Maryland’s $157 million counterclaim: ACC recruited B1G schools

[TouchdownHusky]

Let me rephrase, slightly. . .any ACC team with a conference loss will not make a four team playoff. I think the Big Ten is next in line in the "I need to be undefeated in conference play" category. The ACC has been terrible over the past several seasons and I don't see one season turning it around. If they are terrible next year, people will soon forget this past year. If FSU had dropped a conference game this year, they would not have played in the NC. After years of underperforming, FSU was finally able to convert the level of talent they have had on the field. But, this isn't about FSU, it's about the conference around them, and most people will be able to separate the two.

Addendum to above: At least for the foreseeable future, three of the four top spots likely go to the SEC Champion, PAC12 Champion and SEC Runner Up with the Big 12, Big Ten and ACC Champion fighting for the last spot. In that scenario, the ACC Champion cannot have a conference loss.

Quickest way to destroy the present conference alignments is to allow champions only. That leaves SEC also-rans out in the cold. Model to follow should be 8-10 conferences of 9-10 teams each.

 

[UConn9604]

^ This. In spades.

Money talks, BS walks. A successful 4-team playoff will only make fans want more, especially if the first round is played on campus. Maybe even the first two rounds.

I think it will go to eight teams pretty quickly...inside 5 years is my guess...and that will be it. Five auto bids, two at-large teams, and, a spot for one of the remaining conferences.

Another option would be a six-team playoff, like the NFL's conference playoffs -- the bottom four play in with two games, then the winners play the top two.

I also wouldn't be surprised to see some of these games hosted on campus, or in strategically located stadiums, almost like the women's tournament (e.g., putting a Georgia or Georgia Tech in Atlanta, an LSU in the Superdome, a Big Ten team in Detroit or Indianapolis). Basketball tournaments are easy to fill because the stadiums are comparatively smaller, because the teams involved get smaller numbers of tickets (something like 5,000 vs. 15,000), and because each site hosts multiple games.

If the football championship model expects that football fans will travel not only to their conference championship games but also to first-, second- and third-round sites, they'll be sorely mistaken, and a lot of games will look like the fourth quarter of Louisville vs. UConn at The Rent this fall.

 

[SouthronCross]

Another option would be a six-team playoff, like the NFL's conference playoffs -- the bottom four play in with two games, then the winners play the top two.

If the FBS were only 40-45 teams, I could agree with you. But, with around 60, I think eight is the best number. Playing the first two rounds on campus, like the FCS playoffs do, would place less of a burden on some teams to sell tickets. That would help ensure sellouts, and, make TV people happy.

Now, one change I would make would be that the home team would have to provide 10% of its capacity to the visiting team's fans. So, Alabama (102,000) would have to make 10,200 seats available for a game in Tuscaloosa, FSU (85,000) approximately 8,500, and, so forth and so on.

I also wouldn't be surprised to see some of these games hosted on campus, or in strategically located stadiums, almost like the women's tournament (e.g., putting a Georgia or Georgia Tech in Atlanta, an LSU in the Superdome, a Big Ten team in Detroit or Indianapolis). Basketball tournaments are easy to fill because the stadiums are comparatively smaller, because the teams involved get smaller numbers of tickets (something like 5,000 vs. 15,000), and because each site hosts multiple games.

I believe that the 1st two rounds being hosted by the higher seeded teams would work better. But, meeting at a neutral ground halfway between the two teams is not a bad idea, either.

If the football championship model expects that football fans will travel not only to their conference championship games but also to first-, second- and third-round sites, they'll be sorely mistaken, and a lot of games will look like the fourth quarter of Louisville vs. UConn at The Rent this fall.

You got that right. Some of the bowl games were pretty poorly attended, too. That the economy is still struggling has hurt attendance at a majority of college venues, for football and hoops.

 

[billybud]

I hate the idea of a larger playoff.

Who cares about the FCS regular season games? The FCS season, to me, is not particularly exciting. It is all about the last series of games in the playoff.

FBS seasons are exciting. There is a playoff game almost every weekend. Oklahoma plays Texas, Oregon-Stanford, FSU-Clemson, Ohio State-MSU, Notre Dame-USC, Alabama-LSU, and on...

A game on any given Saturday could impact the whole playoff picture. When a top five team loses a game, the whole woof and warp of the college football fabric vibrates.

We all watch teams from other conferences that we might not normally because of the drama...the impact upon other teams.

A large playoff dilutes the regular season...and, gawd help me, I am a football fan that loves the regular season. Maybe beyond reason if you listened to my wife.

 

[B1GALUM]

Is this thread EVER going to be about "Maryland's 157 million counterclaim..., why don't we close it to further posting?

University of Maryland subpoenas Pitt records on the ACC

Pitt must turn over records it has relating to the ACC, according to a subpoena filed Thursday by the University of Maryland.
Maryland appears to be seeking the records to bolster its defense of a lawsuit filed by the ACC in November 2012 to ensure payment of a $50 million exit fee.
Pitt must turn over the records by the end of March.
The Maryland Attorney General's Office filed a $156.8 million claim against the ACC last month, alleging, in part, that the conference, via Wake Forest and Pitt, tried to poach at least two schools from the Big Ten. Attorneys and spokespersons for the schools did not return calls late Friday.

Read more: http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/5556712-74/acc-maryland-filed#ixzz2sjekzkSc
Follow us: @triblive on Twitter | triblive on Facebook

 

[TRest]

University of Maryland subpoenas Pitt records on the ACC

Pitt must turn over records it has relating to the ACC, according to a subpoena filed Thursday by the University of Maryland.
Maryland appears to be seeking the records to bolster its defense of a lawsuit filed by the ACC in November 2012 to ensure payment of a $50 million exit fee.
Pitt must turn over the records by the end of March.
The Maryland Attorney General's Office filed a $156.8 million claim against the ACC last month, alleging, in part, that the conference, via Wake Forest and Pitt, tried to poach at least two schools from the Big Ten. Attorneys and spokespersons for the schools did not return calls late Friday.

Read more: http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/5556712-74/acc-maryland-filed#ixzz2sjekzkSc
Follow us: @triblive on Twitter | triblive on Facebook

Could be fascinating, probably won't be.

 

[billybud]

LOL...This could be fun.

Have the ACC subpoena any confidentiality agreements that the Big Ten has/had with any school that it talked with.

Subpoena phone records of Dr Loh.

Subpoena phone records of Big Ten office..

Let 'er rip....I'll get the popcorn.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

I'll never get the whole " playoffs" ruin the regular season argument.

With only 8 slots available its not like teams can just go out there and lose games and still get in.

Also correct me if I'm wrong, but not having two teams picked by a computer to play for the title hasn't exactly hurt the NFL. Or a panel of the most random assortment of people picking four teams either

Regardless, I won't be tuning in anyways. College football has been and will continue to be dead to me until we get into the cartel. even then, it won't be the same.

 

[SouthronCross]

University of Maryland subpoenas Pitt records on the ACC

Pitt must turn over records it has relating to the ACC, according to a subpoena filed Thursday by the University of Maryland.
Maryland appears to be seeking the records to bolster its defense of a lawsuit filed by the ACC in November 2012 to ensure payment of a $50 million exit fee.
Pitt must turn over the records by the end of March.
The Maryland Attorney General's Office filed a $156.8 million claim against the ACC last month, alleging, in part, that the conference, via Wake Forest and Pitt, tried to poach at least two schools from the Big Ten. Attorneys and spokespersons for the schools did not return calls late Friday.

Read more: http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/5556712-74/acc-maryland-filed#ixzz2sjekzkSc
Follow us: @triblive on Twitter | triblive on Facebook

Let me see if I have this right...the ACC is alleged to have attempted to poach two B1G schools? And they sent Wake and Pitt to initiate it? Really?

I guess that is not entirely out of the realm of possibility.

My question would be this...if it IS true, why would Swofford not send folks from the ACC schools with real stroke, a la UNC, UVA, Duke, Clemson, and FSU?

I hope UMD and the B1G are ready to reciprocate in kind. Although, I doubt much of anything ever comes of it. From either side.

 

[SouthronCross]

LOL...This could be fun.

Have the ACC subpoena any confidentiality agreements that the Big Ten has/had with any school that it talked with.

Subpoena phone records of Dr Loh.

Subpoena phone records of Big Ten office..

Let 'er rip....I'll get the popcorn.

By the time all of the subpoenas are served, I am betting neither side will have the stomach for what discovery might reveal.

Of course, it could be a ploy by UMD to help bring this all to an approximately $30-35M end.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Let me see if I have this right...the ACC is alleged to have attempted to poach two B1G schools? And they sent Wake and Pitt to initiate it? Really?

I guess that is not entirely out of the realm of possibility.

My question would be this...if it IS true, why would Swofford not send folks from the ACC schools with real stroke, a la UNC, UVA, Duke, Clemson, and FSU?

I hope UMD and the B1G are ready to reciprocate in kind. Although, I doubt much of anything ever comes of it. From either side.

I understand using Wake as a conduit since it's a private school. Not as easy to get FOI requests from them. But Pitt is a public school and subject to FOI's.

 

[CL82]

LOL...This could be fun.

Have the ACC subpoena any confidentiality agreements that the Big Ten has/had with any school that it talked with.

Subpoena phone records of Dr Loh.

Subpoena phone records of Big Ten office..

Let 'er rip....I'll get the popcorn.

It will be interesting. I don't think that they be able to go after the B1G based upon the current allegations in the complaint, but they will be able to see the Maryland side of things, which would be ...well interesting. Loh's phone record are certainly fair game though. I'm not sure what you expect to find in them other than the timing of calls.

For what it is worth, I think Maryland is doing exactly what the ought to be doing. The ACC decided to make this a messy divorce. Maryland's counsel have accepted the reality of that. We can agree that it is going to be entertaining. Particularly ESPN's discussion of it's role in conference realignment and the pattern of rewarding the ACC for breaking apart the Big East.

 

[CL82]

By the time all of the subpoenas are served, I am betting neither side will have the stomach for what discovery might reveal.

Of course, it could be a ploy by UMD to help bring this all to an approximately $30-35M end.

Far lower, I'd guess. Far lower.

 

[baggerbob]

That's really going to sit well with the state of Pennsylvania, Maryland may end up being the First school in history kicked out of a conference before they join.

 

[noeynox]

Let me see if I have this right...the ACC is alleged to have attempted to poach two B1G schools? And they sent Wake and Pitt to initiate it? Really?

I guess that is not entirely out of the realm of possibility.

My question would be this...if it IS true, why would Swofford not send folks from the ACC schools with real stroke, a la UNC, UVA, Duke, Clemson, and FSU?

I hope UMD and the B1G are ready to reciprocate in kind. Although, I doubt much of anything ever comes of it. From either side.

The presidents at those schools may have had relationships/ties to the presidents at the schools they were trying to poach. Maryland's interest in the Big 10, was made known to the league by the president at Iowa, who recalled a casual conversation they shared with UMD.

 

[billybud]

We know that there will be phone calls back and forth between the Big Ten office and Maryland (Dr. Loh...the AD's office). We also know that the Big Ten has admitted talking to more then one school themselves.

I do not understand Maryland's reasoning...what does it matter if Wake and/or Pitt did talk to a couple of Big Ten schools? How does that impact Maryland?

Schools talk to other schools all of the time.

My guess is that Pitt talked to old rival Penn State....now one has to make the jump that it was at the ACC's direction..and, if so...ask soooo?

 

[FAIRTIDES]

We know that there will be phone calls back and forth between the Big Ten office and Maryland (Dr. Loh...the AD's office). We also know that the Big Ten has admitted talking to more then one school themselves.

I do not understand Maryland's reasoning...what does it matter if Wake and/or Pitt did talk to a couple of Big Ten schools? How does that impact Maryland?

Schools talk to other schools all of the time.

My guess is that Pitt talked to old rival Penn State....now one has to make the jump that it was at the ACC's direction..and, if so...ask soooo?

Probably part of some arcane legal strategy. Efficacy, or lack of same, will probably never come to light.

 

[B1GALUM]

We know that there will be phone calls back and forth between the Big Ten office and Maryland (Dr. Loh...the AD's office). We also know that the Big Ten has admitted talking to more then one school themselves.

I do not understand Maryland's reasoning...what does it matter if Wake and/or Pitt did talk to a couple of Big Ten schools? How does that impact Maryland?

Schools talk to other schools all of the time.

My guess is that Pitt talked to old rival Penn State....now one has to make the jump that it was at the ACC's direction..and, if so...ask soooo?

Agree with you regarding communication between schools. I think it is understandable that, via private conversation, a school might approach another school or be approached by another school regarding a change in conference affiliation. It is unfortunate though that the actual decision to change conference affiliation is made in private and without input from all those impacted by such an important decision: faculty, staff, students, alumni.

 

[SouthronCross]

I understand using Wake as a conduit since it's a private school. Not as easy to get FOI requests from them. But Pitt is a public school and subject to FOI's.

OK, I gotcha. I'm no legal eagle, and, what you say makes sense.

I thought Pitt was also private. Or, some sort of hybrid public-private.

 

[SouthronCross]

Far lower, I'd guess. Far lower.

I used the $30-35M figure since its somewhere in the middle. It could be what you say, or, the entire $52M.

 

[SouthronCross]

Agree with you regarding communication between schools. I think it is understandable that, via private conversation, a school might approach another school or be approached by another school regarding a change in conference affiliation. It is unfortunate though that the actual decision to change conference affiliation is made in private and without input from all those impacted by such an important decision: faculty, staff, students, alumni.

And, that is why former Terp hoops All-America Tom McMillen was so outspoken in his criticism of UMD's move. Not that he was 100 percent against it, but, he was upset about how it was all handled so covertly.

To a lesser degree, fans also suffer when moves are made. No major university athletic program can survive with support of those who have no intimate ties to the school itself.

 

[Fishy]

Well, we've been impacted all to hell and I don't recall anyone giving us a head's up. That was some covert s--- that happened to us, right there.

So f--- all you.

I hope your televisions conk out during the NIT.

 

[billybud]

Yep...covert shet is the best kind to dump.

When they dumped bed pans out of second story windows in the old country, did they yell "heads up"?

Of course not...no one wished someone to look up into the raining sewage. It was a mercy.

 

[Fishy]

Yep...covert shet is the best kind to dump.

When they dumped bed pans out of second story windows in the old country, did they yell "heads up"?

Of course not...no one wished someone to look up into the raining sewage. It was a mercy.

I don't know - we've had indoor plumbing around these parts for quite some time now.

 

[The Viking]

To some of the ACC folk, you really think Delany and his lawyers are going to let Maryland do this if they were afraid at all of what kind of reciprocal action the ACC could move forward with?

If he feared any response at all, he would tell maryland to cool it and cut a 50 million dollar check in a heartbeat if it came down to it in the very end. The B1G sneezed and 50 million in change falls out of their pockets.

Delany and the B1G are aware of what Maryland is doing and they clearly don't mind.

 

[btstimpy]

By the time all of the subpoenas are served, I am betting neither side will have the stomach for what discovery might reveal.

Of course, it could be a ploy by UMD to help bring this all to an approximately $30-35M end.

This is all more delay by Maryland in the main case. This counter claim really isn't Maryland's to make. It's the Big Ten's to make. The court probably will throw it out because Maryland has no standing.

It opens up the opportunity to subpoena all of the records that belong to whomever Pitt talked to. Then there are Wake's records and Maryland's records to be called for by subpoena. The Pitt request is so broad that there will need to be a hearing to figure out how to limit the request. Since Maryland is claiming poaching of the Big Ten by the ACC, a counter claim for treble damages of $450 million can be filed against the Big Ten. The Big Ten actually did poach schools, remember. We're talking months and months of delay.

On and on we go. Maryland should just have some dignity and character and pay the exit fee that Maryland was fully aware of before making this decision rather than try to drag this out like this. The ACC has all the time in the world and $35 million in offset from Maryland.

 

[TRest]

This is all more delay by Maryland in the main case. This counter claim really isn't Maryland's to make. It's the Big Ten's to make. The court probably will throw it out because Maryland has no standing.

It opens up the opportunity to subpoena all of the records that belong to whomever Pitt talked to. Then there are Wake's records and Maryland's records to be called for by subpoena. The Pitt request is so broad that there will need to be a hearing to figure out how to limit the request. Since Maryland is claiming poaching of the Big Ten by the ACC, a counter claim for treble damages of $450 million can be filed against the Big Ten. The Big Ten actually did poach schools, remember. We're talking months and months of delay.

On and on we go. Maryland should just have some dignity and character and pay the exit fee that Maryland was fully aware of before making this decision rather than try to drag this out like this. The ACC has all the time in the world and $35 million in offset from Maryland.

You ACC fans seem strangely upset by the idea of poaching schools. It's the only way you have kept your basketball relevant.

 

[btstimpy]

To some of the ACC folk, you really think Delany and his lawyers are going to let Maryland do this if they were afraid at all of what kind of reciprocal action the ACC could move forward with?

If he feared any response at all, he would tell maryland to cool it and cut a 50 million dollar check in a heartbeat if it came down to it in the very end. The B1G sneezed and 50 million in change falls out of their pockets.

Delany and the B1G are aware of what Maryland is doing and they clearly don't mind.

Nothing from Delaney and the B1G has been subpoenaed yet, and the court can order whatever is to remain confidential. But it is Maryland that is taking to case directly to the B1G and to members of the B1G with this counntersuit. The Counter Suit has a high probability of dismissal since most of it was dismissed once in Maryland court. And the part that wasn't has a good argument against it in standing.

Eventually, we'll all get back to the exit fee after all of Maryland's stall tactics are exhausted.

 

[btstimpy]

You ACC fans seem strangely upset by the idea of poaching schools. It's the only way you have kept your basketball relevant.

No. Most of us are perfectly fine with Maryland paying $52 million and getting the heck out of the ACC and going to the Big Ten.

 

[UConn9604]

On and on we go. Maryland should just have some dignity and character and pay the exit fee that Maryland was fully aware of before making this decision rather than try to drag this out like this. The ACC has all the time in the world and $35 million in offset from Maryland.

It's going to be easier for Maryland to claim that it has been damaged than it will be for the ACC, which upgraded in all sports by adding Louisville.

Here's the fundamental problem I have with the ACC's exit fee. Picture 12 people in a group walking into a meeting, at a time when the penalty for leaving the meeting being $17. All of a sudden, the first agenda item is to raise the penalty to $51. What options do you have?

In addition to proving that it has been damaged to the tune of $51 million, the ACC will also be forced to prove that it complied with its notice requirements.