Evina Waived. Burke and Harrigan as well

[cancontent]

Sure, charter flights would be nice. I'm sure the G League would also prefer them since they make travel much more comfortable/efficient. But they are very expensive and not all team owners can afford them. Who would be expected to pay for these? This is one of those examples where just maybe the players should have been thinking about this during CBA negotiations instead of how to get more money in their pockets.

It possibly was during the last set of negotiations and may have been left off the table for other things. Unfortunately, charter flights didn't happen but they were upgraded from flying coach. As with all negotiations, you don't get everything you want and sometimes have to give something up to get something else in return.

A quote from an SI article that talked about the CBA that was negotiated in 2020.

"Salary and other cash compensation aren’t the only metrics by which WNBA players’ employment will improve. They will no longer fly coach. To that end, the new CBA will guarantee that WNBA players fly in premium airline seats, such as comfort or economy plus. Each player will also be given an individual hotel accommodation. Further, the new CBA will contain progressive motherhood and family planning benefits. Benefits will include fully paid maternity leave, a new annual childcare stipend of $5,000, workplace accommodations for nursing mothers and two-bedroom apartments for players with children. In addition, veteran players will be eligible for up to $60,000 in reimbursed expenses related to adoption, surrogacy, oocyte cryopreservation or fertility/infertility treatment."

Analyzing the WNBA's New CBA Deal

The new CBA is poised to provide major improvements in pay and benefits to WNBA players while assuring league officials that their players will prioritize the WNBA over foreign leagues.

www.si.com

 

[Argonaut]

Why Brittney Griner Could Be the Last American Basketball Star in Russia

Several have noted playing in Europe. This article from the NYT is pretty interesting.

It might be a challenge to read this since it’s
from a subscription site.

Your friendly BY librarian here to remind you that most of you can access the NYT with your local library card number! Different libraries will have different ways to make that happen, but that's a publication most libraries will pay for patron access to. If you need help with that (or need a library card), we love helping with stuff like this!

 

[bballnut90]

I definitely agree, but outside of Indiana, most wnba teams seem to prefer keeping veterans over rookies. I feel you can still be in win mode and have a mixer of rookies on your team. I mentioned yesterday I’ve seen on each team at least one or two veterans that should have been cut over some of these rookies. Imo you still can’t win games/championships if you keep veterans around who aren’t producing anymore.

Going team by team:
Indiana-5 rookies
Atlanta-4 rookies
Las Vegas-2 rookies (they notably waived Pointer/Hollingshed but kept Bell and Sheppard)
Connecticut-2 rookies
Washington-2 rookies
Minnesota-0 rookies
Seattle-1 rookie

Roster not finalized:
Dallas
Chicago
Los Angeles
Phoenix
New York

Right now there are 16 rookies locked in on a roster spot to start the year, but I am guessing the number will be closer to 25 once final rosters come through today/tomorrow. I think that's a pretty solid number of rookies to make rosters, average of about 2 per team.

 

[Zarathustra]

Collective bargaining in any sport is negotiated between professional athletes and team owners - the college athletes do not get a seat at that table. It is no surprise that the eventual contracts favor the professional athletes rather than the future draft picks.

1. MLB draft is really weird in that some of the top picks made each year are players who will require huge rookie contracts.
2. NFL (rolling in money) put in place a rookie pay scale that greatly reduced the money on the top rookie contracts so vets would get a bigger slice of the salary cap.

Etc.

WNBA has a new collective bargaining agreement that greatly increased the top of the vet salary scale at the cost of agreeing to a hard salary cap, in effect dropping total players in the league by a maximum of 12 which was always going to hit the newly drafted player pool and reduce the 'developmental' players on teams' rosters. At least all of those players have a shot at playing in developmental leagues around the world.

The new harder stance on overseas play for WNBA players will have a huge and as yet undetermined ripple effect. Some of those max contract and mid level veterans are going to still choose to play overseas next year. That will drop them from rosters in the W and opening new roster spots for young/drafted players. Whether losing some stars and adding some lesser players is positive or negative for the league will be determined years from now. For example, will fans be happier to see a draftee on a roster vs. say Katie Lou or Gabby as I think both of them may well choose star roles overseas with more money to bench roles in the W.

I appreciate the insights and clarifications of the economics of the WNBA, Overseas, and the interface
of the WNBA and the NCAA women players. One can still have his or her feelings ( I'm speaking as
a fan here), but it truly helps me to learn and begin to understand some of the forces going on that are
not fully updated to my radar screen. Thanks to everyone who takes the time to give the rhyme to
the reasons.

 

[Zarathustra]

It possibly was during the last set of negotiations and may have been left off the table for other things. Unfortunately, charter flights didn't happen but they were upgraded from flying coach. As with all negotiations, you don't get everything you want and sometimes have to give something up to get something else in return.

A quote from an SI article that talked about the CBA that was negotiated in 2020.

"Salary and other cash compensation aren’t the only metrics by which WNBA players’ employment will improve. They will no longer fly coach. To that end, the new CBA will guarantee that WNBA players fly in premium airline seats, such as comfort or economy plus. Each player will also be given an individual hotel accommodation. Further, the new CBA will contain progressive motherhood and family planning benefits. Benefits will include fully paid maternity leave, a new annual childcare stipend of $5,000, workplace accommodations for nursing mothers and two-bedroom apartments for players with children. In addition, veteran players will be eligible for up to $60,000 in reimbursed expenses related to adoption, surrogacy, oocyte cryopreservation or fertility/infertility treatment."

Analyzing the WNBA's New CBA Deal

The new CBA is poised to provide major improvements in pay and benefits to WNBA players while assuring league officials that their players will prioritize the WNBA over foreign leagues.

www.si.com

Thanks for posting about the 2020 contract items. I appreciate learning about the context!

 

[eebmg]

IIRC the NBA subsidizes the WNBA to the tune of 12-15 million per year. Could they do more? I suppose so but IMO the present NBA commissioner (name escapes me at the moment) is not the supporter of the WNBA that David Stern was. I firmly believe his attitude towards the WNBA is "here is your subsidy. Now run along and don't bother me while I handle the more important business of running the NBA".

Save the subsidies for Simmons and Irving.

 

[TC22]

Lindsay Allen,, a 5 uear vet, was waived from Indiana today, but they kept Henderson??? Damn, I'd keep ND pedigree long before the one game wonder.

She wasn't a one game wonder. She did what she needed to do for her team to win. She did the same thing against Stanford, scoring 18 pts. in the second half when we played them in Dec and were down 17 at one time.

 

[VaConnFan11]

I've watched hundreds of WCBB games, but can't sit through a WNBA game. To me, it's just NBA style (one on one) basketball without the dunks. Boring to a lot of people.

There is no male interest in the sport, especially among young males. I asked my 18 year old son and his friends if they had ever seen a WNBA game. All of them said no, and barely knew it existed. All of them could name several NBA players and all are keeping up with the NBA playoffs.

Like it or not, until the league can figure out how to get men interested in their game, it will continue to struggle.

 

[Bone Dog]

I've watched hundreds of WCBB games, but can't sit through a WNBA game. To me, it's just NBA style (one on one) basketball without the dunks. Boring to a lot of people.

There is no male interest in the sport, especially among young males. I asked my 18 year old son and his friends if they had ever seen a WNBA game. All of them said no, and barely knew it existed. All of them could name several NBA players and all are keeping up with the NBA playoffs.

Like it or not, until the league can figure out how to get men interested in their game, it will continue to struggle.

That's sad to hear. I suspect there isn't nearly enough female interest in it either. I know within my circle of friends, not a single woman regularly watches any women's sports. They'll come over to our house every four years to watch WWCSoccer. But I'm the only one yelling during the matches. They even make fun of me for obsessing over WCBB.

 

[UHF]

I've watched hundreds of WCBB games, but can't sit through a WNBA game. To me, it's just NBA style (one on one) basketball without the dunks. Boring to a lot of people.

There is no male interest in the sport, especially among young males. I asked my 18 year old son and his friends if they had ever seen a WNBA game. All of them said no, and barely knew it existed. All of them could name several NBA players and all are keeping up with the NBA playoffs.

Like it or not, until the league can figure out how to get men interested in their game, it will continue to struggle.

I suspect that more women watch the NBA than watch the WNBA.

 

[amb3096]

Umm, this is why Britney Griner is in Russia. It’s why Taurasi and Bird played in Russia.

I know they go overseas to make more money because of the higher pay compared to the WNBA. But that doesn't mean that they are worth that same salary playing in the US. Just because they are really good in basketball doesn't mean that they deserve to earn more than a HS teacher or a nurse...unless the demand for their services warrants the pay (which it doesn't). They act like they are impoverished and taken advantage of when in reality, their financial situation is one that pretty much any non-athlete/non-celebrity would kill for. The free college education alone is a huge benefit.

Obviously nobody has that right but I was pointing out the issues with the league and the effect on young players like Evina. Many first round picks were waived this year and the league can't expand due to poor revenues and the CBA allowed for higher salaries for certain players. It will not change without new blood, just like the NBA with Larry and Magic.

Is the players the reason, though? There are many exceptionally good young players in the league...but no one is really paying attention. Breanna Stewart is probably the best player in the league, and she has under 300k Instagram followers. Conversely, Joel Embiid has 5.6m followers. Te'a Cooper is (was?) the WNBA-leader in IG followers with 1.5m; LeBron James is the NBA leader (I think) with 119m. The level of interest in the players just isn't there, and obviously Te'a has a whole lot else going on for her besides the WNBA that contributes to her social media following.

The WNBA will never be as successful as the NBA. Most women don't/won't watch sports, and most men don't/won't watch women's basketball. So any comparisons or this "gender pay equity" nonsense just needs to stop. Spend less time complaining about "inequity" and more about finding out how you can grow the league and really connect with your core fanbase.

 

[UHF]

You don’t get big money from people in the stands - it comes from TV contracts. WCBB really took off once all these conferences started showing ALL the games - SEC Network, ACC Network, etc. I haven’t missed a SC game on either TV or ESPN + in about 8 years. The more it’s shown, the more people get to know the players, the more they go to games. It’s coming soon, but they haven’t gotten there quite yet.

TV contracts rely on $ponsors and viewer$.

Sponsors and viewers are paying attention to the NBA Playoffs when the WNBA season starts. Sponsors and viewers are paying attention to MLB during the heart of the WNBA season.

Do people want to sit inside watching the WNBA in the summer? Do people want to watch the WNBA on their laptops, while at the beach, lake, barbecue, or party?

Which comes first, signing sponsors and attracting viewers, or TV contracts? Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

 

[UHF]

. . . . .

The WNBA will never be as successful as the NBA. Most women don't/won't watch sports, and most men don't/won't watch women's basketball. So any comparisons or this "gender pay equity" nonsense just needs to stop. Spend less time complaining about "inequity" and more about finding out how you can grow the league and really connect with your core fanbase.

Truth

 

[amb3096]

It possibly was during the last set of negotiations and may have been left off the table for other things. Unfortunately, charter flights didn't happen but they were upgraded from flying coach. As with all negotiations, you don't get everything you want and sometimes have to give something up to get something else in return.

A quote from an SI article that talked about the CBA that was negotiated in 2020.

"Salary and other cash compensation aren’t the only metrics by which WNBA players’ employment will improve. They will no longer fly coach. To that end, the new CBA will guarantee that WNBA players fly in premium airline seats, such as comfort or economy plus. Each player will also be given an individual hotel accommodation. Further, the new CBA will contain progressive motherhood and family planning benefits. Benefits will include fully paid maternity leave, a new annual childcare stipend of $5,000, workplace accommodations for nursing mothers and two-bedroom apartments for players with children. In addition, veteran players will be eligible for up to $60,000 in reimbursed expenses related to adoption, surrogacy, oocyte cryopreservation or fertility/infertility treatment."

Analyzing the WNBA's New CBA Deal

The new CBA is poised to provide major improvements in pay and benefits to WNBA players while assuring league officials that their players will prioritize the WNBA over foreign leagues.

www.si.com

I read somewhere that it would cost $20 million annually or something like that to provide charter flights for all of the league games. My fuzzy math estimates that's more than the salary cap for all 12 teams combined. From my understanding, the league commissioner gave a hard "no" on this being something that would happen anytime soon. But I would be surprised if it isn't a continued talking point all season long (more than, "how can we grow our fanbase?").

My reference was a bit tongue in cheek, in all honesty. But I still think that their push for higher salaries was the type of short-sighted action that continues to plague the WNBA.

 

[amb3096]

I've watched hundreds of WCBB games, but can't sit through a WNBA game. To me, it's just NBA style (one on one) basketball without the dunks. Boring to a lot of people.

There is no male interest in the sport, especially among young males. I asked my 18 year old son and his friends if they had ever seen a WNBA game. All of them said no, and barely knew it existed. All of them could name several NBA players and all are keeping up with the NBA playoffs.

Like it or not, until the league can figure out how to get men interested in their game, it will continue to struggle.

Or get women to support women's sports.

If men have a certain expectation for watching basketball (speed/athleticism/dunks), then they will never be a fan of the WNBA.

 

[Bone Dog]

...The WNBA will never be as successful as the NBA. Most women don't/won't watch sports, and most men don't/won't watch women's basketball. So any comparisons or this "gender pay equity" nonsense just needs to stop. Spend less time complaining about "inequity" and more about finding out how you can grow the league and really connect with your core fanbase.

I get your argument here, and if those were the only factors, I wouldn't hesitate at all. But I wonder if there haven't been historical factors that have suppressed interest in women's sports. I mean TV coverage has lagged behind existing interest, and not just in terms of what gets broadcast, but how and when. I can't say it enough how many games in the women's tournament had almost no replays available during games. Not enough cameras or crews. At times, it felt like community TV coverage of HS games.

We all know there is substantial interest in WCBB, because we're all crazy about it. And many of us (mainly speaking for myself) find the men's game a bore. I would turn off the Men's NCAA tournament games if I could switch to a Women's game. This doesn't mean the audience is larger. It only means that there's an audience that could be grown if there was greater and higher quality availability on TV. You may be right that the WNBA shares the vices of the NBA. I only watch NBA games to keep company with friends who like it. But it's true that I don't watch many WNBA games either.

So, yes, equity is hard to argue just looking at the current market. But invest in the Women's market and it would soon become a rival to the Men's. This is also a kind of inequity, but not one solved by a new CBA.

 

[cancontent]

I read somewhere that it would cost $20 million annually or something like that to provide charter flights for all of the league games. My fuzzy math estimates that's more than the salary cap for all 12 teams combined. From my understanding, the league commissioner gave a hard "no" on this being something that would happen anytime soon. But I would be surprised if it isn't a continued talking point all season long (more than, "how can we grow our fanbase?").

My reference was a bit tongue in cheek, in all honesty. But I still think that their push for higher salaries was the type of short-sighted action that continues to plague the WNBA.

Totally fair, but I also think people are short changing the efforts being made to improve things. The WNBA made some decent strides in the past couple years with the new commissioner at the helm. She's very pragmatic and is trying to be realistic. Her business background is a huge benefit in comparison to previous commissioners.

Sponsorship deals are getting better and their broadcast deal is a lot better than what they've had based on the history of the league. Marketing and engagement definitely has to improve but based on what has happened, I think the WNBA is on the right track. We're seeing young girls getting more excited about seeing women play. Parents pick up on that and will try to support based on my experience as a youth basketball coach. If the WNBA marketing team gets it right, they could have a loyal fanbase for years to come.

Maybe asking for better salaries was short sighted, but there's nothing wrong in asking for what they feel they're worth. Whether the market can support it will be seen over time.

 

[amb3096]

I get your argument here, and if those were the only factors, I wouldn't hesitate at all. But I wonder if there haven't been historical factors that have suppressed interest in women's sports. I mean TV coverage has lagged behind existing interest, and not just in terms of what gets broadcast, but how and when. I can't say it enough how many games in the women's tournament had almost no replays available during games. Not enough cameras or crews. At times, it felt like community TV coverage of HS games.

We all know there is substantial interest in WCBB, because we're all crazy about it. And many of us (mainly speaking for myself) find the men's game a bore. I would turn off the Men's NCAA tournament games if I could switch to a Women's game. This doesn't mean the audience is larger. It only means that there's an audience that could be grown if there was greater and higher quality availability on TV. You may be right that the WNBA shares the vices of the NBA. I only watch NBA games to keep company with friends who like it. But it's true that I don't watch many WNBA games either.

So, yes, equity is hard to argue just looking at the current market. But invest in the Women's market and it would soon become a rival to the Men's. This is also a kind of inequity, but not one solved by a new CBA.

The counter argument is the popularity of women's tennis, women's gymnastics, and women's figure skating (the latter two particularly compared to their male counterparts). I think the big difference here is that a.) women's tennis has broad appeal to male audiences and b.) gymnastics/figure skating are popular with female viewers. If market research and/or historical trends indicate that it's an opportunity, then it will get coverage regardless if it's men's or women's sports. The WNBA has neither. They've been around for 25 years and there's no clear positive trend. Contrast that with the women's tennis tour that started in 1972 (without the advantage of internet and massive cable television) and where they were by the late '90s. It's night and day.

My other issue with the WNBA is that it's an afterthought for the players. They come into the season late and tired. Hardly any of the top players show up for training camp, and the first few weeks of games looks like it's a pickup game where the players have never practiced together before. It borders on unwatchable. The quality improves by the playoffs, but the beginning of the season is painful to watch. Imagine new viewers who decide to give it a chance and tune in for opening games and are like, "Wow, this is bad!"

International money or grow the WNBA. It's one or the other, and really they can't have both.

 

[UHF]

I get your argument here, and if those were the only factors, I wouldn't hesitate at all. But I wonder if there haven't been historical factors that have suppressed interest in women's sports. I mean TV coverage has lagged behind existing interest, and not just in terms of what gets broadcast, but how and when. I can't say it enough how many games in the women's tournament had almost no replays available during games. Not enough cameras or crews. At times, it felt like community TV coverage of HS games.

. . . .

NBA some games used to be broadcast on tape delay, including as late as the 1979 finals, if not mistaken.

 

[baggerbob]

The counter argument is the popularity of women's tennis, women's gymnastics, and women's figure skating (the latter two particularly compared to their male counterparts). I think the big difference here is that a.) women's tennis has broad appeal to male audiences and b.) gymnastics/figure skating are popular with female viewers. If market research and/or historical trends indicate that it's an opportunity, then it will get coverage regardless if it's men's or women's sports. The WNBA has neither. They've been around for 25 years and there's no clear positive trend. Contrast that with the women's tennis tour that started in 1972 (without the advantage of internet and massive cable television) and where they were by the late '90s. It's night and day.

My other issue with the WNBA is that it's an afterthought for the players. They come into the season late and tired. Hardly any of the top players show up for training camp, and the first few weeks of games looks like it's a pickup game where the players have never practiced together before. It borders on unwatchable. The quality improves by the playoffs, but the beginning of the season is painful to watch. Imagine new viewers who decide to give it a chance and tune in for opening games and are like, "Wow, this is bad!"

International money or grow the WNBA. It's one or the other, and really they can't have both.

The LPGA has been around for about 60 + years and the players do well, not as well as the men. But they have had good commissioners who help brand the product.

 

[UcMiami]

I get your argument here, and if those were the only factors, I wouldn't hesitate at all. But I wonder if there haven't been historical factors that have suppressed interest in women's sports. I mean TV coverage has lagged behind existing interest, and not just in terms of what gets broadcast, but how and when. I can't say it enough how many games in the women's tournament had almost no replays available during games. Not enough cameras or crews. At times, it felt like community TV coverage of HS games.

We all know there is substantial interest in WCBB, because we're all crazy about it. And many of us (mainly speaking for myself) find the men's game a bore. I would turn off the Men's NCAA tournament games if I could switch to a Women's game. This doesn't mean the audience is larger. It only means that there's an audience that could be grown if there was greater and higher quality availability on TV. You may be right that the WNBA shares the vices of the NBA. I only watch NBA games to keep company with friends who like it. But it's true that I don't watch many WNBA games either.

So, yes, equity is hard to argue just looking at the current market. But invest in the Women's market and it would soon become a rival to the Men's. This is also a kind of inequity, but not one solved by a new CBA.

The simple example is that a PBS station in CT took a gamble on WCBB and started broadcasting all Uconn WCBB games ... it became a huge money earner for that non-commercial station and people around the country took notice. Within about 10 years, that station lost a bidding war with a commercial station for those broadcast rights, and other commercial stations started broadcasting a lot of WCBB games when almost no games were being broadcast back in 1995.

All of us fans of WCBB anywhere in the country and with any team owe a debt to CPTV for making that initial commitment and showing it was a commercially viable product. Now we just need to see if we can push it beyond the college game.

(Historical note: pro men's leagues struggled to grow while the men's college game was a bigger attraction. College Football and college basketball were huge while their pro relatives were still barnstorming and their pro athletes were working other jobs in the off seasons. MLB I think was the one pro league that predated serious college interest which is why their farm system was so important to them and remains the primary feeder to the big leagues.)

 

[CTBballfan243]

Both my daughters played basketball growing up, in high school, and one played D3 in college. They watch UConn women and mens basketball but have zero interest in the wnba. They love and watch the NFL, and the NHL. Occasionally they’ll go to watch an MLB baseball game.

 

[Zinethar]

Sure, charter flights would be nice. I'm sure the G League would also prefer them since they make travel much more comfortable/efficient. But they are very expensive and not all team owners can afford them. Who would be expected to pay for these? This is one of those examples where just maybe the players should have been thinking about this during CBA negotiations instead of how to get more money in their pockets.

You are far more negative toward the WNBA than I am but I don't disagree with many of your points. I do have a different take on some of them. The statement that "not all team owners can afford them" if true certainly makes my point that one of the biggest issues is who the owners are. The WNBA needs to have better, more powerful, and richer owners. These people and corporations exist and the WNBA needs to be far better at marketing their product to those types of people.. There are reasons other than reaping financial rewards to entice buy in. Find them. Market them. The secret is good ownership. CBS bought the Yankees years ago and severely damaged the product. Along came George. Problem solved. He turned it into a money printing machine because he knew how to do that. This is what the WNBA needs. People with a vision and the resources to make it work. As much as I hate to admit it people like and buy into what the marketing geniuses make them believe.

As for the CBA they got what they wanted. Be careful what you want.

 

[UHF]

You don’t get big money from people in the stands - it comes from TV contracts. WCBB really took off once all these conferences started showing ALL the games - SEC Network, ACC Network, etc. I haven’t missed a SC game on either TV or ESPN + in about 8 years. The more it’s shown, the more people get to know the players, the more they go to games. It’s coming soon, but they haven’t gotten there quite yet.

TV coverage of WNBA Finals has been ahead of the curve for NBA Finals, with respect to the number of years after the WNBA and NBA were born.

It took 24 years before the entire NBA Finals were broadcast on national TV. How soon after the WNBA was born were the WNBA Finals broadcast on national TV?

2021 article "NBA Finals on the networks: A storied and often colorful history through the lens of television."

NBA Finals on the networks: A storied and often colorful history through the lens of television - Sports Broadcast Journal

 

[sun]

As much as I admire Evina, she wasn't even starting for UConn as the season wore on.
Considering that it's no wonder why she got waived.
If she were more of a consistent sharpshooter, then she would have had a better chance of making the cut.
She'll be better off if she can develop her talent in a foreign league and then try to hook up with a WNBA team in the future.
Even Doug Flutie had to play in Canada to make a name for himself and become successful.
And MLB is also very highly dependent on importing talent from foreign countries with 28.3% of 2021 opening day rosters composed of players born in foreign countries.
Considering that the US imports so many MLB players, then maybe exporting our women BB players makes up for it.