OT....AROD to be banned from baseball.

[intlzncster]

on AROD - heard he can make millions on a book - multi, more than coming back.

If I were him I would take care of baseball right now - write that book, tell them how guys mask the , tell them who he knows was part of the scam which has ruined baseball and let's get back to SS's who hit .235 but are slick fielders. Power hitters hammering out 28-35 HR's a year with 100-110 RBI and good hitters finding gaps instead of hitting off the end of the bat 440 feet...........

Yeah okay.........myopic my a* ........you're ignorant. I'm a Yankee fan, Paul ONeill is a potential candidate I agree. Cano is more than likely "doing something" as the word goes around. Papi smashing a phone is not why it's the rebirth of lost bat speed. Screw the "wrist injury" the guy couldn't catch up to anything a few years back and then magically he's better than ever! Opposite field hitting was always pretty good for Papi so don't throw that out there.........I'm guessing you also are naive enough to think Chris Davis's jaw was always that square and he is suddenly Barry Bonds because he works out so hard? And everyone always knew Encarnacion was always worthy of Roger Maris numbers?

By the way on Pedro, I doubt it although he and Papi were pretty tight in 2003, but let's not talk about wiry and this stuff. Palmiero never got any bigger and quite honestly Braun never looked like a candidate all that much either. But maybe you also believe that the FedEx guy tainted the package????

Seriously? Any player with a wrist injury sees marked reduction in bat speed and stats for 1-2 years. That's like saying a player with an ACL who doesn't run exactly as before must have been juicing. Regardless of his potential juicing, that's just flat out wrong. It's kinda dumb. (his stats are pretty normal right now historically)

And like I said, its conceivable Pedro was on something. But it wasn't roids. Also again, you can't juice location. And that was everything.

 

[intlzncster]

No baseball player is above suspicion at this point, and I can't blame them with the millions at stake. According to the media, that is why players are so pissed about this stuff. The thing is, I bet at least a few players who are out there telling the media how pissed they are actually using.

So far Braun and Palmeiro are the most obvious. Plenty more like them I'm sure.

 

[intlzncster]

on AROD - heard he can make millions on a book - multi, more than coming back.

If I were him I would take care of baseball right now - write that book, tell them how guys mask the , tell them who he knows was part of the scam which has ruined baseball and let's get back to SS's who hit .235 but are slick fielders. Power hitters hammering out 28-35 HR's a year with 100-110 RBI and good hitters finding gaps instead of hitting off the end of the bat 440 feet...........

ARod could do baseball justice right now!

Hahaha. This is Arod we are talking about! We think AHernandez is delusional, Arod is nonpareil in that dept. He has truly jumped the shark.

"I think it's pretty self-explanatory," he said. "I think that's the pink elephant in the room.
"I think we all agree that we want to get rid of PEDs -- that's a must. I think all the players, we feel that way.
"But when all this stuff is going on in the background, and people are finding creative ways to cancel your contract and stuff like that, I think that's concerning for me, it's concerning for the present and should be concerning for future players as well. There is a process . . . and I'm going to keep fighting."

I'm of the opinion that the Yankees should get some financial relief, maybe not all though. It should punish the player more than the team.

 

[hthusky74]

Wow, some real myopic idiots in this thread. As pointed out, Pedro was a beanpole with skinny little legs. What he accomplished during the steroid era was nothing short of amazing. Saying he was on roids is baseless and irresponsible. And with 20 hrs 70% through the season you guys are convinced Papi is on roids because he's learned to use the whole field better and is hitting .325. I've never accused Paul O'Neill but if a smashed phone implicates Papi, what did the hundreds of Gatorade coolers O'Neill smashed up say about his chances of being clean?

If you saw Papi with the Bristol Rock Cats and Minnesota, and then saw him in Boston, there was a change and it wasn't just the left field wall.

 

[hthusky74]

Wow, some real myopic idiots in this thread. As pointed out, Pedro was a beanpole with skinny little legs. What he accomplished during the steroid era was nothing short of amazing. Saying he was on roids is baseless and irresponsible. And with 20 hrs 70% through the season you guys are convinced Papi is on roids because he's learned to use the whole field better and is hitting .325. I've never accused Paul O'Neill but if a smashed phone implicates Papi, what did the hundreds of Gatorade coolers O'Neill smashed up say about his chances of being clean?

Okay, maybe he was on amphetamines or something else. Maybe he was on nothing at all. If he was a beanpole with skinny little legs, where did he get the strength to pitch as well as he did? I guess he just had a good arm. Most pitchers with his build throw their arms out early in their careers.

 

[hthusky74]

on AROD - heard he can make millions on a book - multi, more than coming back.

If I were him I would take care of baseball right now - write that book, tell them how guys mask the , tell them who he knows was part of the scam which has ruined baseball and let's get back to SS's who hit .235 but are slick fielders. Power hitters hammering out 28-35 HR's a year with 100-110 RBI and good hitters finding gaps instead of hitting off the end of the bat 440 feet...........

ARod could do baseball justice right now!

If Arod is suspended for two years, or if he is suspended for life, but gets the arbitrator to lessen it to two years. He'll get nothing for two years. Hoewever, when he returns there will be two years remaining on his contract and will receive $40-50 for those two years combined. I'd say ARod isn't writing a book, but is doing everything he can to reduce the length of any suspension so he can retire in style.

 

[mauconnfan]

Okay, maybe he was on amphetamines or something else. Maybe he was on nothing at all. If he was a beanpole with skinny little legs, where did he get the strength to pitch as well as he did? I guess he just had a good arm. Most pitchers with his build throw their arms out early in their careers.

Comparison would be the little guy in SF.........looks like he lost it or stopped taking something?

 

[2north]

And like I said, its conceivable Pedro was on something. But it wasn't roids. Also again, you can't juice location. And that was everything.

What's the difference if it was roids or hgh or whatever? It's highly likely that he was on something just like every other MLB player during that era.

And yes you can juice location through recovery, sight, stamina, etc etc.

 

[intlzncster]

What's the difference if it was roids or hgh or whatever? It's highly likely that he was on something just like every other MLB player during that era.

And yes you can juice location through recovery, sight, stamina, etc etc.

Anabolic steroids give direct muscle mass growth, the others don't...they are more recovery oriented. The others wouldn't contribute to his power in the same fashion, although they would allow someone to perform at their peak more often.

And dude, you cannot juice location (which was the only one of those I included in my statement above). That's an unfounded statement. Show me the data. Location has everything to do with mechanics and mentality. It doesn't help you repeat your mechanics. Where did you get that idea?

 

[intlzncster]

Okay, maybe he was on amphetamines or something else. Maybe he was on nothing at all. If he was a beanpole with skinny little legs, where did he get the strength to pitch as well as he did? I guess he just had a good arm. Most pitchers with his build throw their arms out early in their careers.

He had a complete whipsaw motion, creating more torque than normal, just like Koufax, just like Strasburg. There's a reason they all broke down early. The body can't handle it.

They actually try to coach that out of guys in the minors. That has had the unintended effecct of gnikcvf up a bunch of young guys deliveries.

 

[intlzncster]

Comparison would be the little guy in SF.........looks like he lost it or stopped taking something?

And see, this discounts all variation in athletics. So no one deviates whatsoever from their performance? No one gets better? No one gets worse? Do we even need to play the games then?

 

[intlzncster]

If you saw Papi with the Bristol Rock Cats and Minnesota, and then saw him in Boston, there was a change and it wasn't just the left field wall.

So wait, he can't improve as a player? Everyone is static throughout their career? I don't get this logic that when a guy was young, that's who he is as a player. It's not like Ortiz when from a 10 home run guy to a 50 homer guy in one year at the age of 35.

The red sox signed him from Minny because they considered him a very dangerous hitter who would prosper in a hitter's park. They were right. The twins bungled Ortiz.

 

[mauconnfan]

And see, this discounts all variation in athletics. So no one deviates whatsoever from their performance? No one gets better? No one gets worse? Do we even need to play the games then?

You can look at it any way you wish......when people start cheating like they have since the 90's now then I tend to look for obvious patterns. And there are may, not all because of PED's I'm sure but for me the people who suddenly improve dramatically are guilty until proven innocent........those who suddenly are tested more often and have spiraled down or broken down are the same to me............again may not be right but that's what baseball has allowed to happen........

 

[intlzncster]

You can look at it any way you wish......when people start cheating like they have since the 90's now then I tend to look for obvious patterns. And there are may, not all because of PED's I'm sure but for me the people who suddenly improve dramatically are guilty until proven innocent........those who suddenly are tested more often and have spiraled down or broken down are the same to me............again may not be right but that's what baseball has allowed to happen........

I won't disagree that everyone is guilty by association. I've used the cliche before, but the bed's been made, and now they've got to sleep in it.

At the same time. Almost all players improve over time, good ones more than most, especially in baseball where experience and opportunity is everything.

Also, guys who break down on a normal schedule, a la Pedro, are more normal in my estimation than anyone else. Every single pitcher breaks down over time, except of course the amazingly bionic Colon, Clemens, Pettite, etc...

 

[mauconnfan]

So wait, he can't improve as a player? Everyone is static throughout their career? I don't get this logic that when a guy was young, that's who he is as a player. It's not like Ortiz when from a 10 home run guy to a 50 homer guy in one year at the age of 35.

The red sox signed him from Minny because they considered him a very dangerous hitter who would prosper in a hitter's park. They were right. The twins bungled Ortiz.

"Twins bungled Ortiz"?? hahaha............guess again. Try this on:

Minnesota

1998 - 9/46
2000- 10/63
2001 - 18/48
2002 - 20/75...................some had less AB's but numbers are well below average for a "power hitter" in his prime of youth and also for a guy playing home games with a Heft Bag 290 feet away in right.......

Okay now put him with Manny and the Sox:

2003 - 31/101
2004 - 41/139......now he's learning how Manny did it
2005 - 47/148
2006 - 54/137


Yeah he improved that much from Minnesota??!!..........hey I get your Red Sox fans and how dare you call any of those guys cheaters but look at that closely and then relaize Manny and he were great friends!

GUILTY

 

[intlzncster]

"Twins bungled Ortiz"?? hahaha............guess again. Try this on:

Minnesota

1998 - 9/46
2000- 10/63
2001 - 18/48
2002 - 20/75...................some had less AB's but numbers are well below average for a "power hitter" in his prime of youth and also for a guy playing home games with a Heft Bag 290 feet away in right.......

Okay now put him with Manny and the Sox:

2003 - 31/101
2004 - 41/139......now he's learning how Manny did it
2005 - 47/148
2006 - 54/137


Yeah he improved that much from Minnesota??!!..........hey I get your Red Sox fans and how dare you call any of those guys cheaters but look at that closely and then relaize Manny and he were great friends!

GUILTY

The twins bungled Ortiz because they severed ties instead of offering arbitration, to the Sox' great benefit. It would have cost the Twins nothing.

Also, they coached him poorly. Tried to teach him small ball. Like trying to change a pitchers delivery. Got to let the big dog eat. (he was hurt a bunch too)

"Ortiz's first manager was Tom Kelly, who has always explained that the Twins were trying to develop Ortiz into a solid major league hitter first. The implication was that Ortiz would be able to swing a bit more freely after he got the basics down. But Ortiz, a big guy, felt restricted.

"My first exhibition game here (with Boston), I came up with a runner on second and no outs," Ortiz said during that same interview. "I'm thinking, 'I've got to get the runner over.' "

Another interesting article on the subject. Not as dramatic a rise in stats upon first blush.

And also, he's still putting up numbers. Other guys are failing tests (braun/colon/cabrera). He's not. Even the guy he 'learned from', failed multiple tests (Manny). Maybe Ortiz is smarter than everyone else.

And finally, when you hit behind Manny, your stats improve tremendously. Anyones numbers go up.

Look at Ortiz's HR progression compared to someone like Jose Bautista. Baustista's spike is much more dramatic.

 

[mauconnfan]

The twins bungled Ortiz because they severed ties instead of offering arbitration, to the Sox' great benefit. It would have cost the Twins nothing.

Also, they coached him poorly. Tried to teach him small ball. Like trying to change a pitchers delivery. Got to let the big dog eat. (he was hurt a bunch too)

"Ortiz's first manager was Tom Kelly, who has always explained that the Twins were trying to develop Ortiz into a solid major league hitter first. The implication was that Ortiz would be able to swing a bit more freely after he got the basics down. But Ortiz, a big guy, felt restricted.

"My first exhibition game here (with Boston), I came up with a runner on second and no outs," Ortiz said during that same interview. "I'm thinking, 'I've got to get the runner over.' "

Another interesting article on the subject. Not as dramatic a rise in stats upon first blush.

And also, he's still putting up numbers. Other guys are failing tests (braun/colon/cabrera). He's not. Even the guy he 'learned from', failed multiple tests (Manny). Maybe Ortiz is smarter than everyone else.

And finally, when you hit behind Manny, your stats improve tremendously. Anyones numbers go up.

Look at Ortiz's HR progression compared to someone like Jose Bautista. Baustista's spike is much more dramatic.

Yeah, you're probably right!

 

[intlzncster]

Yeah, you're probably right!

Now you are getting it, ma. You are really getting it!

 

[storrsroars]

Okay, maybe he was on amphetamines or something else. Maybe he was on nothing at all. If he was a beanpole with skinny little legs, where did he get the strength to pitch as well as he did? I guess he just had a good arm. Most pitchers with his build throw their arms out early in their careers.

But not all. Pedro had the advantage of four or five plus pitches he could locate, not just a fastball. And even with that, he was pretty much washed up at 34. As was Guidry, who was same height and a few pounds thinner. Whitey Ford was 5'10/178. He did all right for himself.

 

[arnie3]

The first drug test that was not to be released but was, produced 103 PED users. Given what has happened this year, I don't think much has changed. It's pretty depressing especially to pitchers! I still believe that there are at least 50 and maybe closer to 100 guys who are doing this. MLB had to have this in their lap before they could do anything, so I'm not relying on them to be of much use once this blows over. It was Canseco, I believe, who said that science will always be ahead of the league.
I'm at the point where I don't believe much is honest any more in pro sports.Most athletes believe that they need an edge, and this will continue until players are banned from baseball. I just don't see that happening because owners would not allow it. The only unifying lifetime ban seems to be Alex. Man just about everyone wants him gone. and I'm a Yankee fan!

 

[hthusky74]

The first drug test that was not to be released but was, produced 103 PED users. Given what has happened this year, I don't think much has changed. It's pretty depressing especially to pitchers! I still believe that there are at least 50 and maybe closer to 100 guys who are doing this. MLB had to have this in their lap before they could do anything, so I'm not relying on them to be of much use once this blows over. It was Canseco, I believe, who said that science will always be ahead of the league.
I'm at the point where I don't believe much is honest any more in pro sports.Most athletes believe that they need an edge, and this will continue until players are banned from baseball. I just don't see that happening because owners would not allow it. The only unifying lifetime ban seems to be Alex. Man just about everyone wants him gone. and I'm a Yankee fan!

So am I, and I think Yankee fans want to see hime get a lifetime ban more than anyone else so that money can be freed up to buy another drug addled Dominican.

 

[2north]

Anabolic steroids give direct muscle mass growth, the others don't...they are more recovery oriented. The others wouldn't contribute to his power in the same fashion, although they would allow someone to perform at their peak more often.

And dude, you cannot juice location (which was the only one of those I included in my statement above). That's an unfounded statement. Show me the data. Location has everything to do with mechanics and mentality. It doesn't help you repeat your mechanics. Where did you get that idea?

You just said it yourself, it allows you to peak more often, including during games. Hence repeatable motion and mechanics. But IMO the biggest advantage is increased focus and sight. My good friend did them all in college but had to stop after a few seasons in the minors.

 

[intlzncster]

You just said it yourself, it allows you to peak more often, including during games. Hence repeatable motion and mechanics. But IMO the biggest advantage is increased focus and sight. My good friend did them all in college but had to stop after a few seasons in the minors.

But muscle memory isn't necessarily result of peak muscular ability (prob correlation, but no idea about causation). You can be at peak, and still never be able to repeat your delivery. See John Rocker after one year.

RE the bold statement, that's amphetamines though, not Roids, right? I thought snipers took amphetamines for that purpose.

 

[intlzncster]

So am I, and I think Yankee fans want to see hime get a lifetime ban more than anyone else so that money can be freed up to buy another drug addled Dominican.

Some Met's fan wrote this on another website, but I found it funny and apropos here:

Still no word on what happens with the remaining money after that 2014 season. I’m sure the Yankees will find a way out of it. Just absolutely unbelievable that the one time Major League Baseball decides to show a pair of balls and literally make up their own rules, the Yankees benefit.

You know who the biggest loser is in all of this? The Rangers. Still owe him $40 million in deferred money no matter what happens. Solid contract, Texas!

 

[Waquoit]

He's been offered "multi-millions" whatever that may be........he is now in danger of losing this if the Yanks pursue, certainly not all but much!

The offer is probably less than he gets from the Yanks in one week.