Maryland’s $157 million counterclaim: ACC recruited B1G schools

[UConnJim]

FSU guys aren't envious of Notre Dame...and ND doesn't have that sweet of a deal.

Oh boy...they did get to play in the Pin Stripe Bowl. One step up the frozen tundra ladder from the Bowl in Boise.

And, if they ever are the opponent of an ACC team in the Orange Bowl...they take home half of what an opponent from any conference would get.

FSU guys really look forward to playing Notre Dame again next year.

ND absolutely has a sweetheart deal with the ACC and ACC fans will find out soon enough. They always find the way to get what they want. They will help destabilize the ACC. How? For example, if schools threatened to leave the ACC unless ND became a full member, they wouldn't become a full member as they really don't care if schools defect because they are only looking for a home for their Olympic sports. An ACC that lost UNC, UVA, FSU, and Clemson replaced by UConn, Cincinnati, USF, and UCF is perfectly fine with ND as they don't care about ACC football.

By the way, ND replaced a Big 12 team in the Pinstripe Bowl and did not take a bowl slot from the ACC. The bowl deal with the ACC starts next year. And, ND, almost every time will jump an ACC school for any bowl.

 

[UConn Dan]

By the way, ND replaced a Big 12 team in the Pinstripe Bowl and did not take a bowl slot from the ACC. The bowl deal with the ACC starts next year. And, ND, almost every time will jump an ACC school for any bowl.

This! Just you wait...

 

[NEforceUConn]

FSU is and has been a better FB program compared with ND for at least 20 years. However with the sweatheart deal ND cut with the ACC ND will continue to have basically every fb game it plays on national TV, will get $ from NBC, will get $ from ACC, and has a home for all its sports. I dare say ND will make more $ each year compared with FSU, even though FSU has better fb. This uneven situation will gnaw at FSU supporters until they stand up and demand a larger share of the ACC cut. Why have an equal cut with so many sub par ACC football schools when they are by far the best fb program compared with the others. tick tick tick

 

[bingethinker]

FSU is and has been a better FB program compared with ND for at least 20 years. However with the sweatheart deal ND cut with the ACC ND will continue to have basically every fb game it plays on national TV, will get $ from NBC, will get $ from ACC, and has a home for all its sports. I dare say ND will make more $ each year compared with FSU, even though FSU has better fb. This uneven situation will gnaw at FSU supporters until they stand up and demand a larger share of the ACC cut. Why have an equal cut with so many sub par ACC football schools when they are by far the best fb program compared with the others. tick tick tick

But let some ACC fans tell it, Swafford cuts good deals. Lol

 

[bingethinker]

It really isn't about the money...it is more likely "let's make this as miserable as we can" for the Terps.

"Are you watching this.. FSU, Virginia, Clemson?"

Pretty much. But I think this is fine and is to be expected! Swafford has a league to protect. I wouldn't make it easy on MD either if i were in his position.

 

[bingethinker]

There is no source (if you have one, please link) that says that Maryland has voluntarily paid a dime of their $20 million, nor intended to.

Maryland, and their law suit is the source, objected to the ACC garnishing their payouts. Claimed, even after their "we are leaving the ACC" press conference arm in arm with Delany, that the ACC could not withhold monies because they had not given notice.

To think that Maryland had intent to pay the $20 million is balderdash. They were hoping for a quick settlement.

Maryland was flat broke (plenty of references)...and desperate.

By your logic, I'm a terrorist who should be monitored by the CIA. Why? Because you can't find a link to the contrary on the internet.

I get that this is a message board that solely exists for the purpose of inference and conjecture. The reality -- and the point I was making to SouthernCross -- is that not having facts to back something up doesn't mean the inverse is true. It means the original assertion (or anecdote) is merely opinion and shouldn't be passed off as fact.

Others have already responded explaining how stupid it would've been for Loh to offer to pay without an arbitrator or judge making a final ruling, so I won't even get into the rest of your post.

As for your constant pushing of this "desperate" adjective, I can only hope one day to be as "desperate" as you claim Maryland was only to find myself in a significantly better position that I was before like Maryland did. ACC fans won't admit it, but the Big Ten at best is a better, richer, and more prestigious league than the ACC. On its absolute worst day, it's a lateral move.

Again, if a push or a better situation is the result of being desperate, then I hope to be desperate every single day of my life.

 

[bingethinker]

Oh, really? Maryland WAS desperate. No two ways about it. That is why they moved. According to multiple reports, UMD's athletic department was very much deep in the red when they accepted the B1G's offer, and, they did not think that they could make it off of what the ACC was getting, going forward. Which is somewhat confusing, seeing as how peer institutions such as UNC and UVA were doing ok.

The ACC's tv money was (is) certainly a problem for UMD, but private fundraising is a big, big problem, too. Maryland is the richest state in America, but its University's alumni just don't give. Part of that has to do with Maryland being an incredibly transient state. Part of it has to do with a very poorly run Terrapin Club. The TC has a new ED and has been re-integrated back into ICA i.e. the TC ED reports to the AD again instead of some random academic like it was under Yow. Maryland may see fruit from those changes, maybe not. But what they will see is more money from the Big Ten than they would've from the ACC. That should help. It also helps that they no longer have a AD that will fund projects that don't have sustainable funding sources or grossly over pay women's basketball and competitive cheerleading coaches. People really don't understand how Yow ran that athletic department into the ground. NC State fans are now seeing it though.

 

[upstater]

You find much of that Notre Dame angst on UConn and WVU boards....but not on ACC boards.

We ACC fans seem to be very contented with the arrangement of having Notre Dame play five football games a year as an OOC team and play the other sports as conference.

Admittedly...The Big East did not have this same arrangement...did not get five games a year, did have Notre Dame poaching good bowls, etc.

Quite frankly, you sound like us at the beginning. Just wait until they make alliances against your best interests, and destroy you from within. That's how they operate. Were it not for Notre Dame, the Big East might still be together.

You simply haven't considered the ramifications of giving them a full vote.

 

[NickyNewark]

Quite frankly, you sound like us at the beginning. Just wait until they make alliances against your best interests, and destroy you from within. That's how they operate. Were it not for Notre Dame, the Big East might still be together.

You simply haven't considered the ramifications of giving them a full vote.

I agree I believe like the old BE the ACC is pacified....they'll learn like we did...the hard way! Already their trying to waggle out of playing at the Dome for SU and little by little will finagle others with what Irish boosters consider lesser advantageous venues.

 

[06029]

Quite frankly, you sound like us at the beginning. Just wait until they make alliances against your best interests, and destroy you from within. That's how they operate. Were it not for Notre Dame, the Big East might still be together.

And if it weren't for my genes, I would have hair.

The BE was doomed from day 1 as a FB conference because it was in reality a BB conference. FB was an afterthought when it started and then became more important as the revenue stream grew. The addition of FB only schools at the start of the FB side of the conference was ridiculous but nobody wanted more than 10 teams in the BB league at that time. Add in the BE cutitng a sweetheart deal for Miami FB (Miami was relevant then; a couple of national championships, Jimmy Johnson, etc) to receive a larger part of the conference revenue, making a deal for ND for everything but FB was an easy call for the BB onlies. BE leadership never understood the FB side of the business. They were a bunch of Friar lackeys that sought to protect BB over everything else. If that meant making deals that enhanced the power of the BB only schools, that was an easy sell. Why else would have Tranghese shopped FB to the ACC in the 1990's?

While I think any deal with ND is bad, the ACC did get a better deal than the BE with the 5 guaranteed games per year and shutting ND out of the Orange Bowl as the ACC rep. When ND has two losses and sees a conference champion with 2 losses included in the FB playoff while they are shut out, they may rethink their 100% FB Independence stance. And after a few years and 15 or 20 games versus the ACC, their alums might actually look at the ACC as a viable alternative. I still think they go B1G over the ACC if that time ever comes. The B1G will always have a revenue advantage over the ACC.

 

[06029]

I agree I believe like the old BE the ACC is pacified....they'll learn like we did...the hard way! Already their trying to waggle out of playing at the Dome for SU and little by little will finagle others with what Irish boosters consider lesser advantageous venues.

Just remember that the Scarlet Blight started out as FB only school in the BE. They declined the invitation to join the BB league when it started in the early 1980's. The Blight and the Hillbillies were added to conference in 1995 as full members. One could argue, that helped lead to teh destruction of the conference as they were perennial bottom feeders in BB (and RU was that in FB for much of its time in the BE). So you can pack in that "We" crap.

 

[Point6]

Speaking of stupid deals, should the AAC offer BYU the ND-ACC deal? BYU may want the bowl tie-ins and scheduling assist. Would it be a good move for AAC hoops? Help a brother out, people - maybe we get up to a $3M per school deal.

 

[NickyNewark]

The vast majority of ACC schools planned to stick together all along. That is what gets lost in all of the CR talk.

JMHO, but, I honestly think FSU had some backchannel talks with the Big 12. Clemson may have as well, but, their intentions were made known the minute Dabo Swinney came out and said it would be a mistake for CU to leave their historic rivals, and, primary recruiting grounds (SC-NC-GA-FL). And, that they could accomplish everything that they wanted from the ACC. When they decided to stay, FSU did, too. Because they were not going to the Big 12 alone.

I don't think on there own Clemson is that attractive w/o FSU. FSU listening to Clemson sounds like wagging the dog? I know the B1G has little thirst for any but the best combination of athletics/academics/markets out there and honestly Clemson would have problems finding a fit outside the ACC alone w/o an attractive partner IMO. I hope the university administration don't take all their advice from Dabo S?

 

[upstater]

And if it weren't for my genes, I would have hair.

The BE was doomed from day 1 as a FB conference because it was in reality a BB conference. FB was an afterthought when it started and then became more important as the revenue stream grew. The addition of FB only schools at the start of the FB side of the conference was ridiculous but nobody wanted more than 10 teams in the BB league at that time. Add in the BE cutitng a sweetheart deal for Miami FB (Miami was relevant then; a couple of national championships, Jimmy Johnson, etc) to receive a larger part of the conference revenue, making a deal for ND for everything but FB was an easy call for the BB onlies. BE leadership never understood the FB side of the business. They were a bunch of Friar lackeys that sought to protect BB over everything else. If that meant making deals that enhanced the power of the BB only schools, that was an easy sell. Why else would have Tranghese shopped FB to the ACC in the 1990's?

While I think any deal with ND is bad, the ACC did get a better deal than the BE with the 5 guaranteed games per year and shutting ND out of the Orange Bowl as the ACC rep. When ND has two losses and sees a conference champion with 2 losses included in the FB playoff while they are shut out, they may rethink their 100% FB Independence stance. And after a few years and 15 or 20 games versus the ACC, their alums might actually look at the ACC as a viable alternative. I still think they go B1G over the ACC if that time ever comes. The B1G will always have a revenue advantage over the ACC.

This is revisionist history though. The BB onlies had no power without that ND vote. They couldn't protect the Catholics if they tried, were it not for ND.

 

[NickyNewark]

Just remember that the Scarlet Blight started out as FB only school in the BE. They declined the invitation to join the BB league when it started in the early 1980's. The Blight and the Hillbillies were added to conference in 1995 as full members. One could argue, that helped lead to teh destruction of the conference as they were perennial bottom feeders in BB (and RU was that in FB for much of its time in the BE). So you can pack in that "We" crap.

No WE as in old BE? Stay OT or ignore.Who was talking RU? If you can't get along...get along !Even better...start you're own thread beefing about RU and enjoy.

 

[06029]

This is revisionist history though. The BB onlies had no power without that ND vote. They couldn't protect the Catholics if they tried, were it not for ND.

Revisionist? The BE started out as a BB conference. The first expansion with Pitt and Nova added a FB and a BB only school. To become a FB conference, the BE added FB only schools creating a weird confederation set up. The BB only schools (including Uconn at the time) did not want a conference larger than 10 teams. No one wanted to do away with the home and home schedule where you played 100% of the teams twice a year. The next expansion added the FB schools (Rutgers an UWV) followed by a final FB school (VT) that created the 50/50 FB/BB only balance. Adding in ND for everything but FB put the balance back into the BB side of the equation which is what the leadership of the conference wanted. Tranghese shopped FB to the ACC in the 1990's. Miami created the sweetheart revenue deal on the FB side of the conference that was also enjoyed by UWV and VT. Those seem to be facts. The conference leadership of the BE was comprised solely of hand picked Providence College related people. The conferences soul was BB. They did what they needed to do to protect BB. Not revisionist history.

The ACC/ND deal is substantially different than the BE/ND deal. It still benefits ND more than the ACC but the framework of the deal is light years ahead of the what the BE ever received from ND.

 

[NickyNewark]

No one but possibly the Big12 would have been NDs option......not the best alternative for a catholic school in Baptist country. I doubt Texahoma would concede much either.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

I think the ACC has departed completely from Academics as a major factor. But we still are a better candidate than UCF and Cincy. Football is going to surge back. Basketball will stay strong.

I actually have some confidence that Warde will be able to maintain the revenue gap over UCF and Cincy. Just look at where Bob Diaco is putting the emphasis. Ticket Sales. Ticket Sales. Ticket Sales.

That tells me that Warde has given Bob guidance. "Get the program s e xy again so that we can fill the Rent and make more money". All the other goodness will follow.

With the ACC more stable now they will be more selective with academics being one of many factors if they do expand. Football programs are hard to come by.
They needed the best football available and Louisville was the flavor de jur.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

I don't think on there own Clemson is that attractive w/o FSU. FSU listening to Clemson sounds like wagging the dog? I know the B1G has little thirst for any but the best combination of athletics/academics/markets out there and honestly Clemson would have problems finding a fit outside the ACC alone w/o an attractive partner IMO. I hope the university administration don't take all their advice from Dabo S?

The B12 would take Clemson in a heartbeat.

 

[upstater]

Revisionist? The BE started out as a BB conference. The first expansion with Pitt and Nova added a FB and a BB only school. To become a FB conference, the BE added FB only schools creating a weird confederation set up. The BB only schools (including Uconn at the time) did not want a conference larger than 10 teams. No one wanted to do away with the home and home schedule where you played 100% of the teams twice a year. The next expansion added the FB schools (Rutgers an UWV) followed by a final FB school (VT) that created the 50/50 FB/BB only balance. Adding in ND for everything but FB put the balance back into the BB side of the equation which is what the leadership of the conference wanted. Tranghese shopped FB to the ACC in the 1990's. Miami created the sweetheart revenue deal on the FB side of the conference that was also enjoyed by UWV and VT. Those seem to be facts. The conference leadership of the BE was comprised solely of hand picked Providence College related people. The conferences soul was BB. They did what they needed to do to protect BB. Not revisionist history.

The ACC/ND deal is substantially different than the BE/ND deal. It still benefits ND more than the ACC but the framework of the deal is light years ahead of the what the BE ever received from ND.

ND's interest was in playing bball at a much higher level than the current BE. By voting the way it did, it prevented these schools from doing what was in their best interest, and it could have cut the same deal with the ACC long ago. Instead, by voting with the Catholics in a quid pro quo, they received an easy out (made themselves a third league entity [football schools, basketball schools, Notre Dame]) which allowed them to double deal even when they headed the conference.

Were it not for ND's vote, there's a chance the BE football schools would be together today.

 

[06029]

Were it not for ND's vote, there's a chance the BE football schools would be together today.

This is where we have vastly different opinions. The split was going to happen no matter how ND voted.

The handwriting was on the wall when BC, VT and Miami left. The split should have happened then (or maybe before that). This is where you will go on about BB credits, and owed money, etc., but that was short term blindness that could have been resolved thru negotiation. Uconn was blinded by BB as was Cuse and Pitt. If the FB's split then, they would have had a dominant FB and BB conference and the talk would not be of the P5 but of the P6 with 6, 12 team conferences. When they decided to try and save the past, the demise of the BE was sealed. In my opinion.

ND is ruthless and self serving in every decision as it relates to athletics. I don't think we disagree about that. But the BE as a FB/BB confederation was doomed to failure based on ts origins, leadership and its self-identification as a BB conference that has some FB teams. ND had no role in that.

 

[upstater]

This is where we have vastly different opinions. The split was going to happen no matter how ND voted.

The handwriting was on the wall when BC, VT and Miami left. The split should have happened then (or maybe before that). This is where you will go on about BB credits, and owed money, etc., but that was short term blindness that could have been resolved thru negotiation. Uconn was blinded by BB as was Cuse and Pitt. If the FB's split then, they would have had a dominant FB and BB conference and the talk would not be of the P5 but of the P6 with 6, 12 team conferences. When they decided to try and save the past, the demise of the BE was sealed. In my opinion.

ND is ruthless and self serving in every decision as it relates to athletics. I don't think we disagree about that. But the BE as a FB/BB confederation was doomed to failure based on ts origins, leadership and its self-identification as a BB conference that has some FB teams. ND had no role in that.

UConn, Cuse and Pitt all wanted to split, but ND's vote blocked them. I'm not going on about bball credits or money or anything. I'm talking about the BCS bid that just ended this year. That's 10 years of BCS bids. Without it, you're the Mountain West.

 

[SubbaBub]

W/o ND the BE doesn't invite Butler and Marquette and either invites two other FB schools or breaks away from the BB schools.

It was ND voting with the C7 that prevented more of a focus on FB, which would've been the right move.

Also likely accepts ESPN's initial offer (or the 10 team equivalent) keeps WVU, Pitt, Cuse, UL and RU along with its BCS bid (though I am assuming a FB league starting in 2005 builds enough momentum with that last one)

Don't underestimate the role the FB/BBonly dynamic played in the departures. ND being the 8th BB vote allowed that to happen.

 

[bobbyinaz]

W/o ND the BE doesn't invite Butler and Marquette and either invites two other FB schools or breaks away from the BB schools.

It was ND voting with the C7 that prevented more of a focus on FB, which would've been the right move.

Also likely accepts ESPN's initial offer (or the 10 team equivalent) keeps WVU, Pitt, Cuse, UL and RU along with its BCS bid (though I am assuming a FB league starting in 2005 builds enough momentum with that last one)

Don't underestimate the role the FB/BBonly dynamic played in the departures. ND being the 8th BB vote allowed that to happen.

A perfect example of the power the BBonlys had was the fact that head of the Big East Expansion committee was none other than the ND AD. The fact that this ever was allowed to happen shows there was NEVER any interest from BE leadership in supporting the FB schools

 

[upstater]

By the same reasoning that holds that the New Big East gets $4m a year for bball only while the AAC gets $2m for football and basketball (which is, few crud games, lots of teams drawing interest--apparently), a Big East that consisted solely of Syracuse, UConn, Pitt, Louisville, West Virginia, Cincinnati, Rutgers, USF & maybe a school like Memphis, would have jacked up the basketball side of the ledger considerably and increased that $13 million a year ESPN offer to $16 or $17m (and that's being conservative when you realize that the Catholics got a 100% increase when they left the BE for a new bball contract).

Is $17m a year enough?