OT....AROD to be banned from baseball.

[mauconnfan]

The offer is probably less than he gets from the Yanks in one week.

He's not going to end up with much and probably will still get his little pocket change from the Rangers...............let's hear about the mess baseball is!!!

 

[mauconnfan]

Some Met's fan wrote this on another website, but I found it funny and apropos here:

Still no word on what happens with the remaining money after that 2014 season. I’m sure the Yankees will find a way out of it. Just absolutely unbelievable that the one time Major League Baseball decides to show a pair of balls and literally make up their own rules, the Yankees benefit.

You know who the biggest loser is in all of this? The Rangers. Still owe him $40 million in deferred money no matter what happens. Solid contract, Texas!

Only a**wipes would think they actually benefit.......they suck now thanks to moves like him......they have plenty of money!!

 

[Rico444]

Only a**wipes would think they actually benefit.......they suck now thanks to moves like him......they have plenty of money!!

They absolutely benefit. They suck now thanks to moves like him, yeah, but that's their own fault. Suspending A-Rod saves them $34 million over the next 2 seasons, during a time where they're trying to get under the luxury tax number. Of course they benefit.

 

[mauconnfan]

They absolutely benefit. They suck now thanks to moves like him, yeah, but that's their own fault. Suspending A-Rod saves them $34 million over the next 2 seasons, during a time where they're trying to get under the luxury tax number. Of course they benefit.

Yeah sure they get to keep Cano now......no thanks......!! Go get another roid dude...............maybe that's how they benefit...........but 17M a year isn't a lot any more when you have a bunch of guys with walkers running around the bases!

 

[intlzncster]

Only a**wipes would think they actually benefit.......they suck now thanks to moves like him......they have plenty of money!!

"asswipes" is kinda 'piling it on' for Mets fans these days, no?

Yanks got crushed by New Steinbrenner not learning the lessons of the father. Get out of the way and let Cashman do his job.

 

[mauconnfan]

"asswipes" is kinda 'piling it on' for Mets fans these days, no?

Yanks got crushed by New Steinbrenner not learning the lessons of the father. Get out of the way and let Cashman do his job.

Yeah I'll leave Deep out of this one though......LOL

 

[Rico444]

At least we have Harvey.

 

[mauconnfan]

At least we have Harvey.

Don't forget Ike Davis.........sorry lol

 

[huskiemaniac]

Papi was linked. He was supposedly on the list. Did you miss that whole bruhaha?

And it'd probably have more to do with Brian McNamee than anything. Clemens likely performed a whole lot of introductions during his tenure.

Yes, of course...I'm sorry, I meant since it was first reported and papi was opening his own investigation...during a game the other day they were discussing Ortiz and the Hall...the announcers said the only thing that would keep him out is the old argument...should a DH get in or not! Not a single thing about PEDs...

 

[Danzz]

Arod gets a lot more hate than he deserves. The drug thing is hardly unique. It has more to do with not hitting in the clutch if fans were really honest with themselves.

 

[Waquoit]

I feel sorry for ARod. That loser Bud Selig is leading a lynch mob. He ought to resign first.

 

[SubbaBub]

But not all. Pedro had the advantage of four or five plus pitches he could locate, not just a fastball. And even with that, he was pretty much washed up at 34. As was Guidry, who was same height and a few pounds thinner. Whitey Ford was 5'10/178. He did all right for himself.

And Barry Bonds was a HOFer before he ever took PEDs. That Pedro was a great pitcher is irrelevant. His peak and the duration of that peak when you factor in his frame and the power he generated all point to PED use when you consider the environment at the time. It won't convict him in a court, but it doesn't pass the smell test, just as it doesn't for anyone who hit more than 40 hrs since 1992. Fair or not, that's the case.

Arod is about as guilty as it gets and the Yankees should be able to sue for breach if his contract allows that. MLB's attempt to do an end around on the CBA will blowup in their face. I doubt they follow through.

My understanding of the CBA is he gets 50 games for drug use plus a reasonable suspension for the equivalent of conduct unbecoming which if history is any guide works out to 5-15 more games subject to appeal. Anymore and MLB loses.

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[intlzncster]

Arod gets a lot more hate than he deserves. The drug thing is hardly unique. It has more to do with not hitting in the clutch if fans were really honest with themselves.

Nope, it has to do with religiously lying through his teeth, acting sanctimonious, and lacking any shred of genuineness whatsoever. Being an overall too.

Nobody gives a duck how he hits.

 

[intlzncster]

And Barry Bonds was a HOFer before he ever took PEDs. That Pedro was a great pitcher is irrelevant. His peak and the duration of that peak when you factor in his frame and the power he generated all point to PED use when you consider the environment at the time. It won't convict him in a court, but it doesn't pass the smell test, just as it doesn't for anyone who hit more than 40 hrs since 1992. Fair or not, that's the case.

Just so we are clear, Pedro had the same frame and power his entire career, if power/frame is your metric. So from late 80s (minors) and early 1990s through the 2000s is the potential steroid era then.

I just want to make sure that guys like Will Clark, Glen Davis, McGriff, Ricky Henderson, Gaetti, Joe Carter, Eddie Murry, Kevin Mitchell, Ryne Sandburg, Rob Deer, Andre Dawson etc. ad nauseum are all suspected steroid users. They at least need to be part of the conversation if we open up the metrics.

Also this inadvertently implies that no one is more talented than anyone else, and everyone should play virtually the same in some small narrow window.

 

[hthusky74]

I feel sorry for ARod. That loser Bud Selig is leading a lynch mob. He ought to resign first.

He's just doing it because he's Hispanic? What are you saying? This guy used, he lied, he obstructed the investigation, how much more do you want?

 

[SubbaBub]

Just so we are clear, Pedro had the same frame and power his entire career, if power/frame is your metric. So from late 80s (minors) and early 1990s through the 2000s is the potential steroid era then.

I just want to make sure that guys like Will Clark, Glen Davis, McGriff, Ricky Henderson, Gaetti, Joe Carter, Eddie Murry, Kevin Mitchell, Ryne Sandburg, Rob Deer, Andre Dawson etc. ad nauseum are all suspected steroid users. They at least need to be part of the conversation if we open up the metrics.

Also this inadvertently implies that no one is more talented than anyone else, and everyone should play virtually the same in some small narrow window.

So 20+ years of throwing that kind of heat with no discernible drop off. Not suspicious at all. 13 years is an uncommonly long life for a common garden rat, Lance Armstrong. (Apologies for the bad Harry Potter reference)

There are many classes of PEDs not all cause you to Hulk-up. For a pitcher, recovery from stretched or inflamed ligaments or tendons, increased stamina, and a couple extra MPH's would make a 5 time all star whose career may have been cut short into one of the all time greats. Unless someone has Clemens like evidence, Pedro will suffer no more than the base "the whole era was tainted" scrutiny of his career, which is all I'm doing.

That said, I've seen this movie too many times. If you think they were doping, they probably were.

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[progrocks]

Willie Mays used amphetamines. I think we should persecute him too!!!

 

[gwhuskyfan]

He's just doing it because he's Hispanic? What are you saying? This guy used, he lied, he obstructed the investigation, how much more do you want?

Have you ever seen A-Rod fail a drug test?

 

[Dove]

Everyone in the 70s and 80s chomped greenies.

 

[storrsroars]

Just so we are clear, Pedro had the same frame and power his entire career, if power/frame is your metric. So from late 80s (minors) and early 1990s through the 2000s is the potential steroid era then.

I just want to make sure that guys like Will Clark, Glen Davis, McGriff, Ricky Henderson, Gaetti, Joe Carter, Eddie Murry, Kevin Mitchell, Ryne Sandburg, Rob Deer, Andre Dawson etc. ad nauseum are all suspected steroid users. They at least need to be part of the conversation if we open up the metrics.

Also this inadvertently implies that no one is more talented than anyone else, and everyone should play virtually the same in some small narrow window.

If we're going by the parameters set by SubbaBub to include Pedro, then you'd also need to include Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, R. Johnson, Schilling, Wells, K. Brown, Mussina and others. Think how often Maddux was injured. Not often. Therefore he MUST have used, right?

 

[intlzncster]

So 20+ years of throwing that kind of heat with no discernible drop off. Not suspicious at all. 13 years is an uncommonly long life for a common garden rat, Lance Armstrong. (Apologies for the bad Harry Potter reference)

There are many classes of PEDs not all cause you to Hulk-up. For a pitcher, recovery from stretched or inflamed ligaments or tendons, increased stamina, and a couple extra MPH's would make a 5 time all star whose career may have been cut short into one of the all time greats. Unless someone has Clemens like evidence, Pedro will suffer no more than the base "the whole era was tainted" scrutiny of his career, which is all I'm doing.

That said, I've seen this movie too many times. If you think they were doping, they probably were.

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20+years? It's pretty well established that Pedro lost his gas for the last 6 years or so of his career. He learned to pitch an entirely different way. He could touch 100 in his youth. Couldn't get near it post 34 or so. He was a 91 guy when he retired. Not sure what you were watching.

I guess it's safe to say that 90+% were doping? So any success they had was just as impressive, as most everyone was equal.

 

[intlzncster]

Willie Mays used amphetamines. I think we should persecute him too!!!

Pretty sure Babe Ruth used horse steroids as well. Baseball players have 'cheated' since the dawn of time. Nothing is tainted, because that's the game! Half of it is trying to figure out how to bend/break the rules.

 

[intlzncster]

If we're going by the parameters set by SubbaBub to include Pedro, then you'd also need to include Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, R. Johnson, Schilling, Wells, K. Brown, Mussina and others. Think how often Maddux was injured. Not often. Therefore he MUST have used, right?

Yeah, I'd put Maddox over Pedro using any day of the week.

 

[SubbaBub]

If we're going by the parameters set by SubbaBub to include Pedro, then you'd also need to include Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, R. Johnson, Schilling, Wells, K. Brown, Mussina and others. Think how often Maddux was injured. Not often. Therefore he MUST have used, right?

I'm sure you could pick out a bunch of guys. But since you asked. No to Maddux Glavine Mussina - not really power pitchers and none showed a second peak to there careers. Benefited more from the strike zone of the day than PEDs could ever help.

No to Brown. Injured as one might expect from a guy who bursts on the scene.

No to Schilling, his career was more up and down than you might expect and if he were, with his big mouth someone would have Clemens-ed him by now.

No to Wells, big fat guy with good curve ball. Also suffered from gout. Not exactly a PED poster child.

With leaves Johnson, of anyone of your list he fits most, struggled early dominant to a very advanced age. But at 6'11 has the frame to justify his longevity. I'll say no, but wouldn't be Shocked.

20+years? It's pretty well established that Pedro lost his gas for the last 6 years or so of his career. He learned to pitch an entirely different way. He could touch 100 in his youth. Couldn't get near it post 34 or so. He was a 91 guy when he retired. Not sure what you were watching.

I guess it's safe to say that 90+% were doping? So any success they had was just as impressive, as most everyone was equal.

14+ years then???? Same point.

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[intlzncster]

I'm sure you could pick out a bunch of guys. But since you asked. No to Maddux Glavine Mussina - not really power pitchers and none showed a second peak to there careers. Benefited more from the strike zone of the day than PEDs could ever help.

Pedro never showed a second peak. Power has nothing to do with most PEDs, outside of Roids (and then, you've got to show the muscle mass a la McGwire/Sosa/Bonds et al). If you take anabolic steroids, you will gain more muscle mass just sitting on the couch, so the physical effects are important. Doesn't necessarily mean you are much stronger though (without training).

It's recovery that's important. So the most dependable guys are juicing somehow. By that standard, Ripken, Maddux, no question. They are far more suspect than power pitchers who break down later in their career (a la Pedro).

Pedro was the second best strike zone pitcher of his day, behind only Maddux. So that's another feather in his cap.

No to Wells, big fat guy with good curve ball. Also suffered from gout. Not exactly a PED poster child.

So wait, a big fat guy is less likely to break down? What about joints? Bigger guys suffer from more joint issues, which the recovery aspect can help tremendously. And it's not uncommon to use steroids to treat gout.

And Pedro had more stuff than anyone in living memory (of that time). Why doesn't he.

14+ years then???? Same point.

That's a fairly normal career arc for one who started young. A pitcher breaking down at 34+. Isn't that how it's supposed to go?
It seems you are using an abnormal standard for Pedro as opposed to other pitchers.