Maryland’s $157 million counterclaim: ACC recruited B1G schools

[SouthronCross]

Could you please provide a source -- any source -- that indicates President Loh or any Maryland official sought (or planned to seek) a no-cost ACC exit for UMD? I'm really excited to see the links you can provide to support your claim.

Loh is a lawyer. I find it really hard to believe that he or a designee thought for one second that the Terps would be in the Big Ten without having paid some sort of fee to leave the ACC. And he certainly didn't "decide that UMD was not going to pay it at all." That's a preposterous claim -- even by message board standards.

There are no links, as my post comes from conversations with UMD alums and fans, who live locally, and, they say that is the university's plan. How plugged in they are, I have no idea. You can take up your issue with them.

I should have made that point clear when I made my post. I didn't. My bad.

Loh decided to do what EVERY high-major college president has done when its university has switched conferences: He either paid the exit fee or challenged it and let the courts settle the matter. In this instance, the courts will decide the final amount, Maryland will pay (or perhaps be owed money by the ACC), and life will go on for Maryland and the ACC.

The final amount will likely be below what the ACC is asking, and, slightly above what UMD wants to pay. Somewhere in the $30M range is my guess.

I'm really not sure why a small but vocal contingent of ACC fans on this board spend so much of their time dogging Maryland, a school they claim to not care about losing.

I do not spend time dogging UMD. I, in fact, think it sucks that UMD will no longer be in the same league as UNC and NCSU. They've been conference mates for 107 years (as of the end of this academic year). Both have played some memorable games against the Terps in my lifetime, and, I will miss that. But, lets face it, UMD fans don't show up for ACC games anymore, and, haven't for awhile. FTR, UNC fans do not travel like FSU, CU, or VPI, either.

What I for sure have said is that if UMD no longer wants to be here, then, they cannot leave soon enough. I wish them good luck in the B1G. Because I believe you are going to need it. Louisville WANTS to be here, and, I believe that they are an upgrade athletically. Especially for football. I actually wanted UConn when UMD chose to leave. I still hope they'll get in.

 

[bingethinker]

Lol...I see. You don't dog Maryland, but in the very next sentence you took a inexplicable dig that had NOTHING to do with ANYTHING. What does attendance have to do with this conversation? Especially when attendance is down across the board in the ACC and has been for the last five years. But I'll leave it alone.

Anyway, you're a good man for admitting to posting unverifiable anecdotes and passing them off as fact. Some folks would've kept it going. None of these "fans" know what the University and Doug Gansler's office plan to do. Donors -- except maybe Plank and Gossett -- are not privy to those details. Business just doesn't work that way.

 

[billybud]

There is no source (if you have one, please link) that says that Maryland has voluntarily paid a dime of their $20 million, nor intended to.

Maryland, and their law suit is the source, objected to the ACC garnishing their payouts. Claimed, even after their "we are leaving the ACC" press conference arm in arm with Delany, that the ACC could not withhold monies because they had not given notice.

To think that Maryland had intent to pay the $20 million is balderdash. They were hoping for a quick settlement.

Maryland was flat broke (plenty of references)...and desperate.

 

[SAMCRO]

Who the hell knows what UMd was or is planning to pay. It seems pretty evident that UMd has not paid a dime to the ACC up to this point, which is why the ACC is witholding money. If you are UMd, why would you pay anything now if youare in the middle of contesting the amount you should actually pay. From what I've read on this insanely well informed and in the know message board (key work, insanely) is people thought UMd would ultimatley end up paying in the mid $20's, but not the full $52 they (and FSU) never signed up for.

I'm no fancy book learning lawyer, I'm just simple caveman, but I would think their first approach would be (and was) we shouldn't have to pay anyhting since there was no financial harm in our leaving, to which the ACC would counter (and did), BS you pay the full $52 per the bylaws, and they dance this dance back and forth - as they've done, and ultimately a compromise happens and they settle an amount somewhere between $20M and $52M (i'm guessing mid-upper $20's).

The ACC has to contest and fight for the full fee otherwise they leave a door open for others to balk at the exit fee. End of the day, all will settle without airing all the dirty laundry that goes on in the Game of Conference Realignment. A certain network with mouse ears will make sure of that.

 

[itgoeslike]

Why would Maryland prepay the exit fee, especially when you consider they were sued first by the ACC? Perhaps, one would if there was a tactical advantage. I can't see any logical reason for Maryland doing so in advance of a settlement. If you combine a prepayment of $20M with the monies being withheld by the ACC you end up being close to $50M, if not slightly more.

The irony is that B12 and ACC officials were at times publicly appalled that the Big East would try to "block" a team's exit. Meanwhile, Swofford and the ACC have built up the biggest walls and taken up the greatest action against a departing school. So, for some UConn fans it rings hollow when we read how Maryland deserves to pay a steep price for exiting. In the end, the ACC's actions could be indicative of who's really desperate. In this case, it doesn't appear to be Maryland.

 

[06029]

Except no one is blocking MD from leaving. The BE tried to stop teams from leaving even if they followed procedures in bylaws. The issue here is the fee associated with leaving not the act of leaving.

 

[Stinger92860]

I want to see Maryland leave for 0 dollars. Why? Because it will create chaos and movement. We need this.

 

[itgoeslike]

Except no one is blocking MD from leaving. The BE tried to stop teams from leaving even if they followed procedures in bylaws. The issue here is the fee associated with leaving not the act of leaving.

I have to disagree. The ACC's $51M exit fee was put in place to impede the departure of an exiting team. That fee is enforced even when a team provides notice and follows the bylaws, which to my knowledge, Maryland has done. GOR aside, many would consider that alone as "blocking". With regard to the Big East, they required 27 months advance notice to depart. WVU wanted to depart an 8-team league in less than 12 months, which resulted in the legal action (WVU filed first). Syracuse and PITT stuck around long enough to incur a modest bump in the exit fee to depart early. Notre Dame left per the advantageous terms of their agreement. Louisville took steps early on to start the clock ticking on their departure so it was relatively amiable. I don't see much difference in both conferences actions, except that the ACC has put in place a much higher hurdle.

 

[billybud]

It is really all relatively unimportant right now..at least to me.

Maryland is going to the B1G...The ACC has refilled with Louisville....the rest is just side bar drama.

It really isn't about the money...it is more likely "let's make this as miserable as we can" for the Terps.

"Are you watching this.. FSU, Virginia, Clemson?"

It is akin to Santa Ana's ordering the bugles to play the DeGuello....the call for no quarter.

 

[SouthronCross]

Lol...I see. You don't dog Maryland, but in the very next sentence you took a inexplicable dig that had NOTHING to do with ANYTHING. What does attendance have to do with this conversation? Especially when attendance is down across the board in the ACC and has been for the last five years. But I'll leave it alone.

LOL...after I said I did not dog Maryland, I believe, that in the very next sentence, I said that it sucks UMD would not be in the same leagues as UNC and NCSU anymore. After 107 years. And, that the Terps had played some memorable games against the Heels and Pack in my own lifetime. You call THAT a dig? Wow, tough room.

Granted the attendance reference was probably not apropos for this discussion.

Now, if you want to take issue with my second paragraph, thats fair enough. I have maintained that POV since UMD made their announcement. Wouldn't you feel that way, if the roles were reversed, and, UNC was the one leaving? I am guessing that you would. But, thats just me.

Anyway, you're a good man for admitting to posting unverifiable anecdotes and passing them off as fact. Some folks would've kept it going. None of these "fans" know what the University and Doug Gansler's office plan to do. Donors -- except maybe Plank and Gossett -- are not privy to those details. Business just doesn't work that way.

Yeah, admittedly not my finest moment as a poster by a longshot. Lesson learned.

 

[billybud]

Well...I won't apologize for my disdain for Maryland's football program.

The Terps have made BC look like world beaters. Maryland's lousy 2-20 record against FSU was indicative of how bad an opponent they have been (along with Duke).

NC State, BC, Wake..now they have at least given some competition to the Noles at times.

The 63-0 goodbye drubbing that the Noles gave the Terps was an embarrassment.

goodbye....I won't miss you...sincerely, an unapologetic Billy

Yeah, admittedly not my finest moment as a poster by a longshot. Lesson learned.

 

[itgoeslike]

Maryland will leave for the Big 10 and the ACC will receive some form of "compensation". The amount of the judgement/settlement will not affect this event from happening. However, if the amount is at either end of the spectrum, it will have implications, at least in my opinion. The amount likely ends up somewhere in the middle.

 

[SouthronCross]

Who the hell knows what UMd was or is planning to pay. It seems pretty evident that UMd has not paid a dime to the ACC up to this point, which is why the ACC is witholding money. If you are UMd, why would you pay anything now if youare in the middle of contesting the amount you should actually pay. From what I've read on this insanely well informed and in the know message board (key work, insanely) is people thought UMd would ultimatley end up paying in the mid $20's, but not the full $52 they (and FSU) never signed up for.

I'm no fancy book learning lawyer, I'm just simple caveman, but I would think their first approach would be (and was) we shouldn't have to pay anyhting since there was no financial harm in our leaving, to which the ACC would counter (and did), BS you pay the full $52 per the bylaws, and they dance this dance back and forth - as they've done, and ultimately a compromise happens and they settle an amount somewhere between $20M and $52M (i'm guessing mid-upper $20's).

I would not say there is no financial harm to UMD leaving. As has been pointed out on this board, by several folks (not just ACCers), the ACC is losing a part of its presence within the DC market, and, is losing the Baltimore market altogether. That is not small potatoes.

What this really comes down to is procedure. Did the ACC follow its own bylaws in implementing the new $52M exit fee, or, not?

The ACC has to contest and fight for the full fee otherwise they leave a door open for others to balk at the exit fee. End of the day, all will settle without airing all the dirty laundry that goes on in the Game of Conference Realignment. A certain network with mouse ears will make sure of that.

Like you, I am no legal eagle, but, IMHO, if the $52M is ruled against, the original $20M fee will still stand. I also believe both parties will settle for an amount closer to about $30M. Probably to include the amount that the ACC has already withheld from UMD. Just one fan's guess. Take it FWIW.

 

[06029]

I have to disagree. The ACC's $51M exit fee was put in place to impede the departure of an exiting team. That fee is enforced even when a team provides notice and follows the bylaws, which to my knowledge, Maryland has done. GOR aside, many would consider that alone as "blocking". With regard to the Big East, they required 27 months advance notice to depart. WVU wanted to depart an 8-team league in less than 12 months, which resulted in the legal action (WVU filed first). Syracuse and PITT stuck around long enough to incur a modest bump in the exit fee to depart early. Notre Dame left per the advantageous terms of their agreement. Louisville took steps early on to start the clock ticking on their departure so it was relatively amiable. I don't see much difference in both conferences actions, except that the ACC has put in place a much higher hurdle.

Bylaws say give notice pay fee leave. it is pretty somple unless you do not want to pay.

 

[SouthronCross]

Why would Maryland prepay the exit fee, especially when you consider they were sued first by the ACC? Perhaps, one would if there was a tactical advantage. I can't see any logical reason for Maryland doing so in advance of a settlement. If you combine a prepayment of $20M with the monies being withheld by the ACC you end up being close to $50M, if not slightly more.

The irony is that B12 and ACC officials were at times publicly appalled that the Big East would try to "block" a team's exit. Meanwhile, Swofford and the ACC have built up the biggest walls and taken up the greatest action against a departing school. So, for some UConn fans it rings hollow when we read how Maryland deserves to pay a steep price for exiting.

Its not about UMD deserving to pay a steep price for leaving. It never has been. It is about the ACC asking UMD to abide by terms of exiting the league, as voted on by the league's membership. Just because you vote against something, regardless of why, does not mean you are not bound by the vote's outcome.

If its shown that the ACC correctly followed its bylaws in implementing the new exit fee, UMD will be on the hook for the full $52M. I actually believe the final amount they pay will be around $30M, plus or minus what the ACC has already withheld.

Just remember, the exit fees, both the original $20M, and, the $52M, were not just foisted upon the league's members by John Swofford. Both of those fees...the original an idea conceived by UMD's own president Loh...were voted on by, and, passed by, the league membership. Its never been about keeping anybody in against their will,for the 10 who voted for the $52M, its been about committing to staying together.

In the end, the ACC's actions could be indicative of who's really desperate. In this case, it doesn't appear to be Maryland.

Oh, really? Maryland WAS desperate. No two ways about it. That is why they moved. According to multiple reports, UMD's athletic department was very much deep in the red when they accepted the B1G's offer, and, they did not think that they could make it off of what the ACC was getting, going forward. Which is somewhat confusing, seeing as how peer institutions such as UNC and UVA were doing ok.

 

[SouthronCross]

Except no one is blocking MD from leaving. The BE tried to stop teams from leaving even if they followed procedures in bylaws. The issue here is the fee associated with leaving not the act of leaving.

And, UMD is contesting that the ACC violated its own bylaws, with regards as to how the new exit fee was brought up to a vote, and, passed.

 

[CL82]

I want to see Maryland leave for 0 dollars. Why? Because it will create chaos and movement. We need this.

Same, although I think he ACC recognized this risk and mitigated that risk by going to a GOR. My fantasy outcome is that Maryland stays, 'ville's bid gets retracted and the B1G takes us to fill MD's slot. Sure it's unlikely but that won't stop HFD from posting about it in month or so.

 

[itgoeslike]

Oh, really? Maryland WAS desperate. No two ways about it. That is why they moved. According to multiple reports, UMD's athletic department was very much deep in the red when they accepted the B1G's offer, and, they did not think that they could make it off of what the ACC was getting, going forward. Which is somewhat confusing, seeing as how peer institutions such as UNC and UVA were doing ok.

Yes, most people are aware Maryland was under financial pressure and switched conferences primarily for financial reasons. However, the ACC has gone farther than any other conference, including the B12, to corral their members, which is what I was commenting on. We'll see what happens, but if the court rules against the $52M figure and it reverts to $20M that would be very bad for the ACC. As I said earlier, they probably settle for $35M and both sides claim victory.

 

[SouthronCross]

Yes, most people are aware Maryland was under financial pressure and switched conferences primarily for financial reasons. However, the ACC has gone farther than any other conference, including the B12, to corral their members, which is what I was commenting on. We'll see what happens, but if the court rules against the $52M figure and it reverts to $20M that would be very bad for the ACC. As I said earlier, they probably settle for $35M and both sides claim victory.

The vast majority of ACC schools planned to stick together all along. That is what gets lost in all of the CR talk.

JMHO, but, I honestly think FSU had some backchannel talks with the Big 12. Clemson may have as well, but, their intentions were made known the minute Dabo Swinney came out and said it would be a mistake for CU to leave their historic rivals, and, primary recruiting grounds (SC-NC-GA-FL). And, that they could accomplish everything that they wanted from the ACC. When they decided to stay, FSU did, too. Because they were not going to the Big 12 alone.

 

[NEforceUConn]

And now FSU is the NC, and chances of a repeat are steady. However ND has the sweetest deal of anyone in the ACC, and that fact should and will eat at the heart of all FSU supporters over time. FSU has been, is, and will be ACC football - and yet ND has a better deal.

Maybe FSU should change their colors to green with envy. Methinks the FSU/Big 12 talk rumours will come again at some point.

 

[billybud]

FSU guys aren't envious of Notre Dame...and ND doesn't have that sweet of a deal.

Oh boy...they did get to play in the Pin Stripe Bowl. One step up the frozen tundra ladder from the Bowl in Boise.

And, if they ever are the opponent of an ACC team in the Orange Bowl...they take home half of what an opponent from any conference would get.

FSU guys really look forward to playing Notre Dame again next year.

 

[billybud]

I do realize that a lot of fans from former Big East teams feel butt hurt about Notre Dame. But much of the fault of how Notre Dame took advantage of the BE lies with the conference for poor negotiations and poor contract language.

 

[Fishy]

I do realize that a lot of fans from former Big East teams feel butt hurt about Notre Dame. But much of the fault of how Notre Dame took advantage of the BE lies with the conference for poor negotiations and poor contract language.

I don't think we much care - they bent the ACC over, too.

It was inevitable that they'd eventually find another conference to smother. There are no national programs in the ACC and even the prospect of playing Notre Dame every fourth or fifth year is worth swallowing ND's nuts.

 

[billybud]

Sounds butt hurt to me....

 

[billybud]

You find much of that Notre Dame angst on UConn and WVU boards....but not on ACC boards.

We ACC fans seem to be very contented with the arrangement of having Notre Dame play five football games a year as an OOC team and play the other sports as conference.

Admittedly...The Big East did not have this same arrangement...did not get five games a year, did have Notre Dame poaching good bowls, etc.