OT: - Florida State to sue ACC over GOR | Page 27 | The Boneyard

OT: Florida State to sue ACC over GOR

A small but interesting fact that has come out is that the State of North Carolina provided $15 million to the ACC…with the claw back provision that the conference had to pay it back if four NC schools were not maintained in the conference.
 
billybud said:
A small but interesting fact that has come out is that the State of North Carolina provided $15 million to the ACC…with the claw back provision that the conference had to pay it back if four NC schools were not maintained in the conference.
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Quite a bit of context is needed here in order to determine if that means anything.
 
Pat125 said:
I am mostly in support of Florida St. here. With the bizarre agreement that virtually no one knew that ESPN could opt out in 2027, I can’t see what insane legal gymnastics would not allow Florida St., Clemson, North Carolina, or whomever to get out by then for the exit fee of about $120 million.

But I am still trying to wrap my head around why Florida St. would even think of signing the GOR extension to 2036?!? when they they apparently did not know all of the terms? Why???
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Why does thus matter. The rights got assigned to the GOR. They could sign with HBO for all that matters
 
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Ldandy said:
In fairness to the southeast, I’m a Penn State Fan from the northeast and if complete joke programs like BC, Pitt, and Cuse controlled my school’s earning potential I’d be beside myself the same as FSU and Clemson.
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FSU and Clemson voted all those schools in, then happily signed a GOR that promised to pay them hundreds of millions. Then happily cashed all those checks.

Of course, no one should be surprised they are unhappy now. There is no loyalty in big money sports, and they—like every other school—should be looking out for themselves.

But none of that is legal grounds for dissolving the GOR. It sure does get their fans riled up, though—all these supposed loopholes.

I continue to predict FSU’s negotiated buyout will be 250 million plus the conference exit fee. But that number goes up the more they keep losing in court.

At that number it is still worth it to jump, but some of that benefit flows to their abandoned conference “partners”—who will collect a windfall, but offset by a reduced media payment from ESPN—who is losing one of their best schools, but gets to save some money.

Everyone feels a little pain and no one is 100% happy with the outcome. That’s how settlements work.
 
What may or may not be interesting is the FSU-ACC suit kicking off Tuesday in Tallahassee. A case in North Carolina with a UNC grad elected by North Carolinians and a case in Florida with an FSU grad elected by Floridians. The North Carolina judge made an important decision for FSU ruling with prejudice that FSU has no fiduciary duty to the ACC. The venue argument in NC went as predicted. Too early to tell what parts of ESPN contract that the court will seal. Less than FSU wants but more info than the ACC wants is my thought.
 
In the end this is just fsu being unhappy with what they signed and looking for ways to get out. If they continued with their intent at signing they wouldn't be doing any of this
 
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huskymedic said:
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Um. . . Depends on what $130Mish means but that’s a low number compared to what’s been thrown out previously. Still pretty high, but most definitely not a road block like the $300M to $500M that was thrown around.
 
huskymedic said:
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That's really interesting. I wonder of that means technically, FSU would pay an exit fee and not anything else. Then going forward, the ACC continues to take the media revenue which is coming from the networks and not from FSU.
 
dayooper said:
Um. . . Depends on what $130Mish means but that’s a low number compared to what’s been thrown out previously. Still pretty high, but most definitely not a road block like the $300M to $500M that was thrown around.
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Yep, but keep in mind that is with the ACC retaining FSU broadcast rights. What media partner is going to underwrite their move to another conference if they don't have the right to broadcast their home games?
 
The Yakk said:
FSU and Clemson voted all those schools in, then happily signed a GOR that promised to pay them hundreds of millions. Then happily cashed all those checks.

Of course, no one should be surprised they are unhappy now. There is no loyalty in big money sports, and they—like every other school—should be looking out for themselves.

But none of that is legal grounds for dissolving the GOR. It sure does get their fans riled up, though—all these supposed loopholes.

I continue to predict FSU’s negotiated buyout will be 250 million plus the conference exit fee. But that number goes up the more they keep losing in court.

At that number it is still worth it to jump, but some of that benefit flows to their abandoned conference “partners”—who will collect a windfall, but offset by a reduced media payment from ESPN—who is losing one of their best schools, but gets to save some money.

Everyone feels a little pain and no one is 100% happy with the outcome. That’s how settlements work.
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You're not wrong. They signed the deal, so it's fair to say that they should live with the consequences. It's up to the courts now to determine if there was any misrepresentation in what was presented to them vs what they eventually signed.

On one hand it makes sense for ESPN to keep things status quo. They control several profitable entities under long-term below market value contracts. On the other hand, it could benefit them more to guarantee that the most valuable entities of The ACC end up in their flagship conference by negotiating earlier.

They could also use this realignment period to get a jumpstart on shoring up The ACC's next membership. They might be able to position the new ACC as a basketball first conference along with regional football appeal. Essentially, birth a new, new Big East after killing the exact thing decades earlier.
 
Uhhh Tony...A judge in North Carolina elected by North Carolinians,who is a UNC old boy, is not "home cooking" ?

The All Carolina Conference has a lot to lose in North Carolina....Four schools, ACC office, championship tournaments.

Now...Tony...there are those who think that you are an ACC shill and part of the home cooking Carolina style.
 
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FSU has issued this statement -- “FSU is pleased with Judge Cooper’s ruling today denying the ACC’s motion to postpone our lawsuit over the mishandling of media rights. We agree with his conclusions that the ACC’s North Carolina action was an anticipatory filing disfavored by courts, and that the sovereignty of the State of Florida supports the resolution of these matters in Florida.
 
From Nole source...

-- Judge says this decision to not stay doesn't indicate he believes FSU will win the overall lawsuit. But he does believe the ACC was "forum shopping," and he's not going to use that as a reason to give them jurisdiction where they want it. The First to File will not sway him...he cited precedent cases regarding anticipatory filings.

-- FSU attorneys pointing out that the Grant of Rights was not ratified by the Board of Trustees because Swofford didn't want to present it to the board. Because it would be public record. Judge responds that the ACC is going to argue that FSU took the money from the conference for all these years.

-- FSU argues the judge in North Carolina made a mistake when he applied a NC statute that allowed him to determine FSU waived its sovereign immunity when it joined the ACC. That statue was enacted in 2006, while FSU joined the ACC 15 years earlier. Says they can't be held to that.

-- FSU attorneys saying that when they went to North Carolina to look at the ESPN Agreements, it states the rights to future games only apply when a school is a member. (Which goes to the Clemson lawsuit and FSU's amended lawsuit ... that once a school leaves, their rights go with them.)

-- ACC attorney says Florida courts wouldn’t be able to subpoena former Commissioner John Swofford if the suit is tried in Florida because he’s a NC resident. One more reason he says case should be in Notth Carolina. Judge Cooper says depositions can be done anywhere.
 
billybud said:
From Nole source...

-- Judge says this decision to not stay doesn't indicate he believes FSU will win the overall lawsuit. But he does believe the ACC was "forum shopping," and he's not going to use that as a reason to give them jurisdiction where they want it. The First to File will not sway him...he cited precedent cases regarding anticipatory filings.

-- FSU attorneys pointing out that the Grant of Rights was not ratified by the Board of Trustees because Swofford didn't want to present it to the board. Because it would be public record. Judge responds that the ACC is going to argue that FSU took the money from the conference for all these years.

-- FSU argues the judge in North Carolina made a mistake when he applied a NC statute that allowed him to determine FSU waived its sovereign immunity when it joined the ACC. That statue was enacted in 2006, while FSU joined the ACC 15 years earlier. Says they can't be held to that.

-- FSU attorneys saying that when they went to North Carolina to look at the ESPN Agreements, it states the rights to future games only apply when a school is a member. (Which goes to the Clemson lawsuit and FSU's amended lawsuit ... that once a school leaves, their rights go with them.)

-- ACC attorney says Florida courts wouldn’t be able to subpoena former Commissioner John Swofford if the suit is tried in Florida because he’s a NC resident. One more reason he says case should be in Notth Carolina. Judge Cooper says depositions can be done anywhere.
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ESPN will eventually get it moved to a federal court, and overturn anything that a Florida court decides.
FSU is wasting money that they don't have.
 
could be moved...and getting it out of North Carolina/Florida/South Carolina could be a good thing...and the Diversity Jurisdiction issue would be the mechanism.

The strict metes and bounds of a federal court’s subject matter jurisdiction and the statutory requirements of removal under 28 U.S.C. §§ 1441 and 1446 limit a defendant’s ability to proceed in federal court once an action has been filed in state court. Courts normally defer to a plaintiff’s choice of forum and endeavor to prevent forum shopping between state and federal systems. Moreover, federal courts are courts of limited jurisdiction—unlike state courts, which have general jurisdiction—and they have an affirmative and ongoing obligation to ensure that the cases before them are based on federal question or diversity jurisdiction.
 
May be too late....to remove to federal court...you have 30 days after service of the initial pleading..
 
I’m of the opinion that this will ultimately be settled through a negotiated payment. Not sure how much but there is ultimately no benefit to haven’t a partner that doesn’t want to be there and is actively working against you. The FSU bowl game was just one example of what could happen over and over. Devalue the ACC in so many ways. Plus if Swofford and crew did screw up on process, which is easy to do when everyone is high 5ing and buddies, it could get ugly. If you want to protect the league you need to get a settlement that is at the high end of acceptable then shore up the rest with a policy of negotiating a different settlement with everyone who tries to leave.
 
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Looks like Clemson and FSU are doing the formerly unthinkable...charging at the GOR electrified fence with a grim determination to break out of the corral. Do or die...Like I posited long ago...a situation where Butch and Sundance were backed up to the cliff edge with their only move to hold hands and jump into the river...(I like that analogy better than Thelma and Louise's going out similarly).

UNC is certainly watching to see if the corral holds, I have the feeling that maybe some other teams are having back door conversations with conferences.

The All Carolina Conference, if they lose a North Carolia school, must pay the state back the $15 million grant to move the HQ to Charlotte...unless they backfill with an ECU, Coastal Carolina.
 
the interesting question is what does all this get FSU and Clemson? And UNC for that matter? Are any of them worth $62-75 million? Because that is what they need to bring to the SEC or Big10 to be worth adding. UNC might be a great school, great basketball tradition, but as a football school it is the reverse Alabama. Football is a way to keep the boys off the street until Midnight Madness. The other 2 are the 2nd teams in their respective states. Clemson has recent history, but it isn’t in the top 10 in terms of name recognition. FSU has higher name recognition but last year was the first time it was relevant in a decade. I keep hearing from my UM contact that it is the ‘Canes who are Team 3 in all of this. They are eyeing the Big 10. Entre into SEC territory, AAU member could be sold as an ”academic” addition too. There problem is it has been years since they’ve won anything.

On the $15 million owed to the State of NC, minor issue that will be worked out. Especially if it is a state entity to leave against the wishes of the ACC. And the conference agrees to keep its hq there. Maybe there is a pro-rata share paid back. Ive made these deals as a city and state economic development official. They are ALWAYS worked out.
 
FSU has only had five double digit win seasons in the last ten...yeah, it was a down decade for FSU.

But still, more 10 win seasons in the last 10 than Florida, LSU, Tennessee, Auburn, Texas A&M, Texas,,,,
 
billybud said:
FSU has only had five double digit win seasons in the last ten...yeah, it was a down decade for FSU.

But still, more 10 win seasons in the last 10 than Florida, LSU, Tennessee, Auburn, Texas A&M, Texas,,,,
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The dilemma for FSU, as was clearly spelled out for them this past season, 10 wins at FSU equals 8 wins at the SEC schools for relevance. Being 2 wins clear of an SEC school wasn't enough. I believe FSU got screwed this year and loved them soft boycotting the Orange Bowl, and put no relevance in the score of that game, but it was clear to FSU how people outside the FSU prism view FSU and the ACC.
 
While reading the twitters about the ACC vs FSU-Clemson ruckus, I instruct Alexa.."Play One Man's Ceiling by Billy Joel". Puts me in the right frame of mind. A conference is in allegory..an apartment house.

… There's been some hard feelings here
About some words that were said
Been some hard feelings here
There's been a bloody purple nose
And some bloody purple clothes
That were messing up the lobby floor
It's just apartment house rules
So all you 'partment house fools
Remember: one man's ceiling
Is another man's floor


Chin Diesel said:
The dilemma for FSU, as was clearly spelled out for them this past season, 10 wins at FSU equals 8 wins at the SEC schools for relevance. Being 2 wins clear of an SEC school wasn't enough. I believe FSU got screwed this year and loved them soft boycotting the Orange Bowl, and put no relevance in the score of that game, but it was clear to FSU how people outside the FSU prism view FSU and the ACC.
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and Chin..it was always a put up job by ESPN and P2...as soon as Bama lost their game...A Final Four without the SEC? Bama in Saban's last game ?

And Boo Corrigan, UNC AD, who Chaired the CFP Selection Committee...well..his brother is Production Manager at ESPN...Having the UNC AD Chair the Selection Committee ripped it for FSU...bye, we'll find the door.
 
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billybud said:
FSU has only had five double digit win seasons in the last ten...yeah, it was a down decade for FSU.

But still, more 10 win seasons in the last 10 than Florida, LSU, Tennessee, Auburn, Texas A&M, Texas,,,,
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And it has gotten them 2 ACC championships and 1 playoff spot, in 2014. And they are supposedly the cream of the ACC? They haven’t even won their division. Good record, sure. But do they bring $62 million. I doubt it. This is much more about reputation than record. I think the question is does FSU become a player with the likes of LSU, Georgia and Alabama or are they Miss State or actually Florida or South Carolina? If the former, it is worth it. If the latter, then it ain’t. Put another way, people will watch Texas and Alabama even if they are both having eh years. Will people watch Florida State and Clemson under those conditions? I’m skeptical and I think some SEC folks are too.
 
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