OT: Florida State to sue ACC over GOR

[FfldCntyFan]

I would phrase it more along the lines of they knew other conferences would have one, two or even three new contracts during the duration of the ACC deal and history heavily suggested each of those contracts would make the ACC contract less and less competitive with peers.

So, technically, "know" is correct, but it also adds no context or represent reality.

They misread the landscape, it happens. I imagine none of the key parties anticapted anything close to the contracts that other power conferences ended up receiving and I would wager they (incorrecetly) felt that the longer term was beneficial to them as once the B-12 & P-12 started coming up for renewals, nobody would offer them close to what the ACC was already guaranteed. Not long before this happened there was quite a bit of turmoil and confusion with the B-12 and P-12 and nobody was clear on what the future of either conference would be. For all we know, FSU wanted other ACC members locked in for the long term as they felt it was greatly to their benefit.

I personally do not know what anyone was thinking when this was going down but I do know that no one school had a gun held to their head to sign (although I imagine Wake, BC and perhaps a couple others not only jumped at the opportunity, but also waited impatiently for everyone else to sign). The ability to read the landscape is very important. Luck can also play a small role. Just over the past quarter century we've seen the internet bubble burst, the Enron/Worldcom collapse, the housing bubble, Covid shutdown and now significant inflation. It is quite possible that the expectation when the GOR was signed was that a longer term contract was better for a conference than a shorter term deal. If a handful of thingd shoook out differently, they could have been correct.

 

[billybud]

North Carolina knows...and is not silent.

"I think that what Clemson is doing is 100 percent proof positive that a significant portion of the membership of the conference is unhappy,” UNC Board of Trustees chair John Preyer told Inside Carolina on Wednesday. “I don't see how it is in anyone's interest for the ACC leadership to try and browbeat its member schools from getting access to information and being transparent. And that's kind of the case Clemson is making.

"I think this shows that what is supposed to be a member-based organization is not being led in a way that represents the best interests of all the members, but instead, it's really representing the bottom tier of the membership at the expense of the top tier, which is why Clemson and Florida State are doing what they're doing. I think that's just obvious."

 

[The Viking]

Boston College loathed in a southeastern conference. Who would have guessed.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

North Carolina knows...and is not silent.

"I think that what Clemson is doing is 100 percent proof positive that a significant portion of the membership of the conference is unhappy,” UNC Board of Trustees chair John Preyer told Inside Carolina on Wednesday. “I don't see how it is in anyone's interest for the ACC leadership to try and browbeat its member schools from getting access to information and being transparent. And that's kind of the case Clemson is making.

"I think this shows that what is supposed to be a member-based organization is not being led in a way that represents the best interests of all the members, but instead, it's really representing the bottom tier of the membership at the expense of the top tier, which is why Clemson and Florida State are doing what they're doing. I think that's just obvious."

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the conference basically a collective of all members?

If the members are so opposed to this, they should just call a meeting to instruct the commissioner to follow their wishes.

 

[UConnJim]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the conference basically a collective of all members?

If the members are so opposed to this, they should just call a meeting to instruct the commissioner to follow their wishes.

The commissioner is doing what the majority of the members want, but not what the top conference schools want which is exactly what the UNC Board Chair said.

There are 4 ACC schools (plus Notre Dame) that would be of interest to the P2: UNC, UVa, FSU, and Clemson. The only private school or non-state flagship university that has ever been invited to the P2 is USC a blue blood football program. I would ask ESPN if they would cut the media payout per school if they left and if they would keep it flat, let the 4 schools go and rebuild the ACC like the Big 12 is doing. Then you have the P2, the next 2 of ACC and Big 12, and then the G5.

 

[billybud]

A small but interesting fact that has come out is that the State of North Carolina provided $15 million to the ACC…with the claw back provision that the conference had to pay it back if four NC schools were not maintained in the conference.

 

[dayooper]

ACC lawyer says Florida had 3 Power 5 schools: Florida, FSU and UCF, forgets to say Miami.

ACC lawyer makes big blunder in FSU court hearing that will anger Miami

.

www.on3.com

Poor Sebastian, says they are committed to the ACC and the ACC forgets them in a court of law. Doesn’t mean anything and is a honest mistake, but it’s not a good look.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

A small but interesting fact that has come out is that the State of North Carolina provided $15 million to the ACC…with the claw back provision that the conference had to pay it back if four NC schools were not maintained in the conference.

Quite a bit of context is needed here in order to determine if that means anything.

 

[BlueHen]

ACC lawyer says Florida had 3 Power 5 schools: Florida, FSU and UCF, forgets to say Miami.

ACC lawyer makes big blunder in FSU court hearing that will anger Miami

.

www.on3.com

Poor Sebastian, says they are committed to the ACC and the ACC forgets them in a court of law. Doesn’t mean anything and is a honest mistake, but it’s not a good look.

He probably thought Miami is in Ohio.

 

[Patman]

I am mostly in support of Florida St. here. With the bizarre agreement that virtually no one knew that ESPN could opt out in 2027, I can’t see what insane legal gymnastics would not allow Florida St., Clemson, North Carolina, or whomever to get out by then for the exit fee of about $120 million.

But I am still trying to wrap my head around why Florida St. would even think of signing the GOR extension to 2036?!? when they they apparently did not know all of the terms? Why???

Why does thus matter. The rights got assigned to the GOR. They could sign with HBO for all that matters

 

[Ldandy]

Boston College loathed in a southeastern conference. Who would have guessed.

In fairness to the southeast, I’m a Penn State Fan from the northeast and if complete joke programs like BC, Pitt, and Cuse controlled my school’s earning potential I’d be beside myself the same as FSU and Clemson.

 

[billybud]

He probably thought Miami is in Ohio.

LOL… a dig at FSU’s most hated rival. The Canes not a P5 school has caused such glee in Noledom.

 

[The Yakk]

In fairness to the southeast, I’m a Penn State Fan from the northeast and if complete joke programs like BC, Pitt, and Cuse controlled my school’s earning potential I’d be beside myself the same as FSU and Clemson.

FSU and Clemson voted all those schools in, then happily signed a GOR that promised to pay them hundreds of millions. Then happily cashed all those checks.

Of course, no one should be surprised they are unhappy now. There is no loyalty in big money sports, and they—like every other school—should be looking out for themselves.

But none of that is legal grounds for dissolving the GOR. It sure does get their fans riled up, though—all these supposed loopholes.

I continue to predict FSU’s negotiated buyout will be 250 million plus the conference exit fee. But that number goes up the more they keep losing in court.

At that number it is still worth it to jump, but some of that benefit flows to their abandoned conference “partners”—who will collect a windfall, but offset by a reduced media payment from ESPN—who is losing one of their best schools, but gets to save some money.

Everyone feels a little pain and no one is 100% happy with the outcome. That’s how settlements work.

 

[billybud]

What may or may not be interesting is the FSU-ACC suit kicking off Tuesday in Tallahassee. A case in North Carolina with a UNC grad elected by North Carolinians and a case in Florida with an FSU grad elected by Floridians. The North Carolina judge made an important decision for FSU ruling with prejudice that FSU has no fiduciary duty to the ACC. The venue argument in NC went as predicted. Too early to tell what parts of ESPN contract that the court will seal. Less than FSU wants but more info than the ACC wants is my thought.

 

[Waquoit]

They misread the landscape, it happens.

Judge Judy would say no take-backs.

 

[Patman]

In the end this is just fsu being unhappy with what they signed and looking for ways to get out. If they continued with their intent at signing they wouldn't be doing any of this

 

[huskymedic]

 

[dayooper]

Um. . . Depends on what $130Mish means but that’s a low number compared to what’s been thrown out previously. Still pretty high, but most definitely not a road block like the $300M to $500M that was thrown around.

 

[Kolumbo]

That's really interesting. I wonder of that means technically, FSU would pay an exit fee and not anything else. Then going forward, the ACC continues to take the media revenue which is coming from the networks and not from FSU.

 

[CL82]

Um. . . Depends on what $130Mish means but that’s a low number compared to what’s been thrown out previously. Still pretty high, but most definitely not a road block like the $300M to $500M that was thrown around.

Yep, but keep in mind that is with the ACC retaining FSU broadcast rights. What media partner is going to underwrite their move to another conference if they don't have the right to broadcast their home games?

 

[Ldandy]

FSU and Clemson voted all those schools in, then happily signed a GOR that promised to pay them hundreds of millions. Then happily cashed all those checks.

Of course, no one should be surprised they are unhappy now. There is no loyalty in big money sports, and they—like every other school—should be looking out for themselves.

But none of that is legal grounds for dissolving the GOR. It sure does get their fans riled up, though—all these supposed loopholes.

I continue to predict FSU’s negotiated buyout will be 250 million plus the conference exit fee. But that number goes up the more they keep losing in court.

At that number it is still worth it to jump, but some of that benefit flows to their abandoned conference “partners”—who will collect a windfall, but offset by a reduced media payment from ESPN—who is losing one of their best schools, but gets to save some money.

Everyone feels a little pain and no one is 100% happy with the outcome. That’s how settlements work.

You're not wrong. They signed the deal, so it's fair to say that they should live with the consequences. It's up to the courts now to determine if there was any misrepresentation in what was presented to them vs what they eventually signed.

On one hand it makes sense for ESPN to keep things status quo. They control several profitable entities under long-term below market value contracts. On the other hand, it could benefit them more to guarantee that the most valuable entities of The ACC end up in their flagship conference by negotiating earlier.

They could also use this realignment period to get a jumpstart on shoring up The ACC's next membership. They might be able to position the new ACC as a basketball first conference along with regional football appeal. Essentially, birth a new, new Big East after killing the exact thing decades earlier.

 

[UConn Dan]

Can someone summarize? Why was today ugly for ACC?

 

[billybud]

Uhhh Tony...A judge in North Carolina elected by North Carolinians,who is a UNC old boy, is not "home cooking" ?

The All Carolina Conference has a lot to lose in North Carolina....Four schools, ACC office, championship tournaments.

Now...Tony...there are those who think that you are an ACC shill and part of the home cooking Carolina style.

 

[billybud]

FSU has issued this statement -- “FSU is pleased with Judge Cooper’s ruling today denying the ACC’s motion to postpone our lawsuit over the mishandling of media rights. We agree with his conclusions that the ACC’s North Carolina action was an anticipatory filing disfavored by courts, and that the sovereignty of the State of Florida supports the resolution of these matters in Florida.

 

[billybud]

From Nole source...

-- Judge says this decision to not stay doesn't indicate he believes FSU will win the overall lawsuit. But he does believe the ACC was "forum shopping," and he's not going to use that as a reason to give them jurisdiction where they want it. The First to File will not sway him...he cited precedent cases regarding anticipatory filings.

-- FSU attorneys pointing out that the Grant of Rights was not ratified by the Board of Trustees because Swofford didn't want to present it to the board. Because it would be public record. Judge responds that the ACC is going to argue that FSU took the money from the conference for all these years.

-- FSU argues the judge in North Carolina made a mistake when he applied a NC statute that allowed him to determine FSU waived its sovereign immunity when it joined the ACC. That statue was enacted in 2006, while FSU joined the ACC 15 years earlier. Says they can't be held to that.

-- FSU attorneys saying that when they went to North Carolina to look at the ESPN Agreements, it states the rights to future games only apply when a school is a member. (Which goes to the Clemson lawsuit and FSU's amended lawsuit ... that once a school leaves, their rights go with them.)

-- ACC attorney says Florida courts wouldn’t be able to subpoena former Commissioner John Swofford if the suit is tried in Florida because he’s a NC resident. One more reason he says case should be in Notth Carolina. Judge Cooper says depositions can be done anywhere.