Evina Waived. Burke and Harrigan as well

[UcMiami]

I get your argument here, and if those were the only factors, I wouldn't hesitate at all. But I wonder if there haven't been historical factors that have suppressed interest in women's sports. I mean TV coverage has lagged behind existing interest, and not just in terms of what gets broadcast, but how and when. I can't say it enough how many games in the women's tournament had almost no replays available during games. Not enough cameras or crews. At times, it felt like community TV coverage of HS games.

We all know there is substantial interest in WCBB, because we're all crazy about it. And many of us (mainly speaking for myself) find the men's game a bore. I would turn off the Men's NCAA tournament games if I could switch to a Women's game. This doesn't mean the audience is larger. It only means that there's an audience that could be grown if there was greater and higher quality availability on TV. You may be right that the WNBA shares the vices of the NBA. I only watch NBA games to keep company with friends who like it. But it's true that I don't watch many WNBA games either.

So, yes, equity is hard to argue just looking at the current market. But invest in the Women's market and it would soon become a rival to the Men's. This is also a kind of inequity, but not one solved by a new CBA.

The simple example is that a PBS station in CT took a gamble on WCBB and started broadcasting all Uconn WCBB games ... it became a huge money earner for that non-commercial station and people around the country took notice. Within about 10 years, that station lost a bidding war with a commercial station for those broadcast rights, and other commercial stations started broadcasting a lot of WCBB games when almost no games were being broadcast back in 1995.

All of us fans of WCBB anywhere in the country and with any team owe a debt to CPTV for making that initial commitment and showing it was a commercially viable product. Now we just need to see if we can push it beyond the college game.

(Historical note: pro men's leagues struggled to grow while the men's college game was a bigger attraction. College Football and college basketball were huge while their pro relatives were still barnstorming and their pro athletes were working other jobs in the off seasons. MLB I think was the one pro league that predated serious college interest which is why their farm system was so important to them and remains the primary feeder to the big leagues.)

 

[CTBballfan243]

Both my daughters played basketball growing up, in high school, and one played D3 in college. They watch UConn women and mens basketball but have zero interest in the wnba. They love and watch the NFL, and the NHL. Occasionally they’ll go to watch an MLB baseball game.

 

[Zinethar]

Sure, charter flights would be nice. I'm sure the G League would also prefer them since they make travel much more comfortable/efficient. But they are very expensive and not all team owners can afford them. Who would be expected to pay for these? This is one of those examples where just maybe the players should have been thinking about this during CBA negotiations instead of how to get more money in their pockets.

You are far more negative toward the WNBA than I am but I don't disagree with many of your points. I do have a different take on some of them. The statement that "not all team owners can afford them" if true certainly makes my point that one of the biggest issues is who the owners are. The WNBA needs to have better, more powerful, and richer owners. These people and corporations exist and the WNBA needs to be far better at marketing their product to those types of people.. There are reasons other than reaping financial rewards to entice buy in. Find them. Market them. The secret is good ownership. CBS bought the Yankees years ago and severely damaged the product. Along came George. Problem solved. He turned it into a money printing machine because he knew how to do that. This is what the WNBA needs. People with a vision and the resources to make it work. As much as I hate to admit it people like and buy into what the marketing geniuses make them believe.

As for the CBA they got what they wanted. Be careful what you want.

 

[UHF]

You don’t get big money from people in the stands - it comes from TV contracts. WCBB really took off once all these conferences started showing ALL the games - SEC Network, ACC Network, etc. I haven’t missed a SC game on either TV or ESPN + in about 8 years. The more it’s shown, the more people get to know the players, the more they go to games. It’s coming soon, but they haven’t gotten there quite yet.

TV coverage of WNBA Finals has been ahead of the curve for NBA Finals, with respect to the number of years after the WNBA and NBA were born.

It took 24 years before the entire NBA Finals were broadcast on national TV. How soon after the WNBA was born were the WNBA Finals broadcast on national TV?

2021 article "NBA Finals on the networks: A storied and often colorful history through the lens of television."

NBA Finals on the networks: A storied and often colorful history through the lens of television - Sports Broadcast Journal

 

[sun]

As much as I admire Evina, she wasn't even starting for UConn as the season wore on.
Considering that it's no wonder why she got waived.
If she were more of a consistent sharpshooter, then she would have had a better chance of making the cut.
She'll be better off if she can develop her talent in a foreign league and then try to hook up with a WNBA team in the future.
Even Doug Flutie had to play in Canada to make a name for himself and become successful.
And MLB is also very highly dependent on importing talent from foreign countries with 28.3% of 2021 opening day rosters composed of players born in foreign countries.
Considering that the US imports so many MLB players, then maybe exporting our women BB players makes up for it.

 

[UHF]

. . . The WNBA needs to have better, more powerful, and richer owners. These people and corporations exist and the WNBA needs to be far better at marketing their product to those types of people.. There are reasons other than reaping financial rewards to entice buy in. Find them. Market them. The secret is good ownership. CBS bought the Yankees years ago and severely damaged the product. Along came George. Problem solved. He turned it into a money printing machine because he knew how to do that. This is what the WNBA needs. People with a vision and the resources to make it work. . . . .

"Richest Women in America in One Graphic" article from 2021.

The Richest Women in America in One Graphic

WNBA executives and players might ask themselves, "why are these wealthy and powerful women not investing in the WNBA?"

 

[Bone Dog]

TV coverage of WNBA Finals has been ahead of the curve for NBA Finals, with respect to the number of years after the WNBA and NBA were born.

It took 24 years before the entire NBA Finals were broadcast on national TV. How soon after the WNBA was born were the WNBA Finals broadcast on national TV?

It's true... enough. But these aren't really the same curves. It's like comparing apples and parabolas.

 

[amb3096]

You are far more negative toward the WNBA than I am but I don't disagree with many of your points. I do have a different take on some of them. The statement that "not all team owners can afford them" if true certainly makes my point that one of the biggest issues is who the owners are. The WNBA needs to have better, more powerful, and richer owners. These people and corporations exist and the WNBA needs to be far better at marketing their product to those types of people.. There are reasons other than reaping financial rewards to entice buy in. Find them. Market them. The secret is good ownership. CBS bought the Yankees years ago and severely damaged the product. Along came George. Problem solved. He turned it into a money printing machine because he knew how to do that. This is what the WNBA needs. People with a vision and the resources to make it work. As much as I hate to admit it people like and buy into what the marketing geniuses make them believe.

As for the CBA they got what they wanted. Be careful what you want.

It's less that I'm negative towards the WNBA, but I am negative towards the current players' attitudes. I remember when the league first started, they had an influx of players coming from the overseas clubs who were thrilled for the opportunity to play at home in front of family and friends. Now, you have a bunch of self-appointed prima donnas saying, "Where's my money?!? Must be nice...grumble grumble". If that's their attitude, then how are they supposed to get fans?

I don't think it's a realistic idea to ask super rich people/corporations to invest in a team that will lose money year over year and vilify you for not paying the players millions of dollars. Even decisions to make what are "bad investments" on the surface could be worth it if there's a downstream impact that improves revenue. In the absence of this, it's not an investment; it's a charitable donation.

But I like the idea of starting with the list that @UHF shared above. Who would be better investors than successful wealthy women?

 

[UCTitleTown]

Two things I'd be curious to see trialed: A 1v1 league and a co-ed league.

 

[UHF]

It's less that I'm negative towards the WNBA, but I am negative towards the current players' attitudes. I remember when the league first started, they had an influx of players coming from the overseas clubs who were thrilled for the opportunity to play at home in front of family and friends. Now, you have a bunch of self-appointed prima donnas saying, "Where's my money?!? Must be nice...grumble grumble". If that's their attitude, then how are they supposed to get fans?

. . . .

Crazy how they refuse to accept 3 basic concepts.

• Supply and Demand.
• No one owes them anything.
• WNBA, NWSL, etc. are opportunities and privileges, not human rights.

 

[HopJim]

Perhaps the WNBA needs to follow some of the European and parts of the US sports model. While I recognize in Europe there is significant sponsorship money, they play in smaller gyms in smaller cities where there is less competition for fans. This is similar to much of the US women's basketball college model where teams like Baylor (Waco, TX), South Carolina (Columbia, SC), Notre Dame (South Bend, IN), UConn, etc. sell out frequently since they don't compete with pro sports. When I lived outside Dallas, while it had a huge potential fan base, the WNBA team rarely received a mention anywhere, in large part because of who they competed with for attention (i.e. Cowboys, Mavericks, Rangers, FC Dallas Football, SMU men's football/basketball, college football teams throughout the state, Stars hockey, etc.). A team that can't come close to filling a third of the arenas isn't going to generate much excitement.

 

[Beemer]

Perhaps the WNBA needs to follow some of the European and parts of the US sports model. While I recognize in Europe there is significant sponsorship money, they play in smaller gyms in smaller cities where there is less competition for fans. This is similar to much of the US women's basketball college model where teams like Baylor (Waco, TX), South Carolina (Columbia, SC), Notre Dame (South Bend, IN), UConn, etc. sell out frequently since they don't compete with pro sports. When I lived outside Dallas, while it had a huge potential fan base, the WNBA team rarely received a mention anywhere, in large part because of who they competed with for attention (i.e. Cowboys, Mavericks, Rangers, FC Dallas Football, SMU men's football/basketball, college football teams throughout the state, Stars hockey, etc.). A team that can't come close to filling a third of the arenas isn't going to generate much excitement.

I've often thought the WNBA should have franchises in the smaller cities that strongly support women's basketball. For instance, Knoxville. Despite the recent slide of the Lady Vols there is still a firm foundation of support for women's basketball in that part of the state. The WNBA should be making use of that support.

 

[UHF]

. . . When I lived outside Dallas, while it had a huge potential fan base, the WNBA team rarely received a mention anywhere, in large part because of who they competed with for attention (i.e. Cowboys, Mavericks, Rangers, FC Dallas Football, SMU men's football/basketball, college football teams throughout the state, Stars hockey, etc.). A team that can't come close to filling a third of the arenas isn't going to generate much excitement.

Texas is a hotbed for AAU and high school girls sports - volleyball, basketball, track & field, etc. Texans pay more attention to AAU and high school girls sports than the WNBA.

 

[Beemer]

@VaConnFan11 I am with you on the watchability factor. It is a struggle for me to watch a game, it bears so little resemblance to the women's college game. I think the league needs to stop trying to be the women's version of the NBA in all aspects and put their own stamp on the game.

 

[baggerbob]

I've often thought the WNBA should have franchises in the smaller cities that strongly support women's basketball. For instance, Knoxville. Despite the recent slide of the Lady Vols there is still a firm foundation of support for women's basketball in that part of the state. The WNBA should be making use of that support.

In the early years of the NBA most of the franchises were in smaller cities.

 

[Zinethar]

​

It's less that I'm negative towards the WNBA, but I am negative towards the current players' attitudes. I remember when the league first started, they had an influx of players coming from the overseas clubs who were thrilled for the opportunity to play at home in front of family and friends. Now, you have a bunch of self-appointed prima donnas saying, "Where's my money?!? Must be nice...grumble grumble". If that's their attitude, then how are they supposed to get fans?

I don't think it's a realistic idea to ask super rich people/corporations to invest in a team that will lose money year over year and vilify you for not paying the players millions of dollars. Even decisions to make what are "bad investments" on the surface could be worth it if there's a downstream impact that improves revenue. In the absence of this, it's not an investment; it's a charitable donation.

But I like the idea of starting with the list that @UHF shared above. Who would be better investors than successful wealthy women?

I certainly don't disagree with you or @UHF that the attitudes displayed by some of the players have certainly been "unhelpful" and looking at owning a team currently should not be looked at as an investment but as something they think is right to do. That requires the league to prepare a package that is attractive to those people. I would hope that successful women would be among those interested but in my life have found women are often harsher critics of other women than men are. It needs to be the "cool" thing to do in this current social media environment.

 

[TC22]

TV coverage of WNBA Finals has been ahead of the curve for NBA Finals, with respect to the number of years after the WNBA and NBA were born.

It took 24 years before the entire NBA Finals were broadcast on national TV. How soon after the WNBA was born were the WNBA Finals broadcast on national TV?

2021 article "NBA Finals on the networks: A storied and often colorful history through the lens of television."

NBA Finals on the networks: A storied and often colorful history through the lens of television - Sports Broadcast Journal

We also have a LOT more Networks covering sports in general now.

 

[socal613ws]

Adam Silver said the Wnba lost 10 million a season, not sure why people are thinking expansion is going to solve anything.

 

[ballerfan]

How many people on this board who are complaining about the WNBA watch enough WNBA games to have an informed opinion about the league? Are you really going to be bored watching Sue, Stewie, and Gabby play together at Seattle?

The WNBA season starts tomorrow. You can get a WNBA League Pass for $25 a year, letting you watch every WNBA game during the season live or on demand. You can try the pass free for seven days.

Tomorrow Seattle plays Minnesota. Napheesa plays for Minnesota, but she’s due to give birth later this month. Anyway, get the seven-day free trial and watch the Seattle-Minnesota game live or on demand this weekend. Then decide if the league is so awful.

Also, when Paige goes to the WNBA in a couple years, will no one here bother to watch her pro career?

 

[amb3096]

How many people on this board who are complaining about the WNBA watch enough WNBA games to have an informed opinion about the league? Are you really going to be bored watching Sue, Stewie, and Gabby play together at Seattle?

The WNBA season starts tomorrow. You can get a WNBA League Pass for $25 a year, letting you watch every WNBA game during the season live or on demand. You can try the pass free for seven days.

Tomorrow Seattle plays Minnesota. Napheesa plays for Minnesota, but she’s due to give birth later this month. Anyway, get the seven-day free trial and watch the Seattle-Minnesota game live or on demand this weekend. Then decide if the league is so awful.

Also, when Paige goes to the WNBA in a couple years, will no one here bother to watch her pro career?

I've been watching the WNBA since the league formed, and have had multiple League Passes at the both the League and Team level over the years.

 

[amb3096]

I certainly don't disagree with you or @UHF that the attitudes displayed by some of the players have certainly been "unhelpful" and looking at owning a team currently should not be looked at as an investment but as something they think is right to do. That requires the league to prepare a package that is attractive to those people. I would hope that successful women would be among those interested but in my life have found women are often harsher critics of other women than men are. It needs to be the "cool" thing to do in this current social media environment.

Can I ask why you think that investing in a WNBA team should be viewed any differently than any other investment? What about the WNBA that would elevate it to "right to do" status?

In many ways, the NBA and then the independent owners have done just what you suggest and provided a forum for women's professional basketball in the US, but are in turn criticized for not making the players wealthy. If the NBA withdrew support (including their role in TV, venue negotiations and any sponsorships), it's doubtful the WNBA be able to even play one more season. Maybe that's what needs to happen so that should another investment vehicle come in to form another league in the future, then the players will be more appreciative for the opportunity.

I can't speak for your experience, but if that last sentence is generally true...then that's quite unfortunate. Female athletes should then be calling out women for not being more supportive.

 

[ballerfan]

I've been watching the WNBA since the league formed, and have had multiple League Passes at the both the League and Team level over the years.

That’s great that you’ve bought the pass. I wasn’t thinking about you when I wrote my post because, as you said, your concern is less the WNBA than the attitude of certain players.

Still, I’m curious. Would you not enjoy watching Sue, Stewie, and Gabby play together? Are you going to watch Paige and Azzi in the WNBA?

The four games of the 2021 WNBA finals averaged 548,000 viewers. That’s nothing compared with the 9.9 million average for the 2021 NBA finals, but at least I know I’m not the only person who likes the WNBA.

 

[UHF]

We also have a LOT more Networks covering sports in general now.

Plus streaming services. WNBA has enjoyed media and social media exposure advantages that the NBA did not - at the same stage 20 years into existence.

Yet, there are 2 BY threads with the annual Q&A about the WNBA not being able to expand and provide more than 144 opportunities for former NCAA student athletes.

 

[UHF]

The only small city in the original and early NBA was Providence . . .

1950 population was 248,000 in Providence, but the Steamers were no more by then.
1950 population was 352,000 in Rochester for the Royals.

Unless the world wide interweb and Google provided misinformation.

 

[UHF]

WNBA raised funds from investors in an effort to improve its business model. WNBA reportedly acquired $75 million.

How soon before return on investment directly leads to 2 expansion teams and 24 roster spots that former NCAA student athletes might compete for?

 

[baggerbob]

1950 population was 248,000 in Providence, but the Steamers were no more by then.
1950 population was 352,000 in Rochester for the Royals.

Unless the world wide interweb and Google provided misinformation.

Syracuse and Fort Wayne were in the NBA early years. The 24 second clock comes from Danny Biasone, the owner of the Syracuse franchise.

 

[UHF]

How many people on this board who are complaining about the WNBA watch enough WNBA games to have an informed opinion about the league? Are you really going to be bored watching Sue, Stewie, and Gabby play together at Seattle?

The WNBA season starts tomorrow. You can get a WNBA League Pass for $25 a year, letting you watch every WNBA game during the season live or on demand. You can try the pass free for seven days.

Tomorrow Seattle plays Minnesota. Napheesa plays for Minnesota, but she’s due to give birth later this month. Anyway, get the seven-day free trial and watch the Seattle-Minnesota game live or on demand this weekend. Then decide if the league is so awful.

Also, when Paige goes to the WNBA in a couple years, will no one here bother to watch her pro career?

Please tell us how many games we must watch in order to have informed opinions. Thank you.

Highly visible players in the WNBA, NWSL, and USA WNT refuse to publicly acknowledge supply & demand is the real issue. Instead, they play the inequity victim card.

No American owes them anything. Whether or not they watch the WNBA, NWSL, USA WNT.

Entitlement : the belief that one is inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.

 

[amb3096]

That’s great that you’ve bought the pass. I wasn’t thinking about you when I wrote my post because, as you said, your concern is less the WNBA than the attitude of certain players.

Still, I’m curious. Would you not enjoy watching Sue, Stewie, and Gabby play together? Are you going to watch Paige and Azzi in the WNBA?

The four games of the 2021 WNBA finals averaged 548,000 viewers. That’s nothing compared with the 9.9 million average for the 2021 NBA finals, but at least I know I’m not the only person who likes the WNBA.

As has been the case the last few seasons, I will begin watching after the All-Star game. Personally, I find the first half of the season unwatchable. No flow, no continuity, star players finishing overseas commitment, etc. The players act like they barely care about the league because it's clear that overseas is their #1 priority. Then they immediately come to their WNBA team and play lethargically for a few weeks before they get into a groove. Hard no from me on that. I can think of much better use of my summer hours.

FTR, I'm a Tennessee fan, not a UConn fan. So yes...I will be rooting for the Chicago Sky later on in the season and will watch Phoenix to see how Diamond does there. Will also follow the Wings for Harrison plus the ND girls, Harris from SC and McCowan. Depending on where Rickea and Horston land, I may follow their teams next season. I just have one hard rule: I will not root for any team that Liz Cambage plays for. I think she's an awful person and the WNBA should show a backbone and tell her she's not welcome in the league with the way that she constantly disparages it. Like, if it's so bad, then stop showing up already. Life will go on in the WNBA without her.

Those ratings are just further reason why the players should take a step back and think about what they're asking for themselves. Those are bad for a professional sports league that takes itself as seriously as the WNBA does. To put it in perspective, Pro Bowling championships had twice as many viewers for their championships. That should be every player in the league's #1 priority: growing their fanbase (and I mean fans that turn up and tune in for their games, not hit "like" on their tweets complaining about some imaginary gender pay disparity).

 

[nwhoopfan]

As has been the case the last few seasons, I will begin watching after the All-Star game. Personally, I find the first half of the season unwatchable. No flow, no continuity, star players finishing overseas commitment, etc. The players act like they barely care about the league because it's clear that overseas is their #1 priority. Then they immediately come to their WNBA team and play lethargically for a few weeks before they get into a groove.

But the games before the All Star break determine who will play in the all important Commissioner's Cup. The Storm won that and then pretty much mailed it in for the rest of the season. Must've been better than winning a WNBA Championship.

 

[socal613ws]

without the Nba this league would have been dead and buried a long time ago. Then you had Wnba players taking shots at Nba players for whatever reason, yea that's smart, take a shot at the league that is helping you financially. Might have been the reason Adam Silver dropped a pipebomb with mentioning the loss of money the league has yearly. At this point they are a tax write off for the Nba. Honestly might be better to just let it die and start from scratch with a new league. Saw Around the Horn and Kevin Blackistone made a good point, the previous women's basketball league had fair and higher pay and better structure for players to get paid. Somehow a newer league has set them backwards.