OT: US women's soccer star Megan Rapinoe refuses to stand for the national anthem

[calpedaler]

So long and thanks for all the fish

(10 points to anyone who gets the reference )

 

[phil sampieri]

There are many ways to protest but refusing to honor the flag is not an acceptable one, IMO. I am about as liberal as you can get and this one rubs even me the wrong way.

I fail to see what this does, other than have people talking about it. Yes, there is racial profiling and injustices to people of color by
SOME rogue policemen. My suggestion is all these millionaire atheletes should form a citizens group and fund it so that the best private investigators
research every instance of mistreatment and if found guilty bring a lawsuit against the city or town, then that will fund the citizens group going mforward.
Like all people of color are not criminals nor are all policemen bigots. Disrespecting the flag that I served my country for just irks me to no end. do something that is not going to go away in a month.

 

[mdakota]

I just like to point out the obvious flaw of the ignore button.
When you have a person on ignore you cannot really tell how much you are getting through to them, and since you have them on ignore they already have obviously gotten through to you!

I don't care to get through to anyone who just wants to argue. There's no point. But thank you for responding in a kind and thoughtful manner. I appreciate it.

 

[Kibitzer]

@[B]Kibitzer[/B] Colin Powell time in the Army 1958-1993 overlaps yours and his biography certainly speaks of “institutionalized” discrimination.

Colin Powell's time in the Army overlaps mine coincidentally on one unusual occasion. I still retain a copy of General Orders No.1, dated 2 January 1964, from the Military Assistance Advisory Group-Vietnam.

Twelve officers were awarded the Purple Heart. My name was 6th on the list (20 Nov 63); Captain Colin L. Powell was #12 (23 Jul 63).

That's as close as I ever got to this great American.

 

[Wally East]

I don't care to get through to anyone who just wants to argue. There's no point. But thank you for responding in a kind and thoughtful manner. I appreciate it.

Knowing that someone has you on ignore can be very freeing, in case anyone is wondering

 

[easttexastrash]

I don't care to get through to anyone who just wants to argue. There's no point. But thank you for responding in a kind and thoughtful manner. I appreciate it.

You and I could not agree more on this one. There are people I simply choose not to deal with as it makes my life much more serene. I don't need to argue in order to expand my view of the world.

 

[easttexastrash]

Knowing that someone has you on ignore can be very freeing, in case anyone is wondering

I can't even start to imagine how many members have me on "ignore." I am guessing that I may be the most free person on the board.

 

[UcMiami]

Bigpetunia - nicely stated.
Obviously everyone has a right to come down on any side of this issue. I just find the inconsistencies of responses to this and other controversies troubling.

For those who served, and I did not, I appreciate the responses here and in other places on this subject. Like other diversities in our society, service in the military (and more specifically in combat) is a distinction that is becoming a smaller and smaller percentage of our population as the WW veterans, Korean veterans, and even the Viet Nam veterans (all wars fought with a draft) age and pass away. I do not presume to know how each of you feel about the various symbols and trappings that are representative of our country.

For me personally, I find the worship of symbols to be problematic - whether that be a flag, a cross, a star, a book, a 'prophet', or a 'god'. Those symbols are too often held up as a way to silence both criticism and discussion and are used to preclude deep introspection. It seems to me that all the advantages of our interconnected world have a way of creating greater noise and more polarization as various symbols become cudgels to bash down dissenting views.

By the way, I prefer Johnson to Russell: Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. It speaks to what I was trying to express in the previous paragraph.

 

[UcMiami]

I can't even start to imagine how many members have me on "ignore." I am guessing that I may be the most free person on the board.

Ah, but haven't you heard that 'freedom isn't free!'

 

[UcMiami]

The US may never live up to its creed of equal opportunity but of all the countries in the world none shows more tolerance of individual liberty.

While I do not strongly disagree with the above statement, I believe there are a few other countries that exhibit equal and possibly greater individual liberties depending on how you want to 'measure' degrees of liberty. I do believe there is no better governing document than our constitution, and I certainly would never give up my birthright, but we do fall short of perfection.

 

[calpedaler]

Ah, but haven't you heard that 'freedom isn't free!'

I've heard that "Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose".

 

[Phillyconn]

Colin Powell became the country's first chief of staff of the military. Yet he would not have become a general had the discrimination that held him and other African-Americans back been eliminated. Here's a Times column by the former secretary of the army during the Carter administration, Clifford Alexander:

Colin Powell's Promotion: The Real Story

"Mr. Powell and several other black colonels received their first stars while I was Secretary of the Army, from 1977 to 1981. All of those black men, and one black woman, were as qualified to move up the chain of command as their white colleagues. They all served their nation with distinction. I did not promote these black people to the rank of general officer through an Army- or Cliff Alexander-invented affirmative action plan.

"But those promotions, including Colin Powell's, did not just happen. At an early point in my tenure as Secretary, I held up a list of proposed general officers because no black colonels had been promoted, even though many had achieved that rank and served with distinction. I met with the General Officer Board, and other boards subsequent to the first one, and gave them a series of instructions.

"They were told to look back at the early records of the eligible black colonels to see if their ratings in past years had been in any way influenced by the prejudices of the rating officers or if they had received lesser assignments or had been kept out of command positions because of the racial predisposition of any assigning superior officer. If such inconsistency was found, the board was instructed to eliminate the unfair rating and judge the people, both black and white, only by fair and equitable criteria.

"The boards followed my directives, and the result was equity and fairness. Black people with sterling records emerged on those lists. Yes, Colin Powell was like his white fellow generals -- no better, no worse. He did not get anything extra -- but more important, his white colleagues did not get anything extra either."

That's considered "bending over backwards"? Promoting a black officer, who deserved it. WOW!

 

[CocoHusky]

That's considered "bending over backwards"? Promoting a black officer, who deserved it. WOW!

@Phillyconn I had to wade through this a couple times also. @Fairfield Fan are you posting as an example that there was discrimination (deserving black officers held back from promotion) or that the military bent over backwards to correct the discrimination?

 

[Monte]

Everyone is entitled to their free speech, but there is a time and a place for it. I think it's disrespectful to do that during the National Anthem. How would any of you feel if an Olympian did that during a medal ceremony? While this isn't exactly the same thing, it's close. These athletes have a following and can express themselves at any time, and in my opinion this isn't the appropriate time.

I saw 2 lawyers on TV tonight discussing the issue. They stated that IF the objecting person is a professional, his/her employer can demand that they stand.

 

[DaddyChoc]

Bigpetunia - nicely stated.
Obviously everyone has a right to come down on any side of this issue. I just find the inconsistencies of responses to this and other controversies troubling.

For those who served, and I did not, I appreciate the responses here and in other places on this subject. Like other diversities in our society, service in the military (and more specifically in combat) is a distinction that is becoming a smaller and smaller percentage of our population as the WW veterans, Korean veterans, and even the Viet Nam veterans (all wars fought with a draft) age and pass away. I do not presume to know how each of you feel about the various symbols and trappings that are representative of our country.

For me personally, I find the worship of symbols to be problematic - whether that be a flag, a cross, a star, a book, a 'prophet', or a 'god'. Those symbols are too often held up as a way to silence both criticism and discussion and are used to preclude deep introspection. It seems to me that all the advantages of our interconnected world have a way of creating greater noise and more polarization as various symbols become cudgels to bash down dissenting views.

By the way, I prefer Johnson to Russell: Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. It speaks to what I was trying to express in the previous paragraph.

yup... and Im still waiting for someone to rightfully so defend Colin's protest or do they prefer to say "shut up, stand up, put your hand on your heart, play football and make millions"

 

[meyers7]

Nice move by the Spirit.

Megan Rapinoe plan nixed as Washington Spirit move national anthem up

 

[CocoHusky]

I saw 2 lawyers on TV tonight discussing the issue. They stated that IF the objecting person is a professional, his/her employer can demand that they stand.

Depends on the employer. Colin's employer the NFL cannot require him to stand during the National Anthem because no one though it important enough to include in the NFL CBA. The NBA on the other hand via the CBA requires its players to stand respectfully during the playing of the National Anthem. Were Colin an NBA player he could have been fined for not standing.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Nice move by the Spirit.

Megan Rapinoe plan nixed as Washington Spirit move national anthem up

Of course, she couldn't keep her trap shut about it.

Megan Rapinoe has profane words for Washington Spirit

Her reaction belies her intent. Wish athletes would stick to business during business hours.

 

[Kibitzer]

Of course, she couldn't keep her trap shut about it.

Megan Rapinoe has profane words for Washington Spirit

Well, Ms Rapinoe, I have some profane words for you.

 

[meyers7]

Of course, she couldn't keep her trap shut about it.

Of course, that's kind of the/her whole idea.

 

[CPD016]

Is there a way to ignore someone on this board? Thanks.

Because of the various views that people have on this board there are going to be disagreements. When someone disagrees with what was written the writer can try to clarify his or her position - or not. I personally will not reply to someone I don't respect. Life is too short to waste my precious time on them

 

[DaddyChoc]

Of course, she couldn't keep her trap shut about it.

Megan Rapinoe has profane words for Washington Spirit

Her reaction belies her intent. Wish athletes would stick to business during business hours.

is the Anthem part of the business?

 

[meyers7]

is the Anthem part of the business?

Could argue it both ways. Is it part of playing soccer? No. Is it part of the whole entertainment show/production? Yes.

 

[Bigpetunia]

The next time some breathtakingly dim legislator rises to advocate an amendment to our Constitution to make flag burning and the like punishable offenses, I hope we all remember how lacking is his or her understanding of the document that he or she seeks to amend.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

is the Anthem part of the business?

I'm ambivalent on that question. When repetition makes it rote and meaningless white noise ... but that is in the eye of the beholder isn't it. I'm a citizen of this country by choice. Too many take the USA for granted these days. We need some reminders that democracy and freedom take work. I don't think disrespecting this nation's symbol of freedom hard won advaces anyone's cause, but heck ... it's a free country (still, but....).