NBA Post-Season Thread | Page 4 | The Boneyard

NBA Post-Season Thread

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I actually disagree, and think this has been Stevens' worst job so far (which is crazy to say considering their record). He did a terrible job developing their bench and establishing roles for players, and it's rearing its ugly head.
His development of their bench is the only reason they had such a strong regular season. It's a marathon. Playoffs are a sprint and without that Alpha go-to you are pretty much helpless to make any sort of run to the Finals.
 
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Does Jimmy Butler make you a contender? No. If you trade for him, do you still have enough pieces to trade for another player that makes you a contender? Likely no.

Countless NBA teams in history have "gone for it" when they weren't really close enough to do so, and it set them back for years to come.
Don't they have Brooklyn's 2018 pick as well? Nets will be terrible for years to come so that's still a pretty solid trade piece.
 
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I agree with BigErn. "Developing their bench"? Who besides Brown are you talking about? (And I don't even agree that Brown hasn't developed.) Rozier?

We needed a rebounder. Not a great rebounder. Ainge was right not to give up anything of value. But we could have traded some 2nd round picks for a body.
I'm mystified still that they didn't sign Terrence Jones after he got released. He'd be far more productive than stiffs like Jerebko and Zeller.

As for the bench, Stevens was all over the place with minutes for Rozier, Jaylen, and Olynyk. He was usually pretty consistent with bench roles in years past, but no one seemed to have a clue about their role heading into the postseason this year.
 
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I'm not sure Ern is saying what you're saying.

I'm happy they didn't blow up the team, even though agree IT isn't the #1 player on a title team. But a small move would've helped the Celtics avoid getting swept by the 8th seed.

You may be right in retrospect but this is my opinion. I would have taken Butler. They would have likely lost in the ECF with that roster but they would still have a great young nucleus. We won't really know what the ideal move was until we see how good Fultz/Ball or whoever they land is.

Does Jimmy Butler make you a contender? No. If you trade for him, do you still have enough pieces to trade for another player that makes you a contender? Likely no.

Countless NBA teams in history have "gone for it" when they weren't really close enough to do so, and it set them back for years to come.

I can see both sides. Its a risk either way. Like I said, it will depend on the draft pick. If they land Fultz and he is a an All-NBA player and they can comfortably ditch IT, Ainge will look like a genius. They are also lucky enough that their roster construction will likely lead to them being a very good to great team for the foreseeable future regardless.

I don't like the idea that you only make moves if they put you into a position to win the championship. Provided there are no injuries, no one should challenge the Warriors for the next 3-4 years.
 

nomar

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I'm mystified still that they didn't sign Terrence Jones after he got released. He'd be far more productive than stiffs like Jerebko and Zeller.

As for the bench, Stevens was all over the place with minutes for Rozier, Jaylen, and Olynyk. He was usually pretty consistent with bench roles in years past, but no one seemed to have a clue about their role heading into the postseason this year.

He was experimenting all the way to the end, which was disconcerting. So if you're talking about subbing units, I agree. But I think player development has been fine.
 
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I'm mystified still that they didn't sign Terrence Jones after he got released. He'd be far more productive than stiffs like Jerebko and Zeller.

As for the bench, Stevens was all over the place with minutes for Rozier, Jaylen, and Olynyk. He was usually pretty consistent with bench roles in years past, but no one seemed to have a clue about their role heading into the postseason this year.

Hard to disagree with your first point. Terrence Jones is underrated.
 
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He was experimenting all the way to the end, which was disconcerting. So if you're talking about subbing units, I agree. But I think player development has been fine.
Yup, I used the wrong terminology. I'm happy with the way they're developing Jaylen (and, to a lesser extent, Rozier), but his confidence was completely shot by the end of the year due to inconsistent minutes.

Losing Turner was a big loss for the bench, but not an insurmountable one. Stevens deserves a lotta blame for not figuring it out.
 
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Yeah I don't disagree that they have the pieces to have made a Butler deal, but even without that there was available inside help that was there for the taking. The lack of rebounding is an issue that no player development was going to address and it mystifies me that Ainge didn't make a move.
Celtics weren't willing to offer that Brooklyn pick as a part of a Butler trade. Bulls would have been nuts to accept any mish-mash of players the Celts were offering.
 

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Yup, I used the wrong terminology. I'm happy with the way they're developing Jaylen (and, to a lesser extent, Rozier), but his confidence was completely shot by the end of the year due to inconsistent minutes.

Losing Turner was a big loss for the bench, but not an insurmountable one. Stevens deserves a lotta blame for not figuring it out.

Ultimately it may just be a personnel issue. Like Ern said, he maxed this team out during the regular season but he just doesn't have the horses. That said, I have to give some blame to Stevens for these losses. I don't care that the Bulls have Butler. They're the 8th seed for a reason. The Celtics are better. But they are getting humiliated. IT's not himself and that's a big part of it, but the way the Celtics played today after racing out to the 7-0 lead was shocking.
 
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All of this Celtics should have traded for him is nonsense, the Bulls were not trading Butler, he was not available.

Celtics roster is frankly not very good and your not going to do anything in the playoffs when the one guy on your team who can make a shot is 5'7. Been saying it for awhile, if a team will give you a good pick or a good young player for IT they should move him asap.
 
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Ultimately it may just be a personnel issue. Like Ern said, he maxed this team out during the regular season but he just doesn't have the horses. That said, I have to give some blame to Stevens for these losses. I don't care that the Bulls have Butler. They're the 8th seed for a reason. The Celtics are better. But they are getting humiliated. IT's not himself and that's a big part of it, but the way the Celtics played today after racing out to the 7-0 lead was shocking.
I think the Bulls D had a lot to do with it, this is the best D I've seen them play all season. With Wade and Rondo playing like this to compliment Butler I'm not really sure the Celts have the talent to matchup. It's a minor miracle Stevens was able to get a 1 seed out of that roster, besides Isaiah's scoring outbursts nothing on that roster wows me.
 
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All of this Celtics should have traded for him is nonsense, the Bulls were not trading Butler, he was not available.

Celtics roster is frankly not very good and your not going to do anything in the playoffs when the one guy on your team who can make a shot is 5'7. Been saying it for awhile, if a team will give you a good pick or a good young player for IT they should move him asap.
I'm not sure I understand the logic here. The Celtics have one guy who can create his own shot ... so they should trade him? I've seen other people say something similar, and it makes no sense.

And that's not even mentioning the impact Isaiah has on guys like Bradley and Crowder. There's a reason other players' offensive numbers continue to improve every year - they benefit from opposing defenses focusing primarily on IT.
 
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All of this Celtics should have traded for him is nonsense, the Bulls were not trading Butler, he was not available.

Celtics roster is frankly not very good and your not going to do anything in the playoffs when the one guy on your team who can make a shot is 5'7. Been saying it for awhile, if a team will give you a good pick or a good young player for IT they should move him asap.
Not liking your post because of your incredible post/like ratio being 1;1. But I like your post.
 
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I'm not sure I understand the logic here. The Celtics have one guy who can create his own shot ... so they should trade him? I've seen other people say something similar, and it makes no sense.

And that's not even mentioning the impact Isaiah has on guys like Bradley and Crowder. There's a reason other players' offensive numbers continue to improve every year - they benefit from opposing defenses focusing primarily on IT.
The point is when hes the one guy you are in trouble. When he is your only option you are not winning anything. His playoff shooting percentages decline hugely over his regular season numbers for a reason.
 
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The point is when hes the one guy you are in trouble. When he is your only option you are not winning anything. His playoff shooting percentages decline hugely over his regular season numbers for a reason.
So the solution is to trade him for subpar value? Why not try to load up the roster around him?

IT can't be the best player on a title team, but he can be a go-to scorer. I'm not sure I understand why many Celtics fans are so willing to part ways with a player like that.
 

nomar

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I think the Bulls D had a lot to do with it, this is the best D I've seen them play all season. With Wade and Rondo playing like this to compliment Butler I'm not really sure the Celts have the talent to matchup. It's a minor miracle Stevens was able to get a 1 seed out of that roster, besides Isaiah's scoring outbursts nothing on that roster wows me.

The Celtics are better IMO, but the Bulls are playing really well and deserved the wins. IT is not himself for obvious reasons.
 
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I really don't follow NBA that much, but Quinn Snyder looks as douchey as he did w Duke.
 
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So the solution is to trade him for subpar value? Why not try to load up the roster around him?

IT can't be the best player on a title team, but he can be a go-to scorer. I'm not sure I understand why many Celtics fans are so willing to part ways with a player like that.

He is going to want a max, and rightfully so. It comes down to whether you want to be paying him 30 million a year as a 33, 34, 35 year old. I don't know the answer and you have watched him a lot more than I have.
 
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Weren't the Bulls one of the preseason favorites in the East? Bulls have the best player in the series, a clutch closer, a motivated former Celtic pg with playoff experience, the Bulls are just a better team, the Celtics had a better season.
 
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Hard to disagree with you there. KD is somehow underrated. He has never been the best player in the League, which is bizarre for a potential top 10 player, but that's life when you share your prime with the 2nd best player of all time.

Happens more than you think, how long was Kobe the BitL for? Hakeem was only ever the BitL when MJ took those 2 years off, Bird & Magic had to share the title. Also IMO KD was very sneakily the best player in the league this year before getting hurt.
 
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I'm not as plugged into the Celtics as others here, but nothing has really changed for me big picture through these first two games as bad as the optics are. Forget the fact that they don't have the horses of your typical #1 seed - their statistical profile indicated that they were closer to a four or five seed caliber. +2.7 point differential, which would have ranked sixth in the west, and as other people have mentioned that figure was likely aided by depth and great coaching.

Even accounting for all that, there should be a regression to the mean. The Celtics aren't this bad and the Bulls aren't this good - this smelled like a seven game series to me earlier in the week and I could still see it getting to that point if the Celtics can re-discover their moxie. Pointless as it is to speculate, it's hard to imagine that the Thomas situation hasn't had an impact on their play.

The conundrum for Boston moving forward is Thomas. I equate the output of him and other guys during this age of pace and space to the production of baseball players during the steroid era. The three point line has inflated point totals to thresholds I don't think they were ever really intended to cross and as a result we live in a world where a 5'9 guy averages 29 a game on absurd efficiency. I mean Christ, I love Kemba, but the fact that he's approaching 25 a game demonstrates how silly this has all gotten.

I think the "the regular season and playoffs are totally different" angle is overplayed, but there's no denying that there are certain players and teams more conducive to playoff success than others, and with guys like Isaiah, it's difficult to extrapolate that regular season magic into corresponding playoff production when we've seen better players like Curry taper off.

Ultimately, I think we're still in that awkward phase where everybody - including the smartest people - is figuring this out, and so sitting here today all I can say is I don't know. I consider myself pretty open to the advanced numbers, but you watch a guy like Kyrie in the playoffs and wonder if there are certain things the formulas are just never going to pick up on. Is Isaiah better than Mike Conely? I don't know. The extent to which the officials swallow the whistle in the playoffs will dictate a lot of this, in addition to a bunch of other stylistic variables that are tough to quantify.

I do agree with @walker11 that it is very easy for our perspective to become warped as we're watching arguably the greatest team of all-time - the Warriors - converge with the best player of the generation. I look at a guy like Chris Paul, realize he has absolutely no chance of breaking through to the conference finals, and wonder how his legacy would have been different in another time. A lot of this stuff is just pure luck.
 
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I consider myself pretty open to the advanced numbers, but you watch a guy like Kyrie in the playoffs and wonder if there are certain things the formulas are just never going to pick up on.

In my opinion, in high level playoff games, offensive scheming can only get you so far. It will always come down to the horses. And advanced stats undervalue guys who can create and make very difficult shots. Guys like Kobe, and Kyrie. Kyrie looks crappy on some advanced stats relative to his peers but he is one of the best shot creators in the league, and if he only makes 38% of these shots, this is still an amazingly valuable skill. My apologies if I have already posted the exact same thing in this thread.
 

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The Bucks are a year away from being a legitimate challenger to the Cavaliers in the East. Giannis is barely scratching the surface and Middleton is good enough to be a 2nd or 3rd option on a top tier team assuming he recovers completely by next season.. Either they have the best scouts in the NBA or they pulled Brogdan and Maker out of their , but either way, those two are going to be good. I know he is not always giving 100% effort on defense, but I like Monroe more than Parker, who I think just sucks defensively. Dellavadova is better coming off the bench than starting. Snell, Teletovic and Hawes are decent backups.

From a cap perspective, Henson and Parker are the only problems. Henson has a big contract for a barely NBA caliber player, and Parker is going to want big money in a year. I think the Bucks are better off without Parker, and should figure out how to move both of them together in a cap deal to get a decent veteran point guard.
 
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The time to do Butler deal was last June when supposedly they would have taken Crowder and #3 (Brown), #16 French Draymond Green.

This team is bad honestly. The #1 thing seems like a mirage, they are worse than Cavs, Wiz, Toronto, Bulls and possibly Pacers, Hawks.

Yeah I don't disagree that they have the pieces to have made a Butler deal, but even without that there was available inside help that was there for the taking. The lack of rebounding is an issue that no player development was going to address and it mystifies me that Ainge didn't make a move.
 

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