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OT - Patriots

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jleves

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I think we're watching the end of an era. They are just not very good - getting crushed right now by a 1-2 team. They will probably make the playoffs because they play in the weakest conference in football, but they will not go anywhere. Brady is 37 and last I checked, not getting any younger.

They really need to start revamping the team if they want to compete in the future. But they are not what they once were.

I have no idea why I had a need to post this as I'm a Cardinals fan, but I guess I've liked following them for the last 10 to 15 years and they are no longer that. It will be interesting if they can get back to elite. Best coach in football - good management. We'll see.
 

Huskyforlife

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Brady looks off, I don't know if it's the receivers or something, but this isn't the same Brady. The defense Is also surprisingly terrible
 
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Brady isn't off. This is who he is now. He's been like this all of last year and now this year. That's 20 games. He can't complete a pass in the air over 15 yards. His o line isn't great. And he doesn't have the greatest receivers anymore. But how hard is to play pass coverage when he literally doesn't try to throw it downfield, or when he does he sails the receiver by 10 yards.

I always thought he was overrated. Definitely a great great qb but not as good as Peyton and certainly not the god people make him out to be. He's always had a great system, a great O line, a great d for most of it, and by far the best coach in the league. 20 games going now and he's had a passer rating ranked in the 20s in the league.
 
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Can Tirico and Gruden suck Brady's dick any harder.
 
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As a diehard Yankees/Giants fan who hates Boston, it reminds me of the Yankees downfall the past 3-4 years. Both teams have aging stars and seemed committed to riding or dying with their old core. They need a revamping, or New England will go through what we have gone through: missing the playoffs and struggling for .500.
 
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Mankins trade looks dumber every week - there was a reason why Brady was furious about it. Game is lost every week in the trenches with the horrible O Line. Interesting stat - last time pats lost week 1 & 4 was 2003 when they didn't lose for the rest of the season. They're too smart to not figure it out and I think it's a bit too early to consider them out. The NFL season has been a weird one so far - I'm sure the gambling crowd would agree.
 
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I think Belichick outsmarted himself with a few of the offseason moves over the last couple of years.
 

Fishy

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I don't think anyone can ever accuse the Patriots of relying on a core of anything - they might be more willing than any organization outside of the Red Sox to get rid of aging/expensive players.

Tom Brady is getting older and he's flat-out allergic to contact, but if you're going to replace him, you better have a really, really good replacement. Your worst nightmare would be if Brady goes to some plug-and-play situation and throws for eighty-gazillion yards.
 
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Dooomed!


Hahaha its gonna be ok...get browner back...dobson will play from now on biggest thing is Oline. We have known for years when Brady doesn't trust his oline and is playing uncomfortable in the pocket he turns into a mediocre qb...don't over react
 

intlzncster

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Been a weird year in general so far in the NFL. Per Field Yates:
"After Week 4, just 5 of last year's 12 playoff teams have winning records. 6 others are 2-2."

The Pats have almost identical personnel to last year (when they went 12-4). They've got a ton of guys back from injury, upgraded at a number of positions, and theoretically should be crushing it.

But they flat out suck right now.

On O, it's all the offensive line. Yeah, no Mankins. That's big, but how the hell did a couple of Pro Bowl OTs become absolutely dogsh!t over night? It's really weird.

On D, I have no freakin clue. Shouldn't have cut Tommy Kelly?
 

intlzncster

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As a diehard Yankees/Giants fan who hates Boston, it reminds me of the Yankees downfall the past 3-4 years. Both teams have aging stars and seemed committed to riding or dying with their old core. They need a revamping, or New England will go through what we have gone through: missing the playoffs and struggling for .500.

New England is one of the Top 10 youngest teams in the league. If you normalized for Brady, they'd probably be top 5.

They only have 6 guys that are over 30+ years old (and three of those are 30 yr olds).
 

UConn4ever

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Watching the game tonight reminded me of watching a UConn football game almost unwatchable
 
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Kraft is a cheap owner and the Patriots over achieved with players he put on the field the last few years.. Sure Brady has slipped some but he hasn't had any top wide receivers in awhile. Put Brady on a team with some talent and we would see a QB who is still very effective. Kraft got away with it for longer than he should have but now the Patriots will pay the price. They may still make the playoffs but no way this team as currently constructed makes it to the Superbowl. They just aren't good enough.
 
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5th youngest team in NFL . Take out Brady and Vince and they are 2nd .Brady over rated , really . Where have you been for the last 15 years? He is obviously not the same quarterback but what a career he's had. Defense should come around the offense has to improve and have more talent especially a deep threat and OL upgrade. Kraft being cheap I know nothing about that. First time I have heard that if he is he's done damm well being cheap.
 

intlzncster

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Kraft is a cheap owner and the Patriots over achieved with players he put on the field the last few years.. Sure Brady has slipped some but he hasn't had any top wide receivers in awhile. Put Brady on a team with some talent and we would see a QB who is still very effective. Kraft got away with it for longer than he should have but now the Patriots will pay the price. They may still make the playoffs but no way this team as currently constructed makes it to the Superbowl. They just aren't good enough.

They are annually in the Top 5-10 in money spent in the NFL. How are they cheap? They manage the cap (which is different from total annual salary outlay) better than most, which is what you are referring to I guess. You want to have a decent portion of your cap available at various times throughout the season, in order to sign contingency players in case of multiple injury, and so that you can resign your core guys and spread cap money. I'd think the Pats are going to use a good portion of their 2014 cap to reup guys like McCourty. I would have said Solder too, but he looks like a dead fish right now.

Their system is exactly what has got them this:

upload_2014-9-30_8-7-19.png


That's not an accident. It's exactly the thing you are railing against which has allowed them to be successful for so long.
 

UChusky916

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They are annually in the Top 5-10 in money spent in the NFL. How are they cheap? They manage the cap (which is different from total annual salary outlay) better than most, which is what you are referring to I guess. You want to have a decent portion of your cap available at various times throughout the season, in order to sign contingency players in case of multiple injury, and so that you can resign your core guys and spread cap money. I'd think the Pats are going to use a good portion of their cap to reup McCourty. I would have said Solder too, but he looks like a dead fish right now.

Their system is exactly what has got them this:

View attachment 7024

That's not an accident. It's exactly the thing you are railing against which has allowed them to be successful for so long.

I think a lot of the consecutive winning seasons has to do with playing in what is consistently one of the worst conferences, the AFC East. The Bills/Jets/Dolphins have all been bad for a very long time. What was the best QB has Brady has had to consistently duel it out with from the AFC East? Mark Sanchez? Ryan Fitzpatrick? Pats also have had good coaching and front office management which goes a long way towards winning. But they've done it against mostly inferior competition in their division. Now, the pats, along with Brady, are no longer an elite team. Wouldn't be surprised if the Dolphins or Bills take the division.
 
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Go back and look at Brady's numbers early last year. It was ugly.

Those of you saying he's overrated may want to consider what happened in the last 24 months.

Brady had his best year ever in 2013-2014 when the Patriots scored the 4th most points in NFL history. So next September comes around, and he's pronounced finished because he can't complete passes.

In December, he was throwing to Gronkowski, Wes Welker, Aaron Hernandez and Brandon Lloyd (who caught 70-80 passes). In September, he was throwing to none of these guys. None of them were on the field, and when Gronk came back, he tore his knee ligaments badly.

That's what's changed.

You may have noticed that he's now throwing to Edelman (who is fantastic), a gimpy Gronk, and a bunch of JAGs at WR who were unwanted by former teams.

When you have no one to throw to, it's a night and day difference.
 
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I think a lot of the consecutive winning seasons has to do with playing in what is consistently one of the worst conferences, the AFC East. The Bills/Jets/Dolphins have all been bad for a very long time. What was the best QB has Brady has had to consistently duel it out with from the AFC East? Mark Sanchez? Ryan Fitzpatrick? Pats also have had good coaching and front office management which goes a long way towards winning. But they've done it against mostly inferior competition in their division. Now, the pats, along with Brady, are no longer an elite team. Wouldn't be surprised if the Dolphins or Bills take the division.

They've been in the AFC Championship every other year of Brady's career, so how do they advance that far because of a weak division? Seems they'd be stopped in their tracks long before winning two playoff games.
 

UChusky916

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They've been in the AFC Championship every other year of Brady's career, so how do they advance that far because of a weak division? Seems they'd be stopped in their tracks long before winning two playoff games.

Getting a 1/2 seed and the BYE most years helps big time.... again, that results from having a great regular season record from beating inferior teams within your division. There's no arguing what I'm saying. AFC East has been one of the weakest divisions in football for a LONG time. Outside of the Patriots, no team in that division has had a consistent QB for more than 5 years running, let alone an average QB.
 
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I have no idea why I had a need to post this as I'm a Cardinals fan, but I guess I've liked following them for the last 10 to 15 years and they are no longer that.
The 1925 championship belongs to the Pottsville Maroons! Bidwells = cheap thieves.
 
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Getting a 1/2 seed and the BYE most years helps big time.... again, that results from having a great regular season record from beating inferior teams within your division. There's no arguing what I'm saying. AFC East has been one of the weakest divisions in football for a LONG time. Outside of the Patriots, no team in that division has had a consistent QB for more than 5 years running, let alone an average QB.

Playing the Patriots doesn't help these teams either. I mean, look at the Jets. They can get to consecutive AFC Championship games, but they can't win the division. It works both ways. The Patriots also don't always grab the bye. They've made the championship game a few times without the bye. Heck, they've gone 11-5 and didn't even win the division once.
 

intlzncster

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I think a lot of the consecutive winning seasons has to do with playing in what is consistently one of the worst conferences, the AFC East. The Bills/Jets/Dolphins have all been bad for a very long time. What was the best QB has Brady has had to consistently duel it out with from the AFC East? Mark Sanchez? Ryan Fitzpatrick? Pats also have had good coaching and front office management which goes a long way towards winning. But they've done it against mostly inferior competition in their division. Now, the pats, along with Brady, are no longer an elite team. Wouldn't be surprised if the Dolphins or Bills take the division.
They've been in the AFC Championship every other year of Brady's career, so how do they advance that far because of a weak division? Seems they'd be stopped in their tracks long before winning two playoff games.

Yet their record against the rest of the league (non AFC East) is one of the best in the NFL. So they beat everybody. Yes, the AFC hasn't been good for the last couple of years.

I mean they were in the Super Bowl a couple of years ago, within a couple of plays of winning it. And, the year after, they made an AFC Championship game without half their best players. That's hardly a stunning fall.

And the AFC East hasn't been as bad as you are claiming. It's usually somewhere between top 3 and middle of the pack, if you look at non divisional game records (much of that is due to the Patriots, I'll grant you - but that is the point).
 
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Their defense was off last night. But they have the pieces there for a very good D. Chandler Jones was abused on the edge a few times, and then hurt his shoulder and didn't play.

The offense is not going to find answers because they don't have the pieces. There's a small hope I guess that Gronk is going to knock the rust off his ACL, and in that case they may do enough on O with Edelman, Gronk and a 3rd piece like LaFell to keep other teams honest, and to get back in the hunt. But you can't rely on Gronk getting healthy.

By the way, on Hali's strip sack of Brady, that was a huge key play because the Patriots finally were going long to Gronk after he was mostly underneath. You could see Gronk break free 5 yards beyond his guy 20 yards downfield, and Brady was going there. Hali got a very good jump on Solder there.
 

intlzncster

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The offense is not going to find answers because they don't have the pieces. There's a small hope I guess that Gronk is going to knock the rust off his ACL, and in that case they may do enough on O with Edelman, Gronk and a 3rd piece like LaFell to keep other teams honest, and to get back in the hunt. But you can't rely on Gronk getting healthy.

By the way, on Hali's strip sack of Brady, that was a huge key play because the Patriots finally were going long to Gronk after he was mostly underneath. You could see Gronk break free 5 yards beyond his guy 20 yards downfield, and Brady was going there. Hali got a very good jump on Solder there.

This the play (Hali) you are referring to? https://vine.co/v/OmzzAE22VqD

Let's face it, Solder has been woeful. He got benched in this game. Maybe Mankins ability at right guard was giving Solder more of an advantage than anyone thought.

I still think it's the O-line on offense. Brady has had less time to throw than in years past. The best receivers in the world aren't going to help if you can't get the ball out. He's been taking a beating too. Huge problem as he's an old dude now. If they don't get the O-line issues fixed, Brady might be dead by the end of the season. Maybe Dante Scarnecchia really was the Wizard of Oz.
 
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