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They weren't a favorite then and aren't good now.
NBA Post-Season Thread
- Thread starter Rocktheworld
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They weren't a favorite then and aren't good now.
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The options are pay him a max deal after next year or trade him when his value is at his highest.
Paying him a max deal, in conjunction with Horford's deal, will prevent the Celtics from "loading up" the roster around him unless Brown becomes a great player and they hit home runs on the two Nets picks coming up.
Personally I would rather not pay him the max deal and get some good draft picks or get a real good young player for him.
They look a lot better then the Celtics right now.
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1-6 they are much better than the Celtics, they had a very inconsistent regular season
nomar
#1 Casual Fan™
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Those aren't mutually exclusive.
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The Celtics remind me so much of the Thibodeau coached Bulls teams. They scratch and claw all season long, playing their starters big minutes and not taking any nights off. Playing this way they are able to complile a really good regular season record only to have their weaknesses exposed early in the playoffs.
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Yeah no doubt, especially because the further you advance the more liberal you're going to get defensively with things like switching and trapping. The Cavs aren't going to ask Tristan Thompson to chase guards around for 82 games, but he can do it for a series against Golden State if he has to. The Warriors aren't going to ask Klay Thompson to guard fours all season but he can do it in the playoffs if he has to.
The better the talent the more primitive the game becomes sometimes. Kyrie has shown the ability to crack elite defenses in a way other guards that I think are typically better than him have not.
For those who have watched Isaiah more than me: is he a big time iso scorer or is he more of a pnr guy? Because it seems like heady guards are going to have an easier time manipulating defenses during the regular season.
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I see way too many people letting the Celts and Stevens off the hook too easily. Nobody thought this team was a legit title contender but losing 2 straight home games in front of fired up crowds to a team that they were 12 wins better than while playing the same schedule is downright embarrassing. Where's the "elite" defense from Crowder/Bradley/Smart? This Celts team isn't as talented as a 1 seed typically is, but acting like this team isn't more talented than the Bulls are simply wrong. Wade and Rondo are both well past their primes and neither can shoot. Butler is a star, but so is Isaiah. IT is probably going to make 2nd team all-NBA and he isn't even the guy on the team making max money, I'm tired of hearing that this team doesn't have the talent to beat this Bulls team.
QDOG5
I dont have a drug problem I have a police problem
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Bulls were an absolute mess all year. I think the entire roster including the HC were available in a trade at some point this year. Thank goodness the anti-brain trust of Gar Forman and John Paxson didn't trade Butler. GarPax traded Taj Gibson and Doug McDermott for two guys who aren't even dressing for the Bulls during the playoffs. All that being said the Bulls did split the season series against the Celts and swept the season series against the Cavs, so there is some talent on the roster. Rondo has been great since getting the starting job back last month. Robin Lopez played his two best games of the year in games 1&2. I just got an invite to the game on Friday night. Might even don my Ben Gordon Bulls jersey for the game.
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The Celts are absolutely culpable, getting outsmarted (quick/dumb shots, turnovers) and outhustled (rebounds) by the Bulls, both inexcusable. Brad Steven's playoff record is cause for concern at this point as are the playoff bonafides of key pieces Smart, Crowder and Horford - all of whom seem to get worse or fade in postseason.
I do think Butler is unquestionably the best player in the series, and after Isaiah though it should be Horford, next come the 3 Bulls; Rondo, Wade & Lopez better than anyone in green. I think that's legit as you'd take for one series in 2017 any of those guys over the Amir Johnson's, Oleniks, Brown etc.. Celtics roster top to bottom is better than Bulls, but the middle is in favor of the Bulls and the Rondo factor was looming to kill them. Rondo wasn't motivated since big-3 days and nearly played himself out of the league, but he's a jerk and that tendency works in his favor to beat the Celtics. The Celtics would trade Avery Bradley or Smart etc.. for either Rondo or Wade in a heartbeat for game 3, likewise Lopez for Johnson and probably Miritic for Crowder.
Depressing reality is outside of Isaiah's otherworldly regular season performance which is likely not repeated in future years and definitely not happening in this series, the Celtics are a middle of pack team. Vs. Bulls, Celts advantage of being younger negated by rest and experience & size seem way more important. Best thing I can say about the series is Ainge is learning none of the pieces, cheap contracts or not are un-trade-able. Worst thing is I have no bright side for Brad Steven's 2-10 playoff record.
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Mirotic for Crowder, no way. Rondo is not better than Bradley either but he sure looks motivated for this series so I'll give you that one.
The Bulls are not talented. They have a s____ roster with pieces that do not complement each other. People want them to be some sleeping giant to explain this inexplicable start but they are not. They are probably somewhat of a bad fit for the Celtics, but still. The Bulls played 7 guys double figure minutes last night which helps mitigate their s____ roster but isn't a good plan for a team that isn't exactly young.
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Haha yup, I love when people try to write off an 82-game sample size because a team played well a couple games in a row.
There are exceptions where teams have coasted and then turned on the switch in the playoffs, but the Bulls ain't it.
gtcam
Diehard since '65
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Some people just may not understand the matchups/workings of the NBA. The Bulls may have a crappy roster to some but DW, Rondo, Butler all have playoff experience and regardless of age are capable of putting together a strong string of games. The Bulls are big in comparison to the Celts and when you have 4 guys hitting their shots, all hitting the boards and have a big who is banging the boards with little opposition - lots can happen. Then you have a guy like Portis who all of a sudden comes alive and joins the rest of the team in hitting 75% of his shots. The two teams that Boston matches up the worse with in the East are Miami and Chicago - guess who they draw either Miami or Chicago. The Bulls have had some unbelievably impressive games this year, especially when Rondo plays and is on the same page as DW.
The Celtics, as they stand now, are not a playoff tested team and it shows. They also need a legitimate 5 - if they had that this series would not be close.
In addition - I Thomas is not his usual, for obvious reasons
Brad Stevens has done a great job but he needs a big and to shore up the bench behind Marcus, Terry and Jaylen. Gerald Green was a lights out shooter and then after the All Star game he has gone stone cold. Losing last night spells trouble for their chances of advancing
The Celtics, as they stand now, are not a playoff tested team and it shows. They also need a legitimate 5 - if they had that this series would not be close.
In addition - I Thomas is not his usual, for obvious reasons
Brad Stevens has done a great job but he needs a big and to shore up the bench behind Marcus, Terry and Jaylen. Gerald Green was a lights out shooter and then after the All Star game he has gone stone cold. Losing last night spells trouble for their chances of advancing
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FYI- it started with the Pat Riley Miami Heat Alonzo Mourning years....Max out their talent in the regular season because their great coaches...Problem is the rest of the teams get better in the playoffs because they try a lot more meanwhile Miami or Celtics have been trying hard all year...NBA needs help..
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I was on the fence about this before, but watching how good the Warriors look, it's clear to me that Durant going there was just flat out bad for the sport. Don't get me wrong, it's cool to watch, and it remains to be seen how things play out, but right now, the optics aren't good. Not for him, not for the league. We're potentially missing out on what could have been two epic re-matches (OKC vs Golden State in the conference finals and then potentially GSW-CLE the rubber match in the finals).
He obviously has his rights and in a weird way I respect him for doing this knowing he was going to get killed for it, but it doesn't seem to be working out for the league from my eyes. You took a league where four or five teams could have won the title - GS, OKC, SA, Cle, maybe LAC or HOU - and reduced it to a product that feels too UConn women's'ish to me.
He obviously has his rights and in a weird way I respect him for doing this knowing he was going to get killed for it, but it doesn't seem to be working out for the league from my eyes. You took a league where four or five teams could have won the title - GS, OKC, SA, Cle, maybe LAC or HOU - and reduced it to a product that feels too UConn women's'ish to me.
QDOG5
I dont have a drug problem I have a police problem
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NBA set an attendance record this year. The TV ratings are up also. So somebody is watching the non contenders. The NBA has always been a stars league. Most people enjoyed the Celts/Lakers years even though they knew the rest of the league was on a lower level. Durant was a free agent and went where he thought he had the best chance to win a title. I don't hold that against him. The Warriors are even more fun to watch with him on board. I think the optics for him and the league are fine. Now, the optics of stars sitting out regular season games -- bad for the league.
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They need to shorten the season, especially for contenders.
Then, they need to do something to generate end of year excitement. Much as I disagree with most of Bill Simmons, his suggestion of keeping 16 teams in the lottery and having an end of year--pick not at stake--tournament for the last East and West spot would be a huge money maker, and generate all sorts of end of year interest while giving fans reasons to hope all year.
QDOG5
I dont have a drug problem I have a police problem
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Was this on Grantland? I haven't read it.
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I think that's right, the NBA regular season was unexpectedly great this year due to the emergence of new superstars (Giannis, Wall & Beal, Isaiah, Hayward) and a few of the very best players taking their games to MVP levels (Russ, Harden, Kawhi) but that obscured the fact that Cavs were likely past peak while Warriors still ascending. This might be a rare case where the regular season is more dramatic than the playoffs.
That said I still think there are going to be lots of good basketball games to watch. FOUR first round series are pretty intriguing so far (Celts-Bulls, Raptors-Bucks, Houston-OKC, Clips-Jazz) and reasonable to expect 3/4 to remain good thru 5-7 games. Likewise the 2nd round will have good matchups and I think for first time in many LeBron years the Eastern finals will be intriguing. So although the final outcome might be a fate compleat, bottom line is we are getting more good basketball games and interesting players to watch. Mostly due to Eastern conference improving while the West slides back down to earth via OKC/Durant loss and Spurs + Clippers aging.
With respect to Bulls-Celts 100% agree with gtcam, I didn't mean I'd trade Rondo for Smart long-term, but for this series Celts guys in general are inexperienced and really playing quite stupidly. Doesn't matter that the Bulls have no chance to make the finals, neither do the Celtics but I'd sure like to watch them play 12+ playoff games vs 4 or 5 and out.
Mr. French
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Ya he mentioned this idea a few times in the day ... He thought it would add intrigue to the battle for the 8th spot and somewhat eliminate the tanking game.
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Double dramatic turn of events for Celtics
Rondo out indefinitely with thumb fracture = just went from 25% chance in series to close to 50-50
Carmelo to Celtics gaining steam - just went from fun to watch team to ball stopping nightmare of hero ball
Rondo out indefinitely with thumb fracture = just went from 25% chance in series to close to 50-50
Carmelo to Celtics gaining steam - just went from fun to watch team to ball stopping nightmare of hero ball
That would be disastrous.
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Simmons has talked about that for probably like 10 years by now. There's no way to make that work logistically though. If the league were going to take games off the board, I'd rather see them get rid of the first round. This year is an exception, but last year's (and most in general) first round are just games for the sake of having games. The sport is not conducive to having upset runs to the title.
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NY Post are the ones responsible for the Melo/Celts rumors. There's 0 chance the Celts have any real interest in Melo, especially given that their main free agent target (Hayward), most talked about trade target (Butler) and their most likely draft targets (if they don't get the 1 pick/can't get Fultz) are probably Tatum/Jackson, who all play the same position. Beyond that, the Celts didn't try to get in on Cousins due to character issues, why would they want Melo when he's openly feuding with his organization/just separated from his wife/just knocked up some random stripper. No way Celts take that sh¡tstorm on.