OT: - Florida State to sue ACC over GOR | Page 33 | The Boneyard

OT: Florida State to sue ACC over GOR

billybud said:
But. The ESPN contract was secret. The schools never could review it. Until now. And Clemson will get a non redacted copy.

If there have been willful misrepresentations, the ACC will be in a bad way. Clemson is suing for damages and, I’d suppose, FSU might follow. I hear old Dandy Don singing softly..”Close the door, turn out the lights, the party’s over”.
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That is a bit of a leap that you are taking my friend.

If the member schools were never allowed to see the signed contract, why did it take this long for someone to take action?

If (as you had claimed more than once in the recent past) that the ACC commissioner went beyond his authority, it would be an open and shut case and we'd already be at the point where damages are being determined.

The reality is what happened falls somewhere in a gray area between the commissioner/conference having done everything within the letter of their authority (even if the appearance is that information had been withheld from member schools) and the commissioner/conference took liberties that weren't allowed within the letter of their authority.

The party isn't over, it is just beginning.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
That is a bit of a leap that you are taking my friend.

If the member schools were never allowed to see the signed contract, why did it take this long for someone to take action?

If (as you had claimed more than once in the recent past) that the ACC commissioner went beyond his authority, it would be an open and shut case and we'd already be at the point where damages are being determined.

The reality is what happened falls somewhere in a gray area between the commissioner/conference having done everything within the letter of their authority (even if the appearance is that information had been withheld from member schools) and the commissioner/conference took liberties that weren't allowed within the letter of their authority.

The party isn't over, it is just beginning.
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I don't have a dog in this fight but is it reasonable to suggest around 8-9 of the schools were better off being wilfully ignorant of what's in the contract? For BCU, Cuse, Pitt amd others they weren't ever getting a better deal for the duration of the contract.
 
The key issue appears to me to be that the ACC acted improperly in extending the ESPN extension option from 2021 to 2025, without approval of 2/3 of the schools. If that is the case, I would think a judge may find for FSU and Clemson.
 
The Yakk said:
LOL Has FSU given up on the private equity idea already?

A lot of unintentional comedy coming out of that administration, for sure.
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"FSU has a lot of experience financing large expenditures and the Athletic Department is in a solid financial position to borrow at a very low interest rate without ceding any management control to a third party. FSU’s discussions with private equity firms likely will narrow in the future to a possible limited partnership involving an investment in FSU’s licensing activities by a party with expertise to boost the brand value of the Athletic Department. There have been similar partnerships in recent years, particularly in minor-league baseball, that have proven beneficial for ownership groups and private equity firms.

Over the past year, FSU’s athletic department, flush with positive cash flow, set in motion $503 million in projects that require bond financing. Resolutions approved by the State’s Division of Bond Finance in December 2023, identify two projects: $116 million for a new Football Operations Facility, and $265 million for renovations to the football stadium (e.g.., luxury boxes, premium seating areas, chairbacks for general seating areas)."
 
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When I was kid, my prize possession was a Fanner 50. A cap gun with a modified hammer allowing bursts of un aimed shots by fanning the hammer.
 
billybud said:
"FSU has a lot of experience financing large expenditures and the Athletic Department is in a solid financial position to borrow at a very low interest rate without ceding any management control to a third party. FSU’s discussions with private equity firms likely will narrow in the future to a possible limited partnership involving an investment in FSU’s licensing activities by a party with expertise to boost the brand value of the Athletic Department. There have been similar partnerships in recent years, particularly in minor-league baseball, that have proven beneficial for ownership groups and private equity firms.

Over the past year, FSU’s athletic department, flush with positive cash flow, set in motion $503 million in projects that require bond financing. Resolutions approved by the State’s Division of Bond Finance in December 2023, identify two projects: $116 million for a new Football Operations Facility, and $265 million for renovations to the football stadium (e.g.., luxury boxes, premium seating areas, chairbacks for general seating areas)."
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Very cool. FSU is "flush with positive cash flow", but they also need to go borrow money or get a capital infusion from private equity.

Meanwhile they throw a Hail Mary lawsuit to try to weasel out of the GOR, when they could easily just pay a good faith settlement to their conference "partners" and füćk off into the night.

And why is it so imperative to leave the ACC? Because their lesser conference partners do not recognize their divine right to an unequal share of the conference revenues.

Like I said, unintentional comedy. Whichever lucky P2 conference inherits this clown show is in for a world of fun.
 
The Yakk said:
LOL Has FSU given up on the private equity idea already?

A lot of unintentional comedy coming out of that administration, for sure.
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The Yakk said:
Very cool. FSU is "flush with positive cash flow", but they also need to go borrow money or get a capital infusion from private equity.

Meanwhile they throw a Hail Mary lawsuit to try to weasel out of the GOR, when they could easily just pay a good faith settlement to their conference "partners" and füćk off into the night.

And why is it so imperative to leave the ACC? Because their lesser conference partners do not recognize their divine right to an unequal share of the conference revenues.

Like I said, unintentional comedy. Whichever lucky P2 conference inherits this clown show is in for a world of fun.
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There is really nothing to add to this analysis. You have absolutely nailed the absurdity of FSU's behavior. We can close this thread.
 
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billybud said:
But. The ESPN contract was secret. The schools never could review it. Until now. And Clemson will get a non redacted copy.

If there have been willful misrepresentations, the ACC will be in a bad way. Clemson is suing for damages and, I’d suppose, FSU might follow. I hear old Dandy Don singing softly..”Close the door, turn out the lights, the party’s over”.
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FSU and Clemson will lose their suits. They know they’re going to lose their suits, but they’re hoping the ACC and ESPN see just enough jeopardy to negotiate an exit.

But to where? The SEC already has their state flagships and the Big Ten wouldn’t want them. So to where? The Big 12? Feels like a lot of work to jump from one boiling pot to another.
 
Fishy said:
FSU and Clemson will lose their suits. They know they’re going to lose their suits, but they’re hoping the ACC and ESPN see just enough jeopardy to negotiate an exit.

But to where? The SEC already has their state flagships and the Big Ten wouldn’t want them. So to where? The Big 12? Feels like a lot of work to jump from one boiling pot to another.
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I think BIG would definitely want FSU. Would fit well in the BIG and provide BIG a team in Florida. I think FSU would rather go to SEC.
 
CJasmer said:
I think BIG would definitely want FSU. Would fit well in the BIG and provide BIG a team in Florida. I think FSU would rather go to SEC.
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I disagree with this. I believe FSU wants the Big10. It sets them apart from the other southern schools. It puts them in a national conference that will play games in almost every corner of the nation (SW/Texas and Northeast - hello UConn, not withstanding). Alabama’s application rate increased tremendously when they started winning, partly because they were always on TV.

FSU playing games in Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Illinois (all still top 10 in population) increases their visibility. Games against USC and UCLA puts them smack dab in Souther Cali. Games against the brands of the Big10 will have very high viewership. All of this potentially increases their application rates allowing them to be more selective on who they admit.

They would need more local team to develop a rivalry with. While I don’t think Clemson would be a great fit with the Big10, they would fill that rival role well. That is why Miami was thrown around as a partner was well.
 
CJasmer said:
I think BIG would definitely want FSU. Would fit well in the BIG and provide BIG a team in Florida. I think FSU would rather go to SEC.
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The Big Ten deals in flagships, not middle sisters.

FSU has already begged the B10 and SEC for a look. Didn’t happen.
 
I kind of agree with Fishy. If it was Florida maybe the Big 10 says yes. In the same way they wouldn’t take NC State to get a foothold in North Carolina or Texas A&M to get Texas they won’t take FSU to get access to the Sunshine State. I wonder if FSU and Clemson over played their hand here. I read one analysis very early in the process that suggested that the administration bowed to political pressure and really didn’t have a plan. They were hoping to latch onto the SEC but didn’t have a guarantee of any sort. Sort of like the dog who chases a car and catches it. Now what?
 
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Fishy said:
FSU and Clemson will lose their suits. They know they’re going to lose their suits, but they’re hoping the ACC and ESPN see just enough jeopardy to negotiate an exit.

But to where? The SEC already has their state flagships and the Big Ten wouldn’t want them. So to where? The Big 12? Feels like a lot of work to jump from one boiling pot to another.
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I do not think that FSU “loses” their suit. After all, they have just asked the court to define just what the GOR-ESPN really means in terms of Member obligations. If you mean, the ACC owns their rights to 2036. Don’t think so based on Clemson’s filing from their lawyers who have seen it. Jmho
 
billybud said:
"FSU has a lot of experience financing large expenditures and the Athletic Department is in a solid financial position to borrow at a very low interest rate without ceding any management control to a third party. FSU’s discussions with private equity firms likely will narrow in the future to a possible limited partnership involving an investment in FSU’s licensing activities by a party with expertise to boost the brand value of the Athletic Department. There have been similar partnerships in recent years, particularly in minor-league baseball, that have proven beneficial for ownership groups and private equity firms.
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Any athletic department that gets involved with private equity is crazy as private equity wants to maximize profit for themselves.
 
billybud said:
I do not think that FSU “loses” their suit. After all, they have just asked the court to define just what the GOR-ESPN really means in terms of Member obligations. If you mean, the ACC owns their rights to 2036. Don’t think so based on Clemson’s filing from their lawyers who have seen it. Jmho
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I believe that you are still missing a massive point, which is why the Florida judge informed FSU that they need to amend their lawsuit.

The courts aren't there to determine in advance how a contract should be interpreted. If a party believes that actions were not within terms of a contract, then the courts can be asked to determine if something was or was not within contracted terms.
 
FSU has only explored PE. But went to issuing bonds. UCF took out 30 million loan and 90 million in bonds to improve the Bouncy House.
 
Fishy said:
The Big Ten deals in flagships, not middle sisters.

FSU has already begged the B10 and SEC for a look. Didn’t happen.
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There are no absolutes. The Big Ten just took UCLA and USC both from LA. It has both Indiana and Purdue. It has Michigan State and Northwestern. FSU is a more valuable football program than most of the Big Ten programs. No sense in limiting to official flagships at this point. It's Florida and I don't think FSU takes a back seat to Florida in terms of value.

Clemson is another story. But at the same time, both FSU and Clemson must have something lined up to file suits.
 
Those are all “legacy schools” if you will. Very different. UCLA is a different beast too. Major public university and USC needed a partner and had the clout to get one.
 
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billybud said:
I do not think that FSU “loses” their suit. After all, they have just asked the court to define just what the GOR-ESPN really means in terms of Member obligations. If you mean, the ACC owns their rights to 2036. Don’t think so based on Clemson’s filing from their lawyers who have seen it. Jmho
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You’re wishcasting.
 
Kolumbo said:
There are no absolutes. The Big Ten just took UCLA and USC both from LA. It has both Indiana and Purdue. It has Michigan State and Northwestern. FSU is a more valuable football program than most of the Big Ten programs. No sense in limiting to official flagships at this point. It's Florida and I don't think FSU takes a back seat to Florida in terms of value.

Clemson is another story. But at the same time, both FSU and Clemson must have something lined up to file suits.
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Stop it. Lord, just stop it.

USC and UCLA are in a different stratosphere than FSU.

Indiana, Purdue and Michigan joined the B10 in the 1800s. THE 1800’s! So stop.

Clemson and FSU are hoping to force some kind of negotiation. This “oh, lordy, we haz no idea what’s in our contract” line is nonsensical. Y’all signed and lived under it quite happily until the other guys started to make more money.

This is checkers. They’re playing checkers because they can’t play chess.
 
Fishy said:
Stop it. Lord, just stop it.

USC and UCLA are in a different stratosphere than FSU.

Indiana, Purdue and Michigan joined the B10 in the 1800s. THE 1800’s! So stop.

Clemson and FSU are hoping to force some kind of negotiation. This “oh, lordy, we haz no idea what’s in our contract” line is nonsensical. Y’all signed and lived under it quite happily until the other guys started to make more money.

This is checkers. They’re playing checkers because they can’t play chess.
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Nevertheless, the B1G does not just deal with flagships, and in the case of FSU, it's a distinction without a difference, as it were. It's Florida. The Big Ten would probably add USF at this point to get into the sunshine state.
 
The Big Ten really holds all the cards at this point- they don't need to add any additional schools - ND is the only school that gets a guaranteed invite
 
The Yakk said:
Very cool. FSU is "flush with positive cash flow", but they also need to go borrow money or get a capital infusion from private equity.

Meanwhile they throw a Hail Mary lawsuit to try to weasel out of the GOR, when they could easily just pay a good faith settlement to their conference "partners" and füćk off into the night.

And why is it so imperative to leave the ACC? Because their lesser conference partners do not recognize their divine right to an unequal share of the conference revenues.

Like I said, unintentional comedy. Whichever lucky P2 conference inherits this clown show is in for a world of fun.
Expand ...
Of course FSU wants more money than they get in the ACC, but it also seems like they are convinced the ACC has been driven far too long by the Tobacco Road/basketball schools and perhaps to the point of the conference not taking a vote on whether to extend their contract with ESPN. Seems like they feel like they have been spurned for too long and they've reached the breaking point. The ACC not fighting for FSU to the CFP this past season seems like their last straw.
 
Fishy said:
The Big Ten deals in flagships, not middle sisters.

FSU has already begged the B10 and SEC for a look. Didn’t happen.
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FSU isn't a middle sister in any analysis... And you have it on authority that FSU hasn't had intermediary dialog with the B1G? You must have great sources.
 
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