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LOL Pats Fans - it never ends

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zyron said:
I love that Pats fans think the report exonerates them, when it doesn't at all.
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Stop making strawman arguments - it says neither they nor Belichick had knowledge of the offense.

Some of you Pats-hating clowns are just as insufferable in this thread as the fanboys. My god.
 
zyron said:
I love that Pats fans think the report exonerates them, when it doesn't at all.
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He's referring to the part that says Belichick and Kraft had nothing to do with it.

That being said, the Patriots penalty doesn't surprise me at all. I was expecting it.

The only thing to be done now is Brady's appeal.

While I was expecting the Brady suspension (Vegas had it at 3.5 over/under) I think he is going to win the appeal easily if they go to a neutral arbitrator, which they don't have to do.

Kraft gets egg in his face after taking Goodell at his word that no one in the NFL offices saw the Ray Rice tape. Probable? ROFL!
 
upstater said:
so you're saying the Wells report is devoid of facts? I'm citing the Wells Report.

By all means, continue to vouch for Roger Vince McMahon Goodell.
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What??? You're not acting rational. Your hero is a liar, I get that it's a tough day for you.
 
UConn990411 said:
Stop making strawman arguments - it says neither they nor Belichick had knowledge of the offense.

Some of you Pats-hating clowns are just as insufferable in this thread as the fanboys. My god.
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So the team shouldn't be punished for it's players and employees cheating? Okay.
 
tzznandrew said:
Wow. I don't even like the Pats and I think this is stupid. The NFL has lost its mind here: you can't suspend a domestic abuser 1/2 has long as a player who "more likely than not" had "general knowledge" that balls were slightly below the PSI. It's ridiculous beyond words.
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I'm guessing that phrasing had more to do with legalese than anything else. I don't know why people are getting hung up on that.
 
News is reporting Patriots indefinitely suspended the two employees named in report. Why would they suspend these two guys if they did nothing wrong?
 
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What I find most ironic in all of this as a LIFELONG Pats (yes, I watched every game from 1988-1990 when the Pats won a total of about 6 games) and UConn fan, is that the non-Pat UConn fans have no problem calling the Pats cheaters, and yet would defend Jim Calhoun to all ends of the earth as a non-cheater. What supposedly happened or didn't happen with footballs had as much to with the outcome of that game as me wearing my lucky Pats jersey. And the "crime" was just as innocent as a few extra text messages and a woeful retroactively applied APR record that has "tainted" JC's legacy just like Belichick's and Brady's will be "tainted". This is such a non-story that has been over-embellished by the media, it's sickening. I'm now beginning to think that Goodell has a simple method for handing out punishment after he was so publicly bitch-slapped for fukking up the Ray Rice suspension: the penalty is now directly proportionate to the amount of time a story gets in the media. The whole thing is a farce and I actually find great comedy in it other than all the Pat-haters coming out of the woodwork that this somehow taints their legacy....oh wait, that is in fact the funniest part of this whole drama! So have your fun non-Pat fans, but just remember that in your eyes, if you believe that the Pats really cheated and their legacy is tainted, be prepared to apply the same "logic" to the 4 time NC Huskies that everyone on this board so loves.
 
I do not like the Patriots at all but am shocked at the severity of the penalty. I thought maybe Brady gets a game or 2 and that was it. But they hammered them

I have to believe spygate on the resume hurt the Pats here....coupled with Brady not coming clean etc.
 
uconngb said:
What I find most ironic in all of this as a LIFELONG Pats (yes, I watched every game from 1988-1990 when the Pats won a total of about 6 games) and UConn fan, is that the non-Pat UConn fans have no problem calling the Pats cheaters, and yet would defend Jim Calhoun to all ends of the earth as a non-cheater. What supposedly happened or didn't happen with footballs had as much to with the outcome of that game as me wearing my lucky Pats jersey. And the "crime" was just as innocent as a few extra text messages and a woeful retroactively applied APR record that has "tainted" JC's legacy just like Belichick's and Brady's will be "tainted". This is such a non-story that has been over-embellished by the media, it's sickening. I'm now beginning to think that Goodell has a simple method for handing out punishment after he was so publicly bitch-slapped for fukking up the Ray Rice suspension: the penalty is now directly proportionate to the amount of time a story gets in the media. The whole thing is a farce and I actually find great comedy in it other than all the Pat-haters coming out of the woodwork that this somehow taints their legacy....oh wait, that is in fact the funniest part of this whole drama! So have your fun non-Pat fans, but just remember that in your eyes, if you believe that the Pats really cheated and their legacy is tainted, be prepared to apply the same "logic" to the 4 time NC Huskies that everyone on this board so loves.
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Sorry but it's nothing like the retroactive APR suspension. There were violations made with Nate Miles recruitment and we suffered the penalties for it. The retroactive APR is absolutely nothing like the Patriots situation and as a UConn fan you should know that. Glad you are having fun with the Patriots cheating, that's a good way to look at things.
 
superjohn said:
Sorry but it's nothing like the retroactive APR suspension. There were violations made with Nate Miles recruitment and we suffered the penalties for it. The retroactive APR is absolutely nothing like the Patriots situation and as a UConn fan you should know that. Glad you are having fun with the Patriots cheating, that's a good way to look at things.
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somehow you managed to mess the entire message of my post. if you think the Pats should be tainted, then UConn should be tainted. the "crimes" that both committed both had absolutely nothing to do with any actual game results. you, i think, are the one in denial here
 
Newton move over. The NFL just killed the ideal gas law: PV/T = const. Is Einstein next??

Lot of punishment for a report that was structured in'probabilities'.













is
 
uconngb said:
somehow you managed to mess the entire message of my post. if you think the Pats should be tainted, then UConn should be tainted. the "crimes" that both committed both had absolutely nothing to do with any actual game results. you, i think, are the one in denial here
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How am I in denial? All I did was point out that the retroactive APR is nothing like the Patriots situation. If people want to say Calhoun's legacy is tainted for those extra text messages that's fine, rules were broken and we were penalized for it. You can claim the Patriots have never cheated and nothing on the field was ever compromised, I disagree with you and so does the NFL.
 
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Avid Giants fan here. Hence no need to gloat. Can we get back to pizza, golf, car washes and vending machines? Even I have to admit the loss of 2 draft picks; one of which was a first is nuts. I guess it keeps The League in the news. Now discuss more positive attributes of MA........say one PG named Jalen. Yet I read......
 
superjohn said:
What??? You're not acting rational. Your hero is a liar, I get that it's a tough day for you.
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Facts: Walt Anderson told the Wells people he used the logoed gauge at the start of the game, the same needle that gave the lower readings later.

The Wells people doubted him and wrote that instead, he used the higher gauge needle, which took the Patriots balls slightly out of range.

These are absolute facts. And the fact that you haven't even addressed this shows you know I'm right.
 
uconngb said:
What I find most ironic in all of this as a LIFELONG Pats (yes, I watched every game from 1988-1990 when the Pats won a total of about 6 games) and UConn fan, is that the non-Pat UConn fans have no problem calling the Pats cheaters, and yet would defend Jim Calhoun to all ends of the earth as a non-cheater. What supposedly happened or didn't happen with footballs had as much to with the outcome of that game as me wearing my lucky Pats jersey. And the "crime" was just as innocent as a few extra text messages and a woeful retroactively applied APR record that has "tainted" JC's legacy just like Belichick's and Brady's will be "tainted". This is such a non-story that has been over-embellished by the media, it's sickening. I'm now beginning to think that Goodell has a simple method for handing out punishment after he was so publicly bitch-slapped for fukking up the Ray Rice suspension: the penalty is now directly proportionate to the amount of time a story gets in the media. The whole thing is a farce and I actually find great comedy in it other than all the Pat-haters coming out of the woodwork that this somehow taints their legacy....oh wait, that is in fact the funniest part of this whole drama! So have your fun non-Pat fans, but just remember that in your eyes, if you believe that the Pats really cheated and their legacy is tainted, be prepared to apply the same "logic" to the 4 time NC Huskies that everyone on this board so loves.
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You completely ignore the fact that Brady cheated intentionally and most likely for a long period of time, then would not cooperate with the league's investigation. How (or why) you would lump the NCAA 's retroactive enforcement of the APR rule against Uconn into that is very strange.
 
upstater said:
The NFL is counting on people like you not reading the report. Which allows you to say stuff like this.



Read the report? The report says the balls were deflated and Brady likely did it. Brady said he didn't know the guy and he was texting him.

You mean read the report and conclude what Upstater concluded or I'll shout over you. I'm beginning to hope for capital punishment and I started out thinking this was a small deal.
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sledog said:
Newton move over. The NFL just killed the ideal gas law: PV/T = const. Is Einstein next?? Lot of punishment for a report that was structured in'probabilities'. is
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No they didn't. It's called the ideal gas law for a reason. It's true under "ideal" conditions. You can only substitute the T with another temperature if ALL the other conditions are constant. Specifically here, the size of the container isn't fixed. It expands and contracts with all the other factors, giving you calculation error. Bottom line is you're not all wrong, but certainly your assertion that they are somehow breaking the laws of physics is absurd. There's plenty of wiggle room. By the way, it PV=nRT
pressure, Volume, number of moles, gas constant, and Temperature. Make sure you always use your labels. My chem prof would be pleased!
 
Steep penalty. Probably because of the reaction of their obnoxious fans. Keep it honest Pats or don't complain next time you're caught.
 
superjohn said:
How am I in denial? All I did was point out that the retroactive APR is nothing like the Patriots situation. If people want to say Calhoun's legacy is tainted for those extra text messages that's fine, rules were broken and we were penalized for it. You can claim the Patriots have never cheated and nothing on the field was ever compromised, I disagree with you and so does the NFL.
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There is a small penalty for what the pats may have done. The NFL took the liberyt to penalize them way beyond what the rules dictated at the time of the potential transgression. This also happened to UConn. There is a similarity between Goodell and Emmert. In both cases UConn and the patriots were used as an example to overcompensate for their damaged reputation. The NCAA has a rep for not caring about academics and the NFL duck*ed up the ray rice thing and completely overcompensated for it with this punishment. In addition, emmert had an axe to grind with UConn, and Goodell wanted to crush the pats because Kraft said that if the NFL doesn't find definitive evidence against the pats, then he wants an apology from the NFL and Goodell. There wasn't any sort of conclusive evidence, but some how the NFL comes to a conclusion that allows them and Goodell to accomplish their goals. All of these things are true. Whether you believe brady ordered the balls to be deflated or not is up to you. No one knows the truth. However, there's no question that there wasn't conclusive evidence. And there's no question that the pats and Uconn situation mirror each other in many ways.
 
Guilty as long as your guilt can be presumed. Presumed? In what U.S. court does presumed guilty hold up? It's anti-American!
 
upstater said:
Cuts both ways doesn't it?
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If I was a Giants, or even a Jets fan, that might cut. But I'm not. You're the one calling your future coaches cheaters. I'm untouched.
 
Sportsman5 said:
There is a small penalty for what the pats may have done. The NFL took the liberyt to penalize them way beyond what the rules dictated at the time of the potential transgression. This also happened to UConn. There is a similarity between Goodell and Emmert. In both cases UConn and the patriots were used as an example to overcompensate for their damaged reputation. The NCAA has a rep for not caring about academics and the NFL duck*ed up the ray rice thing and completely overcompensated for it with this punishment. In addition, emmert had an axe to grind with UConn, and Goodell wanted to crush the pats because Kraft said that if the NFL doesn't find definitive evidence against the pats, then he wants an apology from the NFL and Goodell. There wasn't any sort of conclusive evidence, but some how the NFL comes to a conclusion that allows them and Goodell to accomplish their goals. All of these things are true. Whether you believe brady ordered the balls to be deflated or not is up to you. No one knows the truth. However, there's no question that there wasn't conclusive evidence. And there's no question that the pats and Uconn situation mirror each other in many ways.
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Sounds like a bunch of your opinions, not truths.
 
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upstater said:
I think he is going to win the appeal easily if they go to a neutral arbitrator, which they don't have to do.
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The NFL should use another lawyer from the Paul Weiss law firm as the "neutral" arbitrator with "impeccable" credentials that are "beyond question." Why limit the farce to what we've seen so far?
 
Not sure why I'm dipping a toe in water here, but I've been following the thread for days and now finally the penalty has been dished.

First, I am anything but a Patriot hater. They are my favorite AFC team and 2nd favorite team (but a long way back from my beloved Cardinals) and if my team can't win the Super Bowl (and they can't) then my next choice is always the Pats.

Anyone who thinks that Brady did not actively try to have the balls manipulated outside the rules is simply not being open minded. It's quite obvious. When you have an equipment manager nicknamed the Deflater, you are obviously manipulating balls and over a long period of time. The arguments against this being wrong are as ridiculous as well.

1) Just because everyone else does it doesn't mean you don't get punished when you get caught. If you don't think so, go faster than the speed limit and then tell the judge you shouldn't have to pay for the ticket because many other drivers go over the speed limit.

1a) The Patriots got caught because they are under the microscope and it's not fair. Well, perhaps you should realize you've been caught before so people are going to have a closer eye on you and you win a lot so people are going to be watching even more so make sure you keep things squeaky clean. How many of you here want no reaches on recruiting for possible problem kids just to make sure we don't get caught again. It's the same thing for the Patriots. Of course you're being watched - you're winning.

2) The gas law numbers don't show conclusive proof that they did anything. WTF cares about that. If you are right and they were within tolerance that only means they failed at cheating well. They intended to manipulate the balls and didn't do it well enough to have conclusive evidence but they obviously tried. Not much more stupid than failing at cheating. If you looked at another persons paper during a test and read the answer for a different question and therefore got your question wrong, it doesn't mean you didn't cheat. It just means you're stupid.

That being said, I definitely expected a 4 game suspension and I think on appeal it will be reduced to 2. I was shocked at the draft picks being taken away particularly the 1st rounder. The money doesn't matter one way or another. The two picks are pretty big. They may take back the 4th round pick removal on appeal, but I bet the 1st round take away will stand. They are sending a message.

The flat out denial and subsequent failure to cooperate and sudden phone calls and texts are the reason it's so harsh.

I have no problem with it.
 
David 76 said:
If I was a Giants, or even a Jets fan, that might cut. But I'm not. You're the one calling your future coaches cheaters. I'm untouched.
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I'll say it again. My concern is Brady playing, and now loss of draft picks. The sissy stuff about cheating, I am less concerned about.

I was right when it was shown in the report that the balls were not deflated below what you'd expect.

The only way that wells came to another conclusion was by lying. That much has been proven by even Mike Florio at NBC and Peter King.
 
jleves said:
Not sure why I'm dipping a toe in water here, but I've been following the thread for days and now finally the penalty has been dished.

First, I am anything but a Patriot hater. They are my favorite AFC team and 2nd favorite team (but a long way back from my beloved Cardinals) and if my team can't win the Super Bowl (and they can't) then my next choice is always the Pats.

Anyone who thinks that Brady did not actively try to have the balls manipulated outside the rules is simply not being open minded. It's quite obvious. When you have an equipment manager nicknamed the Deflater, you are obviously manipulating balls and over a long period of time. The arguments against this being wrong are as ridiculous as well.

1) Just because everyone else does it doesn't mean you don't get punished when you get caught. If you don't think so, go faster than the speed limit and then tell the judge you shouldn't have to pay for the ticket because many other drivers go over the speed limit.

1a) The Patriots got caught because they are under the microscope and it's not fair. Well, perhaps you should realize you've been caught before so people are going to have a closer eye on you and you win a lot so people are going to be watching even more so make sure you keep things squeaky clean. How many of you here want no reaches on recruiting for possible problem kids just to make sure we don't get caught again. It's the same thing for the Patriots. Of course you're being watched - you're winning.

2) The gas law numbers don't show conclusive proof that they did anything. WTF cares about that. If you are right and they were within tolerance that only means they failed at cheating well. They intended to manipulate the balls and didn't do it well enough to have conclusive evidence but they obviously tried. Not much more stupid than failing at cheating. If you looked at another persons paper during a test and read the answer for a different question and therefore got your question wrong, it doesn't mean you didn't cheat. It just means you're stupid.

That being said, I definitely expected a 4 game suspension and I think on appeal it will be reduced to 2. I was shocked at the draft picks being taken away particularly the 1st rounder. The money doesn't matter one way or another. The two picks are pretty big. They may take back the 4th round pick removal on appeal, but I bet the 1st round take away will stand. They are sending a message.

The flat out denial and subsequent failure to cooperate and sudden phone calls and texts are the reason it's so harsh.

I have no problem with it.
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This is about the AFCCG. That's what triggered this.

And, you claim they deflated the balls each game? then how did they get balls that were well overinflated after games? Why would Brady tell them to bring the rule book to the refs to make sure the balls were down to 13?

The funniest thing about these claims is that the report says the whole event was kicked off because the Colts discovered the Patriots had been using deflated balls in their previous game. Uh, the previous game was in Indy! Then we heard the kicking balls in the Ravens game were exalted. Until the Ravens found out the refs control those balls the whole game and they use the same balls for both teams.Then the Colts gave the intercepted ball to the NFL and it was measured at... 11.75 PSI. what a joke
 
upstater said:
This is about the AFCCG. That's what triggered this.

And, you claim they deflated the balls each game? then how did they get balls that were well overinflated after games? Why would Brady tell them to bring the rule book to the refs to make sure the balls were down to 13?

The funniest thing about these claims is that the report says the whole event was kicked off because the Colts discovered the Patriots had been using deflated balls in their previous game. Uh, the previous game was in Indy! Then we heard the kicking balls in the Ravens game were exalted. Until the Ravens found out the refs control those balls the whole game and they use the same balls for both teams.Then the Colts gave the intercepted ball to the NFL and it was measured at... 11.75 PSI. what a joke
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Trust me - when I was making the post, I knew you would be first up to tell me I was wrong. Bottom line - they have an equipment manager nicknamed the Deflater. There's nothing more a reasonable person needs to know.
 
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