Lebron James

[David 76]

Call it what you want, you are entitled to your opinion and i'm fine with that. I thought it stunk of a player he was scared that his legacy was heading down the path of never winning a ring. So lets take less money and me and wade and bosh team up, and lets get good role players to take pay cuts too. Some viewed it as amazing that a player would put winning over money. I saw and see it as a player he was scared for his legacy and bought a chip! My opinion.

Werent Kob and Shaq both on max contracts? Who was taking pay cuts to play together? This taking a pay cut, imo is equivalent to saying, to saying I will pay X amount of dollars towards a chip if you guys do it too (other teammates). Respect that or not, that is a personal choice. I dont respect it, and i think its cowardly. Those rings were gimmies. If Lebron, and Curry and Durant and West Brook and James harden all teamed up and all took significant pay cuts, I would look at all of them in the same light, I think its weak.

Jordan did this so there was enough money for other players. It was, and is, an unselfish thing.

 

[UconnFanNVa]

Jordan did this so there was enough money for other players. It was, and is, an unselfish thing.

Mind pointing out when and what he was making and how much of a cut it was. I honestly don't remember this ever happening. Either way, IF that happened sane thing. It weakens the chip to me because taking a pay cut for more talent is paying for a chip and legacy, it devalues the accomplishment. Don't remember mj ever doing this though.

 

[James]

It's KAJ, Jordan and bron in no particular order as far as tier one, I'm sure most agree? Lebron is in this conversation because frankly he is the best playoff player ever. Who gives a crap about ego it's like folks forgot about Jordan

 

[EBonz30]

It's KAJ, Jordan and bron in no particular order as far as tier one, I'm sure most agree? Lebron is in this conversation because frankly he is the best playoff player ever. Who gives a crap about ego it's like folks forgot about Jordan

Easy, not the best playoff player ever...but yes top 3 of all time...

 

[superjohn]

Jordan, Magic, Wilt, Lebron, Kareem, Russell and Bird are the seven best players ever IMO.

 

[James]

Easy, not the best playoff player ever...but yes top 3 of all time...

no he is the best playoff player ever, statistically speaking and from what i've seen. take your pic: win shares, vorp, box score plus minus, he's the only player with MULTIPLE runs in the top ten or top five. 09 lebron is the best player ive seen and the numbers match up with that, its too bad his team was crap or he coulda battled kobe.

Player Season Finder | Basketball-Reference.com

 

[EBonz30]

no he is the best playoff player ever, statistically speaking and from what i've seen. take your pic: win shares, vorp, box score plus minus, he's the only player with MULTIPLE seasons in the top ten or top five.

Player Season Finder | Basketball-Reference.com

Did you watch Michael Jordan in his prime?

 

[Chin Diesel]

Jordan, Magic, Wilt, Lebron, Kareem, Russell and Bird are the seven best players ever IMO.

That's about right. Tim Duncan knocks on the door but I don't know how I could pull any of those 7 for Timmy.

 

[James]

Did you watch Michael Jordan in his prime?

I did but none of that matters, i didn't watch kareem in his prime but i'm well aware of his production to put him in the top 3.

 

[EBonz30]

I did but none of that matters, i didn't watch kareem in his prime but i'm well aware of his production to put him in the top 3.

Okay, stats are good, but eye test is better as well as results..

I watched both players almost every single game they've played in the playoffs....Jordan is better sorry...it's a non conversation at this point, I don't want to get into why and this or that, because it's just a silly conversation, ignorant to even argue or conversate about it, so I will stop now...

 

[James]

Okay, stats are good, but eye test is better as well as results..

I watched both players almost every single game they've played in the playoffs....Jordan is better sorry...it's a non conversation at this point, I don't want to get into why and this or that, because it's just a silly conversation, ignorant to even argue or conversate about it, so I will stop now...

alright bruh but nobody really asked you to have any conversation. i'll take b'ref's stat models over your hazy memory from 40 years ago... 2012-current playoff lebron is the most productive and efficient postseason player ever.

 

[EBonz30]

alright bruh but nobody really asked you to have any conversation. i'll take b'ref's stat models over your hazy memory from 40 years ago... 2012-current playoff lebron is the most productive and efficient postseason player ever.

*20 years ago...lol

 

[Chin Diesel]

Jordan was and forever will be the indomitable Alpha male. Never taking the supporting role to anyone. His will power to force everyone to match his intensity and will to win is his calling card.

LeBron is much more like Magic. He wants all his teammates to be their best and he wants to be the facilitator who makes it happen. The straw that stirs the drink. Jordan was the drink.

I honestly believe LeBron would be happy playing at age 40 scoring 12 points, getting 8 boards and 8 assists. Just my opinion.

 

[James]

*20 years ago...lol

did i miss something? KAJ played in the 96 finals? learned to read through my initial posts where i told I saw MJs prime.

 

[superjohn]

That's about right. Tim Duncan knocks on the door but I don't know how I could pull any of those 7 for Timmy.

Rounding out the top 10 would be Timmy, Hakeem and Oscar. Dr. J, Kobe and West just outside top 10.

 

[EBonz30]

did i miss something? KAJ played in the 96 finals? learned to read through my initial posts where i told I saw MJs prime.

I said Jordan, not Kareem, your post said LeBron greatest all time in the playoffs....I said no Jordan was...Jordan's prime was in the nineties, not 40 years ago....

 

[tzznandrew]

I'm going to leave this here for the haters:
NBA & ABA Career Playoff Leaders and Records for Win Shares | Basketball-Reference.com

To be fair: he played twenty more games.

A fairer gauge:

NBA & ABA Career Playoff Leaders and Records for Win Shares Per 48 Minutes | Basketball-Reference.com

 

[Chin Diesel]

Rounding out the top 10 would be Timmy, Hakeem and Oscar. Dr. J, Kobe and West just outside top 10.

I'd sign off on that list.

 

[tentoes4rings]

Rounding out the top 10 would be Timmy, Hakeem and Oscar. Dr. J, Kobe and West just outside top 10.

I'm good with this list overall too but despite being a huge Hakeem fan, I'd be okay with putting Kobe over one of those 3 to be in the top ten. Where does Shaq go?

 

[superjohn]

I'm good with this list overall too but despite being a huge Hakeem fan, I'd be okay with putting Kobe over one of those 3 to be in the top ten. Where does Shaq go?

I forgot to list Shaq, he is in the grouping with Duncan and Hakeem a couple spots ahead of Kobe.

 

[80shusky]

Jordan was and forever will be the indomitable Alpha male. Never taking the supporting role to anyone. His will power to force everyone to match his intensity and will to win is his calling card.

LeBron is much more like Magic. He wants all his teammates to be their best and he wants to be the facilitator who makes it happen. The straw that stirs the drink. Jordan was the drink.

I honestly believe LeBron would be happy playing at age 40 scoring 12 points, getting 8 boards and 8 assists. Just my opinion.

This is a good comparison. Jordan was a scorer and an excellent defender and would eat your liver in front of you to win a game. I would say Jordan's on ball defense was as good or better than most. Lebron however is a better overall defender (weak side, help etc.). Lebron is a better all around player than Jordan was. Jordan however helped bring great attention to the NBA along with Bird and Magic and was an incredible scorer, lethal and clutch. I still think of Jordan as the best ever but that is pretty subjective when you talk about the top 10 or so players. How do you really compare Jordan to Lebron or to Wilt or Russell or Magic or Jerry West or Jabbar or Duncan or the Big O? At some point you like who you like or who you saw play. I saw a whole lot of Magic, Bird and Jordan on TV. So I tend to think of Jordan as the best.

 

[BUConn10]

I can't read threads like this.

People micro analyzing how "real" Lebron's emotions were at the game or how it was selfish to hold up 3 fingers. None of us have any idea what it's like to be so truly great at what you do, something that millions of people follow and scrutinize closely. When you are great, and I mean truly great, you will NEED an ego to survive and the push you to be better than your peers who are also the greatest players in the world.

Anyone that is going to sit here and tell me Jordan didn't care about Legacy is a fool, or else he wouldn't have taken massive paycuts throughout his dynasty with the Bulls so that they could add other stars. This is the Internet age, guys like Lebron are under the public eye 24/7 and that irks people for some odd reason despite the fact that the guy is one of the most respectable athletes in the world (look at the scandals the NFL has had in the last year alone). If the Internet and Facebook existed during the 90a when Jordan was king he'd be one of the most hated "great" athletes ever. The guy was a world reknowned and womanizer but because the only media back then was TV, his image was easily molded by the league and Nike.

 

[tzznandrew]

This is a good comparison. Jordan was a scorer and an excellent defender and would eat your liver in front of you to win a game. I would say Jordan's on ball defense was as good or better than most. Lebron however is a better overall defender (weak side, help etc.). Lebron is a better all around player than Jordan was. Jordan however helped bring great attention to the NBA along with Bird and Magic and was an incredible scorer, lethal and clutch. I still think of Jordan as the best ever but that is pretty subjective when you talk about the top 10 or so players. How do you really compare Jordan to Lebron or to Wilt or Russell or Magic or Jerry West or Jabbar or Duncan or the Big O? At some point you like who you like or who you saw play. I saw a whole lot of Magic, Bird and Jordan on TV. So I tend to think of Jordan as the best.

Sorry, LeBron is not a better overall player than Jordan.

And the suggestion than somehow LeBron's defense--which, to be clear, was fantastic in these NBA Finals--was better than Jordan's is crazy. He was a lock down defender and won MVP and DPOY in the same year. It wasn't "as good as most," it was Leonard or Draymond good on the perimeter.

Obviously your point that it is hard to compare eras is fair, but Jordan combined offense and defense and winning in a way no other player ever has.

 

[joober jones]

The guy's good, but he's no Mandeldove.

 

[80shusky]

Sorry, LeBron is not a better overall player than Jordan.

And the suggestion than somehow LeBron's defense--which, to be clear, was fantastic in these NBA Finals--was better than Jordan's is crazy. He was a lock down defender and won MVP and DPOY in the same year. It wasn't "as good as most," it was Leonard or Draymond good on the perimeter.

Obviously your point that it is hard to compare eras is fair, but Jordan combined offense and defense and winning in a way no other player ever has.

I'm a Jordan guy as I stated that I think he is the best. I understand and appreciate your difference of opinion and why I could be and may very well be wrong about some of my statements. That is why these comparisons are so difficult. Your point about being a superior lock down defender to Lebron I agree with though I called him an "on ball" defender. Statistically overall, other than in a few categories, they are pretty similar. LeBron James vs. Michael Jordan Comparison

Lebron, who I don't happen to be a huge fan of, has dragged teams into the playoffs and finals that barely deserve to be there besides his own greatness. Even some of the Miami teams didn't in my mind include supporting casts like Pippen, Rodman, Ho Grant, BJ, Kukoc, Kerr, Ron Harper, Paxson etc. I'm not trying to take away from Jordan's greatness (I couldn't if I tried and I don't want to!), I'm just saying I think he had for the most part better teams to play with than Lebron has had. Lebron's overall game overcome a lot of these deficiencies. He guards 1-5 and plays 1-5 although those roles are different now than in Jordan's NBA.
But your last point, the combining of offense, defense and winning I completely agree with and stated (albeit differently) in the second sentence of my post.
This is why these discussions are interesting due to differing opinions and memories about players and their impact on their teams and on the league. Jordan's impact on the league as a player and ability to be marketed and promoted may not be bettered by another player ever, or at least for a very long time.