Lebron James

[TasteofUConn]

I can't read threads like this. Jordan was . . . a world reknowned and womanizer but because the only media back then was TV, his image was easily molded by the league and Nike.

Great post.

 

[Scoe]

The best player ever is clearly Brett Szabo, anyone remember him btw.

 

[EBonz30]

Sorry, LeBron is not a better overall player than Jordan.

And the suggestion than somehow LeBron's defense--which, to be clear, was fantastic in these NBA Finals--was better than Jordan's is crazy. He was a lock down defender and won MVP and DPOY in the same year. It wasn't "as good as most," it was Leonard or Draymond good on the perimeter.

Obviously your point that it is hard to compare eras is fair, but Jordan combined offense and defense and winning in a way no other player ever has.

So we are now comparing Jordan and LeBron....

I don't really want to get into silly conversation, I am just going to give you one difference and the biggest and most important difference.....

In Jordan's prime, Jordan never ever let you, never ever ever, never!! Always hit the shot, always made the play, always won the game, always won the championship, ALWAYS!! When you put on a important Jordan game in his prime you knew someway Jordan was going to pull out a W!

I can't not state the same for LeBron, I can name a number of times he let us down and came up small in big spots...

Jordan ALWAYS came through, ALWAYS!!

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Lebron had a bottle of Champagne and a Cigar, around his kids what kind of example is he setting. How selfish he takes that whole bottle of champagne for himself.

Hey, only one bottle.

 

[jayteeman]

Haters are haters, no matter what the topic. Exhibit A:

Enough said.....they should ban Calhoun haters on this site.

Stairmaster said: ↑
(Calhoun)he was simply not a nice man.

 

[kyleslamb]

Okay, stats are good, but eye test is better as well as results..

I watched both players almost every single game they've played in the playoffs....Jordan is better sorry...it's a non conversation at this point, I don't want to get into why and this or that, because it's just a silly conversation, ignorant to even argue or conversate about it, so I will stop now...

There's no scientist ever that studies things for a living that would quantify something and do so by saying the eye test is better than actual statistical analysis. Eye tests are subjective and prone to way too much bias and error. We can't process everything we are seeing and tend to filter things as they relate to our predisposed biases. It's worse with something like Jordan because you're going from figments of memories that are over 20 years old and have forgotten most of what you saw from him. You remember all the highlights but have tended to forget all the failures. LeBron's successes and failures both are recent, so it's easier to critique him.

Michael Jordan is considered better because people remember the highlight dunks and love scoring. They forget he had really bad games just like everyone else, and unlike LeBron, didn't always have to do nearly as much. Make no mistake, MJ was great and capable of doing a lot, but look at him side by side with LeBron, especially at the same stage of his career, and there's no question you can make a great case for LeBron being better.

LeBron James age 21 to age 31:

Regular: 27.8 PPG, 7.3 RPG, 7.0 APG, 34.2% 3-pt, 54.4% eFG, 1.7 SPG, 0.8 BPG, 3.4 TOPG, Rating: 118/102
Playoffs: 28.0 PPG, 8.8 RPG, 6.8 APG, 32.1% 3-pt, 51.3% eFG, 1.8 SPG, 0.9 BPG, 3.5 TOPG, Rating: 115/101
3 rings, 7 finals appearances, 4 MVP, 3 Finals MVP

Michael Jordan age 21 to age 31:

Regular: 32.1 PPG, 6.3 RPG, 5.9 APG, 30.7% 3-pt, 52.3% eFG, 2.7 SPG, 1.1 BPG, 3.0 TOPG, Rating: 121/103
Playoffs: 34.4 PPG, 6.7 RPG, 6.5 APG, 35.4% 3-pt, 51.5% eFG, 2.3 SPG, 1.0 BGP, 3.4 TOPG, Rating: 119/105
3 rings, 3 finals appearances, 3 MVP, 3 Finals MVP

I mean, look at this comparison and tell me you can really say definitively one is better through this juncture? Michael has better scoring numbers but he wasn't more efficient in doing so, he simply took more shots as the effective field goal rates are pretty close. Michael was slightly better offensively by rating (barely) and LeBron's defensive rating was better (barely), although Michael was as good a perimeter defender as it gets. LeBron's defensive value comes from his being able to defend 1-5.

Nonetheless, at this stage, they both have 3 rings and 3 MVPs in the NBA Finals. LeBron has four more finals appearances and one extra regular season MVP.

With a true apples-to-apples comparison at where they are both at in the NBA at age 31, a case can be made for LeBron being better. I think MJ is obviously more accomplished because he went on to have three more titles later in his career, but that doesn't make him better. It makes him more accomplished.

The script can still be finished for LeBron to catch up with all the accomplishments. But in sheer qualitative analysis to where LeBron is at and where Michael was at age 31, it's not crazy to go LeBron.

 

[EBonz30]

There's no scientist ever that studies things for a living that would quantify something and do so by saying the eye test is better than actual statistical analysis. Eye tests are subjective and prone to way too much bias and error. We can't process everything we are seeing and tend to filter things as they relate to our predisposed biases. It's worse with something like Jordan because you're going from figments of memories that are over 20 years old and have forgotten most of what you saw from him. You remember all the highlights but have tended to forget all the failures. LeBron's successes and failures both are recent, so it's easier to critique him.

Michael Jordan is considered better because people remember the highlight dunks and love scoring. They forget he had really bad games just like everyone else, and unlike LeBron, didn't always have to do nearly as much. Make no mistake, MJ was great and capable of doing a lot, but look at him side by side with LeBron, especially at the same stage of his career, and there's no question you can make a great case for LeBron being better.

LeBron James age 21 to age 31:

Regular: 27.8 PPG, 7.3 RPG, 7.0 APG, 34.2% 3-pt, 54.4% eFG, 1.7 SPG, 0.8 BPG, 3.4 TOPG, Rating: 118/102
Playoffs: 28.0 PPG, 8.8 RPG, 6.8 APG, 32.1% 3-pt, 51.3% eFG, 1.8 SPG, 0.9 BPG, 3.5 TOPG, Rating: 115/101
3 rings, 7 finals appearances, 4 MVP, 3 Finals MVP

Michael Jordan age 21 to age 31:

Regular: 32.1 PPG, 6.3 RPG, 5.9 APG, 30.7% 3-pt, 52.3% eFG, 2.7 SPG, 1.1 BPG, 3.0 TOPG, Rating: 121/103
Playoffs: 34.4 PPG, 6.7 RPG, 6.5 APG, 35.4% 3-pt, 51.5% eFG, 2.3 SPG, 1.0 BGP, 3.4 TOPG, Rating: 119/105
3 rings, 3 finals appearances, 3 MVP, 3 Finals MVP

I mean, look at this comparison and tell me you can really say definitively one is better through this juncture? Michael has better scoring numbers but he wasn't more efficient in doing so, he simply took more shots as the effective field goal rates are pretty close. Michael was slightly better offensively by rating (barely) and LeBron's defensive rating was better (barely), although Michael was as good a perimeter defender as it gets. LeBron's defensive value comes from his being able to defend 1-5.

Nonetheless, at this stage, they both have 3 rings and 3 MVPs in the NBA Finals. LeBron has four more finals appearances and one extra regular season MVP.

With a true apples-to-apples comparison at where they are both at in the NBA at age 31, a case can be made for LeBron being better. I think MJ is obviously more accomplished because he went on to have three more titles later in his career, but that doesn't make him better. It makes him more accomplished.

The script can still be finished for LeBron to catch up with all the accomplishments. But in sheer qualitative analysis to where LeBron is at and where Michael was at age 31, it's not crazy to go LeBron.

Your not gathering, but it's okay.

 

[Robertelamin]

Jordan would probably have another ring if the NBA didn't suspend him a year for gambling in his Prime.

 

[mauconnfan]

This is a a wholly irrational and purely insane criticism. You've never taken a spill and screamed out in pain for a minute only to find out after the pain subsided, you weren't injured?

I fell down steps to the basement a few months ago. I landed on my knee. I swore something broke. I was in agony for about 2-3 minutes screaming and bordering in tears it hurt so bad. Within 5 minutes, I was walking on it and turns out nothing was wrong.

The idea that he was pretending to be hurt is ridiculous. Haters of his come up with some odd, usually stupid criticism. But that is over the top.

No I never did. Again "hater" is a stupid statement. I'm not a fan but respect the man for his ability in a huge way. Doesn't mean I hate him, grow the hell up and quite falling downstairs and whining.

 

[Robertelamin]

Ouch

 

[kyleslamb]

No I never did. Again "hater" is a stupid statement. I'm not a fan but respect the man for his ability in a huge way. Doesn't mean I hate him, grow the hell up and quite falling downstairs and whining.

When you get to the point where a player is fouled and falls 10 feet and lands square on his forearm and screams out in pain, and you're criticizing and accusing him of faking... yes, you're a hater.

 

[jayteeman]

When you get to the point where a player is fouled and falls 10 feet and lands square on his forearm and screams out in pain, and you're criticizing and accusing him of faking... yes, you're a hater.

There is no hate. You just have to watch the replay. The King tried to put the nail in the coffin and Drayvan would have no part of it in his house. The fall was not 10 feet and he did not fall on his wrist.
His attempt failed and like anyone like Lebron, he took the stage once again, thought it over after 5 minutes on the ground, dramatically rose from the dead and sealed the deal.
Now how could anyone be surprised with that?

 

[Rocktheworld]

There is no hate. You just have to watch the replay. The King tried to put the nail in the coffin and Drayvan would have no part of it in his house. The fall was not 10 feet and he did not fall on his wrist.
His attempt failed and like anyone like Lebron, he took the stage once again, thought it over after 5 minutes on the ground, dramatically rose from the dead and sealed the deal.
Now how could anyone be surprised with that?

 

[kyleslamb]

There is no hate. You just have to watch the replay. The King tried to put the nail in the coffin and Drayvan would have no part of it in his house. The fall was not 10 feet and he did not fall on his wrist.
His attempt failed and like anyone like Lebron, he took the stage once again, thought it over after 5 minutes on the ground, dramatically rose from the dead and sealed the deal.
Now how could anyone be surprised with that?

LOL you guys are ridiculous. The fall wasn't 10 feet? He tried dunking it and the NBA rims are 10 feet, therefore he did fall 10 feet. Second, didn't fall on his wrist? Hilarious. The replay shows he did exactly that...



Some of you guys will go to any length to nitpick something.

 

[Fishy]

There is no hate. You just have to watch the replay. The King tried to put the nail in the coffin and Drayvan would have no part of it in his house. The fall was not 10 feet and he did not fall on his wrist.
His attempt failed and like anyone like Lebron, he took the stage once again, thought it over after 5 minutes on the ground, dramatically rose from the dead and sealed the deal.
Now how could anyone be surprised with that?

Blind? Stupid? Drunk?

 

[FeedTheDove]

There is no hate. You just have to watch the replay. The King tried to put the nail in the coffin and Drayvan would have no part of it in his house. The fall was not 10 feet and he did not fall on his wrist.
His attempt failed and like anyone like Lebron, he took the stage once again, thought it over after 5 minutes on the ground, dramatically rose from the dead and sealed the deal.
Now how could anyone be surprised with that?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

[IMind]

Jordon never got the whistle that Lebron gets, never

This is a giant pile of BS. Jordan got the whistle ALL the time.

 

[David 76]

There's no scientist ever that studies things for a living that would quantify something and do so by saying the eye test is better than actual statistical analysis. Eye tests are subjective and prone to way too much bias and error. We can't process everything we are seeing and tend to filter things as they relate to our predisposed biases. It's worse with something like Jordan because you're going from figments of memories that are over 20 years old and have forgotten most of what you saw from him. You remember all the highlights but have tended to forget all the failures. LeBron's successes and failures both are recent, so it's easier to critique him.

Michael Jordan is considered better because people remember the highlight dunks and love scoring. They forget he had really bad games just like everyone else, and unlike LeBron, didn't always have to do nearly as much. Make no mistake, MJ was great and capable of doing a lot, but look at him side by side with LeBron, especially at the same stage of his career, and there's no question you can make a great case for LeBron being better.

LeBron James age 21 to age 31:

Regular: 27.8 PPG, 7.3 RPG, 7.0 APG, 34.2% 3-pt, 54.4% eFG, 1.7 SPG, 0.8 BPG, 3.4 TOPG, Rating: 118/102
Playoffs: 28.0 PPG, 8.8 RPG, 6.8 APG, 32.1% 3-pt, 51.3% eFG, 1.8 SPG, 0.9 BPG, 3.5 TOPG, Rating: 115/101
3 rings, 7 finals appearances, 4 MVP, 3 Finals MVP

Michael Jordan age 21 to age 31:

Regular: 32.1 PPG, 6.3 RPG, 5.9 APG, 30.7% 3-pt, 52.3% eFG, 2.7 SPG, 1.1 BPG, 3.0 TOPG, Rating: 121/103
Playoffs: 34.4 PPG, 6.7 RPG, 6.5 APG, 35.4% 3-pt, 51.5% eFG, 2.3 SPG, 1.0 BGP, 3.4 TOPG, Rating: 119/105
3 rings, 3 finals appearances, 3 MVP, 3 Finals MVP

I mean, look at this comparison and tell me you can really say definitively one is better through this juncture? Michael has better scoring numbers but he wasn't more efficient in doing so, he simply took more shots as the effective field goal rates are pretty close. Michael was slightly better offensively by rating (barely) and LeBron's defensive rating was better (barely), although Michael was as good a perimeter defender as it gets. LeBron's defensive value comes from his being able to defend 1-5.

Nonetheless, at this stage, they both have 3 rings and 3 MVPs in the NBA Finals. LeBron has four more finals appearances and one extra regular season MVP.

With a true apples-to-apples comparison at where they are both at in the NBA at age 31, a case can be made for LeBron being better. I think MJ is obviously more accomplished because he went on to have three more titles later in his career, but that doesn't make him better. It makes him more accomplished.

The script can still be finished for LeBron to catch up with all the accomplishments. But in sheer qualitative analysis to where LeBron is at and where Michael was at age 31, it's not crazy to go LeBron.

I would like to compare stats late in big games. In my memory, that is where MJ was most exceptional. I'm open to my memory being biased by nostalgia. But I think people are making too much of the difference between two of the greatest players ever born.

 

[TasteofUConn]

I would like to compare stats late in big games. In my memory, that is where MJ was most exceptional.

Not really. I've seen Jordan's shot % on game winning shots and it's not off the charts.
What made Jordan great was the very rare combination of top 1% athleticism and top 1% iron will.
Usually when you get a guy with top 1% athleticism, you get a Stanley or a Carmelo or a Ryan Leaf or an Anthony Harris (Danbury call out), Rudy Gay, or a Vince Carter, who can do very well without giving it 100%, and are partially complacent.
Usually when you get a guy with top 1% iron will you get a physically inferior athlete who makes up for it with effort. Think Rudi (the movie), Donny Marshall, Andre Agassi.

There aren't 5 guys I've ever seen who combine the two. Jordan, Tyson, Bo . . .

LeBron is top .001% athleticism, and a markedly better athlete than Jordan, but doesn't have the iron will. LeBron could likely be world class at every sport that exists, with the exception of jockeying, if that counts.

 

[David 76]

I would still like to see those numbers. Was he like how I remember? Or has the legend become even greater than the man.
I like your point about athleticism and iron will. Jordan hated losing.

 

[lange10]

This is a giant pile of BS. Jordan got the whistle ALL the time.

Lol, thank you. Another one I always hear is "LeBron complains after every play." As if to say Jordan, Magic and the other greats didn't just as much. I never saw those guys play so I didn't really know how they acted on the court but I believe it was Colin Cowherd who said they were the same if not worse in terms of complaining to the refs. All the superstars do it, plain and simple.

 

[jayteeman]

sorry,

LOL you guys are ridiculous. The fall wasn't 10 feet? He tried dunking it and the NBA rims are 10 feet, therefore he did fall 10 feet. Second, didn't fall on his wrist? Hilarious. The replay shows he did exactly that...



Some of you guys will go to any length to nitpick something.

Hmmm....If he could dunk with his feet it would be 10 feet. How about showing the next 10 minutes after the spiral descend from the heavens when he is curled up in the fetus position ready for the stretcher waiting for the flagrant call on Draymond.
Quite a spiritual moment to witness the recovery.

 

[kyleslamb]

sorry,

Hmmm....If he could dunk with his feet it would be 10 feet. How about showing the next 10 minutes after the spiral descend from the heavens when he is curled up in the fetus position ready for the stretcher waiting for the flagrant call on Draymond.
Quite a spiritual moment to witness the recovery.

Dude, just own that you are a hater. Don't run away from it. Just admit it. If you're going to be foolish, at least own up to hating him.

 

[HuskiesU]

Dude is a Diva drama queen. Whats all rhe calls attention and willing to abandoned his kids for a championship. Im not hating just upset the NBA is full of yall know what. If you can go back and change a call 2 days later. They should be able to go back and change a mis call.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Dude is a Diva drama queen. Whats all rhe calls attention and willing to abandoned his kids for a championship. Im not hating just upset the NBA is full of yall know what. If you can go back and change a call 2 days later. They should be able to go back and change a mis call.

It's Wednesday night, bud. Put down the bottle.