OT - Patriots

[StoweD210]

I don't think those helmets can into use until after spygate was uncovered - I think their first year was the year after the Patriots were caught filming defensive signals at Giants Stadium. (2007?)

Offensive signals have been sent in to the QB via helmet radio since 1994. Upstater was responding to someone who claimed the Patriots defense somehow benefited from the story from 7 years ago.

As to the main topic, New England looked awful on offense and defense on Monday. And they haven't had a great offensive game all season. Maybe this is "the end" and they are in serious trouble, but I think we won't know that for another 6 games or so.

Look at the results from last week: The Falcons destroyed Tampa Bay 56-14 and it could have been much worse if Atlanta really tried in the second half. The Steelers went to Carolina and convincingly beat the Panthers. What happened this week? Tampa went to Pittsburgh and won. The Falcons followed up their landslide win by losing by two scores in Minnesota, a team that New England beat by 34 points two weeks ago. It may end up being true, but it's hard to say that the wheels have come off for good in September.

 

[Fishy]

1994 - had no idea it was that long. Perhaps that's why they were limited to filming defensive signals.

Your analysis ignores that the Teddy Bridgewater era began this weekend and that the league now belongs to the Minnesota Vikings.

 

[LStudfellow]

Mankins trade looks dumber every week - there was a reason why Brady was furious about it. Game is lost every week in the trenches with the horrible O Line. Interesting stat - last time pats lost week 1 & 4 was 2003 when they didn't lose for the rest of the season. They're too smart to not figure it out and I think it's a bit too early to consider them out. The NFL season has been a weird one so far - I'm sure the gambling crowd would agree.

Ladies and Gentleman, we have a winner! It is ALL about the guys in the trenches, and this is the worst Offensive Line the Patriots have had since the mid 1990's. We would all look like crap if we were taking the beating that Brady is taking right now.

The only way this team makes the playoffs is because the other 3 teams in that division are from mediocre to woeful. That 7-point struggle versus Oakland last week was no mirage... the Patriots are in serious trouble.

 

[Matt (Chicago)]

That was my second post on the matter. Not my first.

And yes the Patriots scored the 4th most points in 2012-2013. It was Brady's best year because unlike 2007, the points came in the run of play instead of piling them up. Brady wasn't on a quest to break TD passing records. Instead, they ran the ball for 26 TDs, 4 of them by Brady. This was the year everyone was impressed by Aaron Rodgers for throwing an amazing # of TDs, only the Packers averaged a TD less per game than the Patriots, and the Packers ran for 7 TDs to the Patriots 26.

By the way, before telling me to do some fact checking, why not provide a link that isn't very dated? Your link (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d825a2bb1/article/most-points-in-season-team) is from August 2012. This would be the equivalent of claiming Peyton Manning doesn't have the TD pass record with a link dated back from 2009.

Regardless of the order of the post it still doesn't change the fact that you said they scored the 4th most points and he has his best year in 2013-2014. You can correct yourself now, but it was wrong when you first posted it.
Also, its very evident that you're saying the 2012 season was Brady's best is opinion based. They scored more points in 2007 than they did in 2012, Brady had a higher QBR, and he won the MVP so you can make a very strong case that 2007 was a better year for him.

 

[upstater]

Regardless of the order of the post it still doesn't change the fact that you said they scored the 4th most points and he has his best year in 2013-2014. You can correct yourself now, but it was wrong when you first posted it.
Also, its very evident that you're saying the 2012 season was Brady's best is opinion based. They scored more points in 2007 than they did in 2012, Brady had a higher QBR, and he won the MVP so you can make a very strong case that 2007 was a better year for him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_New_England_Patriots_season


"The 2012-2013 Patriots featured a prolific offense that broke the record for first downs in a season, with 444, and finished third all-time in scoring, with 557 points, finishing only behind the 2011 Green Bay Packers and their previous 2007 record setting season. Additionally, this was the third consecutive season that the Patriots exceeded 500 points scored, which tied the record set by the 1999– 2001 St. Louis Rams."

You can point to QBR all you like, or even passing rating. But those 26 rushing TDs were scored mostly when the Patriots got inside the 5 yard line, and they pounded the ball. 26 TDs and Green Bay (the 2nd most prolific offense in NFL history the prior year) only had 7 such TDs. That stat doesn't figure at all into QBR and passer rating.

Regardless, you keep saying my statistics are wrong but actually you're wrong on the stats. Either that, or you have severe difficulty with reading comprehension.

 

[intlzncster]

This is precisely how I feel. I never really worry about the Patriots, and I feel like I have realistic expectations year in and year out. That being said, I'm getting concerned. If they are still playing this way in two or three weeks, I'll be in full panic mode. (Think "Boneyard after a regular season close game with Quinnipiac")

Plus, we are about to play an astoundingly complete Bengals team on a short week. Then two divisional games. If we go 2-1 I'll be happy. I'm thinking it'll be 1-2 though.

 

[upstater]

Plus, we are about to play an astoundingly complete Bengals team on a short week. Then two divisional games. If we go 2-1 I'll be happy. I'm thinking it'll be 1-2 though.

How does the NFL manage to schedule a team coming off Monday night against a team with a bye week?

I mean, they can't do better than that?

 

[intlzncster]

How does the NFL manage to schedule a team coming off Monday night against a team with a bye week?

I mean, they can't do better than that?

I forget who it was (Detroit maybe?), but last year I think some team had Monday Night/Sunday day/Thursday night in that order. Criminal.

 

[Matt (Chicago)]

Go back and look at Brady's numbers early last year. It was ugly.

Those of you saying he's overrated may want to consider what happened in the last 24 months.

Brady had his best year ever in 2013-2014 when the Patriots scored the 4th most points in NFL history. So next September comes around, and he's pronounced finished because he can't complete passes.

In December, he was throwing to Gronkowski, Wes Welker, Aaron Hernandez and Brandon Lloyd (who caught 70-80 passes). In September, he was throwing to none of these guys. None of them were on the field, and when Gronk came back, he tore his knee ligaments badly.

That's what's changed.

You may have noticed that he's now throwing to Edelman (who is fantastic), a gimpy Gronk, and a bunch of JAGs at WR who were unwanted by former teams.

When you have no one to throw to, it's a night and day difference.

I'm just going to quote the post (your first post on the thread btw) so you can see what I'm referring to. I'll even bold and italicize the sentence for you...you know, because my reading comprehension is so bad. As you can see above, you stated that "Brady had his best year ever in 2013 - 2014.."

Now, let me say this again. Brady did NOT have his best year ever in 2013-2014. He really didnt have his best year in 2012-2013 either... you can argue the team did (I can see your points there)... but Brady definitely has his best year in 2007. I hope thats clear enough for you... afterall you were the one who said it.

 

[Matt (Chicago)]

Troy Brown, Deion Branch, David Givens, etc. were very good. LaFell and Edelman are better than that? No.

Let me state this again: the Patriots had their best offensive year in 2013-2014, and a few short months later, when their 4 top pass catchers were gone, they became abysmal on offense.

How is this not the likeliest explanation for the problems? When you go from Welker, Gronkowski, Hernandez and Lloyd to Edelman and a bunch of street free agents in half a year, and you see different results, why in the world would anyone draw anything but the most obvious conclusion?

This is your second post. I bolded and italicized the sentence in question this time too. As you can see you also stated here (you even reiterated it from your first post) that :"the Patriots had their best offensive year in 2013-2014". You switched from just Brady to the team here, but regardless you still have the year wrong.

 

[Matt (Chicago)]

What have you been seeing for a few years? I mean, 2012-2013 was fantastic. The poor play began last season.

Aha! Finally got the year right! Its funny that you mention "the poor play began last season," which was in fact 2013-2014, the year that, according to your earlier posts (two of them, not just one) both Brady and the Patriots had their best season offensively.

 

[upstater]

This is your second post. I bolded and italicized the sentence in question this time too. As you can see you also stated here (you even reiterated it from your first post) that :"the Patriots had their best offensive year in 2013-2014". You switched from just Brady to the team here, but regardless you still have the year wrong.

You have a great difficulty reading. Several posts ago I wrote that I got it right the first time I mentioned it and messed it up the second time. I also said that I got it right the third time I mentioned it. The whole point should be crystal clear regardless because of the context. I wrote that Brady had his best year in 2013-2014 and just a few months later when Hernandez, Gronk, Welker and Lloyd weren't on the field, the offense suffered. It should be obvious to you what year I was talking about. In all but one instance I wrote it was 2012-2013. And I even wrote a post about that.

Now, what's your excuse for using a 2012 article as evidence that the 2012-2013 Patriots are NOT the 4th best scoring O of all time.

 

[upstater]

Now, let me say this again. Brady did NOT have his best year ever in 2013-2014. He really didnt have his best year in 2012-2013 either... you can argue the team did (I can see your points there)... but Brady definitely has his best year in 2007. I hope thats clear enough for you... afterall you were the one who said it.

I'm not going to address the idiotic points about the year since it was already addressed a long time ago (and I find it bizarre that you're sticking to that, especially since you're the guy that used a 2012 link to say I was making up stats, and you haven't even admitted your error) but fantasy football fans like you put so much emphasis on things like QB ratings or QBR without realizing those stats do not account for a team's points. They only count passing TDs. A team like the Patriots that scored 26 rushing TDs (a very high total) does not figure in the QBs stats at all. Which is ridiculous. In fact, if you including Brady's rushing TDs into his QB ratings, it would have jumped another 5 points.

 

[Matt (Chicago)]

You have a great difficulty reading. Several posts ago I wrote that I got it right the first time I mentioned it and messed it up the second time. I also said that I got it right the third time I mentioned it. The whole point should be crystal clear regardless because of the context. I wrote that Brady had his best year in 2013-2014 and just a few months later when Hernandez, Gronk, Welker and Lloyd weren't on the field, the offense suffered. It should be obvious to you what year I was talking about. In all but one instance I wrote it was 2012-2013. And I even wrote a post about that.

Now, what's your excuse for using a 2012 article as evidence that the 2012-2013 Patriots are NOT the 4th best scoring O of all time.

OK so just so we are on same page here, please tell me what year you are claiming Brady had his best year.

Why do I need an excuse? I posted a dated link, my mistake. Big deal.

 

[Matt (Chicago)]

I'm not going to address the idiotic points about the year since it was already addressed a long time ago (and I find it bizarre that you're sticking to that, especially since you're the guy that used a 2012 link to say I was making up stats, and you haven't even admitted your error) but fantasy football fans like you put so much emphasis on things like QB ratings or QBR without realizing those stats do not account for a team's points. They only count passing TDs. A team like the Patriots that scored 26 rushing TDs (a very high total) does not figure in the QBs stats at all. Which is ridiculous. In fact, if you including Brady's rushing TDs into his QB ratings, it would have jumped another 5 points.

Ha.. yes fantasy football fans...I'll ignore your childish jab there, and continue stating facts.

Let's take out QBR then and go back to my other points, which you elected to ignore. The 2007 team still scored more points than the 2012 team, Brady won the MVP, and they went undefeated in the regular season.

 

[Deepster]

How does the NFL manage to schedule a team coming off Monday night against a team with a bye week?

I mean, they can't do better than that?

Oh, poor babies. Seeing how 90% of every important December game has been a home game for the last decade, my heart absolutely bleeds here.

 

[upstater]

Oh, poor babies. Seeing how 90% of every important December game has been a home game for the last decade, my heart absolutely bleeds here.

Patriots actually don't play important games in December. Ever. They all come around network sweeps weeks about a month before December. We get division foes in December. Can't remember a big December game in ages.

 

[upstater]

OK so just so we are on same page here, please tell me what year you are claiming Brady had his best year.

Why do I need an excuse? I posted a dated link, my mistake. Big deal.

Great, you admitted it. As I did my mistake pages back. The rest of this is totally pointless. I already pointed out that QBR doesn't take into account rushing TDs at all, even by the QB. It's a stat that doesn't look at half the offense. For instance, the Patriots gained about 4700 through the air and 2100 on the ground, and yet the TD split was 34/26. From watching those games, I can tell you that the Patriots passed down to the 5 yard line and then ran it in, a lot. And that's a credit to the passing offense and the QB, since they accomplished this with Stevan Ridley.

 

[Matt (Chicago)]

So answer the question then. What year did he have his best year? Not sure why you're still talking about QBR when I told you in my last post, even taking that stat out the 2007 offense scored more and won more games.

 

[upstater]

So answer the question then. What year did he have his best year? Not sure why you're still talking about QBR when I told you in my last post, even taking that stat out the 2007 offense scored more and won more games.

You're asking me when he had his best year. I think I've only said that 5000 times in this thread. His best year was 2012-2013. That's the year he carried the team. When he had practically no help from the defense. And the team did everything on offense. If you back out 4th quarter pile-em-up scores from both years, the scoring is practically even. But the offense was simply an incredible machine in 2012-2013, whereas in 2007 they relied on a lot of jump balls to Randy Moss. If I'm not mistaken, Moss had about 20-23 TDs that year, and half of them were lollipop bombs for plus 30 yards.

 

[Matt (Chicago)]

Anybody who was bashing Brady/Pats actually watch that game last night?? Haven't seen them that fired up in awhile,what a game!! Completely dismantled an undefeated team that was coming off a bye wk... enjoy that crow, GO PATS!!

 

[I Bleed Blue]

The Patriots hate is strong here. Just remember, its only 5 games in. They'll be much better come playoffs.

 

[intlzncster]

Anybody who was bashing Brady/Pats actually watch that game last night?? Haven't seen them that fired up in awhile,what a game!! Completely dismantled an undefeated team that was coming off a bye wk... enjoy that crow, GO PATS!!

You might as well add that the Pats were coming off a short week (MNF) as well.

 

[huskypantz]

Anybody who was bashing Brady/Pats actually watch that game last night?? Haven't seen them that fired up in awhile,what a game!! Completely dismantled an undefeated team that was coming off a bye wk... enjoy that crow, GO PATS!!

They played with fire and energy and looked like they were having fun. That was one of the biggest performance swings I've ever seen from an offensive line.

 

[mauconnfan]

The Patriots hate is strong here. Just remember, its only 5 games in. They'll be much better come playoffs.

Yeah but how much good will that do them at 8-8?

 

[Matt (Chicago)]

Yeah but how much good will that do them at 8-8?

So you have them pegged for 6 more losses?

 

[Waquoit]

I don't mind the Pats bashing, their too cool for school act has worn thin. But I think Brady is underrated. Other teams work to add weapons in support of their QB. The Pats remove weapons and expect him to make up the difference. None of the other current greats have that pressure.

 

[Husky25]

Getting a 1/2 seed and the BYE most years helps big time.... again, that results from having a great regular season record from beating inferior teams within your division. There's no arguing what I'm saying. AFC East has been one of the weakest divisions in football for a LONG time. Outside of the Patriots, no team in that division has had a consistent QB for more than 5 years running, let alone an average QB.

Except that their winning percentage vs. the rest of the league is virtually identical as their division winning percentage since Brady became the full time starter. It may even be better.

 

[Husky25]

I don't think those helmets can into use until after spygate was uncovered - I think their first year was the year after the Patriots were caught filming defensive signals at Giants Stadium. (2007?)

I don't want to get into Spygate but clearly you don't know what Spygate was about.

The offensive plays are sent in to the QB through a radio in his helmet. Unless Edward Snowden has evidence that the Patriots tapped into those frequencies then you need to come up with another theory.

Spy-gate was about taping defensive hand signals, not offensive play calls. In 2008, the NFL began allowing 1 defensive player on the field to where a speaker as well.

Oh, and the entire league was trying to steal signs. It was part of the game, just like in baseball. The Patriots were caught because they were taping them and being blatant about it...especially vs. a rival coach (and former staff) who Belichick didn't endorse for his then position.

 

[upstater]

Brady isn't off. This is who he is now. He's been like this all of last year and now this year. That's 20 games. He can't complete a pass in the air over 15 yards. His o line isn't great. And he doesn't have the greatest receivers anymore. But how hard is to play pass coverage when he literally doesn't try to throw it downfield, or when he does he sails the receiver by 10 yards.

I always thought he was overrated. Definitely a great great qb but not as good as Peyton and certainly not the god people make him out to be. He's always had a great system, a great O line, a great d for most of it, and by far the best coach in the league. 20 games going now and he's had a passer rating ranked in the 20s in the league.