OT: US women's soccer star Megan Rapinoe refuses to stand for the national anthem | The Boneyard

OT: US women's soccer star Megan Rapinoe refuses to stand for the national anthem

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I admit to be shoulder shrugging over this issue; for some reason (maybe because, as a child of the '60s, I've seen it all before) it just doesn't resonate with me. But the other day I was with folks who were surprisingly passionate in defense of Kaepernick, and now Obama risked a firestorm by coming out, not so much "in favor" but in support of personal decisions. So, I guess we all need to work through our feelings on this. At the moment, I'm thinking that at the very least, it helps, in a non-violent way, to crystallize some of the very wide social divisions in America. If we discuss this stuff without the use of violence, that shouldn't be a bad thing, and Kaepernick is making us think about that.
 

UcMiami

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Shouldn't this thread in a differerent forum?
It is an OT: thread during the 'off-season' so as long as it doesn't get too political it should be OK.
I have a couple of comments that I hope will skirt that issue:
1. We have always had a certain amount of jingoistic rhetoric in this country, and this particular issue has certainly pumped up the volume on that. The idea of disrespecting the the military is a total non-starter for me - the oath of office for military and federal employees does not contain either the flag or the anthem, but the constitution, which specifically protects freedom of speech and expression. The hash tag #VeteransForKaepernick is a very interesting read. In my mind veterans and the flag have been used by politicians and pundits too often as 'cover' for some really bad actions and ideologies. And veterans and serving personnel have their own issues about how they have been used and treated by their fellow citizens and government.

2. Robinson, a national icon for breaking the color barrier in baseball, had his own issue expressed in his autobiography about the national anthem that are very similar to those expressed by Colin.

3. I can certainly understand why Rapinoe and other members of the LGBTQ community would find common cause.

4. The Santa Clara police threat to discontinue providing security to SF games strikes me as the same kind of chicken___ response as was seen from the MN police over the Lynx protest. This is the whole crux of the issue - as a police officer you do not get to pick and choose which segments of your community you serve and protect, nor do you get to treat different segments differently.

5. One last comment - I find much more reprehensible the NFL and other fat-cat sports franchises charging the military millions of dollars to present 'patriotic displays' prior to games, than any quiet protest by athletes. Those were my tax dollars being spent. Seems the franchise's patriotism was being bought and paid for.
 
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KnightBridgeAZ

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Regardless of what any of us think of it, he is, as assorted veterans and apparently the President and various commentators pointed out, certainly within his rights, and she within hers.

That said, I personally would more question the playing of the anthem before sporting events in the first place. I have never quite understood it. I find the honoring of service members from our local Davis Monthan AFB each football game more meaningful. I don't believe that patriotism can be somehow infused into someone by hearing the anthem at a sporting event.
 
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Adesmar123, Isn't that the problem..he isn't standing?

Good catch, I didn't find that.
Now Kaepernick changed his hair style and wants to have his brand jersey and shoe. LOL he is a smart business man.
 

JordyG

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As OT as this topic is I'm kind of surprised at how open mind and well thought through the responses are here. Well, not really. This is The Boneyard. I love this forum. And guys, I love this country to death, as clearly all of you here do as well. What bothers me in this country is how some value (over value?) our 2nd amendment rights while frequently devaluing our 1st amendment rights. There is a reason why it is our Constitution's first amendment. There is a reason for Voltaire's phrase "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it". It is the very backbone of our democratic republic, and I for one would not see any of it diluted.
 

Adesmar123

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As OT as this topic is I'm kind of surprised at how open mind and well thought through the responses are here. Well, not really. This is The Boneyard. I love this forum. And guys, I love this country to death, as clearly all of you here do as well. What bothers me in this country is how some value (over value?) our 2nd amendment rights while frequently devaluing our 1st amendment rights. There is a reason why it is our Constitution's first amendment. There is a reason for Voltaire's phrase "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it". It is the very backbone of our democratic republic, and I for one would not see any of it diluted.


Agreed. And so some people use that First Amendment right to criticize both of them.
 
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She told American Soccer Now after the game: "It was very intentional. It was a little nod to Kaepernick and everything that he's standing for right now."

Any comments ?

US women's soccer star Megan Rapinoe refuses to stand for the national anthem
My problem with this form of protest is that only enemies of a country disrespects another country's flag. If Kaepernick or Rapinoe had any real should I say footballs or soccer balls they would show a pair. Announce your displeasure and leave the country in protest. Refuse to accept American dollars which all contain patriotic symbols along with the stars and stripes!
Rapinoe could find a nice welcome in Afghanistan as they love soccer. Kaepernick would receive a nice welcome in North Korea as Kim Jong-un has an affinity for strange Americans.
This form of protest is disrespectful of every man or woman who made the supreme sacrifice for what these two have. Along with millions of others that may have not died but put in blood and sweat to protect the flag. This and still others that have volunteered but got turned down due to disabilities.
 

BigBird

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What bothers me in this country is how some value (over value?) our 2nd amendment rights while frequently devaluing our 1st amendment rights. There is a reason why it is our Constitution's first amendment.

Love your post, but a correction, if I may. The First Amendment is first only because after the proposed amendments were sent to the states for ratification, the first two were not agreed to. These two were struck off, and the rest that passed were renumbered. The third amendment was promoted to the top by this somewhat random legislative attrition.

The Bill of Rights is not in order by legal priority. The first is not superior to, nor does it outweigh the second, etcetera. For a further evidence of this and example, the Sixth Amendment (fair trial) actually takes precedence over your or my First Amendment free speech or press rights. (See Sol Estes v. Texas, USCT 1965).

The First Amendment makes much more sense if you read it as the amalgam of notions that it clearly is. All five of the distinct parts of it deal at their root with freedom of thought. At the constitutional convention, the framers put forth several ideas about the freedom of discourse necessary to sustain a democracy. This helps to explain how religious choice (no "state" religion, as in England), and the right to petition the government for redress wound up residing in the same legislative proximity. In the end, the key ideas (five of them) were selected and were rolled together into the (then) third amendment.

Sorry if I sound too professorial. Interesting thread.
 
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BigBird

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There are many ways to protest but refusing to honor the flag is not an acceptable one, IMO. I am about as liberal as you can get and this one rubs even me the wrong way.

Texas, it grinds on me too, for reasons that are as deeply personal for me as are those of others, some of whom sincerely disagree with both of us.

But our disagreement and discourse can eventually lead us to peaceful resolution of our differences and a better country or community as a result.

I think the framers of the Constitution would wince at the first sentence, but be both satisfied and pleased by the second.
 

JordyG

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Love your post, but a correction, if I may. The First Amendment is first only because after the proposed amendments were sent to the states for ratification, the first two were not agreed to. These two were struck off, and the rest that passed were renumbered. The third amendment was promoted to the top by this somewhat random legislative attrition.

The Bill of Rights is not in order by legal priority. The first is not superior to, nor does it outweigh the second, etcetera. For a further evidence of this and example, the Sixth Amendment (fair trial) actually takes precedence over your or my First Amendment free speech or press rights. (See Sol Estes v. Texas, USCT 1965).

The First Amendment makes much more sense if you read it as the amalgam of notions that it clearly is. All five of the distinct parts of it deal at their root with freedom of thought. At the constitutional convention, the framers put forth several ideas about the freedom of discourse necessary to sustain a democracy. This helps to explain how religious choice (no "state" religion, as in England), and the right to petition the government for redress wound up residing in the same legislative proximity. In the end, the key ideas (five of them) were selected and were rolled together into the (then) third amendment.

Sorry if I sound too professorial. Interesting thread.
I appreciate the correction. No amendment supersedes another.
 
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Texas, it grinds on me too, for reasons that are as deeply personal for me as are those of others, some of whom sincerely disagree with both of us.

But our disagreement and discourse can eventually lead us to peaceful resolution of our differences and a better country or community as a result.

I think the framers of the Constitution would wince at the first sentence, but be both satisfied and pleased by the second.
My problem with this form of protest is that only enemies of a country disrespects another country's flag. If Kaepernick or Rapinoe had any real should I say footballs or soccer balls they would show a pair. Announce your displeasure and leave the country in protest. Refuse to accept American dollars which all contain patriotic symbols along with the stars and stripes!
Rapinoe could find a nice welcome in Afghanistan as they love soccer. Kaepernick would receive a nice welcome in North Korea as Kim Jong-un has an affinity for strange Americans.
This form of protest is disrespectful of every man or woman who made the supreme sacrifice for what these two have. Along with millions of others that may have not died but put in blood and sweat to protect the flag. This and still others that have volunteered but got turned down due to disabilities.

So if you love someone or something but you aren't seeing eye to eye. Don’t bring the issues to the table for discussion. The best answer is to simply leave?

Hope you aren't married with children.
 

UcMiami

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I had never known about the third verse of the national anthem, so was very interested to actually read all the verses.

I always have a problem with people who say 'if you don't agree, then leave.' This wonderful union of ours is a work in progress and we are hopefully on a constant journey toward a more perfect union - should all of the women who wanted the vote have left before that amendment was passed, should all blacks have left before the civil war - most would have liked to in the south but they were property and could be shot and killed for 'running away'. Every politician in this country criticizes various aspects of our society and government on a daily basis, should they leave (probably would be an improvement for the rest of us! :)) I would say our president, and the office of the president is a great symbol of our country, yet every president in history has been 'disrespected' by many, and our current president has suffered through more than most.

There was a time when the flag was 'sacrosanct' and various laws were in place that made it a crime to deface it, burn it, wear it, whatever - all of those laws were judged unconstitutional and while some are probably on the books, they are no longer enforced. Olympic athletes draping the flag over their sweaty shoulders would in times past be considered disrespectful but is now almost required behavior.

I too find the playing of the anthem before sporting events to be a little strange, but then when in England they play their anthem before movies and other performances, though british visitors always comment on how many flags are flying in the USA.

The truth is, we have a long history of discrimination against various segments of our population, and we have tended to lag behind many other countries in correcting that discrimination, as we do today in many areas.

I do not think either Colin or Megan are trying to become spokespeople for either people of color or the LGBTQ community, but they are using what fame they have to bring attention to issues that exist for both communities. There has been a long history of sports figures doing so.

I found a couple of on-line commentary points quite interesting:
1. The black power protest at the Olympics 48 years ago raised a huge stir, but at no time did anyone mention that it was 'disrespectful to the military' - but then we had the draft, half the country was against the war, including a significant portion of the soldiers themselves.
2. Gabby Douglas, who stood respectfully during the national anthem on the medal stand had to apologize for not having her hand over her heart, while various other USA athletes were joking around during the medal ceremony and no one said a word. Double standard?
3. The fact that people were making a point of burning Colin's jerseys, but no one burned a Ray Rice jersey, or a jersey of Aaron Hernandez, or for any of the other sports heroes who have committed significant crimes is telling.
4. The local police are providing extra protection for Brock Turner the convicted rapist now that he is out of prison, at the same time that another police union is threatening to cancel their contract with the 49ers is a pretty interesting juxtaposition. (I wonder how many other convicted rapists get special security when they get out of prison? and at taxpayers expense!)
 

cohenzone

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As OT as this topic is I'm kind of surprised at how open mind and well thought through the responses are here. Well, not really. This is The Boneyard. I love this forum. And guys, I love this country to death, as clearly all of you here do as well. What bothers me in this country is how some value (over value?) our 2nd amendment rights while frequently devaluing our 1st amendment rights. There is a reason why it is our Constitution's first amendment. There is a reason for Voltaire's phrase "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it". It is the very backbone of our democratic republic, and I for one would not see any of it dilutedge .
You said a mouthful brother. To boot, the 1st and 4th amendments are what really give us freedom guarantees and the 1st in particular has many exceptions that prohibit certain sorts of speech while numb nuts second amendment radicals go bat crap nuts over reasonable limitations on who can buy deadly weapons, forget the kind of weapons. We have become a ridiculous society, if society be the right word.
 

Kibitzer

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After 237 years or so, we still have not attained that "perfect union" we have been striving for -- under the very flag that has inspired millions but is now being publicly dissed by a few.

The sitting and kneeling protesters have every right to express themselves as they have and there is surely some justification for their actions.

I tolerate what they are doing but I don't like it. Not at all.
 

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