OT: TIGER

[Bestiarius]

He hung in there. If his putting is good, he's the guy to beat.

His putz is the problem.

 

[Alydar]

I considerate Tiger one of the best clutch performers in any sport. I enjoy watching great athletes perform great under pressure. What they do when they leave for the day doesn't concern me.

 

[DaddyChoc]

Yeah, never been a fan of his either. Jordan, Tiger, and (Barkley) were all buds. Jordan did't get caught or was exposed for the many sins as Tiger. I'm not holier than though or naive enough to think most male athletes have many women on the side. I've just never been a fan of Tiger's, on or off the golf course.

just say that then... stop using who he banged to further your dislike

 

[cardfan]

just say that then... stop using who he banged to further your dislike

who he "banged" and then lied about it, ADDED to my dislike of him.

 

[DaddyChoc]

who he "banged" and then lied about it, ADDED to my dislike of him.

added... geesh, you only disliked him a "little bit" before his sexcapades were exposed?

ok I understand

 

[speedoo]

I considerate Tiger one of the best clutch performers in any sport. I enjoy watching great athletes perform great under pressure. What they do when they leave for the day doesn't concern me.

But what about his performance when playing Team Golf for his country? Last time I checked, he was pretty mediocre, not clutch at all.. And for me that means a lot, and it's one of the reasons I dislike him so much.

 

[cardfan]

added... geesh, you only disliked him a "little bit" before his sexcapades were exposed?

ok I understand

those are your words, not mine.

 

[DaddyChoc]

those are your words, not mine.

what are yours... since you want to play word games.

if you dont care (dislike, or whatever YOUR words are) for Tiger why even comment in this thread. This was a "feel good" thread about what he did on SUNDAY not what he did over the past 5yrs.

go ahead, you have the last word (yours)

 

[Icebear]

There was no indication that this was a feel good thread. It started with !!!!???? nothing indicating a feel good thread in that.

Tiger's behavior was inexcusable once it was clear he was nothing more than a common philanderer. There is no need for anyone to celebrate him for that and, yes, it does affect his marketability. I know that I for one have gone out of my way to avoid products he is affiliated. I was a huge Tiger fan, no more because he is not the type of example our kids need as a husband/spouse. Clearly, great athletic gifts do not directly make for great moral character but no one is obligated to support those who make neither the effort to live with character or battle to regain it when they have fallen.

Before the usual disclaimers of athletes as roles models begin please remember that Tiger made every effort to market himself as an example and role model. His father even stated Tiger's impact would someday extend far beyond golf. It is that marketability that was tainted in the scandal.

 

[Wbbfan1]

Whether anyone likes it or not Tiger is great for the game of Golf. I suspect there was a 50% difference in the TV Ratings since Tiger was in contention and eventually won the Memorial. As Tiger goes, so does Golf. Tiger brings in the average sports fan that normally could care less about watching Golf.

If Tiger is back, the Corporate Sponsors will also come back begging him to endorse their products. Won't be as many or for the same amount of dollars but they will want Tiger. He has a chance to repair his image, not to everyone, but enough that the sponsors will recognize the value he brings.

 

[easttexastrash]

Whether anyone likes it or not Tiger is great for the game of Golf. I suspect there was a 50% difference in the TV Ratings since Tiger was in contention and eventually won the Memorial. As Tiger goes, so does Golf. Tiger brings in the average sports fan that normally could care less about watching Golf.

If Tiger is back, the Corporate Sponsors will also come back begging him to endorse their products. Won't be as many or for the same amount of dollars but they will want Tiger. He has a chance to repair his image, not to everyone, but enough that the sponsors will recognize the value he brings.

Nice post.

 

[John Fryer]

But what about his performance when playing Team Golf for his country? Last time I checked, he was pretty mediocre, not clutch at all.. And for me that means a lot, and it's one of the reasons I dislike him so much.

The US fields a team every two years to play against Europe or Australia.

So you are saying that you really, really dislike Tiger because he has been, in your opinion since you provide no data in support of your assertions, a "pretty mediocre" team performer.

You seem to ignore the fact that "pretty mediocre" for tiger is still better than most of the players on the US team.

You also seem willing to ignore the fact that when Tiger plays people will come out to watch him play. (Almost always in very, very large numbers.)

Oh, did I forget to mention Tiger's impact of tv viewership?

Peace,

John Fryer

 

[speedoo]

The US fields a team every two years to play against Europe or Australia.

So you are saying that you really, really dislike Tiger because he has been, in your opinion since you provide no data in support of your assertions, a "pretty mediocre" team performer.

You seem to ignore the fact that "pretty mediocre" for tiger is still better than most of the players on the US team.

You also seem willing to ignore the fact that when Tiger plays people will come out to watch him play. (Almost always in very, very large numbers.)

Oh, did I forget to mention Tiger's impact of tv viewership?

Peace,

John Fryer

You seem to be in awe of Tiger. It's nice that you are happy with him, but it does not change my opinion of him at all..

Right, I provided no data to support my "assertion". That's why I said "last time I checked". Maybe you ignored those words. In any case, it should be pretty clear that I don't care to watch him play. I did watch him fail to be a clutch player for his country enough times in the past to form my opinion. You don't like my opinion?. Enlighten me with some data, and maybe I will change it.. But I doubt you can come up with anything to show that he is anything more than a mediocre player when it comes to performing for his country. You don't like mediocre? Fine, change the word to average.

And "still better than most of the players on his team", huh? You have any data to back up that assertion? Still, "better than most" is a pretty low bar for someone who is supposed to be the best golfer in the world, according to some.. He's supposed to be the best golfer in the world, so I would expect him to be the best in playing for his country. But he does not measure up to that, and that matters to me, matters a lot.

I don't care about the rest of your post because it does not relate to what I was talking about, which is whether or not he is a "clutch" player when it comes to playing for his country.

 

[DaddyChoc]

There was no indication that this was a feel good thread. It started with !!!!???? nothing indicating a feel good thread in that.

Tiger's behavior was inexcusable once it was clear he was nothing more than a common philanderer. There is no need for anyone to celebrate him for that and, yes, it does affect his marketability. I know that I for one have gone out of my way to avoid products he is affiliated. I was a huge Tiger fan, no more because he is not the type of example our kids need as a husband/spouse. Clearly, great athletic gifts do not directly make for great moral character but no one is obligated to support those who make neither the effort to live with character or battle to regain it when they have fallen.

Before the usual disclaimers of athletes as roles models begin please remember that Tiger made every effort to market himself as an example and role model. His father even stated Tiger's impact would someday extend far beyond golf. It is that marketability that was tainted in the scandal.

the timing of this thread had all indications that it was about what Tiger was doing yesterday... this wasn't started to talk about his failed marriage, another woman that came forward or a sponsor that dropped him.

Come on Ice you're smarter than that.

 

[Alydar]

But what about his performance when playing Team Golf for his country? Last time I checked, he was pretty mediocre, not clutch at all.. And for me that means a lot, and it's one of the reasons I dislike him so much.

Are you suggesting he plays mediocre golf on purpose? If not then you must really hate every other player because they all play much worse than Tiger overall. For all the mediocre golf Mickelson has played in his career he must be positively despised. Dropping out of a tournament because he is "mentally tired" must really get your goat. I remember Curtis Strange choking horribly in the Ryder Cup. Is he also to be hated ?

 

[speedoo]

Are you suggesting he plays mediocre golf on purpose? If not then you must really hate every other player because they all play much worse than Tiger overall. For all the mediocre golf Mickelson has played in his career he must be positively despised. Dropping out of a tournament because he is "mentally tired" must really get your goat. I remember Curtis Strange choking horribly in the Ryder Cup. Is he also to be hated ?

I am suggesting that he is not a "clutch" player (your word) when he plays for his country. If you want to provide any data to dispute that, I am all ears. But I believe it is fairly well established that Tiger's performance in playing for his country is nowhere close to his performance in playing for himself, on the tour. Why that is, I have no idea, but it is certainly something that contributes to my very negative opinion of him.

It's interesting that you are trying to defend him by pointing out the failures of Strange and Mickelson, yet you do not cite truly clutch performances by any number of European golfers as they regularly defeat USA Ryder Cup teams.

 

[Icebear]

the timing of this thread had all indications that it was about what Tiger was doing yesterday... this wasn't started to talk about his failed marriage, another woman that came forward or a sponsor that dropped him.

Come on Ice you're smarter than that.

It might not have been about his failed marriage but there was no indiction it was meant to be a love fest. You are smarter than that. !!!!???? As far as I can tell that may be the equivalent of WTF.

 

[boontonbomber]

Whether anyone likes it or not Tiger is great for the game of Golf. I suspect there was a 50% difference in the TV Ratings since Tiger was in contention and eventually won the Memorial. As Tiger goes, so does Golf. Tiger brings in the average sports fan that normally could care less about watching Golf.

If Tiger is back, the Corporate Sponsors will also come back begging him to endorse their products. Won't be as many or for the same amount of dollars but they will want Tiger. He has a chance to repair his image, not to everyone, but enough that the sponsors will recognize the value he brings.

tiger woods is great for tv golf, not for the game of golf. his on-the-course attitude has shown a lack of respect for the game, the traditions of the game, and the fans.

 

[Alydar]

I am suggesting that he is not a "clutch" player (your word) when he plays for his country. If you want to provide any data to dispute that, I am all ears. But I believe it is fairly well established that Tiger's performance in playing for his country is nowhere close to his performance in playing for himself, on the tour. Why that is, I have no idea, but it is certainly something that contributes to my very negative opinion of him.

It's interesting that you are trying to defend him by pointing out the failures of Strange and Mickelson, yet you do not cite truly clutch performances by any number of European golfers as they regularly defeat USA Ryder Cup teams.

Tiger doesn't need defending. His record in Ryder Cup singles matches, the only ones that measure his performance and his alone, is 4 wins, one loss and one tie. Now it's time for you to back up your claim that he plays mediocre golf in these matches. So far you have nothing to back up your statement. What numbers are you basing your claim on? And leave best ball and 4 ball matches out of it.

 

[Alydar]

tiger woods is great for tv golf, not for the game of golf. his on-the-course attitude has shown a lack of respect for the game, the traditions of the game, and the fans.

I saw Phil toss a club on Friday and the announcers had nothing to say. Why is it that only Tiger is put under the microscope? I've watched many supposedly "well mannered" pros lose their tempers, yell at the crowd, swear at the top of their lungs, and toss clubs. I'm talking Lee Trevino, Davis Love, Gary McCord and Greg Norman. Tiger's popularity means that every shot he takes is recorded and critiqued. Arnie was one of the worst hot-heads on tour. Ben crenshaw chain-smoked his entire career but TV never talked about the negative example he set for children in doing so. Stop making a separate standard of behavior for Tiger. He has been a gentleman on the course since he got there. Try going to the GHO and watch the young prima donnas for a few holes when their aren't playing their best. You will have your eyes opened.

 

[vtcwbuff]

Woods' record at the Ryder Cup is not very good. You ignore the fact that the Ryder Cup is a team competition. While Woods has played OK in singles, his overall record
in Ryder Cup competition is a losing one. He is 13-14-2 and ranks somewhere around 25th all time. Also remember that Woods was one (and the most notable) of the American golfers that floated a no pay, no play idea a few years ago. There was so much blowback from that folly that the idea quickly faded.

 

[Alydar]

Woods' record at the Ryder Cup is not very good. You ignore the fact that the Ryder Cup is a team competition. While Woods has played OK in singles, his overall record
in Ryder Cup competition is a losing one. He is 13-14-2 and ranks somewhere around 25th all time. Also remember that Woods was one (and the most notable) of the American golfers that floated a no pay, no play idea a few years ago. There was so much blowback from that folly that the idea quickly faded.

Those all-time records include the time when it was US vs. England. All those matches were American blowouts. It didn't turn into US vs Europe until shortly before Tiger turned pro and so all those all-time stats are meaningless. The entire US team has never played well in 4 ball or best ball matches. If you had seen Tiger winn 3 straight US amateur titles you would know that he is one of the best match play competitors ever.

 

[speedoo]

Tiger doesn't need defending. His record in Ryder Cup singles matches, the only ones that measure his performance and his alone, is 4 wins, one loss and one tie. Now it's time for you to back up your claim that he plays mediocre golf in these matches. So far you have nothing to back up your statement. What numbers are you basing your claim on? And leave best ball and 4 ball matches out of it.

Oh I see. So he is "clutch" in singles matches, but his partners suck whenever he is playing with others, which is most of the time, in Ryder Cup golf.

Whatever you say. But his overall Ryder Cup record is 13-14-2. And that overall record is mediocre because his USA playing partners always suck. Now I understand.

 

[pinotbear]

I saw Phil toss a club on Friday and the announcers had nothing to say. Why is it that only Tiger is put under the microscope? I've watched many supposedly "well mannered" pros lose their tempers, yell at the crowd, swear at the top of their lungs, and toss clubs. I'm talking Lee Trevino, Davis Love, Gary McCord and Greg Norman. Tiger's popularity means that every shot he takes is recorded and critiqued. Arnie was one of the worst hot-heads on tour. Ben crenshaw chain-smoked his entire career but TV never talked about the negative example he set for children in doing so. Stop making a separate standard of behavior for Tiger. He has been a gentleman on the course since he got there. Try going to the GHO and watch the young prima donnas for a few holes when their aren't playing their best. You will have your eyes opened.

Tiger Woods has been many things, including one of the very best to ever play the game, but he has NOT been "a gentleman on the course since he got there".

 

[Alydar]

Oh I see. So he is "clutch" in singles matches, but his partners suck whenever he is playing with others, which is most of the time, in Ryder Cup golf.

Whatever you say. But his overall Ryder Cup record is 13-14-2. And that overall record is mediocre because his USA playing partners always suck. Now I understand.

I would guess that the entire American record during the Tiger years is worse than his personal record. The US has lost more than they have won. He is 4-1-1 in singles and he is 9-13-1 in 2 man matches. Is it too much to think that his partners had a little to do with it?

You must have a long list of players you dislike for their Ryder Cup records. Would you name some more that have earned your dislike for the same reason? There are boatload of them so don't be shy. My suspision is that you just don't like Tiger (for whatever reason) and this is just a convienient reason.

 

[Alydar]

Tiger Woods has been many things, including one of the very best to ever play the game, but he has NOT been "a gentleman on the course since he got there".

Please enlighten me. I listed names of players that I have personally witnessed acting like jerks on the course. I'd like to know what Tiger has done in the last 13 or so years that is worse?

 

[pinotbear]

Please enlighten me. I listed names of players that I have personally witnessed acting like jerks on the course. I'd like to know what Tiger has done in the last 13 or so years that is worse?

You aren't responding to what I posted. I'm not saying that everybody else is a saint. I'm responding to what you said: that Tiger Woods has been a gentleman on the course since he got there. He has not.

 

[Alydar]

You aren't responding to what I posted. I'm not saying that everybody else is a saint. I'm responding to what you said: that Tiger Woods has been a gentleman on the course since he got there. He has not.

So explain. What has he done that isn't common among the rest of the pros? He threw a club on the ground? That's so common it's ridiculous. He gets annoyed at cameras? Well Phil quit if a huff after he got "clicked". Or are you just one of those that thinks Phil's fist pumps show his competitive spirit while Tiger's make hime look angry and aggresssive?

For all the critical comments the media has made about his private life, I can't remember one comment that he is anything but a gentleman on the course. If you have any evidence suggesting otherwise I'd love to read it.

 

[pinotbear]

Again, you are not responding to my point. You seem to be saying "everybody does it": that's the argument of a fifth grader. I am focusing on your statement about Tiger being "anything but a gentleman on the course", period.

Throwing clubs and dropping F-bombs on the course does not make you a gentleman. I've followed golf for all of Tiger's career, and many years before: there are multiple instances of his behaving in this fashion.

 

[vtcwbuff]

So explain. What has he done that isn't common among the rest of the pros? He threw a club on the ground? That's so common it's ridiculous. He gets annoyed at cameras? Well Phil quit if a huff after he got "clicked". Or are you just one of those that thinks Phil's fist pumps show his competitive spirit while Tiger's make hime look angry and aggresssive?

For all the critical comments the media has made about his private life, I can't remember one comment that he is anything but a gentleman on the course. If you have any evidence suggesting otherwise I'd love to read it.

If he's such a gentleman why is he reportedly always at the top of the most fined list? I've been a golfer and a fan for many years and I've seen some jerk behavior from several players but I can't remember anyone else hocking up a lunger and leaving it on the green for other players to roll their ball through.