OT: Florida State to sue ACC over GOR

[billybud]

From Nole source...

-- Judge says this decision to not stay doesn't indicate he believes FSU will win the overall lawsuit. But he does believe the ACC was "forum shopping," and he's not going to use that as a reason to give them jurisdiction where they want it. The First to File will not sway him...he cited precedent cases regarding anticipatory filings.

-- FSU attorneys pointing out that the Grant of Rights was not ratified by the Board of Trustees because Swofford didn't want to present it to the board. Because it would be public record. Judge responds that the ACC is going to argue that FSU took the money from the conference for all these years.

-- FSU argues the judge in North Carolina made a mistake when he applied a NC statute that allowed him to determine FSU waived its sovereign immunity when it joined the ACC. That statue was enacted in 2006, while FSU joined the ACC 15 years earlier. Says they can't be held to that.

-- FSU attorneys saying that when they went to North Carolina to look at the ESPN Agreements, it states the rights to future games only apply when a school is a member. (Which goes to the Clemson lawsuit and FSU's amended lawsuit ... that once a school leaves, their rights go with them.)

-- ACC attorney says Florida courts wouldn’t be able to subpoena former Commissioner John Swofford if the suit is tried in Florida because he’s a NC resident. One more reason he says case should be in Notth Carolina. Judge Cooper says depositions can be done anywhere.

 

[baggerbob]

From Nole source...

-- Judge says this decision to not stay doesn't indicate he believes FSU will win the overall lawsuit. But he does believe the ACC was "forum shopping," and he's not going to use that as a reason to give them jurisdiction where they want it. The First to File will not sway him...he cited precedent cases regarding anticipatory filings.

-- FSU attorneys pointing out that the Grant of Rights was not ratified by the Board of Trustees because Swofford didn't want to present it to the board. Because it would be public record. Judge responds that the ACC is going to argue that FSU took the money from the conference for all these years.

-- FSU argues the judge in North Carolina made a mistake when he applied a NC statute that allowed him to determine FSU waived its sovereign immunity when it joined the ACC. That statue was enacted in 2006, while FSU joined the ACC 15 years earlier. Says they can't be held to that.

-- FSU attorneys saying that when they went to North Carolina to look at the ESPN Agreements, it states the rights to future games only apply when a school is a member. (Which goes to the Clemson lawsuit and FSU's amended lawsuit ... that once a school leaves, their rights go with them.)

-- ACC attorney says Florida courts wouldn’t be able to subpoena former Commissioner John Swofford if the suit is tried in Florida because he’s a NC resident. One more reason he says case should be in Notth Carolina. Judge Cooper says depositions can be done anywhere.

ESPN will eventually get it moved to a federal court, and overturn anything that a Florida court decides.
FSU is wasting money that they don't have.

 

[billybud]

could be moved...and getting it out of North Carolina/Florida/South Carolina could be a good thing...and the Diversity Jurisdiction issue would be the mechanism.

The strict metes and bounds of a federal court’s subject matter jurisdiction and the statutory requirements of removal under 28 U.S.C. §§ 1441 and 1446 limit a defendant’s ability to proceed in federal court once an action has been filed in state court. Courts normally defer to a plaintiff’s choice of forum and endeavor to prevent forum shopping between state and federal systems. Moreover, federal courts are courts of limited jurisdiction—unlike state courts, which have general jurisdiction—and they have an affirmative and ongoing obligation to ensure that the cases before them are based on federal question or diversity jurisdiction.

 

[buddy]

could be moved...and getting it out of North Carolina/Florida/South Carolina could be a good thing...and the Diversity Jurisdiction issue would be the mechanism.

The strict metes and bounds of a federal court’s subject matter jurisdiction and the statutory requirements of removal under 28 U.S.C. §§ 1441 and 1446 limit a defendant’s ability to proceed in federal court once an action has been filed in state court. Courts normally defer to a plaintiff’s choice of forum and endeavor to prevent forum shopping between state and federal systems. Moreover, federal courts are courts of limited jurisdiction—unlike state courts, which have general jurisdiction—and they have an affirmative and ongoing obligation to ensure that the cases before them are based on federal question or diversity jurisdiction.

They should move the trial to Connecticut! Judge Blumenthal!

 

[billybud]

May be too late....to remove to federal court...you have 30 days after service of the initial pleading..

 

[freescooter]

I’m of the opinion that this will ultimately be settled through a negotiated payment. Not sure how much but there is ultimately no benefit to haven’t a partner that doesn’t want to be there and is actively working against you. The FSU bowl game was just one example of what could happen over and over. Devalue the ACC in so many ways. Plus if Swofford and crew did screw up on process, which is easy to do when everyone is high 5ing and buddies, it could get ugly. If you want to protect the league you need to get a settlement that is at the high end of acceptable then shore up the rest with a policy of negotiating a different settlement with everyone who tries to leave.

 

[billybud]

Looks like Clemson and FSU are doing the formerly unthinkable...charging at the GOR electrified fence with a grim determination to break out of the corral. Do or die...Like I posited long ago...a situation where Butch and Sundance were backed up to the cliff edge with their only move to hold hands and jump into the river...(I like that analogy better than Thelma and Louise's going out similarly).

UNC is certainly watching to see if the corral holds, I have the feeling that maybe some other teams are having back door conversations with conferences.

The All Carolina Conference, if they lose a North Carolia school, must pay the state back the $15 million grant to move the HQ to Charlotte...unless they backfill with an ECU, Coastal Carolina.

 

[freescooter]

the interesting question is what does all this get FSU and Clemson? And UNC for that matter? Are any of them worth $62-75 million? Because that is what they need to bring to the SEC or Big10 to be worth adding. UNC might be a great school, great basketball tradition, but as a football school it is the reverse Alabama. Football is a way to keep the boys off the street until Midnight Madness. The other 2 are the 2nd teams in their respective states. Clemson has recent history, but it isn’t in the top 10 in terms of name recognition. FSU has higher name recognition but last year was the first time it was relevant in a decade. I keep hearing from my UM contact that it is the ‘Canes who are Team 3 in all of this. They are eyeing the Big 10. Entre into SEC territory, AAU member could be sold as an ”academic” addition too. There problem is it has been years since they’ve won anything.

On the $15 million owed to the State of NC, minor issue that will be worked out. Especially if it is a state entity to leave against the wishes of the ACC. And the conference agrees to keep its hq there. Maybe there is a pro-rata share paid back. Ive made these deals as a city and state economic development official. They are ALWAYS worked out.

 

[billybud]

FSU has only had five double digit win seasons in the last ten...yeah, it was a down decade for FSU.

But still, more 10 win seasons in the last 10 than Florida, LSU, Tennessee, Auburn, Texas A&M, Texas,,,,

 

[Chin Diesel]

FSU has only had five double digit win seasons in the last ten...yeah, it was a down decade for FSU.

But still, more 10 win seasons in the last 10 than Florida, LSU, Tennessee, Auburn, Texas A&M, Texas,,,,

The dilemma for FSU, as was clearly spelled out for them this past season, 10 wins at FSU equals 8 wins at the SEC schools for relevance. Being 2 wins clear of an SEC school wasn't enough. I believe FSU got screwed this year and loved them soft boycotting the Orange Bowl, and put no relevance in the score of that game, but it was clear to FSU how people outside the FSU prism view FSU and the ACC.

 

[billybud]

While reading the twitters about the ACC vs FSU-Clemson ruckus, I instruct Alexa.."Play One Man's Ceiling by Billy Joel". Puts me in the right frame of mind. A conference is in allegory..an apartment house.

… There's been some hard feelings here
About some words that were said
Been some hard feelings here
There's been a bloody purple nose
And some bloody purple clothes
That were messing up the lobby floor
It's just apartment house rules
So all you 'partment house fools
Remember: one man's ceiling
Is another man's floor

The dilemma for FSU, as was clearly spelled out for them this past season, 10 wins at FSU equals 8 wins at the SEC schools for relevance. Being 2 wins clear of an SEC school wasn't enough. I believe FSU got screwed this year and loved them soft boycotting the Orange Bowl, and put no relevance in the score of that game, but it was clear to FSU how people outside the FSU prism view FSU and the ACC.

and Chin..it was always a put up job by ESPN and P2...as soon as Bama lost their game...A Final Four without the SEC? Bama in Saban's last game ?

And Boo Corrigan, UNC AD, who Chaired the CFP Selection Committee...well..his brother is Production Manager at ESPN...Having the UNC AD Chair the Selection Committee ripped it for FSU...bye, we'll find the door.

 

[freescooter]

FSU has only had five double digit win seasons in the last ten...yeah, it was a down decade for FSU.

But still, more 10 win seasons in the last 10 than Florida, LSU, Tennessee, Auburn, Texas A&M, Texas,,,,

And it has gotten them 2 ACC championships and 1 playoff spot, in 2014. And they are supposedly the cream of the ACC? They haven’t even won their division. Good record, sure. But do they bring $62 million. I doubt it. This is much more about reputation than record. I think the question is does FSU become a player with the likes of LSU, Georgia and Alabama or are they Miss State or actually Florida or South Carolina? If the former, it is worth it. If the latter, then it ain’t. Put another way, people will watch Texas and Alabama even if they are both having eh years. Will people watch Florida State and Clemson under those conditions? I’m skeptical and I think some SEC folks are too.

 

[billybud]

FSU did win the NC in 2013...defeating the SEC Champ in the Final.

9 million watched FSU clobber 10 win LSU by 20 last year...FSU beat LSU back to back seasons, Florida back to back as well.

FSU-Florida drew 6.71 million and outdrew all games Thanksgiving weekend except Ohio State-Michigan...

Heck...FSU vs Wake Forest still drew 2.09 million.

FSU is a brand still.

 

[freescooter]

I agree it’s a brand, but is it a big enough brand to get $60 million or is it a $30 million brand? 2013 is a long time ago. And ratings for games against LSU are a little deceiving. It’s kind of like using the ratings for UConn-DePaul basketball to say DePaul drew 300,000 viewers. It’s true but only because they were the Other team. Substitute anybody else and the results would be similar.

 

[billybud]

CFB Week 10 Overnights: Miami/FSU Top Draw By Wide Margin

The game was not close, but the most meaningful Miami/Florida State game in years earned strong numbers on ABC. The Miami/Florida State "Saturday Night

www.sportsmediawatch.com

 

[billybud]

FSU-LSU outdrew LSU-Alabama last season...

In fact FSU was the 7th most watched football team in 2023...

 

[Rufus]

FSU will join the B1G. They will be the crown jewel of the south for the B1G. Ohio State/FSU, Michigan/FSU, Penn State/FSU, Oregon/FSU, Washington/FSU, USC/FSU, Wisconsin/FSU. Nebraska/FSU. Those are going to be highly rated games.

I'm going to stick with what Fluguar is saying ---- Florida State and Miami to the B1G. North Carolina and Clemson to the SEC. If the SEC goes to 20, then NC State and Virginia go with them.

 

[billybud]

And...why the ACC/ESPN fears a Florida court....precedent...and who ordered the documents be delivered ? Judge Cooper now presiding over FSU V ACC in Tallahassee.

Florida court orders NCAA to hand over records

A Florida appeals court upheld Florida’s open meetings law today and ordered the National Collegiate Athletic Association to hand over documents related to secret disciplinary proceedings against Florida State University.

www.rcfp.org

 

[dayooper]

FSU will join the B1G. They will be the crown jewel of the south for the B1G. Ohio State/FSU, Michigan/FSU, Penn State/FSU, Oregon/FSU, Washington/FSU, USC/FSU, Wisconsin/FSU. Nebraska/FSU. Those are going to be highly rated games.

I'm going to stick with what Fluguar is saying ---- Florida State and Miami to the B1G. North Carolina and Clemson to the SEC. If the SEC goes to 20, then NC State and Virginia go with them.

Not only is it good ratings, but FSU puts the Big10 schools brands front and center in Florida’s population. Recruiting general student population is huge for the Big10 schools. The marketing alone will be huge. Throw in all of the current Big10 alumni that live down there and now you’ve got games for them to donate to their university.

As far as Miami, I agree that is the probable school. It’s not my preference, but that’s who I think it will be.

 

[Kolumbo]

FSU will join the B1G. They will be the crown jewel of the south for the B1G. Ohio State/FSU, Michigan/FSU, Penn State/FSU, Oregon/FSU, Washington/FSU, USC/FSU, Wisconsin/FSU. Nebraska/FSU. Those are going to be highly rated games.

I'm going to stick with what Fluguar is saying ---- Florida State and Miami to the B1G. North Carolina and Clemson to the SEC. If the SEC goes to 20, then NC State and Virginia go with them.

It would be strange seeing FSU go B1G and UNC go SEC. SEC moves are all about football. Ohio State to the SEC!

 

[billybud]

FSU does play Bama, Texas A&M, and Florida in 2025.

 

[CL82]

FSU will join the B1G. They will be the crown jewel of the south for the B1G. Ohio State/FSU, Michigan/FSU, Penn State/FSU, Oregon/FSU, Washington/FSU, USC/FSU, Wisconsin/FSU. Nebraska/FSU. Those are going to be highly rated games.

I'm going to stick with what Fluguar is saying ---- Florida State and Miami to the B1G. North Carolina and Clemson to the SEC. If the SEC goes to 20, then NC State and Virginia go with them.

I thought the Flug was saying ESPN was going to facilitate FSU to SEC by eliminating any GOR issues for a transfer to a product it owns?

 

[jostar1]

I thought the Flug was saying ESPN was going to facilitate FSU to SEC by eliminating any GOR issues for a transfer to a product it owns?

That was C.W. Lambert@InsideTheBig12

 

[CL82]

That was C.W. Lambert@InsideTheBig12

Ah, tough to keep the Internet conference real alignment positions straight.

 

[dayooper]

That was C.W. Lambert@InsideTheBig12

Otherwise known as The Dude of West Virginia, the scourge of CR Twitter back in the day. He’s the original CR Twidiot. Funny story, the first place Flugar was featured on Lamberts Twitter where he was Big10 Man. They had a falling out and now don’t like each other.