OT: TIGER

[DaddyChoc]

Not your fault and do not be sorry. Sometimes it gets nasty here. You wanted to start a thread extolling some fine golf play from one of the greatest of all time that included an all time great shot on the 16th Hole; BUT, the haters came out. You are new here so take heed to the subjects and to the people that draw the most ire. When venturing into those areas, just be well armed with facts and you will be fine.

what shot on the 16th hole? that wasnt the reason for this thread. (sarcasm button OFF)

 

[mauconnfan]

That's BS. They hired him because he won and he WAS a likeable athlete. Dood, people don't buy stuff from sponsors when their spokesperson lies, which is why he was dropped by many of them.

Dude live his life and see ow holier than thou you would be......people make mistakes and move on.....none of us can know what his life was like from Dad on to his marriage. Is it a shame hell yeah? But the man can change and be forgiven except from those like you who never ever made any mistakes. Remember if you mae a mistake and compared it to Tiger, bring in the fact everyone on earth knows him, srcutinizes him and he has millions and millions to do anything hewants with. You have your opinion and that's fine. Funny thing is he certainly may be even more likeable now watch him on the course! But people like you wouldn't know becaus ethe blinders have been on since 20-09 because your so damn perfect!! Funny

 

[pinotbear]

I do love a coherent, concise, grammatically well-presented argument.

 

[vtcwbuff]

I do love a coherent, concise, grammatically well-presented argument.

He probably took your meds.

I'm having a problem wondering what all the fuss is about. I thought that the thread was a civil discussion (and disagreement) about a controversial athlete. Vitriol?

 

[DaddyChoc]

He probably took your meds.

I'm having a problem wondering what all the fuss is about. I thought that the thread was a civil discussion (and disagreement) about a controversial athlete. Vitriol?

I thought it was about the 16th hole on Sunday

 

[Icebear]

I thought it was about the 16th hole on Sunday

Yes, ou thought that but it was far from clear and especially so if someone wasn't watching golf.

 

[DaddyChoc]

Yes, ou thought that but it was far from clear and especially so if someone wasn't watching golf.

ok

 

[UChusky916]

The only thing the US media loves more than a public downfall is redemption.

Everything Tiger does will be under a microscope because he is Tiger.

I think the media attention he received was unfair when you consider the fact that he didn't break the law. Yes, golf is a game of honor and honesty, and he betrayed those cardinal rules, and I am in no way excusing his behavior. However many other high-profile athletes have done far worse, harmed more people, and received FAR less scrutiny.

Hope the guy can beat Jack's record just because I hate the US media and his redemption would be a sour thing to handle for many that love seeing someone torn down.

 

[vtcwbuff]

Most in this thread seem to think that the animus re Woods stems from his private life. That may be true for those that don't follow the PGA but it's not the case with most golf fans.

Golf fans that dislike Woods do so for a number of reasons having nothing to do with his screwing around on his wife. I frequent several golf forums and my guess is that when the story broke, envy was probably the #1 response.

Tiger Woods is really, really good. He has been more than good for the PGA. With Woods in contention the ratings for this year's Memorial were nearly triple what they were last year. I love to watch him when he's on his game.

However his (perceived ?) arrogance, his often boorish on course behavior, the fact that he's black, and more than a little schadenfreude and you have a recipe for dislike from a lot of fans. Personally, I was a fan of Woods until his behavior in the Fuzzy Zoeller affair convinced me that he's not deserving of my respect.

 

[DaddyChoc]

Golf fans that dislike Woods do so for a number of reasons having nothing to do with his screwing around on his wife. I frequent several golf forums and my guess is that when the story broke, envy was probably the #1 response.


However his (perceived ?) arrogance, his often boorish on course behavior, the fact that he's black, and more than a little schadenfreude and you have a recipe for dislike from a lot of fans.

good points

 

[Fishy]

However his (perceived ?) arrogance, his often boorish on course behavior, the fact that he's black, and more than a little schadenfreude and you have a recipe for dislike from a lot of fans. Personally, I was a fan of Woods until his behavior in the Fuzzy Zoeller affair convinced me that he's not deserving of my respect.

Zoeller makes a fried chicken and collard greens joke about Tiger Woods and you had a problem with Woods' behavior? That's bat s*** crazy.

I thought Woods handled it very, very well - there was an ugly edge to Zoeller's 'joke' and the manner with which it was delivered. Woods accepted his apology, albeit seemingly with some reservations.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_n3_v92/ai_19491808/

 

[vtcwbuff]

Zoeller makes a fried chicken and collard greens joke about Tiger Woods and you had a problem with Woods' behavior? That's bat s*** crazy.

I thought Woods handled it very, very well - there was an ugly edge to Zoeller's 'joke' and the manner with which it was delivered. Woods accepted his apology, albeit seemingly with some reservations.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_n3_v92/ai_19491808/[/quote]

A half in the bag Zoeller said something stupid and insensitive that was intended to be a joke. It was never intended to be offensive. Zoeller apologized and Woods' camp let him dangle in a typical media lynching. It wasn't until after Zoeller's sponsor's had dumped him and his career was ruined that Woods accepted his apology.

Larry Elder has it right in this article following the Shaq comments about Yao Ming. Read the article and then decide who's bat crazy.

 

[John Fryer]

A half in the bag Zoeller said something stupid and insensitive that was intended to be a joke. It was never intended to be offensive. Zoeller apologized and Woods' camp let him dangle in a typical media lynching. It wasn't until after Zoeller's sponsor's had dumped him and his career was ruined that Woods accepted his apology."

This thread has become too negative and, IMO, way too unproductive to meaningful discussion.

Why can't those of you that don't like Tiger just say: "For a number of reasons I simply don't like Tiger or his game?"

Peace,

John Fryer

 

[Icebear]

This thread has become too negative and, IMO, way too unproductive to meaningful discussion.

Why can't those of you that don't like Tiger just say: "For a number of reasons I simply don't like Tiger or his game?"

Peace,

John Fryer

Most did until they were criticized for doing that.

 

[pinotbear]

This thread has become too negative and, IMO, way too unproductive to meaningful discussion.

Why can't those of you that don't like Tiger just say: "For a number of reasons I simply don't like Tiger or his game?"

Peace,

John Fryer

Actually, John, this has been one of the more interesting threads I can recall, from the standpoint of human perception/behavior.

It is remarkable to me how polarizing it's been. I've found it peculiar that folks defending Tiger have brought off-course aspects of the man into the fray, and folks (like me) who've been critical have focused on on-course aspects. I'd have thought it would be the other way around.

I don't believe I've seen a criitcal word regarding Tiger's play on Sunday, nor about his tournament record as a golfer: if he's not the greatest ever to play the game, he's seriously in the conversation.

Again, I find fascinating how some folks seem to be able to seperate that from other aspects of the man, and how some seemingly can't. It seems, for some, Tiger's performance completely defines him, rendering everything else relatively trivial. It seems that trumps any criticism of any aspect of his life, on the course or off of it. Extraordinary brilliance winning tourneys and hitting shots is all that matters.

I find it kinda sad when anybody is so defined by their job.

 

[Alydar]

Both sides formed their opinions based on preconceived attitudes and then built a reality that fits that perception. The PGA is and has been riddled by cheating husbands, alcoholism and prima donna attitudes but the media ignores 98% of it. Fuzzy can appear on national TV drunk with a glass of booze in his hand and some find him a lovable scamp while others see a racist drunk who needs rehab. And like politics, nothing much will change any minds.

As far as golf, I got sick of watching every shot Greg Norman took during his career, whether or not he was in contention. As far as Tv was concerned it was the Norman show whether he was leading or 15 shots back. TV loved Greg and we were force-fed him every week and I started to hate him. Never met him, had nothing to base my feelings on, but still I loved watching him choke in the Masters only because I hated the way the talking heads kissed his butt. Obviously a character flaw on my part. When Tiger came along I realized I had to choose between being a fan or spending the next 25 years with the same feelings I had about Norman. I chose to be a fan and have been rewarded. I don't know Tiger, never met him and have nothing on which to base my feelings. But it's a lot better cheering unbelievably great shots than turning off the TV in disgust because of them.

 

[VAUConnFan]

However his (perceived ?) arrogance, his often boorish on course behavior, the fact that he's black, and more than a little schadenfreude and you have a recipe for dislike from a lot of fans. Personally, I was a fan of Woods until his behavior in the Fuzzy Zoeller affair convinced me that he's not deserving of my respect.

The Fuzzy Zoeller incident occurred after Tiger won his first green jacket, so my memory is extremely vague, but I thought he took the high road and let it blow over.

 

[Alydar]

The Fuzzy Zoeller incident occurred after Tiger won his first green jacket, so my memory is extremely vague, but I thought he took the high road and let it blow over.

That's my recollection also.

 

[vtcwbuff]

The Fuzzy Zoeller incident occurred after Tiger won his first green jacket, so my memory is extremely vague, but I thought he took the high road and let it blow over.

I think a lot of people remember it that way but in reality Woods ( I believe at Earl's insistence) allowed the press to skewer Zoeller for weeks even though Zoeller apologized almost immediately. Woods did not accept his apology until well after the irrepairable damage had been done. IMO that was the low road and it was deliberate.

 

[Alydar]

"allowed the press to skewer Zoeller for weeks" ?????? Since when did the press lay off because someone asked them to? Did the press stop skewering Tiger after he apologized to his ex? Should we condemn his ex because she didn't issue a public acceptance of his apology? And what exactly is your opinion of Zoeller? Is he a better person than Tiger? How did his comment change your opinion of him? Is drunkeness an excuse for racist comments? My problem with Fuzzy then was that he ignored the 50% of Tiger's DNA that was oriental and labelled him entirely on the color of his skin. If he asked if Tiger was serving Thai food it would have been funny.

 

[Fishy]

A half in the bag Zoeller said something stupid and insensitive that was intended to be a joke. It was never intended to be offensive. Zoeller apologized and Woods' camp let him dangle in a typical media lynching. It wasn't until after Zoeller's sponsor's had dumped him and his career was ruined that Woods accepted his apology.

I'm not sure it's Woods' job to cover for Zoellers' drunken racist jokes nor to bail him out when he happens to perform them in front of a television camera. What an odd tack to take.

If someone runs over your dog, how long do you stay mad at the dog?

 

[mauconnfan]

Actually, John, this has been one of the more interesting threads I can recall, from the standpoint of human perception/behavior.

It is remarkable to me how polarizing it's been. I've found it peculiar that folks defending Tiger have brought off-course aspects of the man into the fray, and folks (like me) who've been critical have focused on on-course aspects. I'd have thought it would be the other way around.

I don't believe I've seen a criitcal word regarding Tiger's play on Sunday, nor about his tournament record as a golfer: if he's not the greatest ever to play the game, he's seriously in the conversation.

Again, I find fascinating how some folks seem to be able to seperate that from other aspects of the man, and how some seemingly can't. It seems, for some, Tiger's performance completely defines him, rendering everything else relatively trivial. It seems that trumps any criticism of any aspect of his life, on the course or off of it. Extraordinary brilliance winning tourneys and hitting shots is all that matters.

I find it kinda sad when anybody is so defined by their job.

Take your meds and then remind me what else should define Tiger for the general golf fan? He plays golf real well, hits hots that us amateurs can only dream of. Explain to me what's so hard to understand you either like him because he's a great golfer or hate him for the same reasons? Unless of course you bring in the off course behavior which is so trivial to some?

 

[pinotbear]

Read the thread, Mau. There's many post about on-course aspects of Tiger's golf career that give some of us pause for thought. If you've read it, and still want me to explain "what's so hard to understand", then, you're not capable of understanding it.

 

[arty155]

...It is remarkable to me how polarizing it's been...

-I know, I know, geez I've felt the same way all week. Something's not right, guys. Its just not like us...
- Hey! Now wait just a minute! You know, come to think of it, maybe there is one thing about this we can all agree on...
- I mean, lets face it, since there is nobody on this board called "The Penguin", its got to be that icebear"Icebear" who's been polarizing us, right?
- Oh well, there's really nothing we can do now - not since he got that big rock. Hey, see you guys here on the board next week!



Peace, through fire superiority,
Arty

 

[mauconnfan]

Read the thread, Mau. There's many post about on-course aspects of Tiger's golf career that give some of us pause for thought. If you've read it, and still want me to explain "what's so hard to understand", then, you're not capable of understanding it.

I've read the thread and understand it pinot - he's not a "gentleman" on the course because of a few F-bombs and a toss or 2 of the club. Laughable at best........I'm guessing that 70-80% of the viewers who are weekend golfers appreciate seeing that from a golfer rather than the gentleman you expect him and others to be. Passion to be your best is not a bad thing and when things get in your way you react, pretty simple. The focus on his reactions seems to take away from the so many players out there who get whacked out on the course, fbombs, helicoptered clubs etc but we need to remember he's always in view of the camera, the others aren't. Are all of Phils fans (who ar also more than likely Tiger haters) okay with him pulling out after a 79 at Jack's tourney?? It's already forgotten because Phil is such a gentleman....funny how many of his fellow playing partners called him the worst guy to play with years ago? Hmmmm........

This thread is all opinion and one I find quite interesting so we can't take anyone serious on it. I get the people who dislike Tiger, his fault no doubt in many ways. But I'm not sure anyone can relate to his life at all, nor Phils for that matter so who's thoughts are accurate? All good.................