Maryland’s $157 million counterclaim: ACC recruited B1G schools

[Vuce]

A lot of people scoffed when LVille was first mentioned as UConn's main competition for a spot.

That is very true. Uconn has plenty to offer athletically when matched with Louisville. Early on I think many folks did not anticipate that the ACC would take a school rated where Louisville was academically. Obviously, they did.

 

[IMind]

That is very true. Uconn has plenty to offer athletically when matched with Louisville. Early on I think many folks did not anticipate that the ACC would take a school rated where Louisville was academically. Obviously, they did.

Exactly they made such a show about academic reputation... which obviously means nothing now. I think it's why everyone outside of FSU and Louisville seemed to assume it would be UConn.

 

[ZooCougar]

The overall stupidity in that thread is amazing. However, perception means a lot. UConn has to do a better job getting the message out.

And we can help by countering with facts or at least opinions backed up by quasi-facts in our favor. Honestly, the thread may be BS but at least we're in the hunt so to speak.

 

[ZooCougar]

Exactly they made such a show about academic reputation... which obviously means nothing now. I think it's why everyone outside of FSU and Louisville seemed to assume it would be UConn.

I think the ACC has departed completely from Academics as a major factor. But we still are a better candidate than UCF and Cincy. Football is going to surge back. Basketball will stay strong.

I actually have some confidence that Warde will be able to maintain the revenue gap over UCF and Cincy. Just look at where Bob Diaco is putting the emphasis. Ticket Sales. Ticket Sales. Ticket Sales.

That tells me that Warde has given Bob guidance. "Get the program sexy again so that we can fill the Rent and make more money". All the other goodness will follow.

 

[CL82]

I think the ACC has departed completely from Academics as a major factor. But we still are a better candidate than UCF and Cincy. Football is going to surge back. Basketball will stay strong.

I actually have some confidence that Warde will be able to maintain the revenue gap over UCF and Cincy. Just look at where Bob Diaco is putting the emphasis. Ticket Sales. Ticket Sales. Ticket Sales.

That tells me that Warde has given Bob guidance. "Get the program s e xy again so that we can fill the Rent and make more money". All the other goodness will follow.

..or that Diaco came from a program where this was the norm, or that Diaco is savvy guy who knows what he'll need to do to take the program, and himself to the next level.

 

[NickyNewark]

A bit OT but what I like about the BD hire is he may have a bone to pick with BC over hiring Dazzy after he interviewed. Recruiting war's with BC should prove interesting going into next year esp locally!

 

[06029]

A bit OT but what I like about the BD hire is he may have a bone to pick with BC over hiring Dazzy after he interviewed. Recruiting war's with BC should prove interesting going into next year esp locally!

A few things -
1. Winning and showing what your program is and will be attracts recruits when you are coming off 3 dismal seasons in a row,
2. Uconn needs to beef up its OOC schedule as much as possible. Kids want to play and compete against top national programs. Next year, the AAC will lack any program that fits that bill.
3. If Diaco has a thing against BC, he should have it against several other schools too that passed on him over the past several years.
4. Diaco has not coached a single game yet as head coach, anywhere. The road is littered with former head coaches that "get" it and "say" the right things. Even from the most tradition laden programs in the country. Results/wins is the only metric that matters.
5. While this recruiting class will be given a pass, the visitor/commit list save the RB who had an offer from Lville, does not scream building a championship contender. Next year, he needs to have Adazzio like success in recruiting. While stars may not mean everything, they are not 100% irrelevant. BC has 3 four * and 14 3* recruits this year. That is the type of class Uconn needs to have in place 1 year from today.

 

[NickyNewark]

A few things -
1. Winning and showing what your program is and will be attracts recruits when you are coming off 3 dismal seasons in a row,
2. Uconn needs to beef up its OOC schedule as much as possible. Kids want to play and compete against top national programs. Next year, the AAC will lack any program that fits that bill.
3. If Diaco has a thing against BC, he should have it against several other schools too that passed on him over the past several years.
4. Diaco has not coached a single game yet as head coach, anywhere. The road is littered with former head coaches that "get" it and "say" the right things. Even from the most tradition laden programs in the country. Results/wins is the only metric that matters.
5. While this recruiting class will be given a pass, the visitor/commit list save the RB who had an offer from Lville, does not scream building a championship contender. Next year, he needs to have Adazzio like success in recruiting. While stars may not mean everything, they are not 100% irrelevant. BC has 3 four and 14 3* recruits this year. That is the type of class Uconn needs to have in place 1 year from today.

I get what your saying but actually interviewing and coming from a bigbrother Catholic school and losing out to Dazzy has to make it a bit "personal" and remember BC had lousy recruiting the last few years under Spaz with all their NE "tradition". If HCBD is known for anything at all its NE recruiting so I would'nt bet against him! I think RU made a mistake keep Kelis Fisher and would have been wise to take a shot with local boy BD. Maybe not getting Narduzzi was a bit of good fortune in the long run?

 

[06029]

I get what your saying but actually interviewing and coming from a bigbrother Catholic school and losing out to Dazzy has to make it a bit "personal" and remember BC had lousy recruiting the last few years under Spaz with all their NE "tradition". If HCBD is known for anything at all its NE recruiting so I would'nt bet against him! I think RU made a mistake keep Kelis Fisher and would have been wise to take a shot with local boy BD. Maybe not getting Narduzzi was a bit of good fortune in the long run?

BD lacked what BC wanted, a guy with HC experience. Their AD said that was key criteria at the time of hiring. BC tried and failed with 2 career coordinators (although Jags did have Wisconsin Whitewater on his resume). I also heard from a very strong CT source that Adazzio came in with a multi hour presentation that outlined his recruiting game plan, his key O and D coordinators, scheme/philosophy, scheduling, practice schedules, academic compliance plan, etc. He blew everyone else out of the water with what he showed and how he communicated. He set the standard that no one else met. I also heard that BD did that with Uconn this year (well prepared, outline of what and who he wanted including salary requirements), so maybe he learned something along the way. Diaco should not need a chip on his shoulder. He should just need to execute his vision as quickly as possible. To me, that means 1 year from today, Uconn should have a top 40 recruiting class and a winning record.

 

[NickyNewark]

BD lacked what BC wanted, a guy with HC experience. Their AD said that was key criteria at the time of hiring. BC tried and failed with 2 career coordinators (although Jags did have Wisconsin Whitewater on his resume). I also heard from a very strong CT source that Adazzio came in with a multi hour presentation that outlined his recruiting game plan, his key O and D coordinators, scheme/philosophy, scheduling, practice schedules, academic compliance plan, etc. He blew everyone else out of the water with what he showed and how he communicated. He set the standard that no one else met. I also heard that BD did that with Uconn this year (well prepared, outline of what and who he wanted including salary requirements), so maybe he learned something along the way. Diaco should not need a chip on his shoulder. He should just need to execute his vision as quickly as possible. To me, that means 1 year from today, Uconn should have a top 40 recruiting class and a winning record.

Good info...I agree and believe HCBD will deliver at minimum a top 40+ class next year and improve gradually with the wins. Before RU hired Kelis Fisher they had Dazzy in for an interview and TP demanded Dazzy keep Kelis Fisher on staff to hold the 1 great(top23?) class they had managed until that point but to Dazzys credit he held firm. Big mistake by TP because they would'nt have lost a beat with him(Dazzy)IMO. Instead one recruiting class may set them back 3 years in progress?

 

[ZooCougar]

I think Top 40 might be unrealistic.

 

[gioff23]

This case will play out somewhere other than a court room. We'll never know all the facts. But since I did not sleep in a Holiday Inn last night, all i can say is that like every other exit from a conference, they will negotiate quietly. Trying to enforce an exit fee that is multiples above that of other conferences would not be where I would want to start negotiating from. You simply can't force a business to remain part of an organization against its will or at an exorbitant penalty.

 

[billybud]

The thing is...that Maryland did not offer to pay the $20 million that was the previous penalty (and, ironically, the one that was formulated by their own Dr. Loh).

Maryland was broke. Maryland wanted to slink out and whisper slyly..."I'd rather owe it to you then beat you out of it".

The ACC started withholding their monies immediately. They knew the score. Maryland immediately started whining. The ACC should have the $20 million by the time that Maryland leaves.

It will eventually be settled, but the example will be that a team won't be sent off with a bouquet and a hearty "Bon Voyage".

 

[SouthronCross]

The thing is...that Maryland did not offer to pay the $20 million that was the previous penalty (and, ironically, the one that was formulated by their own Dr. Loh).

Maryland was broke. Maryland wanted to slink out and whisper slyly..."I'd rather owe it to you then beat you out of it".

The ACC started withholding their monies immediately. They knew the score. Maryland immediately started whining. The ACC should have the $20 million by the time that Maryland leaves.

It will eventually be settled, but the example will be that a team won't be sent off with a bouquet and a hearty "Bon Voyage".

This cannot be stressed enough. If they were expecting a 'lets all be happy' going away party, they totally read Swofford wrong.

Loh was the first to suggest an exit fee. But, when the vote to raise it went against him, he decided that UMD was not going to pay it at all. Swofford was not going to allow the Terps to just walk away from an obligation like that. He has not always made the best moves for the league, but, I agree 100 percent with him here.

 

[bingethinker]

This cannot be stressed enough. If they were expecting a 'lets all be happy' going away party, they totally read Swofford wrong.

Loh was the first to suggest an exit fee. But, when the vote to raise it went against him, he decided that UMD was not going to pay it at all. Swofford was not going to allow the Terps to just walk away from an obligation like that. He has not always made the best moves for the league, but, I agree 100 percent with him here.

Could you please provide a source -- any source -- that indicates President Loh or any Maryland official sought (or planned to seek) a no-cost ACC exit for UMD? I'm really excited to see the links you can provide to support your claim.

Loh is a lawyer. I find it really hard to believe that he or a designee thought for one second that the Terps would be in the Big Ten without having paid some sort of fee to leave the ACC. And he certainly didn't "decide that UMD was not going to pay it at all." That's a preposterous claim -- even by message board standards.

Loh decided to do what EVERY high-major college president has done when its university has switched conferences: He either paid the exit fee or challenged it and let the courts settle the matter. In this instance, the courts will decide the final amount, Maryland will pay (or perhaps be owed money by the ACC), and life will go on for Maryland and the ACC.

I'm really not sure why a small but vocal contingent of ACC fans on this board spend so much of their time dogging Maryland, a school they claim to not care about losing.

 

[SouthronCross]

Could you please provide a source -- any source -- that indicates President Loh or any Maryland official sought (or planned to seek) a no-cost ACC exit for UMD? I'm really excited to see the links you can provide to support your claim.

Loh is a lawyer. I find it really hard to believe that he or a designee thought for one second that the Terps would be in the Big Ten without having paid some sort of fee to leave the ACC. And he certainly didn't "decide that UMD was not going to pay it at all." That's a preposterous claim -- even by message board standards.

There are no links, as my post comes from conversations with UMD alums and fans, who live locally, and, they say that is the university's plan. How plugged in they are, I have no idea. You can take up your issue with them.

I should have made that point clear when I made my post. I didn't. My bad.

Loh decided to do what EVERY high-major college president has done when its university has switched conferences: He either paid the exit fee or challenged it and let the courts settle the matter. In this instance, the courts will decide the final amount, Maryland will pay (or perhaps be owed money by the ACC), and life will go on for Maryland and the ACC.

The final amount will likely be below what the ACC is asking, and, slightly above what UMD wants to pay. Somewhere in the $30M range is my guess.

I'm really not sure why a small but vocal contingent of ACC fans on this board spend so much of their time dogging Maryland, a school they claim to not care about losing.

I do not spend time dogging UMD. I, in fact, think it sucks that UMD will no longer be in the same league as UNC and NCSU. They've been conference mates for 107 years (as of the end of this academic year). Both have played some memorable games against the Terps in my lifetime, and, I will miss that. But, lets face it, UMD fans don't show up for ACC games anymore, and, haven't for awhile. FTR, UNC fans do not travel like FSU, CU, or VPI, either.

What I for sure have said is that if UMD no longer wants to be here, then, they cannot leave soon enough. I wish them good luck in the B1G. Because I believe you are going to need it. Louisville WANTS to be here, and, I believe that they are an upgrade athletically. Especially for football. I actually wanted UConn when UMD chose to leave. I still hope they'll get in.

 

[bingethinker]

Lol...I see. You don't dog Maryland, but in the very next sentence you took a inexplicable dig that had NOTHING to do with ANYTHING. What does attendance have to do with this conversation? Especially when attendance is down across the board in the ACC and has been for the last five years. But I'll leave it alone.

Anyway, you're a good man for admitting to posting unverifiable anecdotes and passing them off as fact. Some folks would've kept it going. None of these "fans" know what the University and Doug Gansler's office plan to do. Donors -- except maybe Plank and Gossett -- are not privy to those details. Business just doesn't work that way.

 

[billybud]

There is no source (if you have one, please link) that says that Maryland has voluntarily paid a dime of their $20 million, nor intended to.

Maryland, and their law suit is the source, objected to the ACC garnishing their payouts. Claimed, even after their "we are leaving the ACC" press conference arm in arm with Delany, that the ACC could not withhold monies because they had not given notice.

To think that Maryland had intent to pay the $20 million is balderdash. They were hoping for a quick settlement.

Maryland was flat broke (plenty of references)...and desperate.

 

[SAMCRO]

Who the hell knows what UMd was or is planning to pay. It seems pretty evident that UMd has not paid a dime to the ACC up to this point, which is why the ACC is witholding money. If you are UMd, why would you pay anything now if youare in the middle of contesting the amount you should actually pay. From what I've read on this insanely well informed and in the know message board (key work, insanely) is people thought UMd would ultimatley end up paying in the mid $20's, but not the full $52 they (and FSU) never signed up for.

I'm no fancy book learning lawyer, I'm just simple caveman, but I would think their first approach would be (and was) we shouldn't have to pay anyhting since there was no financial harm in our leaving, to which the ACC would counter (and did), BS you pay the full $52 per the bylaws, and they dance this dance back and forth - as they've done, and ultimately a compromise happens and they settle an amount somewhere between $20M and $52M (i'm guessing mid-upper $20's).

The ACC has to contest and fight for the full fee otherwise they leave a door open for others to balk at the exit fee. End of the day, all will settle without airing all the dirty laundry that goes on in the Game of Conference Realignment. A certain network with mouse ears will make sure of that.

 

[itgoeslike]

Why would Maryland prepay the exit fee, especially when you consider they were sued first by the ACC? Perhaps, one would if there was a tactical advantage. I can't see any logical reason for Maryland doing so in advance of a settlement. If you combine a prepayment of $20M with the monies being withheld by the ACC you end up being close to $50M, if not slightly more.

The irony is that B12 and ACC officials were at times publicly appalled that the Big East would try to "block" a team's exit. Meanwhile, Swofford and the ACC have built up the biggest walls and taken up the greatest action against a departing school. So, for some UConn fans it rings hollow when we read how Maryland deserves to pay a steep price for exiting. In the end, the ACC's actions could be indicative of who's really desperate. In this case, it doesn't appear to be Maryland.

 

[06029]

Except no one is blocking MD from leaving. The BE tried to stop teams from leaving even if they followed procedures in bylaws. The issue here is the fee associated with leaving not the act of leaving.

 

[Stinger92860]

I want to see Maryland leave for 0 dollars. Why? Because it will create chaos and movement. We need this.

 

[itgoeslike]

Except no one is blocking MD from leaving. The BE tried to stop teams from leaving even if they followed procedures in bylaws. The issue here is the fee associated with leaving not the act of leaving.

I have to disagree. The ACC's $51M exit fee was put in place to impede the departure of an exiting team. That fee is enforced even when a team provides notice and follows the bylaws, which to my knowledge, Maryland has done. GOR aside, many would consider that alone as "blocking". With regard to the Big East, they required 27 months advance notice to depart. WVU wanted to depart an 8-team league in less than 12 months, which resulted in the legal action (WVU filed first). Syracuse and PITT stuck around long enough to incur a modest bump in the exit fee to depart early. Notre Dame left per the advantageous terms of their agreement. Louisville took steps early on to start the clock ticking on their departure so it was relatively amiable. I don't see much difference in both conferences actions, except that the ACC has put in place a much higher hurdle.

 

[billybud]

It is really all relatively unimportant right now..at least to me.

Maryland is going to the B1G...The ACC has refilled with Louisville....the rest is just side bar drama.

It really isn't about the money...it is more likely "let's make this as miserable as we can" for the Terps.

"Are you watching this.. FSU, Virginia, Clemson?"

It is akin to Santa Ana's ordering the bugles to play the DeGuello....the call for no quarter.

 

[SouthronCross]

Lol...I see. You don't dog Maryland, but in the very next sentence you took a inexplicable dig that had NOTHING to do with ANYTHING. What does attendance have to do with this conversation? Especially when attendance is down across the board in the ACC and has been for the last five years. But I'll leave it alone.

LOL...after I said I did not dog Maryland, I believe, that in the very next sentence, I said that it sucks UMD would not be in the same leagues as UNC and NCSU anymore. After 107 years. And, that the Terps had played some memorable games against the Heels and Pack in my own lifetime. You call THAT a dig? Wow, tough room.

Granted the attendance reference was probably not apropos for this discussion.

Now, if you want to take issue with my second paragraph, thats fair enough. I have maintained that POV since UMD made their announcement. Wouldn't you feel that way, if the roles were reversed, and, UNC was the one leaving? I am guessing that you would. But, thats just me.

Anyway, you're a good man for admitting to posting unverifiable anecdotes and passing them off as fact. Some folks would've kept it going. None of these "fans" know what the University and Doug Gansler's office plan to do. Donors -- except maybe Plank and Gossett -- are not privy to those details. Business just doesn't work that way.

Yeah, admittedly not my finest moment as a poster by a longshot. Lesson learned.

 

[billybud]

Well...I won't apologize for my disdain for Maryland's football program.

The Terps have made BC look like world beaters. Maryland's lousy 2-20 record against FSU was indicative of how bad an opponent they have been (along with Duke).

NC State, BC, Wake..now they have at least given some competition to the Noles at times.

The 63-0 goodbye drubbing that the Noles gave the Terps was an embarrassment.

goodbye....I won't miss you...sincerely, an unapologetic Billy

Yeah, admittedly not my finest moment as a poster by a longshot. Lesson learned.

 

[itgoeslike]

Maryland will leave for the Big 10 and the ACC will receive some form of "compensation". The amount of the judgement/settlement will not affect this event from happening. However, if the amount is at either end of the spectrum, it will have implications, at least in my opinion. The amount likely ends up somewhere in the middle.

 

[SouthronCross]

Who the hell knows what UMd was or is planning to pay. It seems pretty evident that UMd has not paid a dime to the ACC up to this point, which is why the ACC is witholding money. If you are UMd, why would you pay anything now if youare in the middle of contesting the amount you should actually pay. From what I've read on this insanely well informed and in the know message board (key work, insanely) is people thought UMd would ultimatley end up paying in the mid $20's, but not the full $52 they (and FSU) never signed up for.

I'm no fancy book learning lawyer, I'm just simple caveman, but I would think their first approach would be (and was) we shouldn't have to pay anyhting since there was no financial harm in our leaving, to which the ACC would counter (and did), BS you pay the full $52 per the bylaws, and they dance this dance back and forth - as they've done, and ultimately a compromise happens and they settle an amount somewhere between $20M and $52M (i'm guessing mid-upper $20's).

I would not say there is no financial harm to UMD leaving. As has been pointed out on this board, by several folks (not just ACCers), the ACC is losing a part of its presence within the DC market, and, is losing the Baltimore market altogether. That is not small potatoes.

What this really comes down to is procedure. Did the ACC follow its own bylaws in implementing the new $52M exit fee, or, not?

The ACC has to contest and fight for the full fee otherwise they leave a door open for others to balk at the exit fee. End of the day, all will settle without airing all the dirty laundry that goes on in the Game of Conference Realignment. A certain network with mouse ears will make sure of that.

Like you, I am no legal eagle, but, IMHO, if the $52M is ruled against, the original $20M fee will still stand. I also believe both parties will settle for an amount closer to about $30M. Probably to include the amount that the ACC has already withheld from UMD. Just one fan's guess. Take it FWIW.

 

[06029]

I have to disagree. The ACC's $51M exit fee was put in place to impede the departure of an exiting team. That fee is enforced even when a team provides notice and follows the bylaws, which to my knowledge, Maryland has done. GOR aside, many would consider that alone as "blocking". With regard to the Big East, they required 27 months advance notice to depart. WVU wanted to depart an 8-team league in less than 12 months, which resulted in the legal action (WVU filed first). Syracuse and PITT stuck around long enough to incur a modest bump in the exit fee to depart early. Notre Dame left per the advantageous terms of their agreement. Louisville took steps early on to start the clock ticking on their departure so it was relatively amiable. I don't see much difference in both conferences actions, except that the ACC has put in place a much higher hurdle.

Bylaws say give notice pay fee leave. it is pretty somple unless you do not want to pay.

 

[SouthronCross]

Why would Maryland prepay the exit fee, especially when you consider they were sued first by the ACC? Perhaps, one would if there was a tactical advantage. I can't see any logical reason for Maryland doing so in advance of a settlement. If you combine a prepayment of $20M with the monies being withheld by the ACC you end up being close to $50M, if not slightly more.

The irony is that B12 and ACC officials were at times publicly appalled that the Big East would try to "block" a team's exit. Meanwhile, Swofford and the ACC have built up the biggest walls and taken up the greatest action against a departing school. So, for some UConn fans it rings hollow when we read how Maryland deserves to pay a steep price for exiting.

Its not about UMD deserving to pay a steep price for leaving. It never has been. It is about the ACC asking UMD to abide by terms of exiting the league, as voted on by the league's membership. Just because you vote against something, regardless of why, does not mean you are not bound by the vote's outcome.

If its shown that the ACC correctly followed its bylaws in implementing the new exit fee, UMD will be on the hook for the full $52M. I actually believe the final amount they pay will be around $30M, plus or minus what the ACC has already withheld.

Just remember, the exit fees, both the original $20M, and, the $52M, were not just foisted upon the league's members by John Swofford. Both of those fees...the original an idea conceived by UMD's own president Loh...were voted on by, and, passed by, the league membership. Its never been about keeping anybody in against their will,for the 10 who voted for the $52M, its been about committing to staying together.

In the end, the ACC's actions could be indicative of who's really desperate. In this case, it doesn't appear to be Maryland.

Oh, really? Maryland WAS desperate. No two ways about it. That is why they moved. According to multiple reports, UMD's athletic department was very much deep in the red when they accepted the B1G's offer, and, they did not think that they could make it off of what the ACC was getting, going forward. Which is somewhat confusing, seeing as how peer institutions such as UNC and UVA were doing ok.