OT: US women's soccer star Megan Rapinoe refuses to stand for the national anthem

[RockyMTblue2]

is the Anthem part of the business?

Rapinoe seems to think so. She got upset when she missed it.

 

[meyers7]

Rapinoe seems to think so. She got upset when she missed it.

She was upset she didn't get to make a spectacle.

 

[UcMiami]

She was upset she didn't get to make a spectacle.

You know, the people who are making this protest are actually doing it in a much more respectful manner than those who are protesting their protest. CK was simply sitting on the bench, most others have been kneeling in silence and actually looking at the flag. The protest of the protest is loud and angry with a lot of nasty signs.

An interesting contrast.

The playing of anthems is pretty universal in soccer and in many other team sporting contests.

 

[meyers7]

You know, the people who are making this protest are actually doing it in a much more respectful manner than those who are protesting their protest.

Except for the fact that the manner is itself disrespectful. (i.e. respectfully being disrespectful, to me that really doesn't gain you a whole lot)

But agree, some of the protesting the protest is disrespectful also. There are idiots everywhere, on all sides.

I think the best way to handle it is to just ignore them. But the media ain't gonna do that.

 

[UcMiami]

Except for the fact that the manner is itself disrespectful. (i.e. respectfully being disrespectful, to me that really doesn't gain you a whole lot)

We are getting into semantics I guess, but any 'protest' by it's very nature is being 'disrespectful' to the thing being protested. In that way you are correct.

But the choice of making a quiet simple gesture as the form of protest of the playing of the national anthem is not detracting from anyone else's ability to experience of that and to perform their own honoring ritual. Those that are protesting in this manner are not interfering with the process, nor demanding that others join them, or trying to disrupt the anthem.

The starkest contrast would before example the actions of the Westboro Church protests, whose whole idea is to interfere and disrupt other people's rituals.

And the protestors against the protest of the anthem are the ones trying to impose their ideas of ritual on the protestors. And doing so frequently in quite vile ways.

It is like the fire and brimstone preachers condemning other faiths/no faith to hell for not participating in their rituals

And while it was an interesting choice by the Washington Spirit, the action they chose to take actually deprived the athletes and late arriving fans of their chance to experience a time honored ritual that the vast majority would have respected. In order to prevent a quiet protest by one athlete, they in effect changed and diminished the ritual they were trying to protect. In that way, I would say Rapinoe 'won'.

One reason for playing of the anthem before athletic events is to take a moment before competition to acknowledge the togetherness of all involved - that while the competition may be fierce, it is still 'friendly', and in this way it is a bookend with the sharing of hands at the conclusion of the competition. Remove the athletes from the ritual and it loses some of its meaning.

 

[Kibitzer]

At some point, I hope that Colin, Megan and their allies will pause in collective thought and seriously ponder questions like these:

Is our form of protest achieving anything? or,
Is it counter-productive and merely disruptive?
​

Then:

What's next? or,
How will we end it?
​

The status quo does not have an infinite life span. Inevitably, someone must blink.

Who?
When?​

 

[NSP Hoops]

Regardless of what any of us think of it, he is, as assorted veterans and apparently the President and various commentators pointed out, certainly within his rights, and she within hers.

That said, I personally would more question the playing of the anthem before sporting events in the first place. I have never quite understood it. I find the honoring of service members from our local Davis Monthan AFB each football game more meaningful. I don't believe that patriotism can be somehow infused into someone by hearing the anthem at a sporting event.

The national anthem being played before games was started as a marketing tool to boost attendance at a baseball game and had little or nothing to do with patriotism or love for the country.

He's trying to bring attention to an issue and believe it or not he is not the first to not stand during the anthem. For years it had never really been much of an issue but in the last 15 years patriotism means more to people than it did when I was young. I would like for our system to address some of the injustices that happened with some reform and not deny that it exist or make more light out of not standing that to the reason for not standing.

 

[Kaizen]

Rapinoe seems to think so. She got upset when she missed it.

She is waiting the Hollywood phone call now.
She is very pissed off no agency called her. She wants to be in TVs and movies like Kim Kardashian, and write several books too.

 

[Uhuru]

Rapinoe is past her prime. Kaepernick carries a clipboard. This is the only way either can now get on ESPN.

 

[Wally East]

She is waiting the Hollywood phone call now.
She is very pissed off no agency called her. She wants to be in TVs and movies like Kim Kardashian, and write several books too.

What are you basing this on?

 

[RockyMTblue2]

What are you basing this on?

Maybe sarcasm with more than a hint of truth? Her team played the National Anthem before the team came out to avoid her display of distain. She is so mad about that she tells her team to" duckk Off." An attention seeking nut job IMO. Worthy of ridicule.

 

[cbraarj]

That is why nothing changes if nothing changes!

 

[BigBird]

The other night, I went to a college volleyball game being broadcast by one of my former on-air partners. It was good to see him again, and we had a good chat.

Game time approached quickly, and I grabbed some popcorn.

When the audience was asked to stand for the anthem, I did. But this time, there was a subtle and real difference. As I rose, I was conciously aware of the fact that I WANTED to do so. It was a real decision that I was pleased and proud to make. I love that flag and that anthem, warts and all. But that night, my participation wasn't by habit; it was by choice.

I appreciate the moral courage of the protesters, even if the current period of refection left me firmly sure that their answer wasn't to be my answer.

 

[Wally East]

Maybe sarcasm with more than a hint of truth? Her team played the National Anthem before the team came out to avoid her display of distain. She is so mad about that she tells her team to" duckk Off." An attention seeking nut job IMO. Worthy of ridicule.

And that makes her Kardashian-esque? Wooo boy. You've started at Point A and wound up at Orange.

 

[UcMiami]

The other night, I went to a college volleyball game being broadcast by one of my former on-air partners. It was good to see him again, and we had a good chat.

Game time approached quickly, and I grabbed some popcorn.

When the audience was asked to stand for the anthem, I did. But this time, there was a subtle and real difference. As I rose, I was conciously aware of the fact that I WANTED to do so. It was a real decision that I was pleased and proud to make. I love that flag and that anthem, warts and all. But that night, my participation wasn't by habit; it was by choice.

I appreciate the moral courage of the protesters, even if the current period of refection left me firmly sure that their answer wasn't to be my answer.

Thanks for this.
One of the problems with frequently performed 'rituals' is they become habit and 'by rote' and so frequently lose their original meaning and significance - one stands because one has always stood. It never hurts to be made to look at these rituals with a fresh perspective.

I remember when with great fanfare a replacement for King James and the common book of pray was introduced in many churches with modernized English - I hated it, but it did make me actually think about the words and meaning of things like the lords pray for the first time in a while.

 

[Kibitzer]

Thanks for this.
One of the problems with frequently performed 'rituals' is they become habit and 'by rote' and so frequently lose their original meaning and significance - one stands because one has always stood. It never hurts to be made to look at these rituals with a fresh perspective.

I remember when with great fanfare a replacement for King James and the common book of pray was introduced in many churches with modernized English - I hated it, but it did make me actually think about the words and meaning of things like the lords pray for the first time in a while.

There have been countless liturgical changes within major international religious faiths over several centuries. Each, to a varying degree, has touched the very souls of a multitude of believers. The playing of a patriotic piece of music (melody lifted from an Olde English Drinking Song) before ball games just doesn't have such a vast scope.

 

[UcMiami]

There have been countless liturgical changes within major international religious faiths over several centuries. Each, to a varying degree, has touched the very souls of a multitude of believers. The playing of a patriotic piece of music (melody lifted from an Olde English Drinking Song) before ball games just doesn't have such a vast scope.

Ah, but a good christian spiritual might work at certain venues! (Oh! When the Saints ...)

 

[Kibitzer]

Coach Preston Brown of Woodrow Wilson High School and most if his players knelt during the playing of the National Anthem before a game in East Camden, New Jersey. Two players did not join the protest and stood during the Anthem.

The coach cited discrimination he had encountered while playing football at Tulane (presumably on athletic scholarship).

A few more incidents like this may end the widespread ritual playing of our National Anthem before games. Look for the NFL to be first. No way the League will condone this every Thursday, Sunday (often) and Monday from September through December or even January.

 

[phil sampieri]

The national anthem being played before games was started as a marketing tool to boost attendance at a baseball game and had little or nothing to do with patriotism or love for the country.

He's trying to bring attention to an issue and believe it or not he is not the first to not stand during the anthem. For years it had never really been much of an issue but in the last 15 years patriotism means more to people than it did when I was young. I would like for our system to address some of the injustices that happened with some reform and not deny that it exist or make more light out of not standing that to the reason for not standing.

Coach Preston Brown of Woodrow Wilson High School and most if his players knelt during the playing of the National Anthem before a game in East Camden, New Jersey. Two players did not join the protest and stood during the Anthem.

The coach cited discrimination he had encountered while playing football at Tulane (presumably on athletic scholarship).

A few more incidents like this may end the widespread ritual playing of our National Anthem before games. Look for the NFL to be first. No way the League will condone this every Thursday, Sunday (often) and Monday from September through December or even January.

Maybe you should offer that anthem played as a marketing tool by ending IMO Where did you find this pearl

 

[Kibitzer]

Maybe you should offer that anthem played as a marketing tool by ending IMO Where did you find this pearl

The "pearl" about the coach at Woodrow Wilson HS in Camden is accessible online. (I got it from Philly newspaper.) NY Daily News has links to stories of more than a dozen HS players in several states "taking a knee" during the National Anthem. As I posted earlier:

What's next?
Will this form of protest grow or peter out?
What form will backlash take?
Who will blink first?​

 

[meyers7]

The national anthem being played before games was started as a marketing tool to boost attendance at a baseball game and had little or nothing to do with patriotism or love for the country.

Not really. It had quite a bit to do with patriotism.

From the archives: History of national anthem in sports

 

[meyers7]

We are getting into semantics I guess, but any 'protest' by it's very nature is being 'disrespectful' to the thing being protested. In that way you are correct.

But the choice of making a quiet simple gesture as the form of protest of the playing of the national anthem is not detracting from anyone else's ability to experience of that and to perform their own honoring ritual. Those that are protesting in this manner are not interfering with the process, nor demanding that others join them, or trying to disrupt the anthem.

The starkest contrast would before example the actions of the Westboro Church protests, whose whole idea is to interfere and disrupt other people's rituals.

And the protestors against the protest of the anthem are the ones trying to impose their ideas of ritual on the protestors. And doing so frequently in quite vile ways.

It is like the fire and brimstone preachers condemning other faiths/no faith to hell for not participating in their rituals

And while it was an interesting choice by the Washington Spirit, the action they chose to take actually deprived the athletes and late arriving fans of their chance to experience a time honored ritual that the vast majority would have respected. In order to prevent a quiet protest by one athlete, they in effect changed and diminished the ritual they were trying to protect. In that way, I would say Rapinoe 'won'.

One reason for playing of the anthem before athletic events is to take a moment before competition to acknowledge the togetherness of all involved - that while the competition may be fierce, it is still 'friendly', and in this way it is a bookend with the sharing of hands at the conclusion of the competition. Remove the athletes from the ritual and it loses some of its meaning.

I was just pointing out your "respectful protest" was actually disrespectful at it's very core. Sure there are certainly better and worse ways to protest, but in this particular instance, the protest itself is disrespectful. The whole idea is to not show respect. Not really semantics, rather truth.

 

[Kibitzer]

A little historic footnote. Francis Scott Key (a lawyer and amateur poet) was a captive, being held on board a British ship as he viewed the intense bombardment of Fort McHenry. When he saw the American flag triumphantly still flying in the aftermath of the brutal bombardment, he was inspired to write a poem. "The Defence of Fort McHenry," from which the lyrics.. about how "bombs bursting in air, the rockets' red glare, Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there."

The cadence of Key's poem fit the tempo of a then known song, "To Anacreon in Heaven" (of the British Anacreontic Society. a social group). It became, as noted elsewhere, wildly popular with the American public.

Finally, in 1931, Key's lyrics ("The Star-Spangled Banner") set to that melody became our our official National Anthem.

 

[DaddyChoc]

and what about the lost "3rd verse"

 

[phil sampieri]

Not really. It had quite a bit to do with patriotism.

From the archives: History of national anthem in sports

Totally agree, it was the patriotic fans who participated in song that made that day special. A stretch to say it was first played to get more people in the stands.