OT....AROD to be banned from baseball.

[hthusky74]

Lifetime ban or not, no way is A-Rod making the HOF.

That remains to be seen. Safe to say he can forget about a first ballot unless he is suspended for 2 years, comes back, and burns up the league for a few years. I was thinking, maybe the Hall of Fame should establish an annex in the basement for roid users, gamblers, etc. The could call it the "Unforgiven Hall of Shame"

 

[intlzncster]

Must have been on roids too like most of the other Americans Dominicans

Probably more accurate.

I'm willing to bet an enormous amount of money that Pedro wasn't on Roids. No idea about other PEDs of course. Roids induce muscle mass, even if you are not working out. Pedro was a fun-hating bean pole.

And as mentioned, no amount of drugs can induce an increased level of control. Pedro's control during those years was the best there has ever been, hands down. Privilege to watch. I remember during 98/99 when anyone who cared about baseball would not miss a Pedro start, fan of another team or no. It was electric.

 

[intlzncster]

Why would you be? I wouldn't be either....heck I wouldn't be surprised if Pedroia was!! I would be more surprised if less than 50% wasn't on it!

Sox fan and yeah, only thing I'd argue against is the little beanpole guys being on Roids (pedro). Could be any number of other PEDs, but not Roids.

 

[intlzncster]

That remains to be seen. Safe to say he can forget about a first ballot unless he is suspended for 2 years, comes back, and burns up the league for a few years. I was thinking, maybe the Hall of Fame should establish an annex in the basement for roid users, gamblers, etc. The could call it the "Unforgiven Hall of Shame"

90% of the hall cheated (completely made up, but you get the idea). George Brett corked it only once? Common. everyone tried to get an edge over the years, and the rules/regs were MUCH more lax back in the day. No media to catch you out either.

 

[intlzncster]

He was awful last year you're right.....how was Papi last post season? Just curious?

To sling a little redsox/yanks mud, the Yanks had the most juiced team in baseball when they were on their run. Probably steinbrenner sanctioned (not an insult - just a guy surveying the landscape and deciding to win). I know every team did it, but the number of guys on that team who've been 'caught' is impressive.

 

[mauconnfan]

Who has been on more world series champs? Just curious.

Jeter! Rivera!....want me to continue!

I don't like Arod, so please leave him out of it.....if wants to rub the 04 07 season we can talk about other players with rings too now can't we?

 

[mauconnfan]

To sling a little redsox/yanks mud, the Yanks had the most juiced team in baseball when they were on their run. Probably steinbrenner sanctioned (not an insult - just a guy surveying the landscape and deciding to win). I know every team did it, but the number of guys on that team who've been 'caught' is impressive.

More than Millar, Damon, Varitek, Papi, Youk??? You can't honestly believe there weren't as many on those Sox teams can you? That's funny.........

 

[huskiemaniac]

To sling a little redsox/yanks mud, the Yanks had the most juiced team in baseball when they were on their run. Probably steinbrenner sanctioned (not an insult - just a guy surveying the landscape and deciding to win). I know every team did it, but the number of guys on that team who've been 'caught' is impressive.

I'm sure that has nothing to do with the Mitchell report being done by someone on the Red Sox board of directors...or that the dealer was from the New York area...all coincidence I'm sure. It's amazing that Big Sloppy is almost never linked to PEDs either and that the story about Rem Dog's kid getting busted near Fenway with a boatload of steroids was never blasted all over the headlines...

 

[hthusky74]

Probably more accurate.

I'm willing to bet an enormous amount of money that Pedro wasn't on Roids. No idea about other PEDs of course. Roids induce muscle mass, even if you are not working out. Pedro was a bean pole.

And as mentioned, no amount of drugs can induce an increased level of control. Pedro's control during those years was the best there has ever been, hands down. Privilege to watch. I remember during 98/99 when anyone who cared about baseball would not miss a Pedro start, fan of another team or no. It was electric.

What about all the players he beaned? Roid rage perhaps?

 

[hthusky74]

More than Millar, Damon, Varitek, Papi, Youk??? You can't honestly believe there weren't as many on those Sox teams can you? That's funny.........

How could you leave off Manny?

 

[intlzncster]

What about all the players he beaned? Roid rage perhaps?

Pitched inside. He was also a nasty bugger. If he had anything, it was little man's syndrome. I don't rule out HGH of course.

Basically, if he was taking roids, he was somehow missing the injection point with the needle, because nothing was getting into his system. Again, no physical manifestations, which for Anabolic Steroids, are almost a guarantee.

 

[intlzncster]

I'm sure that has nothing to do with the Mitchell report being done by someone on the Red Sox board of directors...or that the dealer was from the New York area...all coincidence I'm sure. It's amazing that Big Sloppy is almost never linked to PEDs either and that the story about Rem Dog's kid getting busted near Fenway with a boatload of steroids was never blasted all over the headlines...

Papi was linked. He was supposedly on the list. Did you miss that whole bruhaha?

And it'd probably have more to do with Brian McNamee than anything. Clemens likely performed a whole lot of introductions during his tenure.

 

[intlzncster]

More than Millar, Damon, Varitek, Papi, Youk??? You can't honestly believe there weren't as many on those Sox teams can you? That's funny.........

Um, anyone who's not a yankee fan (and exclude Sox fans if you must) will tell you that the Yanks are baseballs version of the 70s Steelers. Even the batboys were juicing. Wouldn't be surprised if 'ol Georgey was running around the clubhouse shooting Anabolics into guy's asses. chuckle....

 

[jibsey]

I'm sure that has nothing to do with the Mitchell report being done by someone on the Red Sox board of directors...or that the dealer was from the New York area...all coincidence I'm sure. It's amazing that Big Sloppy is almost never linked to PEDs either and that the story about Rem Dog's kid getting busted near Fenway with a boatload of steroids was never blasted all over the headlines...

Papi's bat 2 years ago was slower than molasses, in the meantime he ROID destroyed a dugout phone recently, but he's getting better with age as many Dominicans do. Arod is dirty and must go but there are probably a boatload more who are skating right now.

 

[intlzncster]

Papi's bat 2 years ago was slower than molasses, in the meantime he ROID destroyed a dugout phone recently, but he's getting better with age as many Dominicans do. Arod is dirty and must go but there are probably a boatload more who are skating right now.

He was also injured and recovering from injury (wrist and knee), but that probably didn't slow his bat any.

Probably took PEDs back in the day. No idea now. Whatever they can get away with. He does 'play' Dan Hurley, and you can go into your 40s from that spot.

These guys are defo PED users IMO:

(I'd put the most money on these guys using)
Albert Pujols
Jose Batista
Mike Trout

(next up)
Miguel Cabrera
Votto
Davis
Harper


It's my opinion that the younger guys are most likely doing it. They come up these days seeing that is what you have to do to be great. High schoolers all over the shop are taking everything they can get.

 

[mauconnfan]

How could you leave off Manny?

Obvious!! But I did forget..........thanks!

 

[mauconnfan]

Um, anyone who's not a yankee fan (and exclude Sox fans if you must) will tell you that the Yanks are baseballs version of the 70s Steelers. Even the batboys were juicing. Wouldn't be surprised if 'ol Georgey was running around the clubhouse shooting Anabolics into guy's asses. chuckle....

Can you name more than the Sox probably had in 04 and 07?? I mean yeah the Yanks had their share, but not more than those crazy Sox teams who won!

 

[mauconnfan]

He was also injured and recovering from injury (wrist and knee), but that probably didn't slow his bat any.

Probably took PEDs back in the day. No idea now. Whatever they can get away with. He does 'play' Dan Hurley, and you can go into your 40s from that spot.

These guys are defo PED users IMO:

(I'd put the most money on these guys using)
Albert Pujols
Jose Batista
Mike Trout

(next up)
Miguel Cabrera
Votto
Davis
Harper


It's my opinion that the younger guys are most likely doing it. They come up these days seeing that is what you have to do to be great. High schoolers all over the shop are taking everything they can get.

I mean seriously I agree with everything you say and I get you want to protect Papi but he could be the biggest fraud of all of them. Only way he keeps his job is to hit, keep his bat speed as he doesn't own a glove. And as mentioned above his bat speed was GONE, history. He was fine, healthy 2 years in a row he suddenly found it again at 35, 36 despite not being able to catch up to an 88MPH fastball.........you have to be a Sox fan to say he's clean, really!!

 

[BoatShow]

I mean seriously I agree with everything you say and I get you want to protect Papi but he could be the biggest fraud of all of them. Only way he keeps his job is to hit, keep his bat speed as he doesn't own a glove. And as mentioned above his bat speed was GONE, history. He was fine, healthy 2 years in a row he suddenly found it again at 35, 36 despite not being able to catch up to an 88MPH fastball.........you have to be a Sox fan to say he's clean, really!!

He had some corrective vision surgery a couple years ago and really started coming around after that. IDK

 

[mauconnfan]

He had some corrective vision surgery a couple years ago and really started coming around after that. IDK

LOL.......those eyes speed up the bat!!

 

[intlzncster]

I mean seriously I agree with everything you say and I get you want to protect Papi but he could be the biggest fraud of all of them. Only way he keeps his job is to hit, keep his bat speed as he doesn't own a glove. And as mentioned above his bat speed was GONE, history. He was fine, healthy 2 years in a row he suddenly found it again at 35, 36 despite not being able to catch up to an 88MPH fastball.........you have to be a Sox fan to say he's clean, really!!

Not protecting Papi. He made his own bed when he showed up on the list. Never said he was clean. But, he was not remotely fine. To say his bat speed was a result of not doping, then going back on the dope again? Do you get how ridiculous that sounds? Honestly, that sounds stupid to me. If he wasn't getting caught with harder testing, why would he have bother coming off in the first place?

Also, you might as well draw that out to everyone. When T Brady came back from getting his knee demolished, he wasn't the same the next year. Peyton with his neck too. But then they must have doped cause they were as good as new the following year.

Papi had wrist surgery. For a hitter, that's worse than an ACL. Equivalent to Tommy John. Two year grace period is pretty normal. Add to that the knee and foot issues, and I'm surprised he could even face a major league pitcher. His stats dropped in 08-09 and then went back to normal.

 

[jleves]

Am I the only one who thinks PEDs should not only be legal but encouraged? If I'm kicking in my dollars by buying things or going to games to pay these guys millions per year, I want them to be as big, strong and fast as possible. I want to see tanks smashing each other on the O line. I want to see baseballs regularly flying 500 feet. I want to see backboards getting smashed. I want to see guys reaching a 600 yard par 5 with a drive and a nine iron. I don't care how small their nards get. I just want to get the most for my advertising dollar. What's next - banning vitamins because they give a competitive advantage? Let em juice I say.

 

[intlzncster]

Am I the only one who thinks PEDs should not only be legal but encouraged? If I'm kicking in my dollars by buying things or going to games to pay these guys millions per year, I want them to be as big, strong and fast as possible. I want to see tanks smashing each other on the O line. I want to see baseballs regularly flying 500 feet. I want to see backboards getting smashed. I want to see guys reaching a 600 yard par 5 with a drive and a nine iron. I don't care how small their nards get. I just want to get the most for my advertising dollar. What's next - banning vitamins because they give a competitive advantage? Let em juice I say.

Nope, there's a couple of us on this thread. Buried somewhere in there. Adds to the entertainment value (see '98), also, eliminates any 'unfair' advantage.

 

[Scoe]

Am I the only one who thinks PEDs should not only be legal but encouraged? If I'm kicking in my dollars by buying things or going to games to pay these guys millions per year, I want them to be as big, strong and fast as possible. I want to see tanks smashing each other on the O line. I want to see baseballs regularly flying 500 feet. I want to see backboards getting smashed. I want to see guys reaching a 600 yard par 5 with a drive and a nine iron. I don't care how small their nards get. I just want to get the most for my advertising dollar. What's next - banning vitamins because they give a competitive advantage? Let em juice I say.

Isnt driving performance enhancing so we can cheat and not have to walk or bike across town.

 

[hthusky74]

Am I the only one who thinks PEDs should not only be legal but encouraged? If I'm kicking in my dollars by buying things or going to games to pay these guys millions per year, I want them to be as big, strong and fast as possible. I want to see tanks smashing each other on the O line. I want to see baseballs regularly flying 500 feet. I want to see backboards getting smashed. I want to see guys reaching a 600 yard par 5 with a drive and a nine iron. I don't care how small their nards get. I just want to get the most for my advertising dollar. What's next - banning vitamins because they give a competitive advantage? Let em juice I say.

If that is what you want, just buy a video game.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Not protecting Papi. He made his own bed when he showed up on the list. Never said he was clean.

Just to be clear here, the fact that he purportedly showed up on the infamous "list" of players who supposedly tested positive for some unidentified substance back in 2003 hardly demonstrates that Ortiz was juicing. First of all, the number of guys who were supposedly on this list far exceeded the number of positive specimens. The list is sealed so no one on it has ever been told what they supposedly tested positive for. Also, MLB has admitted that any number of over the counter supplements you can buy at GNC could have triggered a positive result back in 2003, so this is not necessarily even steroids we're talking about. And that doesn't even get into all the questions that came up in '09 when this story broke about the integrity of the testing facility, their interpretation of the data, and their handling of it.

As far as Ortiz goes, it's a far cry from Canseco and McGuire jabbing each other in the ass (with needles).

 

[intlzncster]

Just to be clear here, the fact that he purportedly showed up on the infamous "list" of players who supposedly tested positive for some unidentified substance back in 2003 hardly demonstrates that Ortiz was juicing. First of all, the number of guys who were supposedly on this list far exceeded the number of positive specimens. The list is sealed so no one on it has ever been told what they supposedly tested positive for. Also, MLB has admitted that any number of over the counter supplements you can buy at GNC could have triggered a positive result back in 2003, so this is not necessarily even steroids we're talking about. And that doesn't even get into all the questions that came up in '09 when this story broke about the integrity of the testing facility, their interpretation of the data, and their handling of it.
As far as Ortiz goes, it's a far cry from Canseco and McGuire jabbing each other in the ass (with needles).

All very true, but it's pretty damn hard to get Yankees fans to swallow any of that stuff mid argument, facts not withstanding. Even my injury argument doesn't seem to be swaying any fence sitters.

 

[mauconnfan]

Just to be clear here, the fact that he purportedly showed up on the infamous "list" of players who supposedly tested positive for some unidentified substance back in 2003 hardly demonstrates that Ortiz was juicing. First of all, the number of guys who were supposedly on this list far exceeded the number of positive specimens. The list is sealed so no one on it has ever been told what they supposedly tested positive for. Also, MLB has admitted that any number of over the counter supplements you can buy at GNC could have triggered a positive result back in 2003, so this is not necessarily even steroids we're talking about. And that doesn't even get into all the questions that came up in '09 when this story broke about the integrity of the testing facility, their interpretation of the data, and their handling of it.

As far as Ortiz goes, it's a far cry from Canseco and McGuire jabbing each other in the ass (with needles).

And you know this how??

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

And you know this how??

I read?

This isn't exactly inside information.

 

[tentoes4rings]

Wow, some real myopic idiots in this thread. As pointed out, Pedro was a beanpole with skinny little legs. What he accomplished during the steroid era was nothing short of amazing. Saying he was on roids is baseless and irresponsible. And with 20 hrs 70% through the season you guys are convinced Papi is on roids because he's learned to use the whole field better and is hitting .325. I've never accused Paul O'Neill but if a smashed phone implicates Papi, what did the hundreds of Gatorade coolers O'Neill smashed up say about his chances of being clean?