Maryland’s $157 million counterclaim: ACC recruited B1G schools

[woomba]

Doesn't the SEC OWN part of their own network? Unlike the ACC?

No - the SEC opted for a 0% equity stake. It limits the upside but also very little risk.

 

[B1GALUM]

A few interesting comments, in my opinion, from OSU AD Gene Smith that were published in the Columbus Dispatch yesterday regarding the topic of this thread and the desire of the B1G for an east coast presence.
http://buckeyextra.dispatch.com/content/stories/2014/02/02/smith-sees-progress-wants-more.html

Q: When you look at Rutgers and Maryland, they haven’t set the world afire and Rutgers has had its issues with coaches and its AD. Do you still feel those are good additions?

A: I do. We could have gone a number of ways. I think it was great for the league and really good for Penn State. People haven’t focused on that enough. Penn State was sitting out there like an appendage. Anybody could have plucked them. The ACC could have plucked them.

The other one was the lock up a little bit of the East Coast with television. We’re doing that. We’re going to Navy next year. We’re playing in the Ravens stadium

A few questions come to my mind and unfortunate, in my opinion, that the reporter did not follow up further on the answer given by Gene Smith.

What other ways could the B1G have gone or have been (are being) discussed?

How much consideration was (or is) Penn State giving to a move to the ACC?

Is locking up a "little bit of the East Coast" sufficient or does the B1G desire an even greater East Coast presence and how would that be accomplished?

 

[upstater]

WVU is also the same team that Syracuse beat three straight years with the last game in the Pinstripe bowl in 2012, the team that hapless Maryland murdered 37-0 this year.

WVU has won the big bowl game against Clemson but has also lost bowl games to FSU, North Carolina, NC State, Virginia, and Georgia Tech. The 2009 bowl where a 6-6 FSU beat the Eers by double digits, the 2010 bowl, where NC State's defense shut them down to 7 points, the 2012 bowl where Syracuse beat them by 24 points, are not indicative of a team that would have "hip checked" the rest of the ACC

Yeah, West Virginia had some good years with Pat White and Steve Slayton, but that high level of success was fairly short lived.

You can't really play that game of who beat who. Or, if you want to play that game, you should have invited UConn for its football, because Uconn had a winning record against Syracuse, Pitt, and Louisville.

 

[upstater]

Shoot...Women's basketball is for girls!

One thing about Uconn women's basketball, it makes more money for UConn than college baseball teams, college hockey, many men's college basketball teams, etc.

 

[SouthronCross]

A few interesting comments, in my opinion, from OSU AD Gene Smith that were published in the Columbus Dispatch yesterday regarding the topic of this thread and the desire of the B1G for an east coast presence.
http://buckeyextra.dispatch.com/content/stories/2014/02/02/smith-sees-progress-wants-more.html

Q: When you look at Rutgers and Maryland, they haven’t set the world afire and Rutgers has had its issues with coaches and its AD. Do you still feel those are good additions?

A: I do. We could have gone a number of ways. I think it was great for the league and really good for Penn State. People haven’t focused on that enough. Penn State was sitting out there like an appendage. Anybody could have plucked them. The ACC could have plucked them.

The other one was the lock up a little bit of the East Coast with television. We’re doing that. We’re going to Navy next year. We’re playing in the Ravens stadium

A few questions come to my mind and unfortunate, in my opinion, that the reporter did not follow up further on the answer given by Gene Smith.

What other ways could the B1G have gone or have been (are being) discussed?

I think it was very much public knowledge that Jim Delany wanted UNC and UVA. It would've pushed the B1G into the South, and, helped destroy the ACC at the same time. I do think that he underestimated just how committed both schools were to keeping the league together.

I also believe that he was giving serious consideration to UConn. But, their not being AAU was/is a roadblock. Which makes no sense to me. The B1G knew full well that Nebraska was going to lose their AAU status after they joined, but, they voted to accept them ayway. Which means to me that the AAU designation is not as all important as they would lead you to believe.

I still think he might want Texas, but, UT does not play well with others. So, they're going to be a tough sell, IMHO.

How much consideration was (or is) Penn State giving to a move to the ACC?

At first, I might've said 'not much at all,' until Wisconsin AD Barry Alvarez pointed out that UMD and Rutgers gave PSU the eastern rivals that they'd wanted ever since they'd joined the B1G.

Just maybe PSU DID talk to ACC folks through backchannels. Just maybe they did feel like the B1G did not have their back when the Jerry Sandusky case was settled. I honestly do not know.

I have read on their boards that some of their older alumni did like the idea of joining the ACC, but, it was not in numbers great enough to even make a blip on the radar screens of their powers-that-be. Their younger alumni and students are 100 percent B1G supporters. Its the league that they grew up with, and, they like the football culture that they B1G has, and, that the ACC just cannot match leaguewide.

Is locking up a "little bit of the East Coast" sufficient or does the B1G desire an even greater East Coast presence and how would that be accomplished?

I think that the B1G still desire a much larger east coast presence, and, that UMD and RU are a way to sort of get their feet wet. At this point, at least, having a little east coast presence is better than having none at all.

TBT, Delany has multiple ways he can go. He could still try and pry UNC and UVA loose from the ACC, but, thats a longer term proposition now that the ACC has its own GOR. Or, he could go and get Oklahoma and Kansas from the Big 12, which would all but end that league. Or, he could be really bold, and, grab Missouri from the SEC, and, maybe get a single Big 12 team, like OU.

Just thinking aloud...

 

[B1GALUM]

I think that the B1G still desire a much larger east coast presence, and, that UMD and RU are a way to sort of get their feet wet. At this point, at least, having a little east coast presence is better than having none at all.

TBT, Delany has multiple ways he can go. He could still try and pry UNC and UVA loose from the ACC, but, thats a longer term proposition now that the ACC has its own GOR. Or, he could go and get Oklahoma and Kansas from the Big 12, which would all but end that league. Or, he could be really bold, and, grab Missouri from the SEC, and, maybe get a single Big 12 team, like OU.

Just thinking aloud...

Despite Delany's wishes, I do not think UNC and UVA were ever nor will ever really be options for the B1G. It seems to me the interest has never been reciprocal despite speculation to the contrary. Due to geography, history, rivalries it is hard to envision any defections, with or without a GOR, from the southern core of the ACC: UVA, VT, UNC, NC State, Duke, WF, Clemson, Georgia Tech, FSU, Miami. The ACC could exist and thrive with just these members as part of a ten team conference if the emerging super conferences ever implode.

I think Delany and the B1G, if they want more of a presence in NYC and the East Coast, may have and still do need to consider UConn as one of the "number of ways". The conventional wisdom is that conference realignment is over; however, there have been enough B1G ADs who have spoken about the idea and even ideal of a 16 team conference - even after the ACC GOR - that it seems more is to come. A play for OU and KU to bring a football and basketball brand as well as pacify Nebraska as the western "appendage" of the B1G is certainly a consideration and more likely, in my opinion, than any more additions from the ACC. This seems to conflict though with the goal Delany has stated on multiple occasions of the B1G being a bi-regional conference. The eyes of the B1G, if you will, seem focused eastward and not westward.

 

[Fishy]

Here's the rub for future expansion of any ilk....there aren't enough loose ends left.

If the Big 12 wants to expand, there's Cincinnati and nothing. I doubt they're going to want to go slumming for the fourth or fifth best programs in Florida and Brigham Young is like adding a square peg in a world of round holes.

The ACC wants to expand, there's UConn and nothing. Forget Cincinnati.

If the Big Ten wants to expand, there's UConn and nothing. Missouri would have to be pretty happy with their current digs and everything else is encumbered with a grant of rights.

 

[billybud]

One thing about Uconn women's basketball, it makes more money for UConn than college baseball teams, college hockey, many men's college basketball teams, etc.

It should....Women's basketball at UConn is a big deal...the second sport after men's BB.

 

[Fishy]

It should....Women's basketball at UConn is a big deal...the second sport after men's BB.

You don't know f--- about UConn, hayseed, so slow the trolling.

(Although, our chick hoop team likely pulls down more coin than FSU's men's team.)

 

[upstater]

It should....Women's basketball at UConn is a big deal...the second sport after men's BB.

So, are you still on your Syracuse beat WV kick? Still think that's relevant? If so, explain why UConn's record against the 3 ACC additions means little to you.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I think that the B1G still desire a much larger east coast presence, and, that UMD and RU are a way to sort of get their feet wet. At this point, at least, having a little east coast presence is better than having none at all.

TBT, Delany has multiple ways he can go. He could still try and pry UNC and UVA loose from the ACC, but, thats a longer term proposition now that the ACC has its own GOR. Or, he could go and get Oklahoma and Kansas from the Big 12, which would all but end that league. Or, he could be really bold, and, grab Missouri from the SEC, and, maybe get a single Big 12 team, like OU.

Just thinking aloud...

My greatest wish is in the short-term, the XII releases West Virginia from it's agreement and WV joins the ACC to replace Louisville who leaves for the SEC slot that Missouri opens when they jump for there better cultural match with the B1G who then adds UConn to get to 16. The XII then replaces WVU with BYU and adds USF and UCF (sorry Cincy, nothing personal; but, they do go ACC later). That fixes a lot of problems for everyone. Later, Texas blows up the XII and the B1G adds Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and ND (B1G with teams in NYC, DC, and Texas outweighs disdain for B1G). UConn ends up in a B1G 'East' pod made up of 1) UConn, 2) Rutgers, 3) Maryland, 4) Penn St, 5) Notre Dame.

A few hours later, the alarm goes off, I take a cold shower, and UConn is in the AAC.

 

[bingethinker]

My greatest wish is in the short-term, the XII releases West Virginia from it's agreement and WV joins the ACC to replace Louisville who leaves for the SEC slot that Missouri opens when they jump for there better cultural match with the B1G who then adds UConn to get to 16. The XII then replaces WVU with BYU and adds USF and UCF (sorry Cincy, nothing personal; but, they do go ACC later). That fixes a lot of problems for everyone. Later, Texas blows up the XII and the B1G adds Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and ND (B1G with teams in NYC, DC, and Texas outweighs disdain for B1G). UConn ends up in a B1G 'East' pod made up of 1) UConn, 2) Rutgers, 3) Maryland, 4) Penn St, 5) Notre Dame.

A few hours later, the alarm goes off, I take a cold shower, and UConn is in the AAC.

I don't want Notre Dame anywhere near the Big Ten. Let the ACC have its 5 games.

The ideal group for a 20-member Big Ten Conference is:

B1G East: Connecticut, Indiana, Maryland, Michigan, Michigan State, North Carolina, Ohio State, Penn State, Rutgers, Virginia
B1G West: Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Oklahoma, Purdue, Texas, Wisconsin

As wacky as that configuration looks, I'd bet money it'd happen before Notre Dame would join the B1G.

 

[CL82]

I agree with Fishy that it is tough to see a move that makes sense with the pieces that are still on the board. I also know that the conference realignment moves to date have pretty much been unforeseen. That's my (desperate, perhaps unrealistic) hope, that:

1) there is a move coming;
2) it moves Connecticut to the a better conference (hopefully the B1G); and
3) it happens before the Big East money that we are due runs out.

I don't think that it is a particularly realistic hope, but at least it is hope.

 

[btstimpy]

You should add the school who won the field hockey and women's basketball national champs to that list. We can forward inquiries to the appropriate folks.

I'm game. If we can get the football contingent in the league more comfortable with that program, these women's programs are gravy. I'm all about Director's Cup. The UConn Men's basketball isn't #1 at the moment, but it has been there in the past decade. I like the fit.

 

[btstimpy]

Here's the rub for future expansion of any ilk....there aren't enough loose ends left.

If the Big 12 wants to expand, there's Cincinnati and nothing. I doubt they're going to want to go slumming for the fourth or fifth best programs in Florida and Brigham Young is like adding a square peg in a world of round holes.

The ACC wants to expand, there's UConn and nothing. Forget Cincinnati.

If the Big Ten wants to expand, there's UConn and nothing. Missouri would have to be pretty happy with their current digs and everything else is encumbered with a grant of rights.

In the next couple of years, this is true. But if the sport of football continues to drive the support it does in the psyche of the American Public, it will translate into more expansion. A lot depends on how the American Athletic Conference does along with the Mountain West and Conference USA. We're seeing teams enter Conference USA and the Sunbelt that weren't around 5 years ago at FBS level. Twenty years ago I don't think USF or UCF had football teams. We've had Big Ten people talking about SUNY Buffalo on this board and others. Who knows where this will end up. I don't think it is static. As long as there is an appetite for more, there will be more.

 

[Fishy]

Perhaps you're right, stimp, and I sure as hell hope you are.

But here is my worry....

Expansion had a purpose - it was a consolidation of power and money.

The ACC set out to destroy the Big East as a competitor and they did. The Big Ten might have been setting out to destroy the ACC and failed....but in any event, the networks have put away the checkbooks and the P5 conferences have finished erecting their security walls.

The stopping point might be artificial, but it's still real. Those inside on the walls are dealing with $20-30M a year more in television revenue than those outside the walls. They've consolidated bowls and they will move towards nine game schedules. And now they are proposing changing rules to exploit their advantages in exposure and revenue - the idea is to suffocate everything outside the P5.

Schools that were able to rise under the old rules will now find themselves running out of oxygen - and that's the point of all this. Not sure there will be anything left to expand with in ten years.

 

[billybud]

I think that Fishy may be right....

Schools could move up in football and did...there was a stair step...move from non FBS into CUSA, MWC, etc...step up into the Big East.

Then, get snatched out of the Big East by the ACC (who had to be perceived as the next rung on the ladder or teams wouldn't be snatched).

There has been, of late, an FBS proliferation. Teams like UAB, Middle Tennessee, FIU, North Texas, Texas San Antonio, Texas State, South Alabama, Georgia State and others...all moved to FBS.

There came to be a fiction...that all teams in FBS all really played for the same prize and were really in the same league.

It became a league that ranged from the Alabama's and Ohio State's of the football world to the Georgia State's and Middle Tennessee's.

It became an unwieldy fiction. Matches between the Alabama's and Ohio State's vs Texas State or Middle Tennessee drew little public interest, and less media dollars. And, while there could be a rare good game out of these matches, the non BCS teams, over the BCS era, lost 81% of their games with BCS teams.

There is now a movement to draw back in as the P5 and maybe break away... as Fishy has pointed out, to maximize resources. The poker players at the big table will have most of the chips and there will be fewer paths to move up to the Big Table.

While I think that Fishy is right in the short term, in the very long run, there will be some movement up.

As teams and demographics change slowly over time, there will be emerging powerhouses and submerging former P5 teams. And there will be demand for the play of the emergents.

 

[Sea Goat]

Any process that resulted in WVU, Rutgers, Syra...., Maryland, Pitt and Louisville ending up safely ensconced in P-5 conferences and UConn left out is a bull$h!t process.
Please no more paternalistic about how UConn and the AAC has to mind their Ps and Qs and perform well to have any chance in the next beauty contest. Re: CR, the ACC has sold its soul (and academic standards) and gave in to the pathetic, revengeful lot trolling around Chestnut Hill. Long term, it will harm you - ACC. We'll get out of this purgatory sometime (an appropriate reference to satisfy the two-faced padres AT Bf...ingC). In another tip of the cap to the high and mighty hypocrites, I PRAY it's the B1G.

 

[billybud]

A lot of emotion laden posts on the subject because fandom can be a painful experience

Yes UConn was left out....the "process" was not a meritocracy.

There were multiple factors that interplayed.

One might, while railing, wonder why the Big Ten took Maryland and Rutgers over UConn. Better football? basketball? branding? markets? There is no single thing that I could put my finger on as an uninformed fan.

 

[billybud]

Several Big Ten AD's have been on the record about the Maryland/Rutgers move as a Penn State "stabilizer".

The latest was Ohio State's AD...

Q: When you look at Rutgers and Maryland, they haven’t set the world afire and Rutgers has had its issues with coaches and its AD. Do you still feel those are good additions?

A: I do. We could have gone a number of ways. I think it was great for the league and really good for Penn State. People haven’t focused on that enough. Penn State was sitting out there like an appendage. Anybody could have plucked them. The ACC could have plucked them.

 

[Sea Goat]

A lot of emotion laden posts on the subject because fandom can be a painful experience

Yes UConn was left out....the "process" was not a meritocracy.

There were multiple factors that interplayed.

One might, while railing, wonder why the Big Ten took Maryland and Rutgers over UConn. Better football? basketball? branding? markets? There is no single thing that I could put my finger on as an uninformed fan.

Emotion laden posts? More paternalism? No thanks.

Maryland and Rutgers... Better football? BB? Branding? Markets? Doubt it - maybe it was AAU afterall...

Getting back to your bailiwick - the ACC, no question a ton of resentment and revenge involved. Add to that the ACC selling out academically, it was curtains for UConn.

 

[specialisthusky]

A lot of emotion laden posts on the subject because fandom can be a painful experience

Yes UConn was left out....the "process" was not a meritocracy.

There were multiple factors that interplayed.

One might, while railing, wonder why the Big Ten took Maryland and Rutgers over UConn. Better football? basketball? branding? markets? There is no single thing that I could put my finger on as an uninformed fan.

AAU

 

[billybud]

Emotion laden posts? More paternalism? No thanks.

yeah...anything I post will be labeled. I know.

But the posts do display a lot of emotion....it is not just a cerebral exercise to a fan.

Please, if my posts offend you, scroll on by. It is not intentional.

 

[Sea Goat]

Several Big Ten AD's have been on the record about the Maryland/Rutgers move as a Penn State "stabilizer".

The latest was Ohio State's AD...

Q: When you look at Rutgers and Maryland, they haven’t set the world afire and Rutgers has had its issues with coaches and its AD. Do you still feel those are good additions?

A: I do. We could have gone a number of ways. I think it was great for the league and really good for Penn State. People haven’t focused on that enough. Penn State was sitting out there like an appendage. Anybody could have plucked them. The ACC could have plucked them.

Didn't Maryland jump from the ACC to the B1G? Who ended up getting plucked? The ACC?
(And I really don't give a pluck because UConn was left out!)

 

[billybud]

The question was..."why not UConn"...not where did the chosen teams come from.

The Big Ten had their reasons...just as the ACC had their reasons..