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OT: TIGER

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vtcwbuff said:
If he's such a gentleman why is he reportedly always at the top of the most fined list? I've been a golfer and a fan for many years and I've seen some jerk behavior from several players but I can't remember anyone else hocking up a lunger and leaving it on the green for other players to roll their ball through.
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Sorry but could you post some links to these events?
 
pinotbear said:
Again, you are not responding to my point. You seem to be saying "everybody does it": that's the argument of a fifth grader. I am focusing on your statement about Tiger being "anything but a gentleman on the course", period.

Throwing clubs and dropping F-bombs on the course does not make you a gentleman. I've followed golf for all of Tiger's career, and many years before: there are multiple instances of his behaving in this fashion.
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Everybody does it is the last resort of people defending indefensible behavior. One wouldn't of shouldn't accept that from one's kids and have no need to accept it from someone who is making millions to stand up in front of people.
 
pinotbear said:
Tiger Woods has been many things, including one of the very best to ever play the game, but he has NOT been "a gentleman on the course since he got there".
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Correct. Tiger is anything but a gentleman much of the time. His petulant behavior, cursing, and club throwing got old a long time ago.
 
Alydar said:
Sorry but could you post some links to these events?
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Tiger was fined for his conduct at Dubai for spitting on the green. Google it. Lots of video on youtube. The announcers refer to his conduct as "arrogant and petulant", and comment about how disgusting it is for him to leave a big wad of spit on the green for someone to have to putt through.

Not the only time.
 
All I'm saying is that if you put a camera on every player on tour 24/7 you would find Tiger is no saint but that saints are a rare breed. If not liking a player on tour is based on his level of gentlemanlyness then that person must either "dislike" a long list of tour players or else come up with a better reason to not like Tiger.
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Like I said before, I watch golf to see spectacular play and Tiger makes spectacular shots. Golf fans should be thankful that we get to watch him play in our lifetimes instead of spending our time judging his lifestyle.
 
stamfordhusky said:
Correct. Tiger is anything but a gentleman much of the time. His petulant behavior, cursing, and club throwing got old a long time ago.
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again, you make a charge but provide no evidence. (link to article or table or some source of these charges). I watch just about every hole he plays that is on TV and I don't recall him doing all of these things. Cursing? Grow up. I don't understand what "petulant" means. Club throw (not throwing, like he does it all the time) Phil slammed a club on the ground in a violent manner on Thusday yet not a discouraging word about it from the media. IMO Tiger is held to a standard that no one else could meet or is asked to meet.
If asked how you feel about Pavoratti would you talk of his genius or just say he was fat?
 
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Oh dear; I'm really, really sorry I started this thread. The vitriol has been astonishing in a very sad manner. Next time, I'll do my best to avoid the opportunity for such nastiness.:(:(:(
 
stamfordhusky said:
Tiger was fined for his conduct at Dubai for spitting on the green. Google it. Lots of video on youtube. The announcers refer to his conduct as "arrogant and petulant", and comment about how disgusting it is for him to leave a big wad of spit on the green for someone to have to putt through.

Not the only time.
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Yeah, I bet they never invite him back. LOL
 
Alydar said:
again, you make a charge but provide no evidence. (link to article or table or some source of these charges). I watch just about every hole he plays that is on TV and I don't recall him doing all of these things. Cursing? Grow up. I don't understand what "petulant" means. Club throw (not throwing, like he does it all the time) If asked how you feel about Pavoratti (sic) would you talk of his genius or just say he was fat?
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I provided a link to Feinstein's article and also pointed out you could see the spitting incident on Youtube. It appears you don't want evidence. If you do some basic googling, you can find ten pages of evidence in a couple of minutes.

And you clearly haven't watched a lot of Tiger if you haven't seen incidents of spoiled-rotten behavior. I have seen dozens - including five or six at events I attended in person. As for petulant, use a dictionary. (You may find Tiger's picture beside the definition.) And as for Pavarotti, if he acted in the same unacceptable way as Tiger, I'd have the same comments. Your analogy, however, is deeply flawed - uncivil behavior is completely different than physical appearance.

Another comment from Feinstein about Tiger's unacceptable behavior:

"This time it isn’t an f-bomb or a thrown club or his vigilante caddie. This time he was clearly caught on-camera spitting on the 12th green on Sunday in Dubai.

Honestly though, the real issue here isn’t that Woods did what he did. It was wrong and the European Tour was completely justified in fining him for his regression to behavior that most of us know isn’t acceptable by about the age of five. Of course that brings up the real problem: No one has ever really explained to Woods that there are certain things you don’t do on a golf course."

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/john-feinstein/not-fine-by-us/
 
cookie447 said:
Oh dear; I'm really, really sorry I started this thread. The vitriol has been astonishing in a very sad manner. Next time, I'll do my best to avoid the opportunity for such nastiness.:(:(:(
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The "vitriol" directed at Tiger is, sadly, all accurate. You could fill an entire book with incidents.
 
stamfordhusky said:
I provided a link to Feinstein's article and also pointed out you could see the spitting incident on Youtube. It appears you don't want evidence. If you do some basic googling, you can find ten pages of evidence in a couple of minutes.

And you clearly haven't watched a lot of Tiger if you haven't seen incidents of spoiled-rotten behavior. I have seen dozens - including five or six at events I attended in person. As for petulant, use a dictionary. (You may find Tiger's picture beside the definition.) And as for Pavarotti, if he acted in the same unacceptable way as Tiger, I'd have the same comments. Your analogy, however, is deeply flawed - uncivil behavior is completely different than physical appearance.

Another comment from Feinstein about Tiger's unacceptable behavior:

"This time it isn’t an f-bomb or a thrown club or his vigilante caddie. This time he was clearly caught on-camera spitting on the 12th green on Sunday in Dubai.

Honestly though, the real issue here isn’t that Woods did what he did. It was wrong and the European Tour was completely justified in fining him for his regression to behavior that most of us know isn’t acceptable by about the age of five. Of course that brings up the real problem: No one has ever really explained to Woods that there are certain things you don’t do on a golf course."

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/john-feinstein/not-fine-by-us/[/quote]


The sarcastic and condescending tone of Mr. Feinstein' s article says that his issues with Tiger Woods are not new. I'll need something better than one spitting incident, one club throw and a bag of F=Bombs over a 14 year career. Mr. Fienstein is bandering to the same element that found fault with Jackie Robinson while trying to make himself known by flinging mud. (JMO of course) You may draw your own conclusions.
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cookie447 said:
Oh dear; I'm really, really sorry I started this thread. The vitriol has been astonishing in a very sad manner. Next time, I'll do my best to avoid the opportunity for such nastiness.:(:(:(
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Not your fault and do not be sorry. Sometimes it gets nasty here. You wanted to start a thread extolling some fine golf play from one of the greatest of all time that included an all time great shot on the 16th Hole; BUT, the haters came out. You are new here so take heed to the subjects and to the people that draw the most ire. When venturing into those areas, just be well armed with facts and you will be fine.
 
cookie447 said:
Oh dear; I'm really, really sorry I started this thread. The vitriol has been astonishing in a very sad manner. Next time, I'll do my best to avoid the opportunity for such nastiness.:(:(:(
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what was your reason for starting the thread? just asking

its noted that you didnt make a comment but Im just curious as to why you started this thread on Sunday?
 
VAUConnFan said:
Not your fault and do not be sorry. Sometimes it gets nasty here. You wanted to start a thread extolling some fine golf play from one of the greatest of all time that included an all time great shot on the 16th Hole; BUT, the haters came out. You are new here so take heed to the subjects and to the people that draw the most ire. When venturing into those areas, just be well armed with facts and you will be fine.
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what shot on the 16th hole? that wasnt the reason for this thread. :rolleyes: (sarcasm button OFF)
 
cardfan said:
That's BS. They hired him because he won and he WAS a likeable athlete. Dood, people don't buy stuff from sponsors when their spokesperson lies, which is why he was dropped by many of them.
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Dude live his life and see ow holier than thou you would be......people make mistakes and move on.....none of us can know what his life was like from Dad on to his marriage. Is it a shame hell yeah? But the man can change and be forgiven except from those like you who never ever made any mistakes. Remember if you mae a mistake and compared it to Tiger, bring in the fact everyone on earth knows him, srcutinizes him and he has millions and millions to do anything hewants with. You have your opinion and that's fine. Funny thing is he certainly may be even more likeable now watch him on the course! But people like you wouldn't know becaus ethe blinders have been on since 20-09 because your so damn perfect!! Funny
 
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pinotbear said:
I do love a coherent, concise, grammatically well-presented argument.:rolleyes:
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He probably took your meds. :)

I'm having a problem wondering what all the fuss is about. I thought that the thread was a civil discussion (and disagreement) about a controversial athlete. Vitriol?
 
vtcwbuff said:
He probably took your meds. :)

I'm having a problem wondering what all the fuss is about. I thought that the thread was a civil discussion (and disagreement) about a controversial athlete. Vitriol?
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I thought it was about the 16th hole on Sunday
 
DaddyChoc said:
I thought it was about the 16th hole on Sunday
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Yes, ou thought that but it was far from clear and especially so if someone wasn't watching golf.
 
The only thing the US media loves more than a public downfall is redemption.

Everything Tiger does will be under a microscope because he is Tiger.

I think the media attention he received was unfair when you consider the fact that he didn't break the law. Yes, golf is a game of honor and honesty, and he betrayed those cardinal rules, and I am in no way excusing his behavior. However many other high-profile athletes have done far worse, harmed more people, and received FAR less scrutiny.

Hope the guy can beat Jack's record just because I hate the US media and his redemption would be a sour thing to handle for many that love seeing someone torn down.
 
Most in this thread seem to think that the animus re Woods stems from his private life. That may be true for those that don't follow the PGA but it's not the case with most golf fans.

Golf fans that dislike Woods do so for a number of reasons having nothing to do with his screwing around on his wife. I frequent several golf forums and my guess is that when the story broke, envy was probably the #1 response.

Tiger Woods is really, really good. He has been more than good for the PGA. With Woods in contention the ratings for this year's Memorial were nearly triple what they were last year. I love to watch him when he's on his game.

However his (perceived ?) arrogance, his often boorish on course behavior, the fact that he's black, and more than a little schadenfreude and you have a recipe for dislike from a lot of fans. Personally, I was a fan of Woods until his behavior in the Fuzzy Zoeller affair convinced me that he's not deserving of my respect.
 
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vtcwbuff said:
Golf fans that dislike Woods do so for a number of reasons having nothing to do with his screwing around on his wife. I frequent several golf forums and my guess is that when the story broke, envy was probably the #1 response.


However his (perceived ?) arrogance, his often boorish on course behavior, the fact that he's black, and more than a little schadenfreude and you have a recipe for dislike from a lot of fans.
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good points
 
vtcwbuff said:
However his (perceived ?) arrogance, his often boorish on course behavior, the fact that he's black, and more than a little schadenfreude and you have a recipe for dislike from a lot of fans. Personally, I was a fan of Woods until his behavior in the Fuzzy Zoeller affair convinced me that he's not deserving of my respect.
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Zoeller makes a fried chicken and collard greens joke about Tiger Woods and you had a problem with Woods' behavior? That's bat s*** crazy.

I thought Woods handled it very, very well - there was an ugly edge to Zoeller's 'joke' and the manner with which it was delivered. Woods accepted his apology, albeit seemingly with some reservations.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_n3_v92/ai_19491808/
 
Fishy said:
Zoeller makes a fried chicken and collard greens joke about Tiger Woods and you had a problem with Woods' behavior? That's bat s*** crazy.

I thought Woods handled it very, very well - there was an ugly edge to Zoeller's 'joke' and the manner with which it was delivered. Woods accepted his apology, albeit seemingly with some reservations.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_n3_v92/ai_19491808/[/quote]
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A half in the bag Zoeller said something stupid and insensitive that was intended to be a joke. It was never intended to be offensive. Zoeller apologized and Woods' camp let him dangle in a typical media lynching. It wasn't until after Zoeller's sponsor's had dumped him and his career was ruined that Woods accepted his apology.

Larry Elder has it right in this article following the Shaq comments about Yao Ming. Read the article and then decide who's bat shit crazy.
 
vtcwbuff said:
A half in the bag Zoeller said something stupid and insensitive that was intended to be a joke. It was never intended to be offensive. Zoeller apologized and Woods' camp let him dangle in a typical media lynching. It wasn't until after Zoeller's sponsor's had dumped him and his career was ruined that Woods accepted his apology."
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This thread has become too negative and, IMO, way too unproductive to meaningful discussion.

Why can't those of you that don't like Tiger just say: "For a number of reasons I simply don't like Tiger or his game?"

Peace,

John Fryer
 
John Fryer said:
This thread has become too negative and, IMO, way too unproductive to meaningful discussion.

Why can't those of you that don't like Tiger just say: "For a number of reasons I simply don't like Tiger or his game?"

Peace,

John Fryer
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Most did until they were criticized for doing that.
 
John Fryer said:
This thread has become too negative and, IMO, way too unproductive to meaningful discussion.

Why can't those of you that don't like Tiger just say: "For a number of reasons I simply don't like Tiger or his game?"

Peace,

John Fryer
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Actually, John, this has been one of the more interesting threads I can recall, from the standpoint of human perception/behavior.

It is remarkable to me how polarizing it's been. I've found it peculiar that folks defending Tiger have brought off-course aspects of the man into the fray, and folks (like me) who've been critical have focused on on-course aspects. I'd have thought it would be the other way around.

I don't believe I've seen a criitcal word regarding Tiger's play on Sunday, nor about his tournament record as a golfer: if he's not the greatest ever to play the game, he's seriously in the conversation.

Again, I find fascinating how some folks seem to be able to seperate that from other aspects of the man, and how some seemingly can't. It seems, for some, Tiger's performance completely defines him, rendering everything else relatively trivial. It seems that trumps any criticism of any aspect of his life, on the course or off of it. Extraordinary brilliance winning tourneys and hitting shots is all that matters.

I find it kinda sad when anybody is so defined by their job.
 
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