licenses. And just as in every aspect of life you accept risks.

These kind of stats are close to meaningless.

What does "% of concussion-related injuries" mean? If it means percentage of injuries from that activity that include a concussion, then it's a pretty meaningless number. A more relevant statistic would be "concussions per 100 hours of participation" or something like that.

I think this is probably the data you're looking for: What Sport Has The Most Concussions? | Concussion Rate

...Which shows that football has (shocker!) way higher concussion rates than other sports. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that football and hockey are worse than other sports. Over double the rates of soccer, and over triple wrestling/basketball... 10x the rates of baseball.
 
My kid is 9 and plays flag football so I figured he’d be somewhat safe. Then I read an article in the WSJ that there are more injuries in flag than tackle football which I found a little surprising but I guess it makes sense considering they don’t wear any pads in flag.

Trying to get him into golf where he just has to keep an eye out for my shanks.
I wouldn't be concerned with flag football. Injuries are going to happen in every sport. Virtually everyone who played sports growing up faced injuries at some point. The concern with contact football is head collisions, not specifically concussions. Sure, what happened to Tua is awful. That's certainly a concern with football. But the real concern is the repeated knocks to the head over and over again, and less the major blows that cause concussions. Those repeated knocks are what result in CTE. Whenever I watch a football game the linemen knock heads on basically every play. That's the concern. I wouldn't expect that to be happening in flag football.
 
Prayers for Tua. That's all that matters. I hope he recovers fully and quickly, and has no long term impacts on his health. As for casting blame, I don't know what happened last week. The PhD guy on twitter doesn't know, he and almost everyone are making assumptions. If I had to assume, I too would say he probably shouldn't have played, especially on a short week. There will be an investigation and we'll know more then.
 
These kind of stats are close to meaningless.



I think this is probably the data you're looking for: What Sport Has The Most Concussions? | Concussion Rate

...Which shows that football has (shocker!) way higher concussion rates than other sports. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that football and hockey are worse than other sports. Over double the rates of soccer, and over triple wrestling/basketball... 10x the rates of baseball.
Girls soccer is one many don't know about. Daughter's friend across the street had 3. Her parents are our friends and we thought they were crazy to let her keep playing.
 
CONCUSSIONS IN EACH SPORT
Sport% of concussion-related injuries
Hockey12%
Snowboarding10%
Water tubing9%
Football8%
Lacrosse8%
Horseback riding7%
Wrestling7%
Rugby7%
Soccer6%
Cheerleading6%
Baseball5%
Volleyball4%
Basketball3%

These are insurance industry #s( with total # for the major sports similar) from 2010-20 so as quickly as the reaction is to end a sport it seems that the youth of today will have pretty much nothing to do.

And I do have 2 high school football players who love it. I love it. Hell I'm more concerned about them getting there licenses. And just as in every aspect of life you accept risks.

It is beyond idiotic to compare these other sports to football in terms of risk of long-term brain damage. Basketball and soccer do not require violent, high speed collisions every 3 to 5 seconds of playing time.
 
.-.
Girls soccer is one many don't know about. Daughter's friend across the street had 3. Her parents are our friends and we thought they were crazy to let her keep playing.

Cheerleading too
 
Prayers for Tua. That's all that matters. I hope he recovers fully and quickly, and has no long term impacts on his health. As for casting blame, I don't know what happened last week. The PhD guy on twitter doesn't know, he and almost everyone are making assumptions. If I had to assume, I too would say he probably shouldn't have played, especially on a short week. There will be an investigation and we'll know more then.
He 100% shouldn’t have played
 
I’m not a doctor and I don’t work for the Dolphins so I can’t say he had a concussion 5 days ago when his legs buckled after he got up after a hit where it looked pretty clearly like his head bounced off the ground and he had to be helped off by his teammates . . . but that _____ tonight was gross. Prayers for the kid. Just brutal to watch.
I didn't watch. Now I don't want to. But you are ahead of the curve. Talking heads are all over this today.
 
CONCUSSIONS IN EACH SPORT
Sport% of concussion-related injuries
Hockey12%
Snowboarding10%
Water tubing9%
Football8%
Lacrosse8%
Horseback riding7%
Wrestling7%
Rugby7%
Soccer6%
Cheerleading6%
Baseball5%
Volleyball4%
Basketball3%

These are insurance industry #s( with total # for the major sports similar) from 2010-20 so as quickly as the reaction is to end a sport it seems that the youth of today will have pretty much nothing to do.

And I do have 2 high school football players who love it. I love it. Hell I'm more concerned about them getting there licenses. And just as in every aspect of life you accept risks.
I score 3/13....4/14 if there's an "other" category, what about you?...o wait that's not what we're doing here?...I'll go lie down
 
He 100% shouldn’t have played
Even if he wasn't concussed from Sunday (he was), he should have been benched because of his "back injury". I'm a dolphins fan and I'm about done watching the NFL now. Tua could have legit died out there.
 
.-.
I didn't watch. Now I don't want to. But you are ahead of the curve. Talking heads are all over this today.
Played the position and on a Turkey Day morning I got the same hit he took last week two plays in a row. I woke up on the bench with smelling sauce and coaches around me. Went back in next series…that’s what happened then. Couldnt untie my cleats before getting on the bus. shoulders hitting first and then the head is horrible. I cringe every time it happens.
I loved virtually every minute I played football, however our son played soccer. Wasn’t even a discussion. He got hurt a bunch, but he ACLs are a whole lot better than concussions.
 
Played the position and on a Turkey Day morning I got the same hit he took last week two plays in a row. I woke up on the bench with smelling sauce and coaches around me. Went back in next series…that’s what happened then. Couldnt untie my cleats before getting on the bus. shoulders hitting first and then the head is horrible. I cringe every time it happens.
I loved virtually every minute I played football, however our son played soccer. Wasn’t even a discussion. He got hurt a bunch, but he ACLs are a whole lot better than concussions.
The shoulder then the whip of the neck and impact of the head is always so scary. Back of the head is so dangerous.
 
Amateur MMA is a little less risky because it's very grappling-heavy. But that's just the meta of the sport right now...

I'm very confident I will have long-term effects from my mma/muay thai/boxing days and I was safer than most.

Boxers especially, I think it's all the hard sparring that ends up with the CTE issues. Boxers go HARD in practice compared to other striking sports. I went through entire 4 month Muay Thai camps to fight professionally and never got my bell rung. From 12-16 when I was boxing, I was seeing stars every day of practice.
It just pissed me off when MMA was in it's mainstream infancy and Dana White and all the other people marketing the sport were bashing boxing while saying their sport was safe and wouldn't have CTE problems. Now that the sport has been around for a bit you see the athletes losing their minds and having trouble speaking as they get older. 90% of them are juiced to the gills and a bunch of them have CTE.

I don't have a problem with boxing and MMA being what they are, we all know the deal and they don't really try to dress it up anymore. They are niche sports like bodybuilding/motocross with people from extremely tough backgrounds who choose the lifestyle because it's better than the streets. Football is ingrained in our culture and the NFL is bigger and more powerful than most Fortune 500 companies and they've used that power and influence for a lot of despicable stuff.
 
I don't know much about head trauma. I do know when a fighter is fencing like that with his hands after head trauma, there's a serious risk of someone literally dying or ending up a vegetable.

The more I see of these injuries, the more I wonder if sports like football and boxing are even worth it.
Today's paper

 
I guess this boils down to if you believe in the NFL protocols. You either believe in them and think this should play out. Or you believe in them and think everyone involved conspired to rig them somehow. Or you think some stricter measures should be in place. There is no eye test for this, and different people can react in different ways to a concussion. The symptoms may vanish quickly for some and linger for others. It's also worth mentioning that not every blow to the head results in a concussion. The only thing we know for sure are that the protocols in place are the ones agreed upon by the NFL and the NFLPA, and if Tua was evaluated every day for any activity that would trigger a response, and passed, what are you supposed to do? Just sit a guy out based on some intuition, etc?

All the results of this are going to be made public, so let's see what the record shows before we fire, hang, or sue anyone.
 
.-.

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