Evina Waived. Burke and Harrigan as well

[Beemer]

It was Kaela Davis, one of the players from SC 2017 National Championship team. She gave up her last year of eligibility and was a 1st round draft pick, played 2 years for Dallas and got waived. She’s killed it overseas but hasn’t been able to stick with a WNBA team. She got waived by CHICAGO today.

I read that tweet. I give her major props for openly admitting that she made a mistake in coming out early and warning those coming after her not to make the same error.

 

[Audi1954]

Sorry, I don't get the WNBA. She gets drafted 21st overall and gets cut?? This makes no sense. If it was for salary reasons, wouldn't veterans get cut and young players be retained? It's really amazing this league is still in business.

Totally unsure about the math/salaries, but you’d think they might be able to get two rookies for the price of one veteran?

 

[Beemer]

W/r/t WNBA CBA- like the CBAs in the rest of professional sports, it benefits the veteran star players over rookie unknown players. That will never change.

I loved Breanna Stewart when she was a Husky but IMO she needs a lesson in economics- without vastly increased revenue from ticket sales and especially media contracts there simply is not enough money for teams to spend more on player contracts. If the WNBA ever generates revenues on the level the NBA does then you'll see it reflected in the CBA and individual player contracts but not one second before that happens, if ever.

The same applies for expansion. There is a lot of talk about how the WNBA "needs" to expand but that simply is not going to happen until investors are sure that the league is a wise place to put their money- IOW that they will make some $ out of it. There simply are not enough investors out there interested in women's basketball that are willing to buy a team as a "toy" that can be profitable or not.

 

[UCTitleTown]

I think the NBA needs to subsidize the WNBA. All this talk about greater support for women's sports is a joke, like the combined Men's & Women's March Madness shows. It's time to put up or shut up. First round picks shouldn't be getting cut or have to play in Russia. The NBA is great at marketing. They need to provide more support for the WNBA.

 

[WFFL]

Watch the WNBA

 

[UcMiami]

Collective bargaining in any sport is negotiated between professional athletes and team owners - the college athletes do not get a seat at that table. It is no surprise that the eventual contracts favor the professional athletes rather than the future draft picks.

1. MLB draft is really weird in that some of the top picks made each year are players who will require huge rookie contracts.
2. NFL (rolling in money) put in place a rookie pay scale that greatly reduced the money on the top rookie contracts so vets would get a bigger slice of the salary cap.

Etc.

WNBA has a new collective bargaining agreement that greatly increased the top of the vet salary scale at the cost of agreeing to a hard salary cap, in effect dropping total players in the league by a maximum of 12 which was always going to hit the newly drafted player pool and reduce the 'developmental' players on teams' rosters. At least all of those players have a shot at playing in developmental leagues around the world.

The new harder stance on overseas play for WNBA players will have a huge and as yet undetermined ripple effect. Some of those max contract and mid level veterans are going to still choose to play overseas next year. That will drop them from rosters in the W and opening new roster spots for young/drafted players. Whether losing some stars and adding some lesser players is positive or negative for the league will be determined years from now. For example, will fans be happier to see a draftee on a roster vs. say Katie Lou or Gabby as I think both of them may well choose star roles overseas with more money to bench roles in the W.

 

[Zarathustra]

Much like what Seattle did with Ezi, Laureen Jackson is one of the heads of. Australia basketball. They knew Ezi was 19, and wouldn't come to America the 1st year.
Same with Melbourne, she is on their national team will stay in Australia this year, and come over next year.

Ms. Jade Melbourne almost came to the Arizona State University Sun Devils, stayed in Australia due to
being invited to play with the Canberra Capitals ( it was hard for players to get into or out
of Australia due to COVID restrictions.) The Canberra Coach asked Jade to try out for the team.
She played WELL in the big girl league at 18 years of age! Ms. Melbourne is now 19 yoa.
She is listed as a " swingman" and during the most recent the Australian WNBA season had 8.3 ppg 2.4 rebounds pre game,
2 assists per game and shot 44 % from the field. On the webpage ( I googled JADE MELBOURNE )
she was described as having " speed" and "finishing ability". Of course she was drafted during the WNBA draft in the
third round, # 33, by the Seattle Storm. I believe that she was on the Australian U 17? U 18 ? girls' team that lost
to the USA in the FIBA WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS, in OVERTIME in Thailand. Paige was the overall MVP and Van Lith and Rhyne Howard also were on that team for the USA ( almong MANY other USA notables). So... does she stay with
the Storm, play at ASU, or go back to the Canberra Capitals.?? Stay tune, Z

 

[MSSportsGuy]

W/r/t WNBA CBA- like the CBAs in the rest of professional sports, it benefits the veteran star players over rookie unknown players. That will never change.

I loved Breanna Stewart when she was a Husky but IMO she needs a lesson in economics- without vastly increased revenue from ticket sales and especially media contracts there simply is not enough money for teams to spend more on player contracts. If the WNBA ever generates revenues on the level the NBA does then you'll see it reflected in the CBA and individual player contracts but not one second before that happens, if ever.

The same applies for expansion. There is a lot of talk about how the WNBA "needs" to expand but that simply is not going to happen until investors are sure that the league is a wise place to put their money- IOW that they will make some $ out of it. There simply are not enough investors out there interested in women's basketball that are willing to buy a team as a "toy" that can be profitable or not.

Exactly. Right now women's basketball remains a niche product. It's very, very difficult for a team to make any money.

The players in the league are the best in the world. They have been loved and adored by American audiences since their college or in some cases high school days. They play to small, pack areas overseas and get paid significantly more money, but it's just a different world here in America. Maybe it shouldn't be, but it's just the reality here.

Until a larger, broader fan base accepts women's basketball as a desirable product to go watch in person or on TV, the money and size of the league will not change.

 

[Beemer]

I think the NBA needs to subsidize the WNBA. All this talk about greater support for women's sports is a joke, like the combined Men's & Women's March Madness shows. It's time to put up or shut up. First round picks shouldn't be getting cut or have to play in Russia. The NBA is great at marketing. They need to provide more support for the WNBA.

IIRC the NBA subsidizes the WNBA to the tune of 12-15 million per year. Could they do more? I suppose so but IMO the present NBA commissioner (name escapes me at the moment) is not the supporter of the WNBA that David Stern was. I firmly believe his attitude towards the WNBA is "here is your subsidy. Now run along and don't bother me while I handle the more important business of running the NBA".

 

[amb3096]

IIRC the NBA subsidizes the WNBA to the tune of 12-15 million per year. Could they do more? I suppose so but IMO the present NBA commissioner (name escapes me at the moment) is not the supporter of the WNBA that David Stern was. I firmly believe his attitude towards the WNBA is "here is your subsidy. Now run along and don't bother me while I handle the more important business of running the NBA".

As they should! If the WNBA can't stand on its own without the NBA propping them up with no ROI, then that shows that the WNBA is not a viable product.

What is the WNBA doing to establish their own foundation that doesn't rely on NBA charity donations? All this talk about expansion leagues, higher salaries, charter planes...they are completely out of touch! Make some money first, then you will have earned those perks.

For those saying that someone should start a competing league...how would it sustain itself without investors willing to lose millions upon millions per year (probably even worse than the WNBA, without the NBA packaging WNBA games into their negotiations with ESPN/ABC)

 

[amb3096]

Exactly. Right now women's basketball remains a niche product. It's very, very difficult for a team to make any money.

The players in the league are the best in the world. They have been loved and adored by American audiences since their college or in some cases high school days. They play to small, pack areas overseas and get paid significantly more money, but it's just a different world here in America. Maybe it shouldn't be, but it's just the reality here.

Until a larger, broader fan base accepts women's basketball as a desirable product to go watch in person or on TV, the money and size of the league will not change.

The players are also of the misguided notion that being the best at their sport entitles them to reap the benefits that top players from other sports enjoy...all the while ignoring that not all sports are not created equal in terms of market value.

 

[Zinethar]

What many are missing is that what is needed is the right owners. Several leagues in Europe (and at least in the past Russia) are owned by the super rich who really don't care if the team makes money. They own the teams for the recognition and "free" advertising and tax write offs. The Liberty got into trouble because their owner flew them on a private plane like all the teams should be able to do. That is the type of owner needed. The league needs to package themselves in a way that attracts that type owner.

 

[Audi1954]

I find it interesting that social media accounts by Paige and others from the team, as well as Evina‘s account, have no public comments about her being waived. There’s likely plenty going on behind the scenes. I wonder if they know something that can’t be shared right now? Could there be potential for Evina retuning to the Storm’s roster soon or possibly a trade to another team?

 

[bballnut90]

At the end of the day, the wnba needs to start getting younger, nalyssa smith said it best, the wnba needs more youth, imo there cutting young talent that can bring them viewers, which eventually brings in more money. I’m not saying to just start cutting a lot of veterans, but there has to be a balance, that’s what’s good about the nba there’s a mix of great veterans mixed with some really good up in coming young talent. Wnba is cutting these girls before they even get a chance to prove themselves.

Rookies and youth doesn't lead to immediate winning, and Seattle is very much in win mode this year since they lose Bird/Stewart after his year. Keeping players like Westbrook and Cunane over seasoned veterans doesn't make a lot of sense if you're looking for immediate contribution. On the flip side, Indiana is not in win mode and as a result they've kept 5 rookies on the roster, and all were top 10 draft picks besides Destanni Henderson.

 

[Beemer]

The players are also of the misguided notion that being the best at their sport entitles them to reap the benefits that top players from other sports enjoy...all the while ignoring that not all sports are not created equal in terms of market value.

Yeah, that whole "pay equity" nonsense.

These young women should study the history of the NBA- it wasn't until the late 80s/early 90s that we started seeing the explosion in revenues that set the table for the ridiculous player contracts we see today. The NBA was nearly a half century old before this took place, with many ups & downs before reaching that point. The WNBA is only 26. They may not like it but these women are still laying the foundation for women's professional basketball in this country- other women will reap the benefits of what they have built. It was ever thus....

 

[cabbie191]

WNBA just lost another fan. Not that anyone cares.

You’re certainly entitled to feel this way and I think I understand where it comes from.

Unfortunately, IMO, it just perpetuates the basic problem the WNBA faces with shaky fan support which helps make what happened to Edina more likely to keep recurring.

 

[amb3096]

Yeah, that whole "pay equity" nonsense.

These young women should study the history of the NBA- it wasn't until the late 80s/early 90s that we started seeing the explosion in revenues that set the table for the ridiculous player contracts we see today. The NBA was nearly a half century old before this took place, with many ups & downs before reaching that point. The WNBA is only 26. They may not like it but these women are still laying the foundation for women's professional basketball in this country- other women will reap the benefits of what they have built. It was ever thus....

Except it's not pay equity. Seriously, I wonder if people who constantly harp on this even understand this. WNBA players make more than G League players. Oh the humanity! NBA, WNBA and G League are three separate leagues. One makes gobs of money, one is a feeder program, and the other is a money pit. Normally when a business unit is a money pit, it gets divested. It's bad business to continue to throw good money away on a financial drain.

And the WNBA has a gazillion advantages in the 2020s that the NBA didn't have in the 1940s. For starters, they have a parent company that has given them a long leash in spite of losing hundreds of millions since inception. The internet opens them up to a much broader audience than the NBA ever did, as well as player visibility/marketing. There are plenty of sports that launched well after the WNBA that have exploded in popularity, and they didn't need 40 years to do so.

 

[cabbie191]

Why Brittney Griner Could Be the Last American Basketball Star in Russia

Several have noted playing in Europe. This article from the NYT is pretty interesting.

It might be a challenge to read this since it’s
from a subscription site.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

As they should! If the WNBA can't stand on its own without the NBA propping them up with no ROI, then that shows that the WNBA is not a viable product.

What is the WNBA doing to establish their own foundation that doesn't rely on NBA charity donations? All this talk about expansion leagues, higher salaries, charter planes...they are completely out of touch! Make some money first, then you will have earned those perks.

For those saying that someone should start a competing league...how would it sustain itself without investors willing to lose millions upon millions per year (probably even worse than the WNBA, without the NBA packaging WNBA games into their negotiations with ESPN/ABC)

The charter flights is one thing I can get behind. Forr what the league has spent on unsuccessful marketing they could afford charter flights.

I recall when the league launched in 1997 and that year we were inundated with TV commercials and spots. I know it was all part of the plan to launch the league but in 25 years there have been countless marketing campaigns and money and time spent on outreach, all trying to find an audience. I won't say it was a waste of money as I'm sure some people tuned in but poor marketing has been the boogeyman for years and the truth is much more complicated.

 

[Jlong231]

Rookies and youth doesn't lead to immediate winning, and Seattle is very much in win mode this year since they lose Bird/Stewart after his year. Keeping players like Westbrook and Cunane over seasoned veterans doesn't make a lot of sense if you're looking for immediate contribution. On the flip side, Indiana is not in win mode and as a result they've kept 5 rookies on the roster, and all were top 10 draft picks besides Destanni Henderson.

I definitely agree, but outside of Indiana, most wnba teams seem to prefer keeping veterans over rookies. I feel you can still be in win mode and have a mixer of rookies on your team. I mentioned yesterday I’ve seen on each team at least one or two veterans that should have been cut over some of these rookies. Imo you still can’t win games/championships if you keep veterans around who aren’t producing anymore.

 

[baggerbob]

I definitely agree, but outside of Indiana, most wnba teams seem to prefer keeping veterans over rookies. I feel you can still be in win mode and have a mixer of rookies on your team. I mentioned yesterday I’ve seen on each team at least one or two veterans that should have been cut over some of these rookies. Imo you still can’t win games/championships if you keep veterans around who aren’t producing anymore.

The 10th and 11th players on all the teams hardly ever play, and should never be used on veterans. They fill a roster spot and don't help win the championship.

 

[UHF]

The players are also of the misguided notion that being the best at their sport entitles them to reap the benefits that top players from other sports enjoy...all the while ignoring that not all sports are not created equal in terms of market value.

Truth.

 

[cancontent]

Professional athletes pretty much work year-round on their craft even if they may only pay 4 months. It's a full-time job! I would estimate that they work more at their job than most people in the "real" world.

Not to mention most will go overseas after the WNBA season is over to continue making a living. It's the unfortunate reality of professional sports for women.

 

[amb3096]

The charter flights is one thing I can get behind. Forr what the league has spent on unsuccessful marketing they could afford charter flights.

I recall when the league launched in 1997 and that year we were inundated with TV commercials and spots. I know it was all part of the plan to launch the league but in 25 years there have been countless marketing campaigns and money and time spent on outreach, all trying to find an audience. I won't say it was a waste of money as I'm sure some people tuned in but poor marketing has been the boogeyman for years and the truth is much more complicated.

Sure, charter flights would be nice. I'm sure the G League would also prefer them since they make travel much more comfortable/efficient. But they are very expensive and not all team owners can afford them. Who would be expected to pay for these? This is one of those examples where just maybe the players should have been thinking about this during CBA negotiations instead of how to get more money in their pockets.

 

[UHF]

Supply and Demand. People are not obligated - to desire or to be willing - to pay for the services of athletes in sports.