OT: US women's soccer star Megan Rapinoe refuses to stand for the national anthem

[Wally East]

At no point in my comment did I imply woman do not have courage, simply used a common term heard all the time by both sexes.

Do better next time, that's all.

 

[DaddyChoc]

does Colin's protest mean anything... we're talking about kneeling, jersey sales and money... but is anyone going to admit to the discrimination/police brutality that goes on every day or that's not your problem?

it may not even exist to you, or you may not care cause it has nothing to do with you

 

[DaddyChoc]

 

[meyers7]

Yeah, but the National Anthem is already politicized speech. Your opinion seems to be that only one type of politics is allowed in the pre-game ceremony and is compulsory. Does that seem very American?

It's allowed. I don't think anyone is saying it's not allowed. It's just disrespectful and kind of stupid.

 

[meyers7]

As a national team member of the women's team that gets paid a fraction of what her much less successful male counterparts get paid? And she was not a member of the national team when she did so, but a private citizen playing for a privately own team.

Don't go there. You don't know what you are talking about.

e.g. She is being paid by the WNT to play for that privately owned team.

 

[meyers7]

Just another thought, and this may skirt 'political' a little closely, but it is interesting to me that many of those who were very sympathetic to Cliven Bundy and his armed revolt against the US government and those who supported or were sympathetic to the Oregon militia armed revolt against the US government, including many bloggers and TV commentators, find a peaceful and simple protest by an athlete reprehensible.

You wanna see heads explode? Have Tim Tebow bow in prayer during the National Anthem.

Before playing those cards, just remember EVERYONE is a hypocrite.

 

[meyers7]

does Colin's protest mean anything... we're talking about kneeling, jersey sales and money... but is anyone going to admit to the discrimination/police brutality that goes on every day or that's not your problem?

it may not even exist to you, or you may not care cause it has nothing to do with you

That's all people have been talking about all summer.

 

[Phillyconn]

What Kibitzer said! I served 22 years and never saw systemic discrimination by the military. In fact I saw just the opposite where the military often bent over backwards to accommodate minorities.

How did the military bend over backwards? Tell me just one story.

 

[Wally East]

It's allowed. I don't think anyone is saying it's not allowed. It's just disrespectful and kind of stupid.

When someone says, "This isn't the appropriate time," they usually/often/always mean, "No, don't do that now. Do it some other time."

 

[mdakota]

Yeah, but the National Anthem is already politicized speech. Your opinion seems to be that only one type of politics is allowed in the pre-game ceremony and is compulsory. Does that seem very American?

Please don't tell me what my opinion seems to be... You can offer up your opinion, but don't disrespect others to make your point. Everyone has their own opinion of what is deemed "American". Clearly we have different views on that. If you don't think that this tradition should be upheld, write your congressman or congresswoman. Leave me out of it...

 

[Wally East]

Please don't tell me what my opinion seems to be...

Of course I can explain what appear to be the logical outcomes of your opinion. If one says, "I believe X," it only makes sense to say, "Well, that also means A, B, and C. Did you realize that?"

 

[mdakota]

Of course I can explain what appear to be the logical outcomes of your opinion. If one says, "I believe X," it only makes sense to say, "Well, that also means A, B, and C. Did you realize that?"

No, you are implying.... don't imply... I NEVER mentioned anything about the national anthem being a politicized message... you did... Don't drag your conspiracy theory crap and imply that's what I meant.. that's on you... In fact please don't quote me again... Thank you.. Have a nice life...

You're not the only one who can be rude... so don't push it...

 

[Fairfield Fan]

How did the military bend over backwards? Tell me just one story.

Colin Powell became the country's first chief of staff of the military. Yet he would not have become a general had the discrimination that held him and other African-Americans back been eliminated. Here's a Times column by the former secretary of the army during the Carter administration, Clifford Alexander:

Colin Powell's Promotion: The Real Story

"Mr. Powell and several other black colonels received their first stars while I was Secretary of the Army, from 1977 to 1981. All of those black men, and one black woman, were as qualified to move up the chain of command as their white colleagues. They all served their nation with distinction. I did not promote these black people to the rank of general officer through an Army- or Cliff Alexander-invented affirmative action plan.

"But those promotions, including Colin Powell's, did not just happen. At an early point in my tenure as Secretary, I held up a list of proposed general officers because no black colonels had been promoted, even though many had achieved that rank and served with distinction. I met with the General Officer Board, and other boards subsequent to the first one, and gave them a series of instructions.

"They were told to look back at the early records of the eligible black colonels to see if their ratings in past years had been in any way influenced by the prejudices of the rating officers or if they had received lesser assignments or had been kept out of command positions because of the racial predisposition of any assigning superior officer. If such inconsistency was found, the board was instructed to eliminate the unfair rating and judge the people, both black and white, only by fair and equitable criteria.

"The boards followed my directives, and the result was equity and fairness. Black people with sterling records emerged on those lists. Yes, Colin Powell was like his white fellow generals -- no better, no worse. He did not get anything extra -- but more important, his white colleagues did not get anything extra either."

 

[CocoHusky]

The Army is much like The United States of America, neither is perfect but each is best of breed. The US Army & military is the best institution that provides a level playing field of opportunity. This does not mean the military if free of discrimination it simply means that it is less discriminatory-more merit based than other similar institutions. The US may never live up to its creed of equal opportunity but of all the countries in the world none shows more tolerance of individual liberty. @Kibitzer Colin Powell time in the Army 1958-1993 overlaps yours and his biography certainly speaks of “institutionalized” discrimination.

We are too wrapped up in our symbols. As a catholic altar boy I was taught that the communion wafer is sacred and it should never touch the ground. As a young adult in the military I was taught the same thing about the US flag. As an adult I still believe in both with this simple reconciliation: the US flag that I was taught should never touch the ground, is the same flag (Symbol) that my neighbor is allowed to burn in protest. Simply put the flag and our national anthem means something different for everyone. For me the US flag & National anthem are symbols and a celebration of the goodness of America. Colin views the flag and the national anthem as an opportunity (symbol) to point out something that is not so good in America. The GREATNESS of AMERICA is that I get to tell Colin -Dude I wished you had picked a different symbol!

 

[Wally East]

I'm not being rude. I'm also not implying anything. This has nothing to do with conspiracy theories. I'm now not sure you know what any of those words mean. (That's a legitimate doubt, not me being rude.)

Of course the National Anthem is political. Here's a definition from Wikipedia:

A national anthem (also state anthem, national hymn, national song etc.) is generally a patriotic musical composition that evokes and eulogizes the history, traditions and struggles of its people, recognized either by a nation's government as the official national song, or by convention through use by the people.

That's all political. Here's a definition of political from Merriam-Webster:

Simple Definition of political

• : of or relating to politics or government
  
  
• : interested in or active in politics
  
  
• : involving, concerned with, or accused of acts against a government

A national anthem falls into the first point. It has to do with glorifying the nation and the government. Just as protesting against the government are political, so, too, are demonstrations in favor of the government, regardless of the form they take. Working for change is political. Working for the status quo is ALSO political.

 

[j66kicker]

John Tortorella, coach of the US team getting ready to play in the hockey WC in a couple weeks, says any of his players who doesn't stand for the national anthem will stay on the bench.

 

[CocoHusky]

John Tortorella, coach of the US team getting ready to play in the hockey WC in a couple weeks, says any of his players who doesn't stand for the national anthem will stay on the bench.

Bad timing on John's part I would think, a couple of weeks is long enough to find a new coach.

 

[meyers7]

When someone says, "This isn't the appropriate time," they usually/often/always mean, "No, don't do that now. Do it some other time."

Sure, but that doesn't mean it's not allowed. And in this instance I think it has more to do with the setting.

 

[Bestiarius]

Simple Definition of political

• : of or relating to politics or government
  
  
• : interested in or active in politics
  
  
• : involving, concerned with, or accused of acts against a government

.

Or even simpler: The word 'politics' is derived from the word 'poly', meaning 'many', and the word 'ticks', meaning 'blood sucking parasites'

 

[Wally East]

Or even simpler: The word 'politics' is derived from the word 'poly', meaning 'many', and the word 'ticks', meaning 'blood sucking parasites'

 

[mdakota]

Is there a way to ignore someone on this board? Thanks.

 

[mdakota]

Never mind. Found it. Thank you.

 

[Bigpetunia]

Whenever issues such as this arise, as they often do, I am unfailingly taken aback by the nature of so many responses…responses that illustrate widespread failure to understand the most important founding principles upon which our nation was established. These are the principles that are reverently enshrined in our most important founding documents, the very documents so trumpeted by blatantly phony politicians whose chest thumping makes a mockery of any proper notion of patriotism.

I am a white, ardently heterosexual male. As such, I consider myself unqualified to stand in the shoes of those from any of the other sub-groups that comprise our population, and it would be inappropriate for me to suggest that I can do so. Like it or not (I like it!), diversity is the ultimate destiny of our country. That reality, by definition, inevitably leads to different forms of both discrimination and misunderstanding. In other words, it leads to different forms of protest, many of which, as in this case, the majority will surely find offensive. If they didn’t, those forms would, of course, be much less effective

Bertrand Russell, no stranger to controversy himself, famously cracked that patriotism is the willingness to kill or be killed for reasons that are trivial. Though I understand his point, especially in the light of some of the recent conflicts in which our nation has been engaged, it is overly cute and fundamentally wrong…wrong for the simple reason that there do, in fact, exist principles worth fighting, and potentially dying for. One of the easiest exercises on our planet is identifying countries that would respond to protests such as the ones in which these athletes engaged with imprisonment, torture, and/or death. Our primary focus should, I think, be on a jubilant celebration of the fact that we reside in a country in which such protests can be expressed with relative impunity.

In short, I have ZERO problem with those who state that they find such protests disrespectful and offensive. I just think the next sentence should always be, “But I would surrender my life fighting to defend his or her right to do so!”

 

[CocoHusky]

Is there a way to ignore someone on this board? Thanks.

I just like to point out the obvious flaw of the ignore button.
When you have a person on ignore you cannot really tell how much you are getting through to them, and since you have them on ignore they already have obviously gotten through to you!

 

[Wally East]

Never mind. Found it. Thank you.

So long and thanks for all the fish

(10 points to anyone who gets the reference )