OT: TIGER

[vtcwbuff]

Woods' record at the Ryder Cup is not very good. You ignore the fact that the Ryder Cup is a team competition. While Woods has played OK in singles, his overall record
in Ryder Cup competition is a losing one. He is 13-14-2 and ranks somewhere around 25th all time. Also remember that Woods was one (and the most notable) of the American golfers that floated a no pay, no play idea a few years ago. There was so much blowback from that folly that the idea quickly faded.

 

[Alydar]

Woods' record at the Ryder Cup is not very good. You ignore the fact that the Ryder Cup is a team competition. While Woods has played OK in singles, his overall record
in Ryder Cup competition is a losing one. He is 13-14-2 and ranks somewhere around 25th all time. Also remember that Woods was one (and the most notable) of the American golfers that floated a no pay, no play idea a few years ago. There was so much blowback from that folly that the idea quickly faded.

Those all-time records include the time when it was US vs. England. All those matches were American blowouts. It didn't turn into US vs Europe until shortly before Tiger turned pro and so all those all-time stats are meaningless. The entire US team has never played well in 4 ball or best ball matches. If you had seen Tiger winn 3 straight US amateur titles you would know that he is one of the best match play competitors ever.

 

[speedoo]

Tiger doesn't need defending. His record in Ryder Cup singles matches, the only ones that measure his performance and his alone, is 4 wins, one loss and one tie. Now it's time for you to back up your claim that he plays mediocre golf in these matches. So far you have nothing to back up your statement. What numbers are you basing your claim on? And leave best ball and 4 ball matches out of it.

Oh I see. So he is "clutch" in singles matches, but his partners suck whenever he is playing with others, which is most of the time, in Ryder Cup golf.

Whatever you say. But his overall Ryder Cup record is 13-14-2. And that overall record is mediocre because his USA playing partners always suck. Now I understand.

 

[pinotbear]

I saw Phil toss a club on Friday and the announcers had nothing to say. Why is it that only Tiger is put under the microscope? I've watched many supposedly "well mannered" pros lose their tempers, yell at the crowd, swear at the top of their lungs, and toss clubs. I'm talking Lee Trevino, Davis Love, Gary McCord and Greg Norman. Tiger's popularity means that every shot he takes is recorded and critiqued. Arnie was one of the worst hot-heads on tour. Ben crenshaw chain-smoked his entire career but TV never talked about the negative example he set for children in doing so. Stop making a separate standard of behavior for Tiger. He has been a gentleman on the course since he got there. Try going to the GHO and watch the young prima donnas for a few holes when their aren't playing their best. You will have your eyes opened.

Tiger Woods has been many things, including one of the very best to ever play the game, but he has NOT been "a gentleman on the course since he got there".

 

[Alydar]

Oh I see. So he is "clutch" in singles matches, but his partners suck whenever he is playing with others, which is most of the time, in Ryder Cup golf.

Whatever you say. But his overall Ryder Cup record is 13-14-2. And that overall record is mediocre because his USA playing partners always suck. Now I understand.

I would guess that the entire American record during the Tiger years is worse than his personal record. The US has lost more than they have won. He is 4-1-1 in singles and he is 9-13-1 in 2 man matches. Is it too much to think that his partners had a little to do with it?

You must have a long list of players you dislike for their Ryder Cup records. Would you name some more that have earned your dislike for the same reason? There are boatload of them so don't be shy. My suspision is that you just don't like Tiger (for whatever reason) and this is just a convienient reason.

 

[Alydar]

Tiger Woods has been many things, including one of the very best to ever play the game, but he has NOT been "a gentleman on the course since he got there".

Please enlighten me. I listed names of players that I have personally witnessed acting like jerks on the course. I'd like to know what Tiger has done in the last 13 or so years that is worse?

 

[pinotbear]

Please enlighten me. I listed names of players that I have personally witnessed acting like jerks on the course. I'd like to know what Tiger has done in the last 13 or so years that is worse?

You aren't responding to what I posted. I'm not saying that everybody else is a saint. I'm responding to what you said: that Tiger Woods has been a gentleman on the course since he got there. He has not.

 

[Alydar]

You aren't responding to what I posted. I'm not saying that everybody else is a saint. I'm responding to what you said: that Tiger Woods has been a gentleman on the course since he got there. He has not.

So explain. What has he done that isn't common among the rest of the pros? He threw a club on the ground? That's so common it's ridiculous. He gets annoyed at cameras? Well Phil quit if a huff after he got "clicked". Or are you just one of those that thinks Phil's fist pumps show his competitive spirit while Tiger's make hime look angry and aggresssive?

For all the critical comments the media has made about his private life, I can't remember one comment that he is anything but a gentleman on the course. If you have any evidence suggesting otherwise I'd love to read it.

 

[pinotbear]

Again, you are not responding to my point. You seem to be saying "everybody does it": that's the argument of a fifth grader. I am focusing on your statement about Tiger being "anything but a gentleman on the course", period.

Throwing clubs and dropping F-bombs on the course does not make you a gentleman. I've followed golf for all of Tiger's career, and many years before: there are multiple instances of his behaving in this fashion.

 

[vtcwbuff]

So explain. What has he done that isn't common among the rest of the pros? He threw a club on the ground? That's so common it's ridiculous. He gets annoyed at cameras? Well Phil quit if a huff after he got "clicked". Or are you just one of those that thinks Phil's fist pumps show his competitive spirit while Tiger's make hime look angry and aggresssive?

For all the critical comments the media has made about his private life, I can't remember one comment that he is anything but a gentleman on the course. If you have any evidence suggesting otherwise I'd love to read it.

If he's such a gentleman why is he reportedly always at the top of the most fined list? I've been a golfer and a fan for many years and I've seen some jerk behavior from several players but I can't remember anyone else hocking up a lunger and leaving it on the green for other players to roll their ball through.

 

[Alydar]

If he's such a gentleman why is he reportedly always at the top of the most fined list? I've been a golfer and a fan for many years and I've seen some jerk behavior from several players but I can't remember anyone else hocking up a lunger and leaving it on the green for other players to roll their ball through.

Sorry but could you post some links to these events?

 

[Icebear]

Again, you are not responding to my point. You seem to be saying "everybody does it": that's the argument of a fifth grader. I am focusing on your statement about Tiger being "anything but a gentleman on the course", period.

Throwing clubs and dropping F-bombs on the course does not make you a gentleman. I've followed golf for all of Tiger's career, and many years before: there are multiple instances of his behaving in this fashion.

Everybody does it is the last resort of people defending indefensible behavior. One wouldn't of shouldn't accept that from one's kids and have no need to accept it from someone who is making millions to stand up in front of people.

 

[stamfordhusky]

Tiger Woods has been many things, including one of the very best to ever play the game, but he has NOT been "a gentleman on the course since he got there".

Correct. Tiger is anything but a gentleman much of the time. His petulant behavior, cursing, and club throwing got old a long time ago.

 

[stamfordhusky]

Sorry but could you post some links to these events?

Tiger was fined for his conduct at Dubai for spitting on the green. Google it. Lots of video on youtube. The announcers refer to his conduct as "arrogant and petulant", and comment about how disgusting it is for him to leave a big wad of spit on the green for someone to have to putt through.

Not the only time.

 

[Alydar]

All I'm saying is that if you put a camera on every player on tour 24/7 you would find Tiger is no saint but that saints are a rare breed. If not liking a player on tour is based on his level of gentlemanlyness then that person must either "dislike" a long list of tour players or else come up with a better reason to not like Tiger.
.
Like I said before, I watch golf to see spectacular play and Tiger makes spectacular shots. Golf fans should be thankful that we get to watch him play in our lifetimes instead of spending our time judging his lifestyle.

 

[Alydar]

Correct. Tiger is anything but a gentleman much of the time. His petulant behavior, cursing, and club throwing got old a long time ago.

again, you make a charge but provide no evidence. (link to article or table or some source of these charges). I watch just about every hole he plays that is on TV and I don't recall him doing all of these things. Cursing? Grow up. I don't understand what "petulant" means. Club throw (not throwing, like he does it all the time) Phil slammed a club on the ground in a violent manner on Thusday yet not a discouraging word about it from the media. IMO Tiger is held to a standard that no one else could meet or is asked to meet.
If asked how you feel about Pavoratti would you talk of his genius or just say he was fat?

 

[cookie447]

Oh dear; I'm really, really sorry I started this thread. The vitriol has been astonishing in a very sad manner. Next time, I'll do my best to avoid the opportunity for such nastiness.

 

[Alydar]

Tiger was fined for his conduct at Dubai for spitting on the green. Google it. Lots of video on youtube. The announcers refer to his conduct as "arrogant and petulant", and comment about how disgusting it is for him to leave a big wad of spit on the green for someone to have to putt through.

Not the only time.

Yeah, I bet they never invite him back. LOL

 

[stamfordhusky]

again, you make a charge but provide no evidence. (link to article or table or some source of these charges). I watch just about every hole he plays that is on TV and I don't recall him doing all of these things. Cursing? Grow up. I don't understand what "petulant" means. Club throw (not throwing, like he does it all the time) If asked how you feel about Pavoratti (sic) would you talk of his genius or just say he was fat?

I provided a link to Feinstein's article and also pointed out you could see the spitting incident on Youtube. It appears you don't want evidence. If you do some basic googling, you can find ten pages of evidence in a couple of minutes.

And you clearly haven't watched a lot of Tiger if you haven't seen incidents of spoiled-rotten behavior. I have seen dozens - including five or six at events I attended in person. As for petulant, use a dictionary. (You may find Tiger's picture beside the definition.) And as for Pavarotti, if he acted in the same unacceptable way as Tiger, I'd have the same comments. Your analogy, however, is deeply flawed - uncivil behavior is completely different than physical appearance.

Another comment from Feinstein about Tiger's unacceptable behavior:

"This time it isn’t an f-bomb or a thrown club or his vigilante caddie. This time he was clearly caught on-camera spitting on the 12th green on Sunday in Dubai.

Honestly though, the real issue here isn’t that Woods did what he did. It was wrong and the European Tour was completely justified in fining him for his regression to behavior that most of us know isn’t acceptable by about the age of five. Of course that brings up the real problem: No one has ever really explained to Woods that there are certain things you don’t do on a golf course."

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/john-feinstein/not-fine-by-us/

 

[stamfordhusky]

Oh dear; I'm really, really sorry I started this thread. The vitriol has been astonishing in a very sad manner. Next time, I'll do my best to avoid the opportunity for such nastiness.

The "vitriol" directed at Tiger is, sadly, all accurate. You could fill an entire book with incidents.

 

[Alydar]

I provided a link to Feinstein's article and also pointed out you could see the spitting incident on Youtube. It appears you don't want evidence. If you do some basic googling, you can find ten pages of evidence in a couple of minutes.

And you clearly haven't watched a lot of Tiger if you haven't seen incidents of spoiled-rotten behavior. I have seen dozens - including five or six at events I attended in person. As for petulant, use a dictionary. (You may find Tiger's picture beside the definition.) And as for Pavarotti, if he acted in the same unacceptable way as Tiger, I'd have the same comments. Your analogy, however, is deeply flawed - uncivil behavior is completely different than physical appearance.

Another comment from Feinstein about Tiger's unacceptable behavior:

"This time it isn’t an f-bomb or a thrown club or his vigilante caddie. This time he was clearly caught on-camera spitting on the 12th green on Sunday in Dubai.

Honestly though, the real issue here isn’t that Woods did what he did. It was wrong and the European Tour was completely justified in fining him for his regression to behavior that most of us know isn’t acceptable by about the age of five. Of course that brings up the real problem: No one has ever really explained to Woods that there are certain things you don’t do on a golf course."

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/john-feinstein/not-fine-by-us/[/quote]


The sarcastic and condescending tone of Mr. Feinstein' s article says that his issues with Tiger Woods are not new. I'll need something better than one spitting incident, one club throw and a bag of F=Bombs over a 14 year career. Mr. Fienstein is bandering to the same element that found fault with Jackie Robinson while trying to make himself known by flinging mud. (JMO of course) You may draw your own conclusions.

 

[Alydar]

It's plain that no one's opinion is changing so I'm out of this thread.

 

[VAUConnFan]

Oh dear; I'm really, really sorry I started this thread. The vitriol has been astonishing in a very sad manner. Next time, I'll do my best to avoid the opportunity for such nastiness.

Not your fault and do not be sorry. Sometimes it gets nasty here. You wanted to start a thread extolling some fine golf play from one of the greatest of all time that included an all time great shot on the 16th Hole; BUT, the haters came out. You are new here so take heed to the subjects and to the people that draw the most ire. When venturing into those areas, just be well armed with facts and you will be fine.

 

[Fishy]

The guy is a great golfer.

The rest is just noise.

 

[DaddyChoc]

Oh dear; I'm really, really sorry I started this thread. The vitriol has been astonishing in a very sad manner. Next time, I'll do my best to avoid the opportunity for such nastiness.

what was your reason for starting the thread? just asking

its noted that you didnt make a comment but Im just curious as to why you started this thread on Sunday?