OT: Mayweather vs Pacquiao

[AZHuskiePop]

Agree that Pacquiao's lack of aggression was a problem. You can attribute it to carryover from the Marquez knockout, or getting caught by Mayweather's straight right hand, but I thought Manny had opportunities where he had cut off the ring well but didn't attack at all when given the opportunity.

Talking with someone today who is/was a big Pernell Whitaker fan back in the day and thinks Pernell could beat Mayweather. Not sure about that, but I suspect that the two of them would likely just step into the ring and dodge each other for 12 rounds.

That would be one ugly fight or beatiful display of boxing depending on your perspective.

 

[Phillyconn]

Evander was a cruiser-weight not as a light heavy
Archie Moore was KOed by Rocky Marciano then lost to Floyd Patterson
when The Rock retired.

Evander Holyfield - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evander_Holyfield
After winning the bronze medal in the Light Heavyweight division at the 1984 Summer Olympics, Holyfield debuted as a professional at the age of 21. Holyfield moved to the cruiserweight division in 1985 and won his first title the following year, when he defeated Dwight Muhammad Qawi for the WBA Cruiserweight belt.

Archie Moore was an old shot fighter when he fought Marciano, Patterson and Ali.

 

[CallMeBruce]

Evander Holyfield - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evander_Holyfield
After winning the bronze medal in the Light Heavyweight division at the 1984 Summer Olympics, Holyfield debuted as a professional at the age of 21. Holyfield moved to the cruiserweight division in 1985 and won his first title the following year, when he defeated Dwight Muhammad Qawi for the WBA Cruiserweight belt.

Archie Moore was an old shot fighter when he fought Marciano, Patterson and Ali.

So, you're conceding the point, then? Holyfield won his first title as a cruiserweight. He never won the light heavyweight title.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

So what! If you don't think people can change in spite of their past, then you are crazy. It's called growing up, learning from your mistakes. IMHO, he is a victim somewhat. You don't have to let your past, define your future. People are jealous, of Floyd, it's like people look for any negative thing to try to ridicule the man. Let he who has never sinned, cast the first stone. Look at others, who get away with stuff because they're not Floyd. You just don't get it. There are a lot of people who abuse women everyday, and get away with it. It's called mental abuse, which can be more damaging than the physical abuse. Gotta run for now, I'll check back later.

You should be embarrassed for this post. Either you don't know the first thing about his track record or you're just a blind fan boy, but either way the "Floyd is the victim" thing is straight up embarrassing.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

I think Archie Moore won both, not sure though. Evander Holyfield won both titles. Would you say that Roy was better better than either of those guys? As a middle weight would you put him up there with Robinson, Fulmer or Hagler?

Roy was better than Fullmer for sure and probably Hagler but that would have been an interesting fight.
Their are a bunch of great Middleweight and supermiddleweight boxers in history.
One of the richest Divisions traditional.
Did anyone ever see Carlos Monzon fight.
He held the title for Seven years. Considered by many right near Sugar Ray in the Pantheon of Middleweight greats. But there are so many good ones.
In the 1920-60's boxing in the U.S. was pretty much the only sport for a poor kid to accumulate any wealth. The talent pool was huge.

 

[noeynox]

Sugar Ray Robinson.... Boxers with glass jaws, imho, are not great.

I never saw the real Sugar Ray, if you did, kudos to you. Again, Roy didn't show a glass jaw till his legs abandoned him following the move up to heavy and back down to light heavy. He should have run off into the sunset after the heavyweight title, but for reasons only known to him he continues to fight today. Roy was greatness in the ring.

 

[noeynox]

I think Archie Moore won both, not sure though. Evander Holyfield won both titles. Would you say that Roy was better better than either of those guys? As a middle weight would you put him up there with Robinson, Fulmer or Hagler?

I think one of the Spinks brothers did it, maybe Michael. Heavyweights were much smaller during the eras you brought up.

I won't speak to fighters I didn't see during their time. Of the old fighters who I've only seen highlights and old fights, Joe Louis to me was the most impressive, while Sugar Ray was probably second.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

So, you're conceding the point, then? Holyfield won his first title as a cruiserweight. He never won the light heavyweight title.

I loved Quwi . I think he was about 5'6 or 5'7
He was a tough little guy . He gave Evander all he could handle.
The Knock that Archie was an old man when he lost to Rocky and Floyd is ridicules
He just hit his stride in his late thirties winning the Iightheavy title for the first time
In 1954
it was a tough division post war ,he was one of many in the crowd.
He then was knocked out by Rocky and Floyd in 1955 ,one might say at the peak of his career.
He retained the light heavyweight belt until stripped in the sixties
He fought Ali in 1963 yes he was over the hill when he fought Ali
By the way the Great Ezzard Charles although he actually never won the light heavyweight title is considered by Ring the greatest light heavy of all time he campaigned for years at that weight but the politics of Boxing kept him from winning it. He got his title shot as a heavy weight.
Moore was beaten by Charles a couple of times. At 175
Heavyweights of that era were typically 185-200lbs not a stretch for a 175 pounder.

 

[Rico444]

It's been a long time since anyone got on Big Ben, he's been forgiven, I wonder why.
Stop throwing dirt on Mayweather because he's a young black man, who happens to one of the all time greats, while being filthy rich and one who speaks his mind. Pretty obvious why certain people throw so much dirt on Mayweather, showing your true colors. What rock have I been under? The one that's about to come crashing down on your head.....Lol

So I don't like a guy who hits women and it must be because I'm a racist? F#$k you you race-baiting piece of garbage. If you want to live in a dream world where Mayweather is a saint and everyone who hates him is a racist, feel free. Just know that nobody is going to take you seriously.

 

[CallMeBruce]

If Mayweather was just a comically rich cartoon character who showboated in the ring and flaunted his wealth in the most ludicrous ways, he'd be one of my very favorite athletes ever. But guys who beat up women are garbage and I can't respect them.

 

[Phillyconn]

So, you're conceding the point, then? Holyfield won his first title as a cruiserweight. He never won the light heavyweight title.

You are correct!

 

[Phillyconn]

So I don't like a guy who hits women and it must be because I'm a racist? F#$k you you race-baiting piece of garbage. If you want to live in a dream world where Mayweather is a saint and everyone who hates him is a racist, feel free. Just know that nobody is going to take you seriously.

No you choose which guys that have hit women that you don't like. Someone mentioned Lampley, did you have anything to say? No, do you hate him too?
I'm not saying he's a saint either, I am saying that everybody deserves a second chance, or else we would all be condemned. I'll bet that you don't give a duckk about those women, you just use that as an excuse to hate Floyd but are too much of a coward to admit it. Funny how you get so angry, i guess the truth hurts.

 

[Rico444]

No you choose which guys that have hit women that you don't like. Someone mentioned Lampley, did you have anything to say? No, do you hate him too?
I'm not saying he's a saint either, I am saying that everybody deserves a second chance, or else we would all be condemned. I'll bet that you don't give a duckk about those women, you just use that as an excuse to hate Floyd but are too much of a coward to admit it. Funny how you get so angry, i guess the truth hurts.

I don't like Big Ben, and I don't even know who Jim Lampley is. If he beat a woman then I'm sure I wouldn't like him either.

Anyway, it's pretty clear you're the racist here. You're going on ignore, have fun propping up this woman-beating loser.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

I'm not saying he's a saint either, I am saying that everybody deserves a second chance, or else we would all be condemned. I'll bet that you don't give a duckk about those women, you just use that as an excuse to hate Floyd but are too much of a coward to admit it. Funny how you get so angry, i guess the truth hurts.

This is clownish. It would be one thing if he had expressed any remorse whatsoever. This is not worth spending much time on, but you sound really, really foolish.

 

[Phillyconn]

You should be embarrassed for this post. Either you don't know the first thing about his track record or you're just a blind fan boy, but either way the "Floyd is the victim" thing is straight up embarrassing.

I'm not embarrassed at all. I'm not blind either, I know that Floyd hit women, which was wrong. But he paid the price for it. If the victims have forgiven him and moved on, then everyone else should too.I'm not looking up his track record either. But don't choose who to hate and who not to for the same offense, based on whatever reason. Why don't you look up all the athletes that hit women and hate them equally. Stop living on what has happened in the past. Men that hit women, have a problem. I've heard that men hit women as a way to control them, point is that there is a solvable problem there in most cases. Anger Management is a good start.

 

[Phillyconn]

This is clownish. It would be one thing if he had expressed any remorse whatsoever. This is not worth spending much time on, but you sound really, really foolish.

How do you what happened behind the scenes? What about other athletes, that raped women? Do you care? No, you don't, it's only because he's Floyd. How do you think you sound? Like a Bigot

 

[CallMeBruce]

How do you what happened behind the scenes? What about other athletes, that raped women? Do you care? No, you don't, it's only because he's Floyd. How do you think you sound? Like a Bigot

Please cite an example of anyone in this thread defending a rapist. Yes, there are a lot of dirtbag athletes. Floyd Mayweather is one of them, unfortunately.

 

[Phillyconn]

Please cite an example of anyone in this thread defending a rapist. Yes, there are a lot of dirtbag athletes. Floyd Mayweather is one of them, unfortunately.

I'm not saying anyone is defending a rapist or any other criminal, I'm saying I don't hear people attacking them the way that they attack Floyd. Never have either.

 

[mauconnfan]

I'm not embarrassed at all. I'm not blind either, I know that Floyd hit women, which was wrong. But he paid the price for it. If the victims have forgiven him and moved on, then everyone else should too.I'm not looking up his track record either. But don't choose who to hate and who not to for the same offense, based on whatever reason. Why don't you look up all the athletes that hit women and hate them equally. Stop living on what has happened in the past. Men that hit women, have a problem. I've heard that men hit women as a way to control them, point is that there is a solvable problem there in most cases. Anger Management is a good start.

Problem is it's "womEn" not " a womAn". He paid the price for a "woman" maybe but to repeat that act means you are as a person, no amount of money or ability to box makes you anything more than a steamy pile. It's hitting women for crying out loud that's cowardly.

 

[mauconnfan]

By the way their both thieves too. They stole from anyone who paid for that crap from what I hear but I honestly didn't see it. But I am sure it was no Ali-Frazier.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

I loved Quwi . I think he was about 5'6 or 5'7
He was a tough little guy . He gave Evander all he could handle.
The Knock that Archie was an old man when he lost to Rocky and Floyd is ridicules
He just hit his stride in his late thirties winning the Iightheavy title for the first time
In 1954
it was a tough division post war ,he was one of many in the crowd.
He then was knocked out by Rocky and Floyd in 1955 ,one might say at the peak of his career.
He retained the light heavyweight belt until stripped in the sixties
He fought Ali in 1963 yes he was over the hill when he fought Ali
By the way the Great Ezzard Charles although he actually never won the light heavyweight title is considered by Ring the greatest light heavy of all time he campaigned for years at that weight but the politics of Boxing kept him from winning it. He got his title shot as a heavy weight.
Moore was beaten by Charles a couple of times. At 175
Heavyweights of that era were typically 185-200lbs not a stretch for a 175 pounder.

Correction Moore lost three times to Charles the last by KO in the third round
Besides Charles ,Gene Tunney was primarily a light heavy who won the Heavy weight championship
Bob Fitzsimmons actually won the light heavyweight title after he lost the heavyweight title. He was actually a middleweight.
But Michael Spinks won the heavyweight championship while reigning as the light heavy weight champ. The first guy to do that since Burn in 1906 . He beat Larry Holmes who was 49-0 at the time. I had to look it up even though I saw the fight.
Roy Jones did out point a guy who was recognized ,but never considered a top champ.
Not a knock on Roy just a fact.

 

[CallMeBruce]

I'm not saying anyone is defending a rapist or any other criminal, I'm saying I don't hear people attacking them the way that they attack Floyd. Never have either.

Just so I have this: you're saying that you've never heard anyone criticize any criminals except for Floyd Mayweather. Is that right?

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

How do you what happened behind the scenes? What about other athletes, that raped women? Do you care? No, you don't, it's only because he's Floyd. How do you think you sound? Like a Bigot

Because there are police reports, medical reports, and mountains of available evidence for anyone with an inclination to actually be informed, rather than just spout off insults.

You've made it clear that you don't have even a minimal clue as to what you're talking about - I don't know where you come up with this idea that he's been forgiven by all of his various victims, but that's most definitely not the case. And the best you can come up with is to call me a "bigot"? You're a joke. Honestly, you admit that you don't know the story and then you call me a bigot? I'm embarrassed for you.

 

[superjohn]

How do you what happened behind the scenes? What about other athletes, that raped women? Do you care? No, you don't, it's only because he's Floyd. How do you think you sound? Like a Bigot

BigErn is letting you off the hook by saying you sound clownish and foolish, there are many harsher words that could have been used. You have said many things in this thread that are just plain ridiculous and calling people racist for not liking Mayweather is just plain offensive.

 

[Phillyconn]

Problem is it's "womEn" not " a womAn". He paid the price for a "woman" maybe but to repeat that act means you are as a person, no amount of money or ability to box makes you anything more than a steamy pile. It's hitting women for crying out loud that's cowardly.

Usually when people have problems, they will continue certain behaviors until they get help. I believe Floyd has. I guess your a Saint, never committed a sin?

 

[CallMeBruce]

Usually when people have problems, they will continue certain behaviors until they get help. I believe Floyd has. I guess your a Saint, never committed a sin?

I've never punched a woman in the face, that's for sure. Mayweather has punched several. Maybe if he'd gotten "help" after the first or second times, it might be forgivable, but when you're assaulting people on-and-off for nearly a decade, you're garbage, and that's that.

Also, other than his court-ordered domestic violence program, what "help" did he seek?

 

[Phillyconn]

BigErn is letting you off the hook by saying you sound clownish and foolish, there are many harsher words that could have been used. You have said many things in this thread that are just plain ridiculous and calling people racist for not liking Mayweather is just plain offensive.

Letting me off the hook. Really? I'm telling you how he sounds to me. Floyd abused women, yes, it's cowardly. It's time for a new start, it's over. Move on! Dislike him the rest of your life if you like.... He's still gonna be rich, he's still gonna be Champion and your still gonna hating.

 

[Phillyconn]

I've never punched a woman in the face, that's for sure. Mayweather has punched several. Maybe if he'd gotten "help" after the first or second times, it might be forgivable, but when you're assaulting people on-and-off for nearly a decade, you're garbage, and that's that.

Also, other than his court-ordered domestic violence program, what "help" did he seek?

Don't know, don't care. If he hasn't gotten help or learned his lesson, then he will go to jail, period. I've never hit a woman either. Who the hell has time to go looking into athletes backgrounds, digging up dirt and . Every negative story you hear about an athlete, what, are you going to launch an investigation , Damn do u work? Look up the good things that Floyd has done for people, stop dwelling on the negative. Tell me something positive.

 

[CallMeBruce]

Don't know, don't care. If he hasn't gotten help or learned his lesson, then he will go to jail, period. I've never hit a woman either. Who the hell has time to go looking into athletes backgrounds, digging up dirt and . Every negative story you hear about an athlete, what, are you going to launch an investigation , Damn do u work? Look up the good things that Floyd has done for people, stop dwelling on the negative. Tell me something positive.

You're a very weird person.

 

[The X Man]

Don't know, don't care. If he hasn't gotten help or learned his lesson, then he will go to jail, period. I've never hit a woman either. Who the hell has time to go looking into athletes backgrounds, digging up dirt and . Every negative story you hear about an athlete, what, are you going to launch an investigation , Damn do u work? Look up the good things that Floyd has done for people, stop dwelling on the negative. Tell me something positive.

He's willing to beat the women in front of his young son?