OT: Florida State to sue ACC over GOR

[The Yakk]

Looks like Clemson and FSU are doing the formerly unthinkable...charging at the GOR electrified fence with a grim determination to break out of the corral. Do or die...Like I posited long ago...a situation where Butch and Sundance were backed up to the cliff edge with their only move to hold hands and jump into the river...(I like that analogy better than Thelma and Louise's going out similarly).

I think the Krays are the best analogy. Acting entirely in greedy self-interest, FSU and Clemson will continue down the path they are on--ignoring contracts, laws, and basic business ethics--until they eventually shoot their own dicks off.

Look, we all understand why they want out. So just make a good faith settlement offer to the so-called "partners" you want to step over and then get lost.

The path they are on is going to cost a hell of a lot more in the long run.

Although is sure is funny seeing their fans get riled up over all the supposed breaches and loopholes they think will let them escape the ACC for free.

 

[huskymedic]

The ACC’s Uncertain Future

The ACC is fighting for its survival as it engages in four lawsuits over the enforceability of the contracts binding the conference together.

frontofficesports.com

 

[billybud]

The SEC-ESPN Agreement has been found. If the ACC-ESPN Agreement has the same boilerplate...it is huge for Clemson and FSU and I could see why it would be kept on the hush-hush.

The language "for as long as as the Institution is a member of the SEC..." ...means that if an Institution leaves the conference, the conference does not control rights into the future.

The ACC governing documents...By laws, Constitution allow an Institution to leave the conference upon notice and payment of an Exit Fee. The ACC GOR states that the Institution grants the ACC rights for the sole purpose of fulfilling the duties of the ESPN Agreement.

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[billybud]

But...the national narrative seems to be changing. From the narrative that the GOR is an ironclad, unbreakable, no parole sentence to maybe the ACC will lose teams.

FSU charged recklessly like the Light Brigade against the cannons. The cannons of public opinion from the left of them, from the right of them, in front of them, volleyed and thundered. Oh, the wild charge they made. All the world wondered.

Whether there is a settlement or a protracted court battle and appeal remains to be seen...I am curious about what will be the tone in the court as it convenes in Florida tomorrow.

 

[billybud]

In a nutshell, if the ACC loses and the GOR is invalidated, ESPN may not renew the ESPN-ACC Agreement in 2027 and the ACC could go the way of the PAC 12. If the ACC settles with Clemsom/FSU, then the ACC may survive.

 

[Huskygrad88]

I guess, but wouldn’t this have come up when Maryland had to settle and part of the problem was that the ACC owned their rights? Maybe MD Was not smart enough to bring up this point, but you would think some lawyer for them would have made the point as part of the argument when leaving.

Then again, maybe they did and I just do not follow it that closely because I’ve got no dog in these fights. Also because each time someone makes a point in this thread it is really just seems like a grasp to have some confirmation bias for how they hope it will go.

 

[billybud]

I guess, but wouldn’t this have come up when Maryland had to settle and part of the problem was that the ACC owned their rights? Maybe MD Was not smart enough to bring up this point, but you would think some lawyer for them would have made the point as part of the argument when leaving.

Then again, maybe they did and I just do not follow it that closely because I’ve got no dog in these fights. Also because each time someone makes a point in this thread it is really just seems like a grasp to have some confirmation bias for how they hope it will go.

There was no GOR when Maryland left...just the $50 million Exit Fee,,,

 

[uconndogs]

I find it very ironic that institutions of higher learning look to wiesel there way out of contracts and long-term relationships all in the interest of economic gain. So much for intelectual integrity.....

 

[billybud]

HUH ? How about being hoodwinked by a conference staff protecting their jobs ? Maybe fraudulently ?

The last numerous years the ACC spread the story that the ACC GOR was not only ironclad but also had an end date of 2036.

The ACC also spread stories that the ESPN agreement had an end date of 2036 tied to the GOR. I do understand why folks bought the stories... for who thought that the ACC head office would mislead folks, especially their ACC member schools.

Now, the ACC has admitted in court that the contact is through 2027. And, as it turns out, The ACC-ESPN Agreement states ESPN had to declare that they were going to extend it to 2036 by the end of 2021. Without consulting his Members, Jim Phillips, ACC Commissioner, unilaterally gave ESPN an extension to until 2027 to declare to renew the ACC-ESPN Agreement.

Only when new leadership at FSU starting asking questions about the reality of such in the ESPN-ACC Agreement, and when answers to specific questions were not satifactory, did they request to get a copy of agreements with ESPN. That was not allowed but, under demand, a lawyer could only review the document in a 'secure' site, take no copies, not pictures, and not even notes (and ain't that strange ?).

The ESPN-ACC Agrrement is a 160 page legal document and a viewer basically had to memorize and recall what was in 160 pages with a limited time to do so. The ACC provided the court with only 13 of 160 pages declaring the rest was a secret.

Sooo...it looks more and more like an ACC admin office that mislead their members, the press and the public, and who put self preservation above corporate honesty.

 

[billybud]

And...since the GOR is available and clearly states that a Member grants their rights to the conference solely to meet the requirements of the ESPN Agreement...it is becoming clear why the ACC has been obfuscating...

No Member has a contract with ESPN..the only link is the contract between the ACC and ESPN...and who knows what that stipulates ?

And, it may be coming clearer that the ACC does not own a members rights when they leave the conferenc

And...it may become clear that the ACC has bluffed about owning member's rights after they leave the conference,,,Clemson has made that part of their filing.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

HUH ? How about being hoodwinked by a conference staff protecting their jobs ? Maybe fraudulently ?

You've made statements similar to this for quite some time. Personally, I believe that if those claims had any truth behind them, eight, ten, twelve current members of the conference would have brought suit against the conference for this.

 

[billybud]

As the UNC Chair of their BOT stated...

"I think this shows that what is supposed to be a member-based organization is not being led in a way that represents the best interests of all the members, but instead, it's really representing the bottom tier of the membership at the expense of the top tier, which is why Clemson and Florida State are doing what they're doing. I think that's just obvious."

Of course, many members are praying that the ACC can not be poached and they end up in a PAC 12 situation...think SMU took a haircut ?

FSU and Clemson can afford the costs of exit...others ?

I suspect there are those like UNC who are just waiting and letting the two rebels take the punches...

 

[billybud]

more from UNC BOT Chair...

"I think that what Clemson is doing is 100 percent proof positive that a significant portion of the membership of the conference is unhappy,” UNC Board of Trustees chair John Preyer told Inside Carolina on Wednesday. “I don't see how it is in anyone's interest for the ACC leadership to try and browbeat its member schools from getting access to information and being transparent. And that's kind of the case Clemson is making.

 

[billybud]

Hang together or hang separately

 

[dayooper]

You've made statements similar to this for quite some time. Personally, I believe that if those claims had any truth behind them, eight, ten, twelve current members of the conference would have brought suit against the conference for this.

The only time they would sue is if they had somewhere to go. Not everyone has a soft landing spot. If the situation benefits you, are going to try and change to something else?

 

[kibblesnbits]

The SEC-ESPN Agreement has been found. If the ACC-ESPN Agreement has the same boilerplate...it is huge for Clemson and FSU and I could see why it would be kept on the hush-hush.

The language "for as long as as the Institution is a member of the SEC..." ...means that if an Institution leaves the conference, the conference does not control rights into the future.

The ACC governing documents...By laws, Constitution allow an Institution to leave the conference upon notice and payment of an Exit Fee. The ACC GOR states that the Institution grants the ACC rights for the sole purpose of fulfilling the duties of the ESPN Agreement.

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This shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the market or contract dynamics. That's not boilerplate - it's a fundamental negotiated term of the agreement. The SEC didn't need the same sort of lock-in as the ACC because when you are on the top of the financial pyramid, there's little or no risk of parties exiting. The ACC members, however, recognized that they were at risk of getting picked off one-by-one with the remaining parties potentially getting screwed. Further, it wasn't even apparent which players would be chosen. At that time accumulating set top boxes on a state by state basis was the goal and conferences were essentially contiguous. Few anticipated the rate of decline of linear TV or the emergence of nationwide conferences. So it was not at all obvious that FSU and Clemson, the schools that now have the highest opinion of themselves, would be the prime targets because they were distant from the Big 10 and Big 12 while being potentially redundant for the SEC due to UF and the eastern USC. So the schools decided as a group, including FSU and Clemson, that the best path was to sign the GOR. Now some think they can do better and want out. It's that simple.

 

[AllHusky]

The "bottom" group is praying that the GOR is ironclad AND lasts until 2036!! Can you imagine if BC and Syracuse ended up free agents and looked to the Serah Williams and SE respectively at having to compete with UConn for a Conference spot? We are a couple of good FB seasons away from eclipsing them. All they can hope for is to hang on to the ACC. (we did just beat BC 2 years ago in FB, yes?)

 

[uconndogs]

This shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the market or contract dynamics. That's not boilerplate - it's a fundamental negotiated term of the agreement. The SEC didn't need the same sort of lock-in as the ACC because when you are on the top of the financial pyramid, there's little or no risk of parties exiting. The ACC members, however, recognized that they were at risk of getting picked off one-by-one with the remaining parties potentially getting screwed. Further, it wasn't even apparent which players would be chosen. At that time accumulating set top boxes on a state by state basis was the goal and conferences were essentially contiguous. Few anticipated the rate of decline of linear TV or the emergence of nationwide conferences. So it was not at all obvious that FSU and Clemson, the schools that now have the highest opinion of themselves, would be the prime targets because they were distant from the Big 10 and Big 12 while being potentially redundant for the SEC due to UF and the eastern USC. So the schools decided as a group, including FSU and Clemson, that the best path was to sign the GOR. Now some think they can do better and want out. It's that simple.

This is exactly correct.

 

[billybud]

This shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the market or contract dynamics. That's not boilerplate - it's a fundamental negotiated term of the agreement. The SEC didn't need the same sort of lock-in as the ACC because when you are on the top of the financial pyramid, there's little or no risk of parties exiting. The ACC members, however, recognized that they were at risk of getting picked off one-by-one with the remaining parties potentially getting screwed. Further, it wasn't even apparent which players would be chosen. At that time accumulating set top boxes on a state by state basis was the goal and conferences were essentially contiguous. Few anticipated the rate of decline of linear TV or the emergence of nationwide conferences. So it was not at all obvious that FSU and Clemson, the schools that now have the highest opinion of themselves, would be the prime targets because they were distant from the Big 10 and Big 12 while being potentially redundant for the SEC due to UF and the eastern USC. So the schools decided as a group, including FSU and Clemson, that the best path was to sign the GOR. Now some think they can do better and want out. It's that simple.

Fundamental lack of understanding of the GOR/ESPN contract and ACC By Laws/Constitution you have....

The GOR is a fairly simple piece...but it does not stand alone...it speaks of "rights" being granted only for the ACC to meet their contract obligations with ESPN....

Now, with those obligations kept a secret by the conference, two schools have asked the courts to declare just what does this binding agreement entail ?

And...if what many of us think has happened, there has been misrepresentation of those obligations by the conference.

Why...why do you think that the conference has been keeping everything secret ? Already it has come out they have lied to the membership. It would not have been known without FSU insisting they needed more than.."this is the way it is because we tell you it is".

Now, you are right about the motivation...FSU and Clemson believe there has been an inept conference administration and that they could do better in another conference...They see the ACC administration as driving the same bus towards the boat launch that the PAC 12 did.

The ACC's heart beats in Tobacco Road. They all play each other while it is FSU that travels to Syracuse and Boston....And..Although Wake Forest is in FSU's division (no Duke or UNC), they have played 10 games combined against North Carolina and Duke in the last five seasons (to FSU's 4).

The court filings are simple...they ask the court to pierce the secret veil and define just what are the contracted obligations of the conference members...neither Clemson nor FSU has resigned from the conference. But they will if the court finds that the contract obligations have been kept secret because they have been misrepresented and the schools may pay the Exit Fee (per the By Laws) and that the ACC may meet their ESPN contract obligations.

I would not be at all surprised if ESPN did not meet their obligation to announce an extension of their ACC contract by 2021 (extend option was from 2027 to 2036) because they have no intention to extend).

 

[billybud]

I guess that I'll be checking for look in updates from the Tallahassee court house today...

Shoot ! I remember when updates from the Tallahassee courthouse meant something different....the good ole days.

 

[uconndogs]

The GOR is a fairly simple piece...but it does not stand alone...it speaks of "rights" being granted only for the ACC to meet their contract obligations with ESPN....

Now, with those obligations kept a secret by the conference, two schools have asked the courts to declare just what does this binding agreement entail ?

Facinating! The ACC, a member institution, had its members enter into a contract with those members not knowing or understanding key provisions of the contracts. Makes me question the overall competence of the respective ADs who, presumably, recommended entering into these contracts to their respective schools.

 

[upstater]

This shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the market or contract dynamics. That's not boilerplate - it's a fundamental negotiated term of the agreement. The SEC didn't need the same sort of lock-in as the ACC because when you are on the top of the financial pyramid, there's little or no risk of parties exiting. The ACC members, however, recognized that they were at risk of getting picked off one-by-one with the remaining parties potentially getting screwed. Further, it wasn't even apparent which players would be chosen. At that time accumulating set top boxes on a state by state basis was the goal and conferences were essentially contiguous. Few anticipated the rate of decline of linear TV or the emergence of nationwide conferences. So it was not at all obvious that FSU and Clemson, the schools that now have the highest opinion of themselves, would be the prime targets because they were distant from the Big 10 and Big 12 while being potentially redundant for the SEC due to UF and the eastern USC. So the schools decided as a group, including FSU and Clemson, that the best path was to sign the GOR. Now some think they can do better and want out. It's that simple.

Exactly. The SEC top dogs will always reserve the right to leave Vanderbilt and Mississippi St and Missouri behind.

 

[uconndogs]

Exactly. The SEC top dogs will always reserve the right to leave Vanderbilt and Mississippi St and Missouri behind.

lol! That's really what you took away from that post?

 

[upstater]

lol! That's really what you took away from that post?

"The SEC didn't need the same sort of lock-in as the ACC because when you are on the top of the financial pyramid, there's little or no risk of parties exiting."

 

[billybud]

courthouse...updates

...The ACC attorney saying FSU's lawsuit is asking the court to do something that is "improper." She's saying the judge doesn't have the authority to do what FSU is asking him to do -- to give an opinion on a contract when FSU hasn't even decided if it is going to leave. She says the court isn't supposed to give "advisory opinions."

...Attorney Peter Rush for FSU is now responding. He explains that FSU isn't asking for improper guidance. They're asking him to resolve a "contract dispute." He's saying FSU and the ACC are in conflict about terms of their deal. And a judge does have the authority to decide those matters.

...FSU attorney says there are three contracts involved here: the ESPN agreement, the ACC Constitution bylaws and the Grant of Rights. Says that FSU still hasn't gotten the ESPN agreement despite asking for it several times. And he says the other two never mention the Grant of Rigfhts.